Yes I know some points are similar to conventional currencies. You need to fulfil them all to make a quant geek currency such as Bitcoin.

When you say 'them' who exactly do you mean?

'Them' is quite ranging.

Disagree. I'm the only one not embarrassing himself.

All trading systems need to be backed up by recourse to law if an individual is wronged in a transaction. Its all very well the entire world being able to see your hash code address but you would have to identify yourself in order to take legal action. The only advantage in anonymous transactions is if your trying to do something illegal.

This 'currency' is a Quant dream. Do any of you know what a Quant is?

Just to inform you all Bitcoin isn't some sort of singularity in history. Hayek theorised about free market banking and currencies years ago and it never caught on - for the same reasons Bitcoin won't work.

A question I would like you all to consider is:

If having a limited amount of currency is so obviously advantageous why don't the Federal Reserve (or any other central bank) stop engaging in open market operations?

I started the thread. You have already said goodbye to us all once and failed to clear off.

Please honour your word.

Wow if I gave you a chart of last months wind speed could you predict the weather for next month using this technique?

 

Bitcoin will still be deflationary when other currencies exist.

So far we have determined:

1) Bitcoins 'anonymous' nature is useless as to contest payment evidence of transaction is required.
2) Bitcoin does not prevent monopoly by institutional investors.

'Plus, I don't think we have data to support that not having anonymity provides more efficiency.'

Well it does provide efficiency as it tends to be quite a good incentive not to commit crime. Who is going to pay somebody when their is no guarantee that what they have bought will arrive?
 

And how exactly is Bitcoin going to prevent this happening?

What a novel idea! Surely nobody in history has ever been smart enough to think up such a scheme?

LOL. What a complete financial ignoramus you are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Term_Capital_Management

By the way - it crashed (in 1998).

'And a handful of people control it.'

Yes the banks shareholders - you can go and buy a share if you want and have a vote.

I believe I have pointed out a very important fact:

The anonymous nature of Bitcoin removes any recourse to law when trades fall through unless you are going to remove its anonymous nature.

Q: Who is going to make Amazon pay you?
Ans: A court which requires evidence of transactions.

Nutter!

Try to understand that when two people trade they both require proof of the transaction so as to have legal rights if either side does not pay. Its why we invented banks.

Bitcoin does not provide this very basic requirement.

I'm not entering into a discussion about passing keys or codes around as it is what you would call a 'recursive' argument. At some point proof will have to be provided of the transaction in both directions if either party fails to pay.
  

'in this hypothetical situation when you buy a book of Amazon, Amazon can provide you a receipt with unique bitcoin address and delivery address, signed by its private key. then you will be able to prove that the payment has been sent to that address, but the book has not been delivered (and it doesn't matter who ordered the book, paid for it or was going to receive it)'

Very technically clever but instantly the entire system then fails to be 'anonymous' if Amazon refuse to accept the key is correct. Also just to further bring you into reality - you would have to provide an address for them to send the book to.

You guys are living in an entirely theoretical world. Wake up.

Asset prices do drop in a deflationary economy. If you are attempting to challenge this assertion please explain.

It does not cost me '50 bucks' to transfer money across borders. It costs the current spread quoted in the FX markets which most traders would consider worth paying to avoid Bitcoins volatility.

Why are guys all so against people 'logging' your financial transactions. Some proof of payment tends to be quite useful in the real world. Its why we have invented things called receipts.

Real World Scenario:

1) I buy a book of Amazon for 10 Bitcoins.
2) I send Amazon 10 Bitcoins.
3) Book never turns up.
4) I ask Amazon where my book is.
5) Amazon ask me to prove I paid for the book then they will send it.
6) I can't because transactions are anonymous.
7) Entire system fails as no legal recourse exists. Welcome to reality.
 
You can see here that the entire premise of Bitcoin being anonymous has just been totally destroyed in 7 points by someone without a Phd in Computer Science or even A-levels. It is open to systemic fraud and confidence will never materialise.

Its not surprising that the entire Bitcoin 'project' was thought up by a cryptographer in a lab somewhere.

 

Lol nice one.

Miss all the important points and pick up on the last.

Quant boy.

The myth with Bitcoin is that since a finite amount of coins are available this somehow benefits the consumer or empowers people.

All Bitcoin will lead to is a deflationary economy in which asset prices continuously drop killing investment. I actually suggest you go and learn some economics instead of further math or programming.

The comparison to Pogs was clearly psychological.

- they are a way to instantly send money across the world with very low fees - Already exists without risk of Bitcoin exchange rate fluctuations.
- they are decentralized; no authority can freeze or seize your assets - Also applied to gold
- they are pseudo-anonymous; contrary to traditional financial systems - Also applies to credit cards

This whole Bitcoin 'project' is a purely quant phenomena. Its inhabited by mathematicians and physicists who appear to be slightly detached from the economic realities of this world.

About 30% of the world have internet access. Internet currency. Great idea.



 

List of things required for a true 'quant' currency:

1) No relationship to anything in the real world either physically or economically.
2) Inner workings can only be understood by programmer types or crypto-geeks
3) You can trade it over computers and never have to integrate into society or meet people.
4) Can be traded at super high frequency by computer programmes.
5) Entire currency can be understood in purely mathematical and statistical terms.
6) Currency can be created by solving mathematical equations quickly.

What Bitcoin appears to be is a giant 'quant fund' exercise which is bound to crash as it has no fundamental value in the long run.

Bitcoin is totally doomed as the majority of those involved have no idea about really basic economics or why currencies exist.

I will predict the future of Bitcoin:

It will turn into a 'bot-war' of geeks trying to perform ultra-fast quant computer trading and eventually the market will dry out as real traders become bored with it as its volatility reaches absurd levels. The entire concept of trade is exchange of different physical commodities - it is why people used to risk sailing half way around the world to bring back goods.

Bitcoin is a bit like Pogs as in they are very exciting to own and trade when your 10 years old - then you grow up and realise they are pointless and have no value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogs

Duration until Bitcoin tanks: About 3 months.

Ignore at your own peril.

  

I warn you now that when people start taking money from people it ceases to be a 'game'.