@Paul Revere .. and I see it as moving forward with life. The environment has changed and new information is available. So, my opinions have changed. Just like our exchange has provided me with new information, that also has changed my opinions. That's just how life works.

I agree


This is an open forum. I'm sure most have me on ignore by now. I've never even bothered to register here until the Garza scam blew up. I really have a hard time seeing how I "thinking this is my person platform"? Wow?

You are oddly obsessed with this. If you want to call that an emotional response, that's fine. Internet communications are not perfect. And, yes, you can do what you want. I only came into this about 2 months ago and was beginning to think that maybe you had put money into the whole GAW thing, since I could certainly see how that would suck.

As far as the you asking the XPY folks about the blockchain shuffling, you've been clear that you're not into any conversation. That's fine. You've stated repeatedly that you now consider me a "Fucking Fool" so that is your opinion and I completely disagree. And, again you attack the family that you imagine I have. Perhaps you should have another drink.

Again, I don't agree... I do not think I'm a "Fucking Fool".. and I have a right to disagree with you on that point.

And, I'm pretty sure that there will never be a day when my children read this and that happens to be a sensitive point for me. So, it was fine the first time that you threw that out because you didn't know. But it is getting old. I have not attacked you, let alone your children. I've actually said I would like to hear you have a conversation with the XPY folks on the blockchain stuff. Yet, you feel compelled to attack me as a "fucking fool" because I answered a simple question about why the price might have changed. I asked you what were the provable lies, but the response is another personal attack on me.

Sorry, I do not agree with that statement. I feel that I am not a 'Fucking Fool'. But you go ahead and drink, you sound like you could use a drink

Hey, something we agree on.

obviously i disagree

Did you buy this XPY or hashlet stuff?
I don't think that I am "playing a fucking fool", so, again we disagree. No harm in that.
I've decided to not allow my children to learn to read. Illiteracy is the way of the internet and I want them to fit in.

I don't understand the extreme emotional response? It sounds clear that you are not willing to ask questions about the blockchain shuffling that you've noticed and no one else has done the work that you've done so they might not be comfortable asking those questions. Would also be interesting to what the 'provable' lies are?

I guess we will continue to disagree. No harm in that.

I disagree.

I went to the hangouts and listened to them answer questions
--ikeboy

Okay.. have to ask... is ikeboy a real account/person somewhere or some internet meme thing? 

I didn't understand if you were saying I was shilling or not.. if you were talking general shilling, I appologize.

I'm not going to go search the site because I really don't care THAT much about it. The ideas related to the site make sense and no one is complaining that it doesn't work. Also, I don't really care if anyone uses it or not. And, again, for everyone's purpose... I am not an expert and am just some stranger on the internet posting what I heard or read somewhere else. So, not too worried about 'credibility' since I'm not advising anyone to do anything except that if you want your questions answer, why not get them answered first hand.

As an example, I had to ask like ten times before I understood the hedgers... and they do make sense and they specifically need to be bought in BTC because they're a HEDGE... buyers are moving into the XPY as the hedge move, hence the name hedger.

Not sure what was disproved with a single click... I'm lost there.

First, if you're referring to me shilling... I don't think I claimed they were "good guys" I said they were not the same as Garza and are funny... and if my saying there are these hangouts available to ask questions is shilling, well... I don't think I ever implied it would increase in value, I said "if it increases, what's wrong with that?" I've also repeatedly said I'm not buying it and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone to buy it.

I wrote my understanding... I'm not an expert, not an investor, and not THAT into the coin XPY as long as they don't set bad technology precedence... the way to get the answers that anyone is looking for would be to to to one of those hangouts and ask directly, that way you're not relying on what some stranger on the internet (me) said about what some other stranger said.

If people want to say I'm drinking koolaid or what ever because I've changed my mind in response to changes in the environment combined with new information. That's fine. 100 years from now, no one will give a rat's patootie about all of this anyway so not gonna get my jimmies all rustled over it.

I would like to see Paul Revere ask his questions directly because I would like to understand what's going on with the blockchain stuff. But, if Paul Revere doesn't want to go and ask questions, that's his deal.

Well, at this point, the shine is off of XPY, so anyone buying now is buying on the current markets. Why they'd buy it, I don't know... maybe they're day traders?  BUT, they would not be buying because of a lie about a $20 floor. I bought QORA, does that mean I was victimized by some QORA bag holder? I find it interesting and wanted to buy some. I went to an exchange and put in an order. Now, if a bagholder wants their $15/coin back... how will that happen?  No one is going to pay that on a market anytime in the near future.

