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1  Economy / Digital goods / Re: [WTS] $100 Amazon Giftcard on: August 16, 2016, 10:37:16 AM
what discount you are offering for this?
2  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] xCash : First Coin Feat. 100% Stealth Anon - NEW xChange P2P OTC on: May 06, 2015, 05:21:32 PM
Just wanted to give a status update.

I have been busy with work lately, so I have not had a chance to update anything as of yet.  I apologize, and don't want to make any promises or deadlines, but I can say that I have not forgotten this project and will be working on it as soon as I can.

Since I am creating an engine from scratch though, I'm not going to be able to easily give this to an exchange anytime soon, this is going to be a very long term project.  I would like to discuss some of the ideas with you all though as I work on this.

To recap:

I will be using C++ and probably the Boost Libraries for networking support as my dependencies, same as every other bitcoin client.  I will be using an HTML/CSS Interface for the UI so it will easily work on all operating systems and browsers and allow for customizable design and other nifty features.

The major difference will be an attempt to write code that is easily understandable and easy to work with, and who better to consult this with then the people here on the forum as I write the code.  I also plan to use SQLite for the database (although slower to query records its much easier to understand and better documented in my opinion).  Also, it won't be as bad since I plan to have a limited ledger that won't grow to ridiculous sizes as time goes on.  As such this will be a public work in progress.

I have not decided on Proof of Work or Proof of Stake, or something like Proof of Resource, but I'm open to suggestions.  My hope is that the energy used in proving the block can be used for something useful instead of just burning electricity, or if I can at least minimize it as is the case with proof of stake.

My only concern is copy cats running away with the code and creating a clone coin which would undermine my efforts.  Any suggestions to protect the source code while we work on this?
3  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] xCash : First Coin Feat. 100% Stealth Anon - NEW xChange P2P OTC on: April 17, 2015, 11:07:20 AM
Update::

I've been busy with my business this week.  I will be down for 2 weeks while I take care of business emergencies, I will update once I'm done.  Need to pay the bills Sad.

I'm still working on this and will give a more serious update as soon as I can.  I'm aiming for end of April at this point.  This is going to be a very long term project.

I do know that I've decided to use C++ and go with a browser UI & SqLite for now, just need to put together a little demo starter app ASAP and then finish my diagrams/plan.
4  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] xCash : First Coin Feat. 100% Stealth Anon - NEW xChange P2P OTC on: March 31, 2015, 07:20:23 AM
It's not a bug, its about understanding the codebase in a way that makes sense.  The xCash codebase is organized like spaghetti code with a mishmash of different solutions that were coded for problems, ESPECIALLY in regards to the database.  There is 2 separate databases to track currency value when really there should be only 1. One uses BerklyDB the other LevelDB, 2 separate hash table database engines.  BerklyDB was the original, and LevelDB was supposed to better faster, but had problems on Mac with corruption etc...  So the programmers who did this initially half finished the conversion of the code for BerklyDB and left the other half LevelDB, leaving a huge mess to clean up.

So doing it the way I proposed will be less prone to errors and more secure long term.  Hope this clears some things up.

Note::

My solution is going to use an SQL table, which is slower if the ledger kept growing... HOWEVER... since I plan to have a limited ledger it will wind up being faster overall long-term and easier to maintain and understand.  Probably will use SQLite.
5  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] xCash : First Coin Feat. 100% Stealth Anon - NEW xChange P2P OTC on: March 26, 2015, 02:28:55 AM
I apologize, I got held up with work to pay the bills Sad, so its hard to get on here, but I'm still interested in this coin or the new version of it anyways.

There are a few things that are going to need to be made clear in regards to the current xCash holders.  Integrating the old coin value into the new coin I plan on attempting will be difficult if I attempt to do it directly.  By directly I mean, add into the code special conditions to look at the existing xCash online database and transfer etc...  Therefore, we'll have to come to some community assessment for how we plan to transfer xCash holders to the new coin.  I do have a few ideas for how it could be done.

Since the amount of major xCash holders is so small this should not be too difficult to do.

Possible Ideas

1.) We put the xCash funds into an address online that is public and visible for xCash holders currently.  I can then hardcode an equivalent amount of currency to preexisting addresses in the blockchain of the new coin I create.  As long as this is public knowledge which funds are going to what addresses and we are open about that here I think it will be okay for the coin just starting out.

