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1  Local / Projektentwicklung / Bitcoin Betting - Dezentrale Sportwetten Börse. Wette anonym mit BTC / Ethereum on: November 17, 2024, 03:13:22 AM


Dieser Post soll Bitcoin Betting in diesem Forum ankündigen.

Bitcoin Betting ist eine dezentrale Sportwettenbörse. Das bedeutet, dass Gelder in einem sogenannten Smart Contract auf der Ethereum Blockchain gehalten werden. Es gibt keine zentralen Server, ein dezentrales Frontend  und keine Abfrage personenbezogener Daten.

Alle informationen können auf unserer Website gefunden werden:  https://bitcoin-betting.com/

Technische Details und mehr Hintergründe auf unserer Github Seite:  https://github.com/Fairlay/Bitcoin-Betting


Folgt uns auf X: https://x.com/_bitcoinbetting

Um die App zu benutzen, benötigen Sie eine Wallet  wie MetaMask oder WalletConnect:  https://app.bitcoin-betting.com/

In den News: https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-betting-is-launching-an-unstoppable-defi-app-for-sports-betting-and-prediction-markets-with-no-kyc/


Wir vergeben in diesem Forum gerne Einladungscodes an Nutzer mit einer gewissen Historie. Bitte DM an uns.  
2  Economy / Gambling / Re: Bitcoin Betting - DeFi Betting Exchange. No KYC, fully decentralized. ETH & BTC. on: November 17, 2024, 01:41:43 AM
https://github.com/Fairlay/Bitcoin-Betting/blob/main/Running%20a%20Node.md

When you download the files that will allow you to run the node you will find a default IP Ban List.  If your IP is in this list, for example an US based IP you cannot connect to a Node.   This is just a precautionary measure to protect Node operators because US authorities (lawfully or unlawfully is yet to be decided) targeted DeFi projects and protocols recently.
3  Economy / Gambling / Re: bitcoin-betting.com - DeFI Betting Exchange. No KYC, fully decentralized. on: November 14, 2024, 06:52:25 PM
Yes, freezing assets is impossible as on most "Blockchains".  However, still the same people that used to settle markets on Fairlay currently settle most markets on Bitcoin-Betting. So settlement for a given market is centralized.  But once the settlement is finalized - by default after 24h - it is impossible to confiscate funds.    

Before that, the on-hold balance concept from Fairlay is also used on Bitcoin Betting. That means that only the biggest win in any event is put on hold for 24h.   It is also possible to opt-out of this by paying some insurance fee. This was further refined with the launch of Bitcoin-Betting. The insurance fee is now dependent on the sport and league.  For example, major events have a very low insurance fee, while small E-sport events have a rather high one.



The assignment of the settler of a certain market is subject to the settings the market creator chooses.  

If you wanted, you could create the very same markets again on the platform with yourself as settler. No one could stop you doing that. The way we handle this case right now is, that a warning is displayed in the App, that the settler of the market is not known / trusted.  




If there is something you don't like about the interface, you can fork the App. It's just a huge Javascript file which you can change as you wish.  


4  Economy / Gambling / Re: bitcoin-betting.com - DeFI Betting Exchange. No KYC, fully decentralized. on: November 12, 2024, 07:37:10 PM
3. Invite-Only
As everything runs on a decentralized network, once invited it is not possible for us to freeze assets from users.  So we have to take some measures to not let bad actors in in the first place.  With Fairlay, some bad actors used to have several accounts and it was very hard to ban them.   With Bitcoin Betting everyone can easily see who was when invited by whom.

A real decentralized system is that we do not have to login with a username and password and connect our wallets to the site and gamble / make a bet. Also by using the invite only access, how is it possible that you do not freeze accounts ? Lets suppose a good person have a account on your site and he invites his friend who is not a good actor, and he misuse or violate any terms and conditions (or make multiple accounts), so you will not ban his account ?


  There is no password. Just your wallet, the same wallet that you use to interact with for example the Ethereum blockchain.


Very good question. Once invited it is not possible to freeze user assets. For a set time period, it is however possible to revoke an invite. Revoked accounts can only withdraw funds and not place orders. This is implemented on the protocol level.
5  Economy / Gambling / Re: bitcoin-betting.com - DeFI Betting Exchange. No KYC, fully decentralized. on: November 11, 2024, 06:19:37 PM
1. Thank you for the nice words.

Wouldn't call it a casino.  Rather a betting exchange with a sportsbook front-end.


2. Withdrawal fees.

There are none.  You make a withdrawal by interactiving with a smart contract and the fees for that vary. It can be 30c  or 3 USD - depending on the market situation.
But thanks for the feedback. This info will be added to the homepage.

