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1  Economy / Economics / Re: On the Parallelity of Hayek's Denationalisation of Money & Nash's Ideal Money on: August 31, 2025, 07:01:24 PM
Bitcoin is the best Ideal money humanity has ever had.

How do we know if money is good or bad?

 First, we need to understand what money is for. Money was created because it was difficult for people to trade goods directly, The problem with barter systems is that it was not always easy to find someone who exactly had what you wanted and who also wanted exactly what you had to offer.

For example, if you produce potatoes and someone else produces meat, in order to trade, that person must want potatoes at that exact moment, and you must want meat. If you don’t want the same quantity or quality of goods, the trade becomes complicated.

That’s why money was created ,so they realized they needed a medium that could be used as a medium of exchange, a measure of value, and a store of value.

Throughout history, various items have been used as money, like stones, shells, whale teeth, and rai stones, then metals like gold, copper, and silver, later paper, and today digital money controlled by banks.

Throughout all these attempts, it became increasingly clear that money must have certain characteristics.For example, durability whatever we choose as money must be long-lasting, because if we chose a banana ,it would spoil quickly and lose its value, so it wouldn’t work as money,it wouldn’t be able to serve as a store of value.Divisibility is one of the important characteristics of money. Money must be able to be divided into smaller parts. Divisible forms of money allow transactions of all sizes and amounts.For example, with gold, divisibility was a problem, so people had to use silver and copper coins.Scarcity  Money needs to be rare enough to maintain its value. If there is too much of something, it loses value. That’s why materials like gold and silver, which are relatively scarce, have been used as money for a long time.Money must be easy to store and transfer, and easy to verify  these are characteristics that good money should have. Gold lacked some of these characteristics, which is why banks, paper money, and debt-based currencies appeared.

If you analyze it closely, there is no single physical object in the world that has all the characteristics of good money.The digital age has made it possible to create money that has all the necessary characteristics.

I see you follow the Saifedean school of pseudo-austrian-economic theory.  He fools people with weak intellects that think that money is intuitive and economic is garbage theory. We can reference this thread to which I thoroughly debunk Saife's lies and discordant citations of Mises and Hayek: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5555918.msg65709517#msg65709517

Quote
Money was created because...

That’s why money was created ,so they realized...
Money wasn't created in a "for purpose" fashion.  No economic literature makes that claim.  You are trying to cite Menger's Origins of Money which describes how it NATURALLY arose without such forethought. I get that it makes sense to YOU...but your intuition is wrong.

Quote
Throughout all these attempts, it became increasingly clear that money must have certain characteristics.
Yes this is what Saifedean claims and then he cites Mises over 50 times.  But Mises school of thought, again you won't understand this, REJECTS historical based arguments.  Because you can just cherrypick things that support your argument and ignore things that suggest that your argument is wrong.  Thats what Saife and you have done.

Quote
Divisibility is one of the important characteristics of money. Money must be able to be divided into smaller parts.

Right so consider for example if one "sat" one day equalled $100 dollars?  Then is bitcoin divisible enough?  Obviously not. Here you can see Saife saying any amount of divisibilty if sufficient is enough and then you can Hayek stuffing that retarded notion:



Quote
The digital age has made it possible to create money that has all the necessary characteristics.

Bitcoin lacks some important things.  Firstly it doesn't scale.  It can't be everyone's coffee money.  Its also not private and thus not fungible.  Also and you won't understand this because you know nothing about economics, you CAN'T serve an economy with a finitely supplied currency...anyone that has even BEGUN to study economics knows that would be a fallacy to think so:



REMEMBER: Saifedean CITES Hayek!!!

You have simply decided bitcoin is your king and therefore every property of is the best and perfect and any obvious misgiving pointed out of it is a crackpot theory to ignore.

Lastly I'd like to point out you came into a thread about Nash and Hayek's proposals and their significance and relevance to bitcoin and you ignored them, ignored the OP, and ignored the subject.