Pros
  • Very easy to transfer funds
  • Proof you will receive funds within the blockchain of the new coin

Cons
  • Requires trust that I will integrate into the new coin

This is the first idea I have so far, I'll put more as I think of them, but I want to do something to reward the current holders of xCash and transfer them over as best as possible.

6  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] xCash : First Coin Feat. 100% Stealth Anon - NEW xChange P2P OTC on: March 08, 2015, 02:47:49 PM
I think there is no way around it, I'll need to use BOOST for the socket library since its cross platform and seems to be the most reliable, which I suppose I don't have any problems with, its working right now for just about every implementation of bitcoin.

However, I still need to find a cross platform launcher which will load the browser up.  I'm thinking I can use a system console type command to attempt to launch the default browser to 127.0.0.1:31337 (or some port we decide on).  Then the software app will look for local html/css files to handle GUI & AJAX to update in realtime.

I'll see if I can put together a demo.

After I figure this out, I'm done on programming until more planning.  In particular, my focus will be a strategy to handle the fixed ledger, large transaction volume & the marketplace.
7  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] xCash : First Coin Feat. 100% Stealth Anon - NEW xChange P2P OTC on: March 07, 2015, 06:02:46 PM
Status Update::

Planning Stage --

1.) Choosing the development language.

I was doing some more research into cross platform languages.  The more I thought about it, the more a mistake it would be to select a language from a company that might go under in the future despite how good it might be.  For that reason the language of choice needed to be C++.

So I'm looking into all the C++ compilers that are out there right now that are NOT Qt.  My gripe with QT that I mentioned in previous posts is their lack of true Mac Os X Support and how difficult the compile process will get in the future (as I experienced already).  Yes it will compile now, but will the source suddenly break when Apple comes out with a new O.S design? So compile stability is a MUST.

I'm only going to use these libraries for their GUI elements & 'maybe' there threading/socket interfaces after some research if they seem stable and well-written.  

I'm open to suggestions.  Key to my design strategy is as 'few' libraries as possible to reduce dependency problems and make it easy for new users to compile.

List of C++ GUI Alternatives

wxWidgets http://wxwidgets.org/
GTK+
FLTK
FOX
Ultimate++
JUCE

I got this list from http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6559099/alternatives-to-qt

Currently investigating wxWidgets...

If anyone has other suggestions let me know.

EDIT

It has come to my attention that web browsers are a cross platform GUI.  In fact the ultimate one since it could be customized however you like and would be perfect for the market place.  Not to mention it won't break with new updates!!

That said, I have experience in talking back and forth between the C++ application and the web browser and making sure it is completely CORS supported.  (Without CORS support it will not allow connections to localhost).  GAIA coin does something similar, and I added support a long time ago in my past work with Cloak.

To pull this off the only library I would need is a good 'socket' and 'thread' library (I'll use BOOST if necessary, that is what bitcoin uses right now) now & an easier way to load up the browser, unless everyone is okay starting the app seeing no GUI and then going to 127.0.0.1 in their browser...which I'll do I suppose for now.
8  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] xCash : First Coin Feat. 100% Stealth Anon - NEW xChange P2P OTC on: March 02, 2015, 03:00:55 AM
Just wanted to update on my situation.  I'm still coding some loose ends for my business, but none the less I'm going to start working on the plan for this new code base.  My goal is simplicity while still being secure.  I'm not sure when I'll get done with the diagrams but as I go from topic to topic involving how to put this together I'll post here.  There should be at least some kind of weekly activity from me at this point.  Expect just diagrams and planning this month.
9  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] xCash : First Coin Feat. 100% Stealth Anon - NEW xChange P2P OTC on: February 08, 2015, 10:59:21 PM
Sorry its hard for me to respond on here daily because I've been busy with my project/business this month, but I do intend to move forward like I said around March when things calm down.  As I said earlier I don't want to commit to something until I'm 100% ready, and that will be march where I'll be giving weekly updates of progress.

Anyone who is interested in developing this new coin with me from scratch please PM me.  I will need all the objective/advice/help I can get as I put together the plan.  This is a long term project.  I'll be able to estimate a timeline to it once I finish the diagram/plan.

lab rat hoax -->
I won't finish OneMarket at cloak for the same reason I can't do it on xCash right now, the code base is flawed in my opinion for what is necessary long term (for xMarket anyways and the ledger issue).
10  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] xCash : First Coin Feat. 100% Stealth Anon - NEW xChange P2P OTC on: January 28, 2015, 09:03:08 PM
2 reasons,

1.) I first need to make the plan and diagram it all out and post it here to get thoughts, this will take me some time to create.  The plan would include technical diagrams of how I plan to handle the security, which block chain method to use (proof of work, stake or something else entirely), things of this nature.

