Some TGBEX history for anyone interested / a bit of pumping

The 0.5 BTC 001 coin is in the Manx museum (Douglas, Isle of Man, where TGBEX is based) - donated in 2014
The 1 BTC 001 coin belongs to my eldest daughter (company was inspired by desire to buy my children a bitcoin each, so they own 001-003 (and no exchange seems to last more than 3 years...))
The 2 BTC 001 coin belongs to my ex-wife (very bad mistake)
The 5 BTC 001 coin is in private hands (sold loaded 2014)
The 10 BTC 001 coin is in private hands (sold loaded 2014)
Have kept the 20 BTC 001 coin (unloaded)

The 50BTC coin is waiting to be snatched!

Many thanks to Vizique for listing/ selling and promised to find login here (been a few years, so apologies for rant!) to provide a bit more detail.

TGBEX was setup in 2014 to promote bitcoin ownership via physical coins/ offline wallets - the company was launched in the Isle of Man (where it remains fully incorporated, licensed, banked etc), with the catalyst being the legal issues faced by Casascius (impossible to operate in a hostile environment like the US?) - imho physical coins remain one of the best ways to educate, arouse interest and promote bitcoin the world needs physical bitcoins.

Every coin is engraved/ etched and signed off by 2 people on a certificate (I have signed every one) to say the coin has been sealed and the private key destroyed (does NOT mean they are 'loaded').

The coins are kept deliberately simple to allow access to as many people as possible - whilst recognising the benefits of 2FA/ MFA, they create huge complications (eg are all these security methods going to be compatible with all forks/ future forks?) and shortened keys etc bring different risks - aim was to make the nicest coins out there that the most people could understand/ use/ trust.

The coins have roped edges/ intricate design/ unusual size etc to try and add security/ reduce likelihood of forgeries (at least makes it more expensive to try/ easier to spot any fakes) - coins/ equipment/ stock etc all kept in seperate locations for security and do everything possible to keep the coins protected/ secure/ 'valid'.

From a business perspective the bitcoin price has rescued the company, whilst we sold (loaded) bitcoins to approx 10 different countries to a total value of approx 70BTC - the company never really got off the ground for all kinds of reasons- original business partner (Richard Owusu) stole cash, coins and left a mess, well known scamster (John James Bridge) stole 6 BTC and a few coins, also gave away about 10 coins to people who promised to help sell them - a few tried, but coins just seemed to get stashed away!

Too early to market in some ways, but simple things like website crashing whenever marketing efforts were made and endlessly changing regulations didnt help, so self inflicted pains of setting up a company in bitcoin...

Slowly grew the company, but personal issues put a stop to things in 2016, just as business became profitable (ex-wife had an affair with a (part-time) fireman for all of 2015 behind my back, then kicked me out of my house/office (paid for by my life's work in offices) with all kinds of lies and has been harassing me ever since - if anything needs a blockchain solution it is the Irish family law system!) - I was forced back into finance (accountant by trade) and had promised to close down TGBEX (actually couldn't as had to apply for licence as operating in 2015!) and the company has been 'dormant' for 12-18 months.

Currently consulting/ looking at the future and thinking of relaunching given structure is all 'live'  (in theory we are licensed to sell >500BTC of physical coins daily through UK banking system... but looking at denominations/ improving security/ possibility of different cryptocurrencies first and it is a very different industry now).

The Genesis edition of TGBEX coins will not be continued (maybe an Exodus edition next..) - original idea was never to allow 'unloaded' coins into the wild, but slowly became unsustainable (due to price and turning down 90% of potential business) and have sold a number of unloaded coind over the last 12 months.

To think we debated whether spending £100 on each of the wooden boxes was too much for a 10BTC coin...

In total of the coins 'minted' there are 600 of the normal coins (numbered, as there are some unnumbered given away for displays etc) and 100 silver.

There are 25 of each of the silver coins - 10s, 20s, 50s (and 25s which were made in error/ all unmade).