2  Economy / Economics / On the Parallelity of Hayek's Denationalisation of Money & Nash's Ideal Money on: August 31, 2025, 06:33:05 AM
In the main version of his proposal Ideal Money Nash states in a postscript that his proposal is concordant with Hayek's Denationalisation of Money:

Quote
...after consulting with some of the economics faculty at Princeton, I learned of the work and publications of Friedrich von Hayek. I must say that my thinking is apparently quite parallel to his thinking in relation to money and particularly with regard to the non-typical viewpoint in relation to the functions of the authorities which in recent times have been the sources of currencies (earlier “coinage”).)

I have a 15 part essay series that explains in great detail how these proposal align. The interesting thing is that Hayek's proposal relies on a theoretical device/currency he calls "the Ducat" while Nash relies on a theoretical device he calls an ICPI (Industrial Consumption Price Index)-basically a globally construstructed inflation target that all central banks would use to measure inflation.

In my works (https://github.com/jalToorey/IdealMoney/wiki) explaining how their proposals align and why they are relevant and significant to our times I show that each of their devices can be replaced with bitcoin as a basis.

This is a synthesis and thesis of bitcoin in which the conclusion or argument for it is radically different than the mainstream viewpoint championed by bitcoin enthusiasts/fanatics (they believe bitcoin will supplant all centrally banked currencies whereas my works suggests bitcoin will stabilize central banked currencies and end inflation). Instead of denouncing conventional economics it extend it.

Hayek's Denationalisation of Money: https://cdn.mises.org/Denationalisation%20of%20Money%20The%20Argument%20Refined_5.pdf

Ideal Money by John Nash: https://web.math.princeton.edu/jfnj/texts_and_graphics/Main.Content/IDEAL_MONEY.../Older/PENN_STATE/babu.money.b.pdf


Hayek's Ducat:

Quote
I would announce the issue of non-interest bearing certificates or notes, and the readiness to open current cheque accounts, in terms of a unit with a distinct registered trade name such as 'ducat'. The only legal obligation I would assume would be to redeem these notes and deposits on demand with, at the option of the holder, either 5 Swiss francs or 5 D-marks or 2 dollars per ducat. This redemption value would however be intended only as a floor below which the value of the unit could not fall because I would announce at the same time my intention to regulate the quantity of the ducats so as to keep their (precisely defined) purchasing power as nearly as possible constant

I would announce that I proposed from time to time to state the precise commodity equivalent in terms of which I intended to keep the value of the ducat constant, but that I reserved the right, after announcement, to alter the composition of the commodity standard as [46] experience and the revealed preferences of the public suggested

It seems to me to be fairly certain that:

(a) a money generally expected to preserve its purchasing power approximately constant would be in continuous demand so long as the people were free to use it

(b) with such a continuing demand depending on success in keeping the value of the currency constant one could trust the issuing hanks to make every effort to achieve this better than would any monopolist who runs no risk by depreciating his money

(c) the issuing institution could achieve this result by regulating the quantity of its issue

(d) such a regulation of the quantity of each currency would constitute the best of all practicable methods of regulating the quantity of media of exchange for all possible purposes.

Nash's ICPI:

Quote
A possible non-political basis for a value standard which could be used for money would be a good "ICPI" statistic where this acronym refers to "industrial consumption price index". That could be calculated from the international prices of commodities, such as copper, silver, tungsten, etc. that are used in industrial activities.

We can see that times could change, especially if a "miracle energy source" were found, and thus if a good ICPI index is constructed it should not be expected to be valid, as initially defined, into all eternity. It would instead be appropriate for it to be regularly readjusted depending on how the patterns of international trade would actually evolve.

Here, evidently, politicians in control of the authority behind standards COULD corrupt the continuity of a good standard, but depending on how things were fundamentally arranged, the probabilities of serious damage through "political corruption" might become as small as the probabilities that the values of the standard meter and kilogram will be corrupted through the actions of politicians.
3  Economy / Economics / Re: Benefits of a competitive economy. on: August 19, 2025, 07:13:20 PM
Tariffs are clearly a tool for competition between nations.  Crying against them is socialism. ldo.
4  Economy / Economics / Of The Fatal Inconsistencies In Saifedean Ammous' Bitcoin Standard on: August 19, 2025, 08:02:46 AM

