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I want to link my Bitcointalk name with BTCJam's. Verification code: 47a81595-cfa4-4954-8e37-fbee6e8576f3
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'I want to link my Bitcointalk name with BTCJam's. Verification code: 47a81595-cfa4-4954-8e37-fbee6e8576f3'
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Traditionaly, Bitmain customers, receive their orders before the website ever updates with tracking numbers!
For the orders I've placed, I usually get them about the same day... sometimes tracking number the day before, but usually about the same time as I get the package. I tell you, people are really really paranoid... this is Bitmain... not BFL lol. How Bitmain handled a change in specs : Apology + Refund or coupon How most mining manufactures handle change in specs: "F*ck you - you'll take what we give you" |
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So, I've been hosting some of QG's hardware on a test basis for a month or so now, and he can comment on the level of service he's received.
We're looking at the feasibility of expanding to general hosting, which should be available in August if we can do it (decisions need to be made in the next few days). What we're looking at is a basic no-frills service aimed toward small- or mid-level miners that are just tired of paying high utilities.
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So if anyone has any commentary on that plan, feel free to ask. This idea started as a way to help some of the community, and if we're gonna move forward on it we pretty much need to know within the next few days. We'd have to secure at least 30KW of customers in order to be sustainable so we're looking at taking a pretty big "leap of faith" and want to know what the general opinion is.
Personally, I presently host my equip at home, but this seems like it might be a good option going forward. I checked on your website and didn't see any location info (if this was posted earlier, I apologize... didn't see it). Where are you located out of? Edit: saw it right after I clicked post. Please let me know once you finalize your plans. |
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Might want to adjust your price a bit to get a response... BTC .2 is (at current rate) about $124... you can sell on amazon for $195 (+8.95 shipping) and so even with amazon's cut its still a good bit higher than this and then you don't need to trust an escrow service or wait to get paid. (Escrow is only as good as its reputation, so unless you know the particular service to be trustworthy, its yet-another-risk.)
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You can sell them anytime why would you say its a scam .
The original post was regarding a fixed-time contract with pbmining, which (as far as I know) you can't sell off... and since you'll never get out of it what you put into it... is why its a bad investment (not sure scam is the right word, but definitely a bad investment) |
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You would think so, but because GHS are used as a mechanism for trading it can live almost in its own bubble. It's been between .0065 and .0075 per GHS since early April. I'm not denying that the prices somewhat defy logic ...a diff increase of 20% *should* cause a fall in price of 20%... but it doesn't. As long as you can sell the GHS for a price that is greater than (original price*1.004)-mined income then you will profit. - Moreover, you at least have the OPTION of liquidity... which is a better gig than a standard cloud mining contract since you can cash out whenever. (its how I bought my hardware)
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Have you calculated reinvesting the dividends? Like on Cryptsy, you can buy fractions of a mining share.
So what if you reinvested the payouts on a weekly basis?
Theoretically you'd get exponential growth. Perhaps this would work? Could you do the math on something like this?
That would probably fix it. The problem is: you will never then have BTC, you will only have GHs until the end of times. Let's say you buy 1000 GHs. These 1000 GHs after the first month give you 0.799 BTC. You buy 0.799 of GHs (no matter how much it is). Now you have 1000 GHs that will never catch up the investment, AND 0.799 of GHs that will never catch up the investment  I just trashed 150 Euro like an idiot, I can admit it. But I wonder all those people in there with thousands of GHs... how comes they didn't make the count before buying so much of it? I am not familiar with the service you are using, but on Cryptsy you can trade your mining shares back to BTC at any given time. So eventually, if you reinvest the dividends your 1 share will be 2, then 4, then 16, then 256. Or probably less because of the increase in mining difficulty. But eventually, you could cash in these shares for BTC. I calculated that if you reinvested the dividends on a weekly basis, after a few years you'd be generating like 1 BTC per day. Of course, this doesn't take into account the increase in difficulty, the decrease in share values, and of course the risk that Cryptsy gets Goxxed. So as intrigued as I have been about mining, my experiences have only lost me BTC. The good news is that after a year I'll get my principal back, so it shouldn't be a loss...but I ain't gonna get ri BTCh But watch: if you cash back your BTC, somebody else is losing. So, while you CAN do something by TRADING, you can't do anything by mining. It's just another asset you are trading, but in general that asset value is nothing. The only real winner is the cloud mining service. That makes no sense. The assets that you've accrued are directly related to mining. Without