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Just posted another update.
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I'm in the UK and use Intersango to sell my bitcoins and the money is in my bank the same day. Sending money to them should be just as quick but I havn't done that. I've no idea how long it takes with EUR and USD but if you're in the UK, Intersango is easily the best option.
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The most annoying part of the process you listed is transferring funds between banks and exchanges because of the wait. I don't see what you can do to make that any less annoying. The exchange websites are pretty simple to use as is sending BTC to someone.
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since trying this out, namecoind has stopped working. stuck at block 24191.
I don't see how that could be caused by the GUI. All the GUI does, is run namecoind as a process, passes it commands and intercepts the output. Have you reported the problem to the namecoind developers? |
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There's something wrong with the SMPPS pool. The current BTC round share is ~100,000 but no block is being listed as found. If we haven't found a block, it should be ~3,000,000.
quite right, I'm looking into it. No block in the transaction log. Everything else seems to working right. Some of my rewards have been shifted from Unconfimed to Balance. |
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There's something wrong with the SMPPS pool. The current BTC round share is ~100,000 but no block is being listed as found. If we haven't found a block, it should be ~3,000,000.
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All GUIs should have the source posted, to make sure it isn't malicious. However, could it be possible to use applications offline, downloading recent block chains from a separate computer and transferring them to that? It wouldn't be possible to make transactions I assume but you could view received transactions, right?
This is just a GUI for the daemons, so it would depend on the daemon allowing you to do it. You can transfer the whole data folder, but I suspect you're talking about individual transactions and I don't think they support that. I'll look into it though. |
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Precisely what you said: Yes, if you stop mining and none of your shares end up within the (X-N, N] range then you get no reward. This is not a problem, it is a fact about the reward system.  How is not getting rewarded for my efforts not a problem? Would you aslo consider it not a problem if I hired you to do a job and then refused to pay you for the work? To me, it's a major problem and that's why I'll never use PPLNS. Do the math when the round then ends then. We would get paid the same amount but I would have done less work.
This is true but completely irrelevant to the issue of pool hopping.  How can that possibly be irrelevant? That's the whole point of pool hopping - to gain a higher reward than usual for the amount of work put in.  |
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Yes, if you stop mining and none of your shares end up within the (X-N, N] range then you get no reward. If there is one block in the range (X-N, N] you get 50/N BTC (assuming no transaction fee rewards and 0% fee), if there are two blocks in the range (X-N, N] you get 100/N BTC, and so on.
Surely you can see then, why I would never use such a system? No I don't. What is wrong with it? Precisely what you said: Yes, if you stop mining and none of your shares end up within the (X-N, N] range then you get no reward. If you look at the PPLNS stats page, you can see that the number of BTC shares this round is 2,140,994 (at the time of posting) and the difficulty is 1,468,195.430. If I start mining this pool now, then it's likely that all my shares will be within (X-N), therefore, I'll get paid a lot more for the work I put in than someone who has been mining since the beginning of the round. Reverse pool hopping actually seems pretty easy to me. If you start mining now then your chances of your shares being in the range (X-N, N] are exactly the same as they would be at the beginning of a round. The expected round length for the current round is precisely 2,140,994 + 1,468,195.430 = 3,609,189.43 shares (basic corollary of the lack-of-memory property) and it gets longer with every single non-block-generating share submitted. Suggesting that the round is close to an end because many shares have been submitted is like suggesting that a heads is due after flipping a fair coin five times and getting tails each time. Do the math when the round then ends then. We would get paid the same amount but I would have done less work. |
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Yes, if you stop mining and none of your shares end up within the (X-N, N] range then you get no reward. If there is one block in the range (X-N, N] you get 50/N BTC (assuming no transaction fee rewards and 0% fee), if there are two blocks in the range (X-N, N] you get 100/N BTC, and so on.
Surely you can see then, why I would never use such a system? Let's suppose we have a PPLNS pool with N = difficulty/2 (and assume difficulty is fixed for simplicity). The PPLNS pool here is a good real world example. The average number of shares to a round here is 2*N (because share difficulty is 1 here). Some rounds are much shorter and others are much longer but most are longer than N. It is not possible to hop this pool in the way you describe without some kind of time machine. To "reverse pool hop" you need to know when a round is going to end.
If you look at the PPLNS stats page, you can see that the number of BTC shares this round is 2,140,994 (at the time of posting) and the difficulty is 1,468,195.430. If I start mining this pool now, then it's likely that all my shares will be within (X-N), therefore, I'll get paid a lot more for the work I put in than someone who has been mining since the beginning of the round. Reverse pool hopping actually seems pretty easy to me. |
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Just letting you guys know there's been a few updates since I first posted.
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RyNinDaCleM was spot on with his analysis.
Say I decide I want to do some gaming, and I stop mining before N, I don't get any reward at all. PPLNS only makes sense for 24/7 miners. It's also vulnerable to reverse pool hopping. Say you and the pool hooper had the same hashrate, you could mine the whole round and only get the same reward as the pool hooper who mined the last half (assuming N = round shares/2). You do twice the work for the same reward.