Saifedean's arguments are inconsistent with his sources.  I go over the examples of this in extensive detail.  One of the key points comes from the previous essay(this one is the 2nd in my 15 part series that explains the Nashian Orientation of Bitcoin as well as its parallel's to Hayek's Denationalization of Money) which is on Mises Regression theorem.  Simply put Mises system of economic philosophy rejects empirical based arguments...Saifedean, as a purported Austrian economics professor, cites Mises over 50 times and gives a near purely empirical based argument:

Quote from: Mises
Praxeology is a theoretical and systematic, not a historical, science. Its scope is human action as such, irrespective of all environmental, accidental, and individual circumstances of the concrete acts. Its cognition is purely formal and general without reference to the material content and the particular features of the actual case. It aims at knowledge valid for all instances in which the conditions exactly correspond to those implied in its assumptions and inferences. Its statements and propositions are not derived from experience. They are, like those of logic and mathematics, a priori. They are not subject to verification or falsification on the ground of experience and facts. They are both logically and temporally antecedent to any comprehension of historical facts. They are a necessary requirement of any intellectual grasp of historical events. Without them we should not be able to see in the course of events anything else than kaleidoscopic change and chaotic muddle.

The theorems attained by correct praxeological reasoning are not only perfectly certain and incontestable, like the correct mathematical theorems. They refer, moreover with the full rigidity of their apodictic certainty and incontestability to the reality of action as it appears in life and history. Praxeology conveys exact and precise knowledge of real things.

Summary:

Quote from: Jal Toorey
In this essay I use the perspective and intention of Szabonian deconstruction, as well as our insights from doing the same with Mises Regression theorem, to highlight Saifedean Ammous’ nefarious use and wrapping of academic scholars work notably including Mises, Hayek, and Nash as well as implicitly Szabo and Satoshi.

Further I highlight that Saifedean's account of how money originated and how moneyness originates in objects is based on an anthropologically inconsistent argument with reference to Jo Walton, “The analogy between Bitcoin and Yapese stone money is based on proposed commonalities that are inaccurate, ill-defined, and/or trivial.“

This essay then gives an example of how nefarious constructions can be ‘un-wrapped’ using Szabonian Deconstruction (properly framed inquiries) and it lays the beginning of my attempt to usefully frame an inquiry into the historical and cultural evolution of objects humanity has used as money as AND money-LIKE things (ie such proto-money, credit, wealth storage etc.).

Youtube (I read the essay aloud): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyj25tQYJck&list=PL_VzRSPfA1fvllWWum1lU-EqBXt1kCqSk

Text: https://github.com/jalToorey/IdealMoney/wiki/Of-The-Fatal-Inconsistencies-In-Saifedean-Ammous'-Bitcoin-Standard

I realize its an hour video and a long essay so I'm quite willing to directly discuss and intro people in dialogue in this thread.

5  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Removing OP_return limits seems like a huge mistake on: May 05, 2025, 03:39:56 PM
The reason these debates aren't real, aren't sincere, and are full of vitriol and silliness is because everyone is trying to avoid the question: Whats bitcoin's optimal use case?

Whats the goal gents? What are we trying to do here? 

Ur conman talking about a means...to an undefined ends.  Because defining the ends defines the means. 

Thus the bitcoin community is a sybil attack.  Let me in the dialogue...I'll show you the conmen.

[spoil][/spoil]


6  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Article from Coindesk. Are Bitcoin Developers Losing Faith in Lightning? on: April 08, 2024, 08:17:26 PM


@franky1 is a conman as well.

sick of ur guys's lies. 


7  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satoshis new emails have a smoking gun for nashs work in re 21 million supply on: March 02, 2024, 08:04:59 AM
Before any gets to say what I posted is bullshit MAKE THEM EXPLAIN WHAT I POSTED!!!!

FRANKY YOU LIAR!!!!
8  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Satoshis new emails have a smoking gun for nashs work in re 21 million supply on: March 02, 2024, 07:30:52 AM
https://twitter.com/CoinControversy/status/1763827124715098510




9  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / On the Tools/Metaphors Necessary To Properly Traverse Hayek’s Denationalization on: February 08, 2024, 07:45:40 PM
The biggest problem Satoshi had to address was the problem of sybil attack.  But socially you can't stop the ever creation of fake identities to look like a view is supported

Hayek's work has been hijacked by nefarious people most notably including Saifedean.  Many bitcoin are at least vaguely away of Hayek's work. What they don't know is Hayek's work ABSOLUTELY flies in the face of Saifedean's bitcoin standard orientation of bitcoin.