2.) The other reason is for personal reasons related to a business I'm running which currently pays the bills.  I plan to be done with the software side of my business by near the end of February at which point I will have a lot of time to work full-time on this coin.  I'm actually excited to be coding a new coin from scratch to do this.  Should be interesting Smiley, but I don't want to promise something unless I can actually start to deliver, so that is why I'm saying March.
11  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] xCash : First Coin Feat. 100% Stealth Anon - NEW xChange P2P OTC on: January 27, 2015, 11:45:08 PM
I had written a large post that was deleted through some bad luck, but I’m going to sum up the development plans I have for this coin moving forward.  It may sound like a rant in parts, but I tried to keep it factual.

My goal is to create a new coin base that will carry over existing xCash into it that will be designed specifically with the xMarket, xJury & Long-Term in mind.

My reasons are below:

A. Minor Problems #1: Cross platform compilation (QT & Awkward Dependencies + Mac)

QT is the development language for most bitcoin clients.  It was chosen because at the time it could cross compile effectively was (more or less) free and could work and compile with languages like C++.  This was back in 2008.  Having now all three different development environments (windows, mac, & linux), I can safely say that compiling for Mac is a complete nightmare and in the future may not even work at all.  As mac updated its O.S, so did the locations of all its graphics for its UI, and so if you try to compile on a newer mac O.S you quickly run into errors because the graphics do not match up.  Not to mention newer macs are using the Clang (c-language) compiler created by Apple.  It's a superior compiler in my opinion in that it does not allow you to code in ways that were acceptable before in previous C++ code in favor of more organized and streamlined code.  One such example is creating a #Define to create an infinite loop like so;  #define loop For( ; ; ; ).  This was acceptable to the GCC 4.2 Compiler back in 2008, but changes have been made that make this unacceptable practice now even for the newest GCC compiler 4.9.2.

Because QT has failed to keep their editor up to date with Mac, you have to use an old version of the Mac O.S developed around 2008, Mac OS 10.6.8 to be exact.  So to compile on mac to give you an idea, I have to use Virtual Box (a free emulator) to install from disc a copy of Mac Os 10.6.8 that I was lucky to have laying around because it will only work if you have the real disc or server edition (despite said hacks online claiming otherwise).  Parallels won't work either due to copyright rules with 10.6.8 when you try to use it.  Solutions online fail to work.  So you are stuck with a crappy emulator that freezes anytime a sound is made, but it can get the job done.  I installed an old version QT ( 4.8 ) and used macports to install all the dependencies.  To compile you have to first have QT make the 'makefile' from its own makefile.  Yes a little redundant...,  but anyways... after you have the 'new real make file', you can use that with terminal (the mac equivalent of the DOs prompt).  You simply run the command 'make' with the parameter for the makefile and it will use the correct compiler and visual resources to construct the application without any bugs or errors compiling.

Since I'm stuck in virtual box, I can't copy the files out, so I have to create a dropbox account on my main machine and the virtual one to sync the files together and I wrote a terminal shell script to make the compilation process simple.  Part of that on mac includes telling the application where to look for it's dependencies with the install_name_tool command which can be a huge pain in the butt.

Anyways, after all that and ages to compile you can test something as simple as a small graphical change or bug you might want to console out...

Ridiculous! Absurd! This is not how development is supposed to be.  Yes I could go on windows or linux and test easier, but its important to be able to test on the actual live dev machines, especially for other programmers who may wants to get involved, if all they have is a mac development machine they are really out of luck unless they go through a lot of unnecessary trouble like I did to compile.

So while I can still work on xCash in it's current code base, testing is very time consuming and unnecessarily tedious for cross compile testing which in my opinion is extremely important.

B. Minor Problem #2: Database Madness (LevelDB & Berkley DB Fiasco)

The current code base is what I would call spaghetti code.  Using an implementation of Proof of Stake which it (itself) was based on the original bitcoin source the source became a mishmash of code from the original bitcoin and new source code.  One of those obvious changes was in the partial re-code from BerklyDB to LevelDB.  LevelDB is supposed to be an easier superior database system to BerkelyDB, but what the developers did not expect is that because of the way Mac compilers interpret the LevelDB code, there are unexpected crashes that can occur on the Mac & without warning.  On Mac OS X, LevelDB can become corrupt and fail to re-open the database (http://hackingdistributed.com/2013/11/27/bitcoin-leveldb/).