3. Invite-Only

As everything runs on a decentralized network, once invited it is not possible for us to freeze assets from users.  So we have to take some measures to not let bad actors in in the first place.  With Fairlay, some bad actors used to have several accounts and it was very hard to ban them.   With Bitcoin Betting everyone can easily see who was when invited by whom.

More here: https://github.com/Fairlay/Bitcoin-Betting?tab=readme-ov-file#getting-access--and-referral-bonus-system
6  Economy / Gambling / Re: bitcoin-betting.com - DeFI Betting Exchange. No KYC, fully decentralized. on: November 11, 2024, 12:17:08 PM
Thanks for your feedback.

1. Three negative trust ratings:    they were all filed after a spontaneous rage post of user efialtis.     https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5498092.msg64156576#msg64156576

Please see our latest statement in the thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5498092.220.  We will try to get these three negative trust ratings removed.  

2. Withdrawal fees.    With the new platform, you can deposit or withdraw ETH or W(rapped)BTC via smart contract and all you ever pay are the Ethereum fees for calling the smart contract, which is usually around 2 USD. A lot of advantages with this solution:
- We don't hold custody of your funds
- There are no centralized servers necessary
- No operating costs
- No one can steal or confiscate these funds

3. Staying accessible
  Even if the entire team gets arrested / killed or goes awol, the platform will still stay online.  The interface is running on IPFS, so it cannot be taken down. No servers are required or permissions to access your funds. All it takes is just one Node, that you can connect to.  You are welcomed to run your own node. Instructions can be found on github.

 There are more and more DeFI prediction markets like this coming online. Polymarket and Kalshi are the most prominent. We are the biggest one with a professional approach towards Sports Betting.

4. LTC is no longer available. In fact, using Fairlay is disencouraged as it is much slower and harder to use.

5. Current volumes on the platform are around 2-5 BTC per day but expected to rise at least 3x within the following months.

6. Not all  market makers have yet switched to the new platform. But you should see the same or better odds than on Fairlay in most cases.

7  Economy / Gambling / Re: Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat on: November 11, 2024, 11:58:48 AM
To resolve the case:

   We have been in contact with the authorities about the case.

   Some first result of their work can be seen in this statement:

   https://www.palloliitto.fi/ajankohtaista/miesten-kakkosen-ja-kolmosen-ottelumanipulaatioepailyt-palloliiton-kurinpitoon

   We also have been asked not to release funds. 

   Ukrainian counterparty is no longer filing any claims and stopped contacting us - confirming that they have either been arrested or accepted that the case is not winnable for them.


8  Economy / Gambling / Re: bitcoin-betting.com - DeFI Betting Exchange. No KYC, fully decentralized. on: November 11, 2024, 04:31:20 AM
but with all the red tags on your name? i doubt that there will even 1 member here in bitcointalk that will trust this platform , sorry about that mate.maybe better to prove us first about your legitimacy before dealing.

Which red flags are you talking about?  All cases have been resolved.
9  Economy / Gambling / Bitcoin Betting - DeFi Betting Exchange. No KYC, fully decentralized. ETH & BTC. on: November 11, 2024, 12:45:49 AM


This is to announce bitcoin-betting.com in this forum.

Bitcoin Betting  is the successor of Fairlay.com. It is a fully decentralized Bitcoin Betting Exchange and Prediction Market. This means that funds are held in Smart Contracts, there are no central servers and no KYC or collection of any personal data.


All information about the site can be found here:  https://bitcoin-betting.com/

More technical details on our github page:  https://github.com/Fairlay/Bitcoin-Betting


Follow us on X: https://x.com/_bitcoinbetting

Access the DeFI App directly via https://app.bitcoin-betting.com/

In the news: https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-betting-is-launching-an-unstoppable-defi-app-for-sports-betting-and-prediction-markets-with-no-kyc/


We will hand out invites to established users of this forum.  Please dm us for an Invite-Code.

10  Economy / Gambling / Re: Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat on: June 11, 2024, 09:07:08 PM
We have made an inquiry about the match-fixing allegations with a competent authority and an investigation was started. Funds will not be released, nor any further information shared until these investigations are completed. This is standard procedure and trumps any potential arbitration process.  Thank you for your help!

On another note about the reactions so far (and this will be probably the last statement on this forum about this):

We are very sorry to see, that reputable members of this community like efialtis and others immediately take side of some random (potentially criminal) guy over a business, that has a 10-year track record of serving all customers well and fairly. There must be a lot of scammers among the crypto bookmakers to make you react like this. 