Hayek warns against people like Saifedean selling destructive policy and ideas to people.

The bitcoin maximalist view also wrap's satoshi's perspective in a lie.  If satoshi was a fan of Hayek then he meant to FIX inflation not be the originator of the cause of GLOBAL HYPERINFLATION.

I show this very well in my works and I show that the views that quickly jump online to counter mine.  Are unfounded, they won't cite Hayek, they will only TELL you about Hayek.  And thus part of a greater sybil attack on the communities intelligence.

Thus I offer a few tools for traversing Hayek that will allow the community to understand and highlight this nefarious wrapping of Satoshi and Hayek so the myth and ignorance can be lifted.

https://github.com/jalToorey/IdealMoney/wiki/On-the-Tools-and-Metaphors-Necessary-To-Properly-Traverse-Hayek%E2%80%99s-Denationalization-of-Money-In-the-Face-and-Light-of-Bitcoin

I'm still finishing a part 2 and 3 etc.  But this link here is super damning.
10  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Bitcoin Community is a Sybil Attack On Bitcoin on: February 05, 2024, 05:17:22 PM
Quote
Insert Quote
your citation has nothing to do with sybil attack nor bitcoin
Thats an absolute lie

Swan Bitcoin has absolutely no business being used as a citation for the Cantillon effect. what are you talking about? 

And you also explained the Cantillon effect wrong like they did?

Whats going on franky!?

https://github.com/jalToorey/IdealMoney/wiki/On-Cantillon-and-the-Szabonian-Deconstruction-of-the-Cantillon-Effect
11  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Bitcoin Community is a Sybil Attack On Bitcoin on: February 04, 2024, 07:07:55 PM
and thats how you stop a social sybil.. by recognising it happening quick and telling the idiot he is wasting his time

The one account sybil attack hey franky? do you think this community doesn't understand the definition of sybil attack? thats weird.

I'm in the middle of pulling out the inconsistencies in the prominent bitcoiners arguments and I mean to explain Cantillon's work properly... consider this wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Cantillon#cite_note-65
Quote
Cantillon suggested that inflation occurs gradually and that the new supply of money has a localised effect on inflation, effectively originating the concept of non-neutral money.[62] Furthermore, he posited that the original recipients of new money enjoy higher standards of living at the expense of later recipients.[63] The concept of relative inflation, or a disproportionate rise in prices among different goods in an economy, is now known as the Cantillon Effect.[64][65]

Here's a question I ask you in front of the community franky.  Does citation 65 make sense to you that its a link to this: https://www.swanbitcoin.com/cantillon-effect/

Would you like to learn your monetary theory from swan bitcoin money scammers?  Answer to the community.
12  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Bitcoin Community is a Sybil Attack On Bitcoin on: February 04, 2024, 04:34:44 PM
for those that dont know traincarwreck. ill translate

nashy nash, nash, Nash!...Nash?

Odd, I got blah, blah, blah, blah, blah when I ran it though my translator.

What's funny is that it's posted on github so you can open issues on it, but I don't want to use my main git account and am too lazy to crate another one just to do it.

Either way, does not matter, it's just junk.

-Dave

i just meant OP posts something about bitcoin and then starts making it about a guy named Nash he idolises

did you know saifedean's argument is invalid from an archeological stand point?

did you know he misquote szabo?

did you know all attempts to evolve bitcoin misrepresent szabo, finney, and satoshi?

Did you know that islam banned saifedean's ?

Did you know that him and lyn alden run the planB account?

no you don't care about truth right.  you don't care about bitcoin frank.

You are in mom's basement frank.



That's a strange title and misguiding one, if the Bitcoin community is a Sybil Attack on Bitcoin then why Bitcoin exist in first place? Bitcoin is Bitcoin because of the community and support it's getting from the community. Without the community and users Bitcoin can't really be a useful thing at all, so it's better to not use such misleading title.