The number 2 and 3 of the 20s and 50s are lost (removed together to be made from stock, but never made), so there will only ever be 23 of the silver 20s.

Had promised Vizique some early edition coins (when I was stubbornly sticking to the 'only loaded' idea) a few years ago, so this coin is part of a package of those coins reserved a while ago.

The coins are essentially an offline paper wallet - you have to trust me (Adrian Forbes) and my associates that we have not copied or retained the private key engraved on each coin - second hand sales add an extra layer of risk, so please be careful if using as an offline wallet- this coin was part of a package personally sent to Vizique recently so have no reason to suspect the coin has in any way been compromised/ copied.

Encourage everyone to generate their own offline wallets (hope to relaunch crypart in the coming future as well which was setup with this idea in mind, but every customer to date has trusted us to generate priavte keys, so what can you do!!).

PS Recently tested redeeming a coin - safely moved bitcoin and bcash using mycelium/ coinami to exchanges for sale, so they do work in the event of forks, just hope we dont have to test nuclear war next...

Happy Xmas from us at TGBEX.

Have 8 AussieBTCs coins left for anyone wishing to purchase a physical bitcoin with bitcoin and gift wrapping/ 10 chocolate coins included with every order.

Another production run early next week, so should have all coins back in stock (currently out of 2btc and 10btc coins)

Many thanks for the feedback and to the customers who have posted pictures- stocks running a bit low of coins (and the aussie btc coins), so if anyone would like to order one in time for Xmas, please DM me and will try and get to squeeze a production run in next week if necessary.

Also have a reseller lined up in Canada if anyone from there is interested in purchasing any coins (only 0.5btc/ 1btc coins currently), more details to follow....

Price for 1BTC coin is currently £349 (if you contact us, can take off £30 from any coin if you want to pay in BTC)

Each coin comes with 10 chocolate coins, protective case, explanatory booklet, certificate of authenticity, gift box, gift wrapping and includes P&P (& an AussieBTC 0.01BTC coin TODAY ONLY)

Only currently available in EU.

Unfortunately discount codes don't really work given range we sell (eg a 10% discount would be great for most coins, but would mean orders for a 20btc coin would be sold at a loss)

What we are doing (just for today) is giving away an AussieBTC 0.01BTC physical bitcoin with any order (or 2 with any order paid in bitcoin)

Reason we dont make coins less than 0.5BTC is we would have to charge more than a 100% markup which sort of makes physical bitcoins just a novelty, rather than a practical investment.

For anyone wanting to purchase coins using bitcoin, if you DM us (or send an email to info@tgbex.com), can arrange a discount off website prices as well (prices are higher than they should be, as if a customer pays by bank transfer, we get charged £30)

Pic

Anyone wanting to know more about our physical bitcoins, setting up in the Isle of Man, or wanting to ask any questions, our Founder, Adrian Forbes is taking part in the AMA here:
https://forum.bitcoin.com/ama-ask-me-anything-f69/

Should be live in a few hours (18.00 GMT)

TGBEX are pleased to offer a free AussieBTC physical bitcoin (0.01btc) with any TGBEX physical bitcoin bought with btc (as long as stocks last/ will post here if stock running low).

AussieBTC coins have been available on ebay for a few years now and are a great gift to introduce people into bitcoin (we gave away 20-30 of them to help explain the concept of physcial bitcoins to government officials, legal and accounting partners and many more, when setting up TGBEX).

More information on TGBEX can be found on our website at www.tgbex.com and purchases can be made using Paypal, bank transfer, or bitcoin (using coinbase).

All coins come with a booklet explaining bitcoin, physical bitcoins and TGBEX, plus a certificate of authenticity (with QR code matching the public key visible on reverse of coin to enable the balance of bitcoin in the wallet to be quickly checked), a presentation box and 10 free branded chocolate coins.