As far as the XPY price rising... what's wrong with that?  I sell shit occasionally... but given enough time and turning, town folks call it compost and rave about what it does for their gardens. I don't advertise it, just people hear about it through the grape vine. Am I ripping them off when they seek me out and give me $8 to throw a front loader bucket full of old shit into their truck bed? Now, if I sat there and said that was $1200 worth of oats and hay to produce that shit, do you think they'd fork over $1200?  No, they'd laugh at me and go on their way. As far as I can tell, there are no more false lies being told about XPY that I can tell, so if people want to go to the markets and buy it. That's their choice. One man's shit is another man's compost.

The basic xpy.io IS intended to tie up coins. They've said that publicly that there are a bunch of stakers(?) that will be setting a bunch of coin loose in June and they needed somewhere besides the markets for those coins to go. So, they're letting people put their coin into the prime controllers and get the 100% stake rate. NOW, if you're into XPY, that sounds like a viable option. And it's no different than a bank CD type of idea as far as I can tell. I don't think there is any fee at all to put coins in the basic xpy.io service. I guess you just sign up and transfer them in.

NOW, the xpy.io hedgers do have fees... again, to me the fees are too high on them and I don't see XPY going up enough to make them profitable, so not my thing. But, from a coin perspective it looks like an interesting product and I would bet you'll see other coins trying something similar because it brings more BTC into the coin. I don't know that there are any written terms on their site, I'm going off of conversations in the hangouts. If there aren't any terms, I agree those should be spelled out clearly on the website. I think I've been to xpy.io maybe once? maybe twice? I'm sorry, but I have no interest in buying their products, so not going to try to find a link on the site. I said they seem to be functional based on the lack of bitching about the site. I've also never been to paybase, but it seemed like weekly (daily?) there were people posting that they can't log on, can't deposit, can't withdraw... either no one is using xpy.io or they're not having any troubles because I don't see those kinds of posts about that site.


And, again... I'm not buying XPY and I certainly would not tell anyone to buy XPY. For transparency, I do have XPY that was given to me by multiple people, but I still haven't even synced the blockchain on my wallet, so it's not like they're doing a whole lot of anything.

And, as far as "expert in finance or economics or cryptography or software development."... really, very few alt-coins have those elements... opal is being run by a kid that sounds like he's a 13yo. If there are people out there that want to spend their money or their BTC on alt-coins run by strangers on the internet, that's their option. Go to one of those gofundme type sites, they're full of unqualified people selling pipe dreams. This is the internet as a whole. It's well known that XPY is a peercoin clone now... so... if you want to use that as a basis, then we need to start screaming about 90%+ of the alt coins out there. Or we could use the huge pre-mine... but that's ? 95%+ of the coins out there?

My issue is that for the sake of the idea of crypto currency as a whole, we need to focus on running rusty chainsaws up the ass of true scam artists and publicly shaming them out of the community. But, for the people who are having their whack at it and bump along how ever well they manage... that's part of the internet and part of the new global village market place where the big corporation don't run things any more. I live in the boonies... I like decentralization... so I'm willing to make room for the bumps if it keeps us heading toward a world where the government and big corporations don't control my life any more. But, that's just me. I can see others thinking differently.

On slack they've been posting that a bunch of his sites are coming down. I don't know if he quit paying his bill or what, but ordercoincard.com, the HT forum, and a couple others are
getting the old rm /* -rf treatment.

I don't see it that way... Stuart Fraser and Josh have a bunch of companies together... like nearly 10? running back to at least 2010.. Fraser is in no way a 'mark' for Josh. And if Fraser was willing to use his corporate identity to backup that 100 million dollar CAF lie, then it is a Cantor Fitzgerald issue too because it was Cantor Fitzgerald that lent any credibility to what Garza was saying. If any idiot off the internet started claiming that they had 100 million dollars lined up to invest in a new alt-coin, they would have been blown off as a bold faced liar because alt-coins make absolutely NO sense on any level what so ever as a financial investment. They make sense as a technology and as a community thing... but not as a financial investment and certainly not as a 'we're gonna take over global financing' shit like was claimed about paycoin.  EVERY clone-coin out there going for currency status rides like a leach on the back of BTC. What financial investor is going to put up millions for something so stupid without checking it out? Without having one of their tech savvy friends check it out? BUT, Garza had the Cantor Fitzgerald name behind him and that sold the scam. Without that name, Garza would have been laughed out of ever forum on the Internet (including reddit!).