I know that Sybil attacks are of a concern but considering whole community as sybil attack is not right at all. I know that sybil attack is a concern and it was a concern back then also but it's not fair to consider the whole community as sybil attack on Bitcoin.
Its the nature of what a Sybil attack is.

Bitcoin only has Sybil protection on a computer network level.  On a social level its completely hijacked. Look at frank for example, he can't even think past 2

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
13  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / The Bitcoin Community is a Sybil Attack On Bitcoin on: February 04, 2024, 06:52:12 AM
The most popular bitcoin characters are sybil attacking bitcoin https://github.com/jalToorey/IdealMoney/wiki/The-Bitcoin-Community-is-a-Sybil-Attack-On-Bitcoin

planb is saifedean + lyn alden + swan

saifedeans arguments fly against archeological accounts and his method of argument goes against the core tenants of the Austrian school of economics he claims to represent: https://github.com/jalToorey/IdealMoney/wiki/Of-The-Fatal-Inconsistencies-In-Saifedean-Ammous'-Bitcoin-Standard

We use Szabonian deconstruction to show that the community around bitcoin is a Sybil attack intent on corrupting the key components of its design that both Satoshi and Szabo expound on. 

And then we show that Satoshi, Hal Finney, Szabo, and Nash all had the same arguments about what bitcoin's optimal use case is: https://github.com/jalToorey/IdealMoney/wiki/On-The-Satoshi-Complex

14  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Can't get armory online on: October 24, 2018, 02:47:22 AM
ah thank you!
15  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Can't get armory online on: October 12, 2018, 04:18:22 AM
Tried again and my hard drive filled up before I got the whole BC Dl'd.  I transferred to an external drive and when I open bitcoin core it read the BC data just fine and fully sync's.  

I am on ububntu and I reinstalled the .96.4 gcc 4.7 version https://btcarmory.com/0.96.4-release/

When I open armory the logs says it can find the data from the dir on the local disk.  I couldn't get any links I found to work...how do I point it to my external drive.

thx!
16  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Can't get armory online on: July 19, 2018, 07:49:18 PM
no i haven't. I will do it.  I think though I can sort of believe my balance though right?  I only had transactions from a few years ago and they seem to be showing up. 

The only way to know for sure is to check your balances against the current longest chain.
Thank you!
17  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Can't get armory online on: July 18, 2018, 03:24:49 PM
Your chain data is borked. Have you tried deleting Armory's database folder yet?
no i haven't. I will do it.  I think though I can sort of believe my balance though right?  I only had transactions from a few years ago and they seem to be showing up. 
18  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Can't get armory online on: July 18, 2018, 01:10:12 PM


When it does so, check that you have the "Connected" message in green in the bottom right corner... the number of blocks should be greater than the current block height of 531,939.
My balance and transaction history finally showed up, the "parsing tx hashes never went away.  Interesting think the blocks in the bottom right was still at 3xx,xxx.

Anyways I just wanted to see the balance so I guess I got it going? 

Cheers thx for the help happy I could make it work!
19  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Can't get armory online on: July 17, 2018, 06:44:41 PM
Hmmm left it for a day and a half after restarting since it seem to freeze on "parsing transaction hashes or something"  It seemed to get further but I think its stuck again.  I don't want to disturb it so i screenshotted with my phone the end of the log as the rest seems normal (other log was the same as before with nothing else different but new timestamps:

20  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Can't get armory online on: July 15, 2018, 12:52:43 PM
Dashboard says armorey is online. Bottom right corner says offline in red and 366869 blocks. Armory is online and orgazing block chain graphics are an orange bevelled square moving left and right. Scan tx history just has very small orange piece on it's left.

Last few entries is dblog...

Verifying tx filters
Done checking tx filters
Enabling zero conf tracking
RPC connection established

Nothing added to armory log since previous post about it. It didn't change over night. I tthink I  only have 2g of ram and 7gbs of HD space left BTW.

Edit:  tried to add my old wallet and it seemed to freeze. Rebooted and restarted armory. Its building databases seems to be advancing.

Edit2:I think I have 8 GB of ram
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