the mining dividends being reinvested, you have no value beyond the principal. So while cloud mining may not be great, your premise is flawed. Let's say you pay 100 $ for 100 GHs for 5 years. In the first year you recover 90 $ with those 100 GHs, and at the end of the 5 years you get up to... uh, well, 95 $, because after the first year the mining income becomes so small it's nearly nothing, thanks to the steady increase of difficulty of the mining process. Let's say that after the first year you reinvest those 90 $ and buy 90 GHs (it doesn't matter if you do that month by month or week by week, the mechanism is PERFECTLY THE SAME). After 5 years you still didn't get those 90 $ back. You will be at 86 $ or something. This because, again, mining difficulty increases and you don't reach what you invested. And let's say that after the second year you reinvest that income of 86$ into 86 GHs. At the end of the first year of this last investment you get back 80$, STILL LESS THAN THOSE 86$ YOU INVESTED. And after 5 years you will again get less than what you invested. The result is: you will always have more and more GHs and never get back more BTC than what you invested. It doesn't matter if you reinvest the BTC you earn from mining or you invest more BTC thanks to grandma paycheck for your birthday: they are BTC, and the GHs you buy with them does not give you back more BTC than what you put in. But you are actually investing in GHs to get back more BTC than what you invest, right? Now, I put here a couple examples, then that's all. You can now buy 1 GHs on CEX.IO for 0.0068 BTC. This is what you get back after one year (LOL): https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/6c9fc98920CEX.IO has artificially pumped prices imho, and the only successful people in there are successful because they trade. But even then, there are commissions when you buy GHs or sell for BTC... PBMining is much better: you can buy 1 GHs for 0.003 BTC at the moment. This is what you get back after one year: https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/609bf460dc0.01 BTC. Well, at least you are in active by a measure (if difficulty doesn't get another strange jump). At this point the only thing you can dispute is the difficulty increase I have put in there. But look, I didn't invent it, there is DATA about it, and the trend is not changing. It has been an average of 18% on each step of 12 days in the past and this last step jumped to 25%. DATA. Now, you can HOPE the increase in difficulty will be less and everybody will get more BTC, but... that's just... hope. Statistical data suggest otherwise. Now, you can either understand this or you can't. I warned you the way is possible to me to do so, I can't imagine a better way to explain what goes on, and I can't fight (and I don't want) people that WANT to believe something. It's not even my right, or my duty. I just talk about this because I feel I do good to people and, in last analysis, to Bitcoin. I hope this can help you. Let's assume for a second that your math is correct. CEX is still a much better value than pbmining. (using your numbers, not mine) Year 1 Invest $100 Earn/Reinvest: $90 Year2: Earn/Reinvest: 80 So that puts the total value at $170. Remember, yes, CEX charges a commision, but its 0.2% so if you were to sell $200 worth of ghs the commision is $0.40 and if you can't turn at least 40 cents worth of profit then you're doing it wrong. With PB mining, your math is actually about right since you can never get out of it what you put into it and at the end of your contract you can't just sell the GHS off to someone else, the GHS just disappears. Personally, I buy hardware and use the proceeds to reinvest into cloudhashing at CEX, BECAUSE I can get it back out later. Essentially it becomes like a BTC savings account with a modest bit of interest. (I've also done some investing in BTCJam, but have also lost money a few times there as well) |
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AntMiner S3 NEWS
The Third Batch of S3 sales price is dropped to 0.725 BTC each with international shipping, which will open sales at 22:00 pm on July 4th (UTM + 8 ). The Third Batch is most likely to be shipped before July 20th, but no more than one or two days delay may happen.
only few days later and 0.025 cheaper...  Bitmain usually adjusts their prices every day or two to reflect that the later you get the hardware the less it is worth. Afterall, if you're in batch 1 you could get as early as 7/10 batch 3 is likely after 7/20... so it makes sense that the folks in batch 3 aren't going to get the same ROI as batch 1 ... hence price difference. Personally... kudo's to Bitmain for doing this, I wish more manufacturers would. ... that being said... just to keep this question raised.... @Bitmain, please, please, please let us know the details regarding the s2/s3 upgrade (pricing availability ...etc) the answer to that question changes whether I buy several s3's and sell my existing hardware on ebay or whether I upgrade. (or some combination of the above) |
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An edit to help with your new rules  Tried to share something I found that works for me, didn't make any money on this, just sharing. Some people are just too critical and suspicions about everything. NEW SHARING RULES FOR THE FORUM
Must be ONLY FREE. - If you SAY(or imply) it is free in the subject!LOL  I give up. |
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Yep (though it usually runs a tad faster than 1ths)
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More importantly, it would be good to see upgrade plans/pricing for existing S1/S2 owners. That will make a big ROI difference depending on price.