So, my opinion is that Stuart was in no way a mark. Yes, his is not a bright man, but that doesn't qualify him as a mark. I think he knowingly hitched his wagon to Garza well over five years ago. Now, if that's because he's love struck or because he's that overwhelming stupid... it doesn't matter. Their AUK wireless had only a couple hundred unhappy customers... Fraser had to have read the articles that claimed it was a national company.. so he went along with the scam and he should be right next to Garza in the interrogation room.

Well, the wall of text was saying that they have open hangouts that anyone can join in on. I was trying to let people know they could do that and get questions answered without having to reveal who they are in real life, or even who they are over here. I was also trying to say that they don't shut stuff down like Garza did.

My opinion of the XPY folks has changed. (NOT Garza and NOT Cantor Fitzgerald) I've never really cared about the coin either way except that they don't do something stupid like fork to 'delete' coins or start doing a 'we hate him, so we'll make his coins useless' thing. Technology needs to stay pure and settle your social issues in social ways. Either get them prosecuted or chase them down with a pitchfork... but don't throw tech at a social based (bad actor thing) problem. NOW, had they done that, tried to turn a crypto into a social solution thing, you would hear me ranting to high heavens.

I understand that you might not want to hear their side and I don't fault you for that. But, in the end, there are a LOT of people who were directly damaged by this scam. Now, the survivors are joining together to try to make all those little strings of letters actually have some value. Can you blame them for that? Could you imagine what it would feel like to have plunked down $50k worth of anything (USD, BTC, ) for "coins" that are now worth maybe $15?  It has to make some of them physically ill. (I understand that for some of them, that's not even a weekend's play money... but for others, that has to be a serious amount of money).  Not only did they put up the money (say it was $50k).. but they had weeks believing that asshole and imagining that they were going to have any money problems solved in a significant way...

Then it all went to shit. Not just shit, but shit in the middle of the shit storm that was flying around the interwebz with everyone from all sides making claims and accusations about anything and everything and Garza, the one that talked them into it, still saying that everything was going to be great and that "if it were a scam, wouldn't he have run already?"... that is some f*d up shit he pulled.

So, yes... I guess you could say that I respect the survivors (who would probably be pissed to be called that) for trying to turn those little alphanumeric strings back into something of value. And, I'm willing to give them credit for putting out xpy.io that seems to be functional. I think the hedgers thing is a new approach to getting more BTC into the environment, so that would, theoretically, help increase the XPY price from an 'economics' point of view. But, if the price of XPY doesn't go up, they won't be selling too many of them.

TL/DR: I can respect that you don't respect them. I just have a different opinion.

That's so many levels of messed up.

I don't think it's been weeks has it?

Edit: so am trying to remember when I ever criticized "teamXPY" since I'm still not sure how all those break out. I did criticize church leaders being involved in the scam, but that wasn't a teamXPY thing... garza is a small group leader in his church as well. Even when whocares was first spinning up that online thing, I could see a logic in what he was doing because I give discounts to people who pay me in BTC for services. As far as the coin, it has always been an alt-coin... I'm pretty sure I've always felt that it can live or die just like all the rest of them. I'm pretty sure that my 'ax to grind' has always been against Garaza, Stuart Fraser of Cantor Fitzgerald, and... I've always felt like Rashab(?) was a victim. I did think Phil seemed sort of shady when he first came here with mineral, so I was posting the DNS info on mineral but he left quickly and changed his DNS from a hidden service right away, so I respected that he did something in a positive direction instead of going all Garza about it.

So, if I was criticizing "teamXPY" in the past, I must have changed my mind. For example, I don't think Phil is shady anymore. But, I still think this whole scam has been bad for crypto and that Garza is a complete ass that needs to live out his days in a cell (even though that won't happen). I have plenty of pitchforks and am more than willing to go on any Garza hunts because I would like to see him hounded completely out of crypto-anything. I still wouldn't advise anyone to buy XPY because I only buy alt-coins that have interesting technology (OR are CONs, since they're producing some funny stuff) so I never would have advised people to buy it anyway.


So, if you want to call that being turned?  That's your right. But, really it's just that I have new information and the situation itself has progressed from when Garza was running the show. I'm also working on memorializing Garza's stupidity so that it's in a form that easier to navigate than a 1900 page thread and (hopefully) has stronger SEO impact.

I think the BTC.com should be it's own spin off (thread)... I hate when they dump a bunch of the old characters, then hire a bunch of new ones and try to call it the same show... there needs to be some form of reality tv show etiquette followed here... else, how will i know which one to watch? It'll be like how CSI and Chicago PD always to cross overs... but they're still different shows.