It reminds us of the degen1 case. We were also accused of stealing (6-figures) from an honest gambler by various reputable parties in the space and everyone was certain, that the only right thing to do was to pay degen1 out immediately.  We were not allowed to speak about this case back then because investigations were ongoing, but it turned out, that degen1 was indeed a criminal, who stole large amounts of money from various parties. All funds were ultimately handed over to US authorities and were hopefully used to compensate his victims.   

You may always reach us via email.
11  Economy / Gambling / Re: Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat on: June 05, 2024, 05:56:05 PM
We were trying to convince qualified people close to AskGamblers and SPR to decide on that matter but in the end it failed. We have further contacts  to start an official investigation into the matter. However this could take months or even a year to be completed - not what we were hoping for. So we refrain from it for now.  

We will do some further digging and share our findings. Please bear with us.


Just one arbitrator should be enough. So far, we would go for holydarkness, who was recommended to us first and signaled his willingness to participate.  Anyway, we are still investigating the matter and need a little bit more time...

12  Economy / Gambling / Re: Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat on: June 04, 2024, 09:08:28 PM
We need a little bit more time to collect more evidence and will post an update in 24 hours.
13  Economy / Gambling / Re: Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat on: June 04, 2024, 03:12:32 AM
Hi @holydarkness,

to answer your question from our Terms:

Users are forbidden to use FAIRLAY LLC platform for money laundering, betting fraud, match fixing, line manipulation or any other illegal activities.

FAIRLAY LLC reserves the right to refuse and to terminate any business relationship, and to cancel any operation of customers who do not comply with the requirements.

Sport markets (excluding horse racing) are settled according to the settlement rules of Pinnacle Sports LLC unless different rules are stated in the market description.   





So all settlement rules of Pinnacle Sports also apply, including provisions against  match fixing and similiar illegal activity.




Watching the videos of all matches we concluded, that at least two of the matches were fixed beyond all reasonable doubt and thus voided all wagers on these markets. We don't have to establish a link between newfish1 and some player.  It is sufficient to show, that the match was fixed.  Even bets from regular users, who bet on these markets by accident would be voided in that case. That is pretty much standard in the industry.  E-Sports matches are voided all the time because of suspicious activity for all users betting on it, though there is not always hard proof.

  




We were contacted by another party who was working for a Betting Integrity Unit and hopefully can help us find the best arbitrator with the necessary experience.






14  Economy / Gambling / Re: Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat on: June 02, 2024, 11:22:27 PM
@holeydarnkness


We tagged the account as highly suspicious



THIS
if its highly suspicious already
why u are waiting that he won more to dot this
u could just suspend his account at the moment u tagged him as highly suspicious




Just for clarification. All this happened on the same day. Tagged the account and blocked it, because the activity looked highly suspicious.  Most of the incriminating facts we mentioned earlier (including user's nationality, nationality of the team's players , former allegations against these teams, footage)  we were only discovering later that day.   And we rarely block accounts.  Anyway, we will wait for arbitrator's decision and will follow suit.
15  Economy / Gambling / Re: Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat on: June 02, 2024, 11:13:06 PM

The market maker / counterparty in this bet  has actually hedged the bet we learnt, so he does not have to be compensated if arbitrator decides so.


i ask for the nth time,

is the market maker in these bets Pinnacle ?

No
16  Economy / Gambling / Re: Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat on: June 02, 2024, 03:11:05 AM
@holeydarnkness

We discovered the account in a routine check. No other bookmaker has voided these bets as far as we know. We only heard/read, that some of these matches were regarded highly suspicous. But as there was no hard proof, they were graded.

We tagged the account as highly suspicious before we even discovered that the account actually belongs to an Ukrainian individual and that these players, who lost the match seemingly on purpose were also Ukrainian.

The market maker / counterparty in this bet  has actually hedged the bet we learnt, so he does not have to be compensated if arbitrator decides so. It would also be acceptable for us and the market maker, if we donated the 799mBTC to charity.  Just giving it back to the alleged criminal involved in match-fixing would be the wrong thing to do.


@efialtis

We only live off the commission. Our only incentive here is to keep our site clean and send a clear message to all scammers. That's also why our sites are invite-only.


The whole betting world would be better off, if 99.9% likelihood  that a certain user is a scammer would be sufficient to confiscate funds and send it to charity.  100% proof is often difficult to achieve.  

All things combined, we see a > 99.9% likelihood, that @newfish1 is somehow involved in betting fraud.