Please DM us, or contact us at info@tgbex.com if you wish to purchase any higher value coins (5btc, 10btc & 20btc coins available upon request, subject to KYC/ AML requirements).

We only retail within the EU, but a few customers have said they are prepared to sell their TGBEX coins to anyone wishing to purchase coins from outside the EU (happy to put you in contact with them if you DM us).

Further details on AussieBTC can be found here: https://www.facebook.com/aussiebtcs

Think we have dealt with all the requests and comments, but please DM us if anything outstanding.

We have a new deal/ giveaway for anyone wishing to purchase coins with bitcoin that we are finalizing, so stay tuned... will post it here first, as the natural home of physical bitcoins! (hopefully tomorrow)

A few people have asked about the 10/ 20 btc coins- they are made from 1.6oz  of .999 silver (hallmarked) and come in handmade (in UK) wooden boxes

Here are some pics:

Think we have now answered all PMs and many thanks for all those who have shown an interest/ placed an order.

Feel free to hassle if we haven't answered any questions!

sorry current pricing can be found here:

http://www.tgbex.com/pricing/

Prices are updated if the bitcoin price moves significantly and generally fixed in GBP (which is converted to EUR/ BTC)

We did have live pricing briefly, but had big issues with the price feeds (will revisit this at some point as think the feeds are now more reliable, but when one feed even briefly sends through a 0 price then it can go horribly wrong!)

Even if you are selling unloaded wallets you face the same issue - in theory a manufacturer of unloaded wallets could keep private keys and wait until they were loaded...

Building a reputation is very hard, especially when you advise customers (especially of larger amounts) to keep them hidden! - we stopped someone taking a picture of the first 10btc coin being sold as it is obviously much safer to not tell anyone you own one! (if bitcoin did ever get to $10,000 or $1,000,000 you could become a target for thieves)

ErikvanBreen- Will speak to a few people who have been involved in escrow and try and sort something out - I'll PM you with an exact price - probably around 3.6btc for a 1 & 2?

wttbs- Coins are made from a brass alloy with different finishes (except the 10/ 20 btc coins which are solid silver)- recently added some details to a this thread if you want some more details:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1207803.0

Please send us a PM with what you are after if you would like a specific quote for btc orders

Apologies for neglecting thread! (we tend to announce things here and on reddit, but trying to target a wider market, so concentrate on more popular mediums (twitter/ facebook etc)

- prices are updated if any major movement in the bitcoin price, otherwise fixed in EUR or GBP (depending on who updates prices (whether in UK or EU))

current pricing can be found here: https://twitter.com/bitcoinTGBEX/status/643476363337465857

prices are higher than we would like (we have UK banking, but get charged £30 for each bank transfer, which wipes out almost all profit on 0.5btc coins/ 1 btc coins)- working on getting discount applied for any purchases made with bitcoin (not as simple as it should be!) and promise still working on Canadian sales! (postal insurance outside UK causes issues - couriers generally wont touch them and insured post is limited)

eg sent 2 packages to USA (NOT sales, but one did include a loaded coin) that have got lost, so managing this risk is tricky (we could obviously load coins upon confirmation of receipt if we kept public keys, but if they get lost would still have 'numbered' coins with holograms that are unloaded floating around, which is something we are keen to avoid).

Speaking of chocolate coins....
We generally give away chocolate coins with purchases and to local businesses that accept bitcoin for them to giveaway (for promotion/ to reciprocate their support (can currently be found in the Thirsty Pigeon pub, Douglas, Isle of Man, but think Java coffee have run out at the moment))

https://www.facebook.com/783520681668080/photos/pb.783520681668080.-2207520000.1415136368./829675330385948/?type=1&theater

Always have serious issues posting pics here from facebook?? (gave up and just used link!)

There are a number of mints that can have the coins made and to make a 'cheap' coin is quite achievable, but with any wallets, security has to be of paramount importance and needs to be carefully thought through.

