I also like to see this restart of bitmarket.eu as a chance to a) win the community back and b) get the users money back step by step, but of course as fast as possible. What I actually don't want, even if it might have sounded from my post before, is someone going to jail. Maver is surely a clever man and did a lot of programming / server maintainence and implementing new features demanded by us, so he on this side doesn't deserve the "scammer" tag. On the other side he did take monetary values which he didn't own and which were trusted to him. What is even with one blind eye, criminal. So now he's still a normal man with (hopefully) no entries in his certificate of conduct at the police, but as soon someone gets the lawyers moving he surely will be judged. The entry will be in his papers for lifetime, so he is marked as a bad guy for his whole life. No one can really be interested in making another persons life hell or play god in this matter. As I stated I don't know him, so I also don't know if he has a family, kids whatever. Any judicial meddling would have a heavy impact on himself and the people around him.

I don't know if many users comming back to bitmarket after the events happening, also no one can say how long the site will work out for everyone. Mr Albi, if you're sure about your work - go on please. The site was very usefull to a lot of people and will be more usefull still with more features. But the users need a sign that they've not lost everything. A debt to a bank of 200.000 or 300.000 Euro is insane to repay, it happens that someone's children are called to duty for their parents debts. But say 1/3 of all the needed money should come from Maver, some money from the investors if they wish and in the end all users will be repaid with say 40%/50% in the first month and the remains step by step. This is a much better deal for everyone than now 10% and 90% lost. So the users see they're not forgotten and there IS a businesplan to resolve over one or two years. And Maver sees he's also not forgotten and can receive help when he shows some risky initiative.

First I want to state clearly that this post is not meant for flaming but should give some more considerations about what's happening to bitmarket.eu. The deadline for the survey is comming close and I have to say: there's no real option to choose from.

What happened to me:
In early November 2012 someone bought my last bitcoins I had sold on bitmarket.eu. All seemed ok until the buyer didn't send money. Also to mails came no reaction and I thought of the buyer beeing a scammer. Finally one month after this the "deal" was cancelled on my behalf.

In December popped up a wonderful message from the owner of the website, stating something like "Dear users of bitmarket.eu, by chance I took all your bitcoins you trusted in my guidance, gambled a little bit with them and lost all. But don't worry, I'm still a very honest man and have a pure heart. Btw all the bitcoins are lost. I'm so sorry about your loss, but that's the way it is."

After reading this news a thought appeared in my mind. What if my buyer knew already, that he would not be able to transfer bitcoins out from his account and decided instead to not send money? So he saved money and I'm the one losing bitcoins. Actually this is only a guess, but rumors might have been around earlier and he might have had a glimpse on them. So his decission was wise and I claimed him a scammer undeserved.

So, what can I say to the "restoration plan"? Someone did his maths and posted the results here. With 0.4% fee and a turn-over of bitcoins like bitmarket.eu had last year it would take some hundreds or thousand years to regain that much bitcoins which were lost. So at best every user would wait some years to get full repayment, at worst the bitcoins have gone byebye forever. One or two investors offered help which is from my side very appreciated. But on second thought the investors spend their money on "a dead horse" so to speak, because if you take a look at the "bitcoins currently for sale"-chart you'll easily see that the amount of bitcoins sold dropped extremly compared to last year's sales. As I can 100% understand - noone trusts this website and it's owner anymore.

The options one by one
>I am willing to accept the current restoration plan<
The investors money will be evenly distributed amongst the users and every month will be some more payout IF there are any profits from the revived website. The money of the investors is to this day far less than would be needed to reimburse all users in a sufficient way. I guess the money would only cover 10% at best. The other 90% will come like 0,01% every year, so we're ready in 9000 years. I don't have that much time and I'm not willing to get back only 10% at all.

>I don't want to cooperate<
Liquidation plan blabla, 6% restored, rest lost forever. When I'm not willing to get only 10% back, I'm surely not willing to get even less than this.

>I want to join BitMarket.eu investors<
Sounds nice, invest some money to be part of bitmarket.eu. But wait! What's this? My money was stolen already, so how can I just say "ok, keep it and do as nothing had happened"? Even if there's written lifetime participation I'm not really impressed. There's no guarantee that this lifetime participation will endure more than some years and in the end when there's still no profit all my stolen bitcoins AND my invested money is lost. I don't want to constrain someone to not invest money as everybody can do with his money whatever he likes to. But I would advice at least a second thought, better a third one also if you're willing to invest money in someones busines who scammed you earlier. And if you really think about it, you need a death-proof businesplan how to invest, how much time you need and how much work you have to put in this project. If you don't have a businesplan like I outlined very roughly you can't be a serious businesman.

