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So, if you changed one word in a 12-word phrase, an attacker that knows this would only have to try 12276 possibilities (12 x 1023). I think that would probably take less than a second, so the checksum isn't really a factor.
Yeah, that it is indeed. So changing word that makes seed incorrect is not a solution. Will think about the password. But I guess you mean some other password, like extension word. not the password for encrypting the keys generated out of the seed. How compatible is "bip-39 password " between wallets? is it part of bip39 standard? I'll google something about it. Thanks |
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Don't do that.
You may think this is smart, but your funds will be more likely at risk.
Of you need extra security, use a passphrase to a normal bip39 seed.
Don't try to create a new security system. There are good options here. Learn them first.
i recommend ledger and trezor wallets for everyone
they are the safer choice for newbies. your coins will be safe, and that is what matters here.
Hardware wallets are very easy to loose or be stolen when you want to travel with it. Keys can be secured by passphrase only when stored electronically. When you store something electronically you often forget where did you store it. especially after longer time. If keys are store electronically then they are vulnerable to be stolen. If you want to properly secure the keys you need to use strong password. That also requires to write it down and store it somewhere. It may seem to be good way to you but I can't see this done by my wife and kids and remember where keys are and passphrase is and keep then offline and apart each other. And still have access to them. Seed is pretty good and easy for non technical people to keep. You can store multiple copies all around in offline form and can easily take it with you anywhere. But it needs a way to add a simple element to it that only owner knows. If stolen, no problem, it is stored on other places and thief cannot use it. |
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Hi everyone,
I'm trying to invest some considerable money into crypto. I'm thinking about creating more wallets and distribute funds a little and give family members access each to one wallet in case they will need it. So wallets are potentially for long term store without using it by hot wallet.
I'm looking for good solution to do this.
I originally wanted to create wallet end export bip39 seed to back it up.
Then I wanted to modify the seed by adding something to phrase but this is apparently supported only by Electrum wallet which is not using bip39 standard.
Then I learnt that bip39 is not extensible. So I wanted to replace one word in phrase by other word that only person with access to this wallet would know. My thinking behind this is that if I (and others) will store the original seed on paper or electronically, if someone would steal the seed, it will lead to valid wallet but with some insignificant coins on it. But only by replacing one particular word in it would restore correct wallet. Which potential hacker would not know about.
Unfortunately now I learnt that it is not possible to just swap one word because of last word is checksum that would also need to be replaced and is not simple to determine anyway.
So if I change any word in seed it will become invalid, which will give hacker a clue that this seed is modified in some way. Here comes my question if hacker would want to figure out correct seed and he would assume that one of the word is incorrect, how difficult it would be to figure out which word is to be replaced and which word to use instead? It is possible to determine if from checksum word directly or is the brute force the only way?
if he would need to brute force it, what is the complexity of finding one random word anywhere in the phrase?
I saw this interesting article about figuring our last 4 missing words by brute force which took about one day to find complete seed. But this is slightly different mathematical issue.
Thanks for ideas.
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If it was created in 2017 you might install a fake Electrum wallet, 2017 was the year when many people were victims of phishing Electrum wallet.
Or you might be a victim of Clipboard malware but the only problem the address where you sent BTC to funds is still there.
That could be an explanation. Sadly. And if it was fake software i could have even shown funds received on fake wallet. BUT as you say btc is still there ;o) |
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As said, you are using a wrong seed phrase.
Are you sure that you have never used any wallet other than electrum?
You didn't answer the question asked by o_e_l_e_o.
Do you remeber seeing any balance in your wallet?
It happened in 2017 and I never used it since. Just wrote down the seed at the time. Can't really remember details. I'm not sure about anything anymore. I understand that the address that I sent btc to is not the same wallet I have seed from. I just have no clue where I've got the legacy address I sent it to. Seems like I will never find out anymore ;| Thanks for help to all, anyway.. |
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Alright guys. Just last question, is the legacy seed strict? or is it possible that I used this seed to create legacy wallet when I was trying to test it..
I mean, I'm very organised person and I tend to test and verify things and I just can't simply digest that I messed up this way ;o) I haven't created 2 wallets intentionally. So I'm trying to think of a way how this could have happened.
Is it possible that in the older version of Electrum, I created my first wallet. And then I learned about it a little (it was my first wallet) and revealed my seed and then I tested this seed to see if I can recover the wallet from it. Just to confirm myself that the seed works.