And we are still looking for an arbitrator.  It can be anyone with some online reputation in the sector. We reached out to Sportsbookreview. AskGamblers unfortunately refused.

If you are interested, please apply via vip@fairlay.com or in this thread.
17  Economy / Gambling / Re: Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat on: June 01, 2024, 11:26:26 AM
We are still looking for an arbitrator and are in contact with AskGamblers.com and others.    If you have further suggestions for parties that resolve these cases in a quick manner, please share them with us! Thanks a lot!

Here again a full betting history of the user

Page 1 / All bets won

Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.259   Ilves Kissat +4.0   98.99   05/19/2024 12:18   124.68   05/19/2024 12:44
Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.519   Ilves Kissat +4.0   150.00   05/19/2024 12:17   227.96   05/19/2024 12:44
Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.169   Ilves Kissat +3.75   149.99   05/19/2024 12:16   175.43   05/19/2024 12:44
Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.209   Ilves Kissat +3.75   150.00   05/19/2024 12:15   181.37   05/19/2024 12:44
Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.639   Ilves Kissat +4.0   150.00   05/19/2024 12:15   245.90   05/19/2024 12:44
Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.769   Ilves Kissat +4.0   100.00   05/19/2024 12:13   176.99   05/19/2024 12:44
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   2.069   Centro Limoeirense +5.5   49.65   05/18/2024 13:25   53.11   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   1.653   Centro Limoeirense +5.0   50.00   05/18/2024 13:25   32.67   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   1.892   Centro Limoeirense +5.25   49.00   05/18/2024 13:24   43.75   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   2.089   Centro Limoeirense +5.5   49.67   05/18/2024 13:24   54.11   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   1.909   Centro Limoeirense +5.25   49.99   05/18/2024 13:24   45.45   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   2.179   Centro Limoeirense +5.5   74.70   05/18/2024 13:23   88.10   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   2.019   Centro Limoeirense +5.25   50.00   05/18/2024 13:21   50.96   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   1.787   Centro Limoeirense +5.0   50.00   05/18/2024 13:21   39.37   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   2.618   Centro Limoeirense +4.25   74.22   05/18/2024 13:17   120.11   05/18/2024 13:50
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   1.990   Botafogo FC SP -2.5   70.00   05/17/2024 18:42   69.30   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.790   Botafogo FC SP -3.0   70.00   05/17/2024 18:41   125.30   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.730   Botafogo FC SP -3.0   70.00   05/17/2024 18:41   121.10   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   1.917   Botafogo FC SP -2.5   80.00   05/17/2024 18:40   73.36   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.490   Botafogo FC SP -3.0   70.00   05/17/2024 18:40   104.30   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.180   Botafogo FC SP -2.75   70.00   05/17/2024 18:40   82.60   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.070   Botafogo FC SP -2.5   74.00   05/17/2024 18:39   79.18   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.760   Botafogo FC SP -3.0   59.00   05/17/2024 18:38   103.84   05/17/2024 19:11
FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.860   FC Kiffen -4.5   100.00   05/12/2024 13:27   186.00   05/12/2024 13:55
FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.840   FC Kiffen -4.5   100.00   05/12/2024 13:27   184.00   05/12/2024 13:55


Page 2   as screenshot as some bets are lost

https://imgur.com/a/OmcQ2dB


18  Economy / Gambling / Re: Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat on: May 29, 2024, 02:47:35 PM

@newfish1 wouid you agree  to have askgamblers.com as arbitrator in this case?

Further questions regarding your account.    



Why have you bet mainly on basketball in 2019, not used your account for years and now switched to soccer all of the sudden with these high amounts in these specific leagues?

Why didn't you do any other significant bets before?  

This is not the behaviour  we see from any other user.  


Do you have accounts under your name at other bookmakers and would you feel comfortable sharing them and your betting history there?

19  Economy / Gambling / Re: Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat on: May 29, 2024, 01:57:12 PM
As I mentioned in my first message (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5498092.msg64141482#msg64141482), I can only speak for myself and present facts proving my actions were not illegal or even not wrong according to Fairlay's terms and conditions.

Fairlay says that they believe many matches where i had bets on were "fixed".

I am not a member of any football federation, I am also not a member of any law enforcing agency, that is why I can not be 100% sure any game was or was not "fixed".

That is why I can only share with you some of my observations concerning these games.

The first one, and the most obvious - FC Futura

Is one of the main evils in Fairlay's opinion.

I have bets on 3 games with FC Futura involved. 1 game with very big profit (1.1 BTC), and 2 games with very very small profit where the main bets were actually a push (a situation where the result of my bet is a "draw", where I win 0 and lose 0 on a certain bet).