>I understand the plan but need Bitcoins quickly<
30% repaid at once, but the remaining 70% will be never paid back and cannot be demanded. This is not an option, because if I sign here I never have any claims under public law anymore. I forfeit all my bitcoins for the lousy payout of 30%.

>I want to donate my on hold balance to BitMarket.eu<
Nice, my money was taken away and I can confirm this here. Keep it, doesn't matter, all ok. The best option I've ever read.

>I will decide later/ I have another idea<
Decide later will not bring us users to a suitable end and so I think I have another option which wasn't discussed earlier. The owner of the website, namely Maver, who also took the bitcoins from the users for his own purpose (imagine he had earned let's say one million dollars with OUR bitcoins, ask youself just one question: would he have paid out the users with his profit or would he just have kept all for himself? I think not that anyone of us had ever seen a share of his earnings to be honest) can go to a bank in his country and apply for a loan. Any bank will gladly and with pleasure give money to someone and charge a standard interest rate in return. The loan he can use for paying his debts to all bitmarket users at once. Ok, maybe this sounds like I'm an inhuman monster or an asshole or something else, but I'm only thinking what would be best for all the users. What is better? 2000 people getting scammed and waiting for their bitcoins/money forever? Or one guy who already gambled other peoples money has to pay back a loan to a bank? He might pay ten years or twenty, but actually I don't care. We don't know each other in person, but did take my money. So why should I care what happens to him afterwards? Hardly spoken! If you take something from someone, it's called stealing where I come from. If you steal a lot from many different people it's either called politics or large-scale fraud. Maver can be lucky to "only" repay a debt to a bank in this solution. The other option would be jail. Fraud in this area (~150.000 Euro and more) will be punished with at least one year, but normally more, up to five years. To be sure what I'm writing here in this forum I already contacted my lawyer on this issue. My lawyer also gave me the advice to NOT invest any money to help bitmarket.eu, because IF I would invest money, I would be a part of the company by law. This means in short - if someone goes the long way over lawyers and judges I would be liable for payment of the debts. Easy wordings: Someone wins the process agains bitmarket.eu and Maver and all his investors will have to pay money in equal shares to the guy who won the process. And Maver and the investors would have to pay all fees, salaries and formalities. Investing means entering the boat. After investment you're sitting in the same boat and everybody inherits the open debts. It could be that someone invested out of an unfinished thought and suddenly stands against a bill of let's say 30.000 Euros or more. I don't want honest people to be mixed up with gangsters, so please think about what I said when you start investing in bitmarket.eu.

Finally I just want to state one more thing: The bitcoins have gone, so the owner of the site has to repay the bitcoins' worth with a fixed rate. He will not come from this situation without harm. When he decides to go the way to his bank and repay all users at once, then and only then he can start gaining reputation and honor again. If he's really trustworthy after repaying all users on his own cost people will show appreciation and help him out of the mess, me included. Respect will come slowly and it might be that he will have a hard debt to pay back his bank, but he surely will not be alone then. I don't see a point in giving him bitcoins and/or money beforehand though.

As I said I was talking to a lawyer already and if other people would be interested I'm willing to go the judicial way with them (class-action lawsuit). But hopefully this will not happen and another way without lawyers and judges will be found.   


   

As most of my forespeakers I just don't want to spam the newbie section. I'm reading here and there, but normally not commenting much. Now I need to comment on the bitmarket.eu thread until tomorrow when the questionaire finishes.

Hello, just a short question. I have more than four hours online time and some posts but still can't post anywhere else. What happened? Did the newbie restrictions change? Thank you for answer!

My name you can see on the left and I'm just doing this for getting posts. Like everybody else. 

"Trust no one" is just so - nonsense. You have to trust your doctor, your bank and the shop you buy your food. The doctor for his ability to cure you, the bank for not just taking your money and the food for not beeing poisoned. But you can of course keep an watchful eye on everybody.

Very good option to secure your wallet!

Hi,

you can also try the "show all"-option in your folder menu. Should do well, after that you'll see the wallet.dat.

Greets