What do you mean by "and I stop mining before N"? If you decide to stop for gaming then your shares don't disappear. Each share will generate funds for you for any and all blocks which are found by the pool during the pool's next N shares (whether or not you mine for this period is irrelevant). If the pool finds no blocks during the N shares following your submission then your share has failed to generate any BTC for you at all (again, whether or not you mined at the pool during this time is irrelevant). PPLNS means that when a block is found, the reward is split uniformly between the most recently submitted N shares. Such a reward system neither rewards nor punishes intermittent miners in terms of average income. In PPLNS, N is normally either constant or tied to difficulty, not to "round shares". If N were "round shares" then the reward system would suffer the usual pool hopping problem faced by proportional miners. When N is 1 the reward system is identical to solo mining (which also neither punishes nor rewards intermittent miners in terms of average income). Absolutely, this reward system is vulnerable to "reverse pool hopping". Shares at the end of a round are more valuable than shares at the beginning in general. If a hopper hops into the pool for the last N shares of each round then they are going to earn much more than a 24/7 miner or random intermittent miner. However, this strategy requires the ability to predict the future. : A pool accepts shares constantly. It assigns each share a number based on its order of arrival. It also decides on a number N, the 'look back constant'. Whenever a valid block is found at share X, the contributors of all prior shares in the range (X-N) exclusive to X inclusive are credited 50/N BTC. So, if I stop mining and none of my shares end up within the range (X-N) then I get no reward. I know N isn't tied to round shares, that was just for the example I used. Lets say N = difficulty/2. In order to reverse pool hop, all I need to do is find a pool whose round shares are greater than N. Basically the more shares past N the better. |
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PPLNS is geared for the 24/7 miner. He'd lose too much time invested by mining at last N shares! Realistically, he would be best off in SMPPS rather than prop since all shares are paid! In prop he will also lose some income since past shares would be worth less and less during the period he's not mining.
I don't see how PPLNS is "geared for the 24/7 miner" at all. Share variance is higher than with other methods but, with N as large as difficulty/2, the effect is not so bad. (Approximately: It is like comparing a $1 bill with a scratch card which has 1/4 chance of being worth $4.) Certainly, the expected income from either 24/7 or intermittent mining at 0% PPLNS is identical to that for 0% PPS. Average 0% PPS payout with no operator risk is one of the reasons I like this reward system. Shares submitted to a Prop or PPLNS pool become worth less and less with time regardless of whether or not you continue to mine. The average income per hour will be the same whether you mine 24/7 or mine intermittently (at random). If you don't want your shares to lose value with time then PPS is practically the way to go (SMPPS when the pool balance is positive is just as good). SMPPS is dangerous to use 24/7 because the reward system necessarily creates arbitrarily large pyramid schemes and, eventually, one will be big enough to kill the pool and any miners caught in it will lose big time. RyNinDaCleM was spot on with his analysis. Say I decide I want to do some gaming, and I stop mining before N, I don't get any reward at all. PPLNS only makes sense for 24/7 miners. It's also vulnerable to reverse pool hopping. Say you and the pool hooper had the same hashrate, you could mine the whole round and only get the same reward as the pool hooper who mined the last half (assuming N = round shares/2). You do twice the work for the same reward. |
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What's the "comment-to" for?
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You can already do this if I'm not misunderstanding something. sendfrom <fromaccount> <tonamecoinaddress> <amount> [minconf=1] [comment] [comment-to] sendmany <fromaccount> {address:amount,...} [minconf=1] [comment] sendtoaddress <namecoinaddress> <amount> [comment] [comment-to] You just need to use the daemon. I think I'll add it to my GUI tomorrow. |
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About those BTC bonuses, do they apply to all the pools or just the PPLNS pool and how come the NMC bonuses only apply to the PPLNS pool? As a gamer and part time miner, it's the only reward system I can't use. How about throwing some of those bonuses toward the SMPPS pool. I would have had an extra 15 NMC now. Come on man, you know we need it more than they do.  |
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Bad idea, if I mine my computer is very slow, I have to stop my other programs.
At the moment I'm doing some programming in Visual C# 2010 Express, I've got a few tabs open in Notepad++, I'm seeding a few torrents in uTorrent, I'm listening to some Pink Floyd in foobar2000, got my namecoin gui running and the namecoin deamon, and Firefox with a few tabs open. I'm still getting around 330 Mh/s with no slow down of my computer. I have noticed the slowdown your talking about though. I get it now and again when I visit certain websites, github for example. I just temporarily turn on on my workers off though and when I'm finished with that website, restart the broser and turn my second worker back on. Problem sorted. I can even watch video without any problem and still get 315 Mh/s. You just have to configure your system properly. |
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This sounds like a quick way to burn out your video card and all you'll get out of it is $5-10, if you're lucky.
Stick to gaming and let the professionals mine bitcoins.
Professionals? If you say so. Where do you think the knowledge and tools come from to overclock your GPUs? The real professionals are gamers. |
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you game at 1280x720, you poor person  Sometimes. I've got a monitor and a TV connected to my PC. If I'm lying in bed, I use the TV, otherwise the monitor. |
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I mine on my gaming PC. A 6870. I just overclock it when I want to mine, basically, whenever I'm not gaming, and reset it to stock when I want to game. It only takes a couple of seconds.  . |
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