Think we obtained quotes from 4 or 5 coin manufacturers and ended up picking the most expensive for a number of reasons.
- Chinese manufacturers obvious choice based on price, but can you guarantee they wont sell fakes? (which would obviously be hugley lucrative to them and disastrous for a real manufacturer)- believe a major name has suffered from this already.
- US manufacturers seemed risky given over-regulated area/ potential for them to pull the plug given risks etc (also found the 2 we contacted as very hard to deal with), so we ruled them out
- Quality has to be key (again to protect against forgery) - all our coins are made from different dies for each denomination and had to order special machinery to achieve a level of detail in the coins which would make them hard to copy (never going to be impossible unfortunately).

We do not disclose manufacturer (inadvisable for security reasons?) and came to the conclusion that we would not divulge exact methodology of generating keys either (obviously done offline, but we trialled various software options, many of which we thought would be acceptable eg pipex wallet generator/ ubuntu)- to disclose exact methods would make software/us a target for hacking and perhaps jeopardise the 'randmoness' of key generation which is the most crucial part of any offline wallet generation. We also keep our office location (for manufacturing) secret as much as possible for obvious reasons and security for storage/ transport of supplies/ finished goods is also a nightmare (we received some very useful feedback on dangers of keys being x-rayed- whilst we do not consider this a serious 'everyday' risk (advise customers to secure coins safely away from others) - regularly travel with loaded coins through airports, so we always have to ask for them not to be put through xray machines (have interesting conversations with security about why/ what they are adn it invariably can lead to extra delays/ suspicion!!)

Trademarks also crucial if you want to do it 'properly' which is expensive (in case of forgeries), holograms if used, need to be detailed for security reasons again and advisable to look into extra security possibilities (deliberate hidden errors/ an element of being hand-made as we do cutting out windows in holograms/ numbering coins). We also had to invest substantial amounts in legal advice (patent advice (purely to ensure we weren't infringing on any), trademarks, local regulatory advice (especially for T&Cs) and also tax advice (we have registered for VAT (sales tax), but calculations are very complicated (bitcoin value is not VATable)

To make unloaded coins is quite straightforward, or to sell small denominations of loaded coins is fairly simple. Making 1btc coins or higher value coins (we make 10btc & 20 btc coins) is a little trickier given need to comply with various regulations (which vary depending on which country you are selling to/ where you are based).

We spent 4-6 months looking at market, potential target audience and working out financials. Need to consider are you targeting coin collectors (grading important), bitcoin community (2FA/ MFA could be important) or general public (we set out with mission to spread bitcoin ownership/ awareness, so have always tried to keep coins affordable/ as simple as possible)?

We invested in anlaysing competition (so have casascius, titan, lealana, silver wallet and a number of the purely novelty/ decorative coins you see plastered all over the media, plus have given away probably 40-50 aussie btc 0.01 btc coins to family/ friends/ legal/ accounting partners/ various government officials etc to explain concept)

key for us was ensuring keys are 'readable' years into the future (glues, paper etc likely to seep/ wear over 5 or 10 years?), which is why we went down the engraving route- but are you looking at coins for long term storage, easy access or purely a a commercial concept?

Our 10/ 20 btc coins are made from solid silver (.999) and are individually hallmarked by a decent assay office (Birmingham, UK), whereas the lower denominations are made from a cheaper brass alloy (as we engrave coins had to steer away from softer alloys, but this required extra costs in terms of machinery)

Reasoning for this is we did not want to be charging 1btc for a 0.5btc coin or 2btc for a 1btc coin (which you would probably have to do if using solid silver) to bring bitcoin to a wider audience and we wanted to keep our pricing as close to the bitcoin value as possible (solid silver is not a 'significant' cost for a 10/20btc coin, but obviously would be for a 0.5/ 1btc coin).

Another consideration is facing the question of 'how do I know you havent copied private keys'? We have procedures and require at least 2 people to oversee production/ sign off on a certificate which comes with each coin saying all records of private key in question have been destroyed (though in reality in comes down to trust/ reputation which have to be earned).