So I'm stuck with code (transactions) done in levelDB and the rest (the block chain) done with berklyDB...

First, these database engines were meant to be simple look up tables for hashes and therefore do not work with SQL (Server Query Language), making it faster for looking up results.  I normally might not care about that, but since I plan to create the xMarket and I want it to be simple for new programmers to understand and to look up results, an SQL database would be superior.  I think something like SQLite would be fine.  I will cover why speed will not be important in my opinion for the database on point D.

C. Minor Problem #3: Lack of Documentation

Documentation is not existent for this source.  The documentation that exists for bitcoin is for their newer code base and is very different now from the code base xCash uses, which is based on the Proof of Stake protocol version of the bitcoin source before those changes were implemented.  Therefore the documentation is mostly useless to me in trying to figure out how the source was organized.

So while I'm aware there is a nice class structure created that I can use to help me write to the 'database' tables and do 'sort of' what I need to do, I can't tell how to use it correctly without huge time wasting trial and error struggling episodes.

D. Major Problem #1: Long Term Stability, (Long Ledgers & Sync times)

One of the major problems of most Crypto Coin clients is the ability to be able to let users sync quickly.  This is because the ledgers which hold the transaction history and ultimately balances gets way out of hand as time goes on.  To me this is huge issue.  Even if I make the market, eventually the system would implode on its self and become impractical for new users to get involved as it takes hours sometimes days to sync.

To me that is a deal breaker for the xMarket on the current codebase moving forward.

E. Major Problem #2: Ledger types required for xMarket & xJury.

Bitcoin stores transaction history every-time the money shifts from one address to another.  It was meant to simply store this kind of information, but what I need for xMarket is a new type of transaction, one that works on an IF conditions basis.

Something like IF Alice -> (sends) 50 xCash to BOB THEN (do something here) etc...

This 'might' be possible in the current setup from talking with another dev on the team, but without the documentation I'm shooting in the dark and seeing how messed up the rest of the code is I'm afraid to even chance that it might be possible.

::Proposed Solutions::

A.

To make development easier I propose developing the source code in the stable language Xojo which easily cross compiles for Mac, Windows & Linux using its interpretation language.  This is essentially a language to convert into another language for you so that way it can cross compile easily.

I like XOJO (which used to be called Realbasic) and have really seen it make a name for itself in the industry.  While not free to use, it is free to test, so people can easily see the source code and test it, and if they wanted to actually compile they would need the paid license.  To me the company is much more reliable than QT.  One of the problems or questions that may arise with Xojo is (it's too weak a language to handle bitcoin).  I'd argue that is not the case.  Anything you need to do that is speed dependent such as the Crypto functions can be put in a plugin that can be carefully coded to be cross platform reliable in C++)

And if you want to compile you simple load the source, no matter what machine you are on or how old and it will just 'work', even for novice programmers.  No dependencies to download or any other B.S you normally go through when you first start learning about compiling crypto coins.

This will make it much easier to develop and quickly test in all environments as well as for new coders to get involved.  Also XOJO compiles to iPhone and soon Android, which means that the client would easily carry over to these devices as well.

B.

The database that comes included with XOJO uses SQLite, which is perfect for storing records. While taking up more space I do not believe this will be an issue because of my proposed solution to point D

C.

The software will be documented every function and step of the way so it will be easy for even novice programmers to get started adding additions to the currency.

D.

To prevent ledgers from getting out of control I propose a fixed ledger and history (say maybe 1000 or 10000 blocks).  Currently bitcoin knows your currency by looking at every step the currency has ever taken from address to address to finally arrive at a balance.  In my opinion the long history is not needed, you only need enough history to prove it sufficiently true.  If your balance was 10000 xCash 500 blocks ago, it most likely really is 500 xCash, its very hard to fake that many blocks.  So by storing simply the account balances and a decent amount of history the network is still very much secured without the huge overhead required of storing every last bit of history.

By doing it this way, the need for a super fast database structure like BerklyDB or LevelDB drops in value, since SQLite will be fast enough with smaller databases with the great added benefit of being able to use SQL to query records making it easy for new & novice coders to understand and read the database and make software tools for example to scan through the database and read listings, see where money is going etc...