But instead of restoring same wallet I somehow created new one (legacy one) using this seed not understanding that it's not the same wallet? So I took one of the address and transferred btc to it.
And now I don't know how I used this seed to create that second wallet...
The problem with Electrum (it's probably not a problem but consequence of how seed recovering work) is that when you use anything that is accepted as seed it always creates "some" wallet. So it's easy to "restore" different wallet by mistake especially when it has no transactions on it yet.
Any ideas? the puzzling thing here is that seed seems like segwit but receiving address is legacy.
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Yes, the address is valid. But as said, it can't be generated by your seed phrase if it's segwit-type.
So it looks like I messed up... I have no idea where I got this address where I sent btc to. Also why would I write down seed of empty wallet ;( this all makes no sense to me... Do you still have access to the device you created the wallet on? The wallet file may be still there.
Nope, unfortunately I changed my MacBook twice since then. And old ones are gone. |
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Since you have created the wallet using electrum, your seed phrase can't be BIP39. Electrum use its own algorithm for creating a seed phrase.
Also, the transaction you shared in OP doesn't include any segwit address. So, the seed phrase you need for accessing the fund can't be segwit-type. (Segwit addresses start with bc1)
So what you are saying is that this address does not belong to electrum wallet at all? I double checked the transaction on my coinbase account. it is showing this receiving address 15TRBjwU1T2fde81g6mNRcKcUu2baDHzom https://www.dropbox.com/s/1cvrjabsasjn19g/CleanShot%202022-03-07%20at%2022.15.46.jpg?dl=0When I checked address with adress checker it says it is valid address and it is type of BASE58 (P2PKH) I'm confused. I have 12 words seed which electrum identifies as segwit. But the address I sent btc is not same type, therefore it cannot belong to this wallet? |
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Thanks everyone for replies. Based on your information it seems to me that wallets I restore are not the one. But I can't figure out why. I used electrum app (latest version at the time of transaction) to create my wallet. I only made one wallet ever in my life and only this one transaction. Then I displayed the seed and wrote it down on paper. Since then I never used it until now. I can't remember me adding any special words to seed. I don't have any note about such words either. The seed I wrote on the paper is very clearly wrote. And these words match dictionary in electrum wallet. Hence it still leads to different wallet. When I enter seed it displays it is of type segwit. I also tried to restore it with BIP39 seed as suggested which says checksum failed but it still allows to proceed. I tried all 3 options Legacy, p2sh-segiwt and native segwit. Left derivation path default. But all wallets created are showing empty history and 0 balance while wallet is in sync. I did 22 wallet creation attempts with all possibilities I could think of ;( I read also this https://bitcoinelectrum.com/frequently-asked-questions/#why-does-restoring-my-wallet-from-seed-lead-to-a-different-walletbut there is not much more mentioned to try. Should I try to install electrum app released around the time I created the original wallet? Can that make any difference? |
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Is your wallet synced?
The circle located at bottom right corner of the window should be green. Otherwise your wallet is not synced.
yes it is green. Go to "Addresses" tab. Do you see the address you used for receiving bitcoin 4 years ago there?
(If addresses tab isn't available, click on "View" at top of the window and select "Show addresses".
I can see multiple receiving addresses there and some "change" adresses... all showing Balance 0 and tx 0 In that case, you should see an outgoing transaction in "history" tab.
My history tab is empty. The transaction you shared includes two outputs.
Which of addresses is yours? 15TRBjwU1T........ or 1P767QD3qz.........?
I don't know, how do I find out? |
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Hi, I'm trying to restore my Bitcoin wallet that I created 4 years ago with Electrum. I have got a seed with 12 words. I only made one transfer to the wallet from my coinbase account which is recorded here https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/acac52b8482bb75945a93b9c5b939fe5dc701063e9df591bf2bed768ca692f7dWhen I restore wallet with my seed I get 0 bitcoins on it. I'm trying to find out what is wrong but I don't understand few things. 1. how can I confirm that restored wallet is the correct one that received transaction on the link above? 2. is the seed case sensitive? my noted seed has got 12 words all lowercase only one word I have written down is with first letter capital. Does it matter? When I'm recovering wallet in electrum it does let me to restore wallet when I change letter to capital or lowercase but if I change the letter to different one it does not allow me to continue. Seems like it is case insensitive? 3. if I get my wallet restored correctly, how do I verify that someone hasn't got hold of my wallet and didn't transfer bitcoin out of my wallet? If the restored wallet is the one I expect would I see the transaction history in electrum with all transfers in and out? |
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