@Bitmain, any details you can disclose yet on when/how much those upgrades will cost?
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I've placed orders with them on two separate occasions and so far they have usually taken about 30-40 min to get confirmed.
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*puts on flame retardant haz-mat suit*
I actually like having a smart meter... and at least in FL, you get the same level of energy monitoring and it's ACTUALLY free (plus it graphs it against daily high/low temperatures so you can see the impact temperature has on the power bill). That being said I still have a kill-a-watt to measure specific devices... but for whole house monitoring, this seems to do the trick.
And the electric company loves the marketers it sells your data to while raping you over the rate and you can't do a thing about it. except pucker up but you don't even know it because they can make you pack for a vacation to hell and you'll enjoy it. Respectfully disagree. For starters the utility near me for has rates well below the national average/the lowest in the state, they are among the largest producers of renewable energy and no, they don't sell smart meter data to marketing companies. (if your local utility does... well... my condolences. ) |
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Cex.io the company behind Ghash.io offers cloud mining.
Do not buy this. You will end up mining in the Ghash pool which is nearing 51% hash rate of the total network.
Which, in simple language, gives certain people the ability to perform a mass fraud (double spending) in bitcoin.
Check before you post. They're at 35% at the moment. source: https://blockchain.info/pools |
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You had mentioned prior that previous buyers of Antminer S1 and S2 miners would be able to upgrade. Can you provide any details on the upgrade pricing/process?
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Another thing to consider is *where* you get your cloud mining GH/S from...
I know its popular to hate on ghash right now, but let's take a look at cex.io, the GH/S trading side of the pool.
Right now, the current sell order is at 0.00747497 BTC per GHS.
CEX charges 0.2% per trade
So let's say you bought 100 GHS from CEX, that would run you 0.748991994 BTC including the trade fee.
In order to get out with only what you put in you would need to generate 0.00149499 BTC and still sell at 0.00747497 BTC per GHS. If you are able to sell for higher than that (which in defiance of all logic and difficulty has lately been very, very possible) then you could actually profit just on the trading alone.... but we're here to talk mining, not trading.
Based on the last few blocks I've gotten, 100ghs is likely to net you about 0.00000552 per block on ghash.io and yesterday we got 56 blocks, which puts you at making 0.00030912 BTC gross. CEX also charges maintainance fees that can run around 35% to cover power and repairs. Factoring that in, you'll be pulling in a net daily income of 0.00020093 at present difficulty.
According to Zeroblock, the next difficulty adjustment will happen in 1.8 days as of the time of posting. So that means 0.00036167 before the next increase.
I claim no expertise on predicting difficulty increase(Though I've heard using a ouija board or voodoo has had good success) , but let's use 20% every 10 days since this makes the math a bit easier and I think is pretty close.
For days 0-1.8 you've so far made 0.00036167 the remainder of that last day you could expect to pull in a net of 0.00003214
For the next 9.8 days 0.00000441 per block, 0.00024696 per day (gross) and 0.000160524 per day net. Total of 0.00157314 for that difficulty and 0.0019348 grand total between now and the end of the next difficulty.
For the next 2 difficulties, which would be just about a months worth of time the numbers work as follows:
0.00000353 per block, 0.0019768 gross, 0.00128492 Net, 0.00321972 total
0.00000282 per block, 0.0015792 gross, 0.00102648 Net, 0.0042462 total
So at that point you could sell off the 100GHS you have for as low as 0.00744737 (including the .2% sale fee) and still at least get your money back. If you sell it for what you paid then even after the first 10 days you would turn some profit. (a tiny, honestly not really worth your time profit... but a profit none the less. )
Obviously there are a lot of factors here that would impact the calculations one way or the other... anything from an increase/decrease in the number of blocks that ghash pulls on a given day to the difficulty increase being better or worse than anticipated. Ultimately, 100ghs isn't going to make you any real money and it should be treated like a hobby more than anything, but you can easily get *some* return as long as you can sell off that hashing power. It's the fixed multi year contract that screwed you as there isn't a viable exit strategy other than to lick your wounds and learn not to do it again next time.
TLDR: Liquidity is what makes it possible to profit. Which is why you should restate it as "contract based cloud mining is a scam"
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I am also very interested in the upgrade  |
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Does anyone know any good miner friendly sites in Florida?
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*puts on flame retardant haz-mat suit*
I actually like having a smart meter... and at least in FL, you get the same level of energy monitoring and it's ACTUALLY free (plus it graphs it against daily high/low temperatures so you can see the impact temperature has on the power bill). That being said I still have a kill-a-watt to measure specific devices... but for whole house monitoring, this seems to do the trick.
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