E.

Since I am in control of the source, I can ensure the proper structure is in place for storing in the ledger IF (based transactions) which will be honored by all clients in much the same way current transactions are.

There has only been a  few programmers who have attempted to re-code the base from scratch (since its a time consuming and long task) but I think this is a necessary move to create a unified market and crypto currency and for longevity and that I will actually save more time long-term by doing this and actually help the community.

I can also set this up with a time period that existing xCash holders can buy into the new coin base.  This is a long term project and I plan to get started in mid March if the community and team likes the development direction.


12  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] xCash : First Coin Feat. 100% Stealth Anon - NEW xChange P2P OTC on: January 23, 2015, 08:00:43 PM
Unfortunately I do not have a copy of the post and it took a while to write that, if anyone has a copy let me know, I will see if I can post something again this time writing to Google Drive first to ensure I don't lose what I write.  It appears a lot of people lost their posts recently.
13  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] xCash : First Coin Feat. 100% Stealth Anon - NEW xChange P2P OTC on: December 13, 2014, 01:33:01 AM
I know it has been a while, but I'm here with an update!

I got my dev machine fully working now for compiling mac builds.  As such since I'm in charge of xMarket I got started on the UI.

Here is some screenshots

http://imgur.com/a/bOa5e



This is a very very basic UI to test the marketplace.  More features will be added later based on performance tests.
14  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCASH] First Coin Feat. 100% Stealth Anon - NEW xChange P2P OTC on: November 15, 2014, 07:59:25 AM
Hi everyone,

Was having some difficulty compiling the application on the new O.S I was on, but with some help from a third party dev I was able to compile a version of the application now for mac, meaning I'll be working on xCash now!  Excited to be part of the xCash team.

- X11Joe
15  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA on: August 09, 2014, 01:26:27 AM
wallet is super even got onemarket on it   Grin

can i use the onemarket rite now?

only UI for OneMarket is there, when version 2 of PoSA comes out, OneMarket will be ready to be worked on.  Block escrow is a requirement moving forward.
16  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA on: August 03, 2014, 12:09:23 AM

Just want to note that was not supposed to be posted here, as its a 'highly simplified' unofficial explanation of how the system works for people just getting in.  The white-paper will better explain it once final draft of that is ready with all the technical details.
17  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA on: August 01, 2014, 01:32:37 AM
WTF so the only thing I can see is Alty sends the coin to POSA #1 node, the POSA#1 node sends the coin to Joe and then Joe finds a Posa #2 node...then the Posa #2 sends the coin BACK to Joe???

what the hell is the point of that and how is it anonymous?

We're going to make another diagram to explain this better with visuals.  The key is things are being sent to temporary addresses.  I'll come up with something better soon.

Think of it like this.

You -> PosA Node #1 -> Receiver (temp address) -> PoSA Node #2 -> Actual Receiver Address

PoSa Node #1 and #2 knows its safe to send to the Receiver temp address because of block escrow, a new transaction in the blockchain that is verified by all peers just like how normal transactions are.

It's ANON because PoSA Node #2 uses different 'cloak' then what he received to send money to you breaking the trace.

You could think of it like this.

Bob has $50, wants to send $50 to alice.  All his dollars are tainted with the letter B.  If you send the money to alice you can see the B's and you know it's from Bob.

If the money from PoSA Node#2 came from someone else (different traces) and was sent to the receiver it's Anon.  Essentially Alice see's money with different letters on it, say C or something.

This is what is happening in the final steps, this does require that the PoSA Nodes actually have the money to send so balance checks would be in place.
18  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA on: July 30, 2014, 06:11:37 PM
   

    (10:45:32) x11joe: Hey guys I'm getting some sleep, but just wanted to update that I did a confirmed working test Of connecting to the cloak client via mobile via the browser.  This is huge as it allows API access to cloak now for developers as well as the ability to create your own themes for handling cloak, P2P websites that you can share with other members using data from your cloak if you wanted (all protected via IP address & username/password selections).  Works
    (10:45:33) x11joe: AJAX live on browser.  This is confirmed WORKING! I'm getting test members to get video later.
    (10:46:07) b623: congrats
    (10:46:11) x11joe: This allows for some crazy possibilities and I believe a first possibly for crypto?
    (10:46:14) smokim87: good job!