But during the same time period this same team had other games, and the results of those games are 

3-7 https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2024/04/20/finland/kakkonen/futura/pepo/4323156/

1-6 https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2024/05/25/finland/kakkonen/futura/fc-reipas/4323181/

my point is, if I was "fixing" these games, why didn't I try to make money here also? To me the answer is obvious, this team Futura, is just a bad team, they just keep conceding goals with high volume.

They are in last place in their division, 4 points from 7 games, -14 goal difference. That says a lot.

Also, check this out

1-4 https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2023/07/09/finland/kakkonen/futura/finland-nurmijarven-jalkapalloseura/4032703/

0-3 https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2023/07/15/finland/kakkonen/futura/fc-reipas/4032709/

1-6 https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2023/07/22/finland/kakkonen/pepo/futura/4032714/

0-5 https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2023/07/29/finland/kakkonen/futura/pk-keski-uusimaa-kerava/4032720/

0-5 https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2023/08/05/finland/kakkonen/jippo/futura/4032724/

this is their 5 games in a row during last season, and just before those games they had these

1-6 https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2023/05/18/finland/kakkonen/pk-35-ry/futura/4032669/

1-5 https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2023/05/31/finland/suomen-cup/pallo-iirot/futura/4075684/

And Fairlay says that 1-6 they lost on May 12th, a match where i made the most profit is suspicious. For me, it looks like a normal result for this Futura team, especially against one of the best teams in their division.

In their post Fairlay made a big emphasis on the fact that there are many Ukrainian players in FC Futura, and they also mentioned that I am Ukrainian. Fairlay was implying that I had a good opportunity to "fix" the result of Futura's games, because many of the players are the same nationality as I am.

I find these comments and allegations very very concerning, due to these facts:

1. Earlier I listed 7 matches (with proof links) of FC Futura just last season where they lost by big margins (most common 1-6, 0-5, exactly as the match where I won my bets), its is very easy to see that in those matches no Ukrainian players have participated

2. Some of the other allegedly "fixed" games where I have made most money were from the leagues of Brazil and Colombia, for example. No Ukrainian players participated in them.

So why is Fairlay using these incriminations because I am Ukrainian Huh

I admire the Fairlay platform and the whole idea, I think it is very well thought of and made. It is evidently made by IT and Crypto specialists because some of the comments they made in their post about a sport Football are just funny.

Let's look at the video highlights they noted as "prove" of my wrongdoings:
1. 16th minute – FC FUTURA player Bazhan getting a direct red card for unnecessary foul (1:35 in highlights)
well, this one is actually proves that my bet was a good one, as, as posted by Fairlay, i have made my bets after the red card with the odds provided by bookmakers. A Ukrainian betting against a team after a Ukrainian gets a red card ? But according to how bookmakers work, odds are already adjusted after a red card. Everything is correct here Wink

2. 25th minute – FC FUTURA player Moyseev getting a yellow card for unnecessary foul (2:05 in highlights)what is this about? A yellow card in football doesn't mean anything and the resulting free kick evidently did not lead to any danger. If he wanted to "fix" the game, why didn't he get a second yellow card to be ejected? Why post here a simple foul which resulted in no danger and no serious punishment? Just because he is Ukrainian?

3. 29th minute – FC FUTURA player Sinitsyn scoring a rather clumsy own goal (2:25 in highlights) and Also, FC FUTURA goalkeeper Kazakov was not putting much effort in doing his job.
its football, its normal, especially considering this is 3-4-5th Divisions in Finland, these are amateurs. Take a look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMS36VyuY1A , all fixed by Ukrainians ?

Seriously, I don't see a single solid piece of evidence that there was anything wrong here. Of course Fairlay can say that FC Futura was fixing games last year also (actually if they check Futura's results from even earlier seasons, they would see the same pattern), but my question is then - Why is FC Futura still playing in the Finland Football Federation sanctioned official tournament. Where there were no arrests, no fines, no investigation, nothing ?

A lot of text from Fairlay, a lot of numbers (some of which are altered in their favor, as proven in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5498092.msg64141508#msg64141508), a lot of links, videos.

But those are all about nothing, just placeholders ...

Thanks for your post and valid points and keeping the discussion civilized despite being accused.  We are still looking for a reputable arbitrator to settle this between us.   
20  Economy / Gambling / Re: FAIRLAY - SPORTS BETTING for experts - highest liquidity, provably best odds on: May 29, 2024, 12:17:19 AM
Case is moved to a seperate thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5498092.0

please feel free to post your comments there. @newfish1
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