All the above is subjective, a lot is debatable and these are just the conclusions we came to given our own aims, chosen location, experiences of those involved and feedback (every manufacturer will have thier own opinions and choices should be specific to those involved and their aims).

Feedback/ specific requests suggests there is demand for unloaded coins, including for solid silver (or even gold) wallets, but have ignored this because a) there are already a number of companies making these and b) does not fit with TGBEX ethos/ objectives

Would add, anyone trying to make a lot of money from physical bitcoins is likely to be disappointed:
- selling smaller denominations means hard to generate much revenue (without huge volume, margins would need to be set at a level where you will get a lot of people complaining you are trying to rip them off)
- selling higher denominations means setting up properly / will require sales of 200- 300 coins which is unlikely to be achieved in first year or two, especially given selling in the USA (which would be largest market, based on interest we have received) is impossible given need to register as a money transmitter in each state (cost of this could be anything from $500k-$1.5million and unless everyone suddenly wants a physcial bitcoin, unlikely to ever make that back (even ignoring ongoing costs to monitor changes in requirements/ licences etc)

ie it needs to be a 'labour of love' and something you really want to do. Generally (unless crowd funded/ accepting pre-orders which is dangerous (see various examples of this in threads here)) will need a substantial capital investment/ outlay and legal/ regulatory hurdles are not simple (and constantly changing!).

Big fans of all offline wallets (scratch cards/ wooden wallets/ paper wallets/ coins etc) which we think are ideal (perhaps crucial?) to bringing bitcoin to non-tech experts, so happy to help with any questions/ in any way we can, if you would like any specific advice (that wouldnt compromise our security in any way!)

Many thanks for adding TGBEX to the list.

Prices are in £ or € depending on which country you access the website from and we accept bitcoin via coinbase as well.

Payment can be made via paypal, bank transfer or coinbase, but please note we only retail TGBEX physcial bitcoins in the EU (currently looking at requirements for other countries, but the USA is unviable, given excessive licensing requirements!).

TGBEX company mission is to spread bitcoin awareness and ownership to anyone/ sell bitcoin as an asset which we believe it was meant to be (given the finite nature/ 21million cap), so we do not sell unloaded coins.

Public and private keys are engraved onto the reverse of coins (with the public key visible/ private key hidden under a security hologram) and coins come boxed, with a booklet explaining the coins and a certificate signed by two people to confirm all other records of the private key have been destroyed.

TGBEX Limited is incorporated in the Isle of Man and is subject to local regulations and registered for VAT (sales tax).

The 0.5BTC - 5BTC coins are made from a brass alloy with a range of finishes (0.5 antiqued bronze, 1 silver, 2 gold and 5 antiqued gold).

The 10BTC/ 20BTC coins are solid silver (.999) and are hallmarked by the assay office in Birmingham UK - although 'out of stock' on website, they are available on request (we also have a few 50BTC silver coins and a demo 24ct gold 100BTC coin) - these come in a larger 'deluxe' wooden box (handmade in the UK).

Please note we are also required to collect AML/ KYC/ ID verification for any orders over €1,000 currently (hoping the Manx Digital Currency Association will lobby for less regulation rather than more at some point and get this limit increased in line with other EU requirements/ guidlines, but have withdrawn our support from the MDCA until this happens).

Picture above, but found another one below:



The holograms are metallic and when removed leave VOID marks on the coin - they have been designed (like coins) to make them as hard as possible to copy and each coin has a 'window' (so that owners can see/ check the public key) which is manually cut out

The digits you can see are the public key, the private key remains hidden under the bottom half of the hologram.

Once removed the holograms leave a 'VOID' mark on the coin and are damaged/ would be very hard to replace.

Hoping to get a few on display in London/ Amsterdam soon... (currently only on display in the Isle of Man - first coin was donated to local museum and samples are on display in a local craft shop/ believe there is also one in a display cabinet in a reception to government department)