Wooooooot!
http://pastebin.com/iGijBb2m

Hello

I would to ask something about this that one of the devs have said.

Is this actually the "so called" DECENTRALIZED WEB ?

Cause this is what I understand of that.  Smiley
I would be glad if one of the devs can explain it more detailed.

Thanks

Yeah, last night I did some tests proving connections via mobile and external devices (as well as localhost) connecting to cloakcoin via the browser and AJAX.

In non-technical terms, this means you can create a website (without refreshing), that can poll data live from the cloakcoin program that is running.  This also means that you could write an API to interface with the program via RPC-JSON (programming) commands.

For security, in your preference file you just set what IPs are allowed to connect to you and your username/password.

This could for example, allow you to run CloakTrade, OneMarket commands like make listings, and so forth all from external devices such as your mobile phone, as long as your client at home is still running.

It's also possible for you to create a website on the P2P network? How?

If you opt into this feature your Cloak Coin client acts as a web server of sorts.  You could for example create a local.html file which displays data from your cloak (like how many listing on onemarket there is, your balance of a particular account, the ability to send money, create a listing on onemarket, buy/sell trade cloak, and on and on etc...)

You could also create a local file html to ask the network for what peers have 'websites' they want to share, and someone could create a directory of these pages on a website for all to share by running the client on a web server and polling it constantly for updates.  This would allow for P2P websites in the future and who knows what else we want to do.

I'm probably not even realizing all the possibilities of this just yet, but it's very nifty Smiley.

19  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA on: July 18, 2014, 08:46:00 AM
:: One Market ::

I just wanted to point out some hidden benefits to OneJury.

In the past on craigslist there were lots of fake posts, like a post selling a TV and then you would get a hooker instead.

With OneJury this would be solved, and so in that regard makes the buyers experience much nicer going through the market.

OneJury does more then just stop illegal morally wrong postings is the point here, it helps stop spam too.

This means a copycat coin without OneJury would be victim to a lot of fake posts going on in there and possibly give a horrible user experience.

So we could keep OneJury but do private listings thus making a compromise possibly? Private listings would have same cost as doing any other listing + average OneJury Fee maybe?
20  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA on: July 18, 2014, 07:24:46 AM
::OneMarket Update::

Okay, in light of some recent discussions I've had regarding OneMarket we need to make some tough decisions as a community before I begin coding forward.

Problems:
- Listings have self-regulation fee to pay OneJury reviewers
- Source-code is public

These problems mean that someone can/will remove the OneJury from the coin thus making a cheaper alternative marketplace and ultimately defeating the purpose of OneJury in the first-place unfortunately BUT only if more people will use that coin and adopt it?

Will more people use the evil coin then cloak which will be held to a higher moral standard?

If I were to make a coin without OneJury...

Positives:
- Price of coin will skyrocket from dark-market use, especially because of PoSA features.
- Far easier to implement the marketplace faster.

Negatives:
- Are we legally held responsible for bad posts?
- Moral concerns about the listings.

But since someone will ultimately do it 'anyways', does that mean that we need to be the coin that might as well do it first?

So question is: "Do we stay with OneJury and try to create a safe marketplace that will compete with the copy-cat dark market coin that is sure to follow (if we can), OR do we just make the coin completely free of all restrictions?"

I'm interested to see where the community wants to go.  I will program whatever it is we want as long as everyone is aware of the moral concerns involved.

::Possible Alternatives::

It's possible to add in a private listing feature so that dark-market users can still make postings, they will just not be searchable by the general public.  This would protect the general public with OneJury still, but still allow dark-market use which would happen anyways with a copycat clone.

Downsides:
- Listings are cheaper because of no need for OneJury Fee
- People might want to just always do 'private' listings to save money.  This could work if someone created a website for OneMarket where people go their to list their public key address and everyone just searches there to find listings instead of using OneMarkets interface (thus getting around OneJury and defeating the point).

Positives:
- Listings are cheaper because of no need for OneJury Fee.
- Might make it more legal for us??
- Value of cloak goes way up from darkmarket use.

We could also create 'two' coins, cloak which upholds a moral standards for a marketplace and another coin in which anything goes? Not sure this is much of an alternative though...

I'm still thinking of other alternatives but I'm curious to see what the community wants to do moving forward.  I'm getting some sleep for now but will update you on OneMarket progress once we decide what we want to do moving forward.
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