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1  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Andreas Antonopoulos about censorship on bitcointalk and reddit on: September 18, 2015, 10:51:34 AM
Here's a TL;DL transcription:
Quote from: Andreas Antonopoulos
One of the things that came out of this, which I've found very disappointing. Is that one of the moderators of Reddit, who also is the moderator of bitcointalk.org and is participating in moderation of bitcoin.org and the Wiki. Has taken a stance where he has excluded or censored all conversation about XT.

I think that's really an example how unhealthy the governance structure has become and to me the Reddit platform as result has really deteriorated badly. It's not a healthy place to have a debate. Between the moderators not doing anything about the trolling and doing a lot about censorship instead of focusing on the trolling...I'm out.

+1
2  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin XT Post Mortem - Group Discussion on: September 18, 2015, 09:52:48 AM
This:
Quote
<theymos> You must be naive if you think it'll have no effect. I've moderated forums since long before Bitcoin (some quite large), and I know how moderation affects people. Long-term, banning XT from /r/Bitcoin will hurt XT's chances to hijack Bitcoin. There's still a chance, but it's smaller. (This is improved by the simultaneous action on bitcointalk.org, bitcoin.it, and bitcoin.org)

<theymos> Not in Bitcoin itself, but I do have power over certain centralized websites, which I've decided to use for the benefit of Bitcoin as a whole (as best I can).
http://bitco.in/forum/threads/gold-collapsing-bitcoin-up.16/page-26

I have completely opposite view of what is beneficial to Bitcoin (Hint: open discussion and inclusiveness). After reading above I think it's better for me to move elsewhere, where it's possible to discuss openly without a big brother actively warping discussion to his own ends. (Which theymos proudly admits here)

Have fun in your little North Korea.
3  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BREAKING: Atlanta based Bitcoin giant BitPay hacked for nearly $2,000,000! on: September 17, 2015, 01:47:56 PM
Yes, that is a social engineering attack, not a hack.

E-mail is not secure, everyone knows it. You should always verify important matters over some more secure medium, preferably multiple ones. Even a phone call would have been enough to prevent this.
4  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What happens now that BitcoinXT is essentially dead on: September 17, 2015, 01:38:32 PM
Due to MH's long track record of proposing really bad ideas, followed by his latest attempt to force them with both a code fork and a protocol fork with his pipe dream of taking over the code running Bitcoin

That is false and you know it.

People are free to choose. Can you explain to me how is that in any way forcing?
If people don't like his code, then fine. They don't run it and that's it.

You fail to see that absolutely anyone is allowed to fork bitcoin. You, me, your neighbours dog. It's not even a question of debate. It's a hard irrefutable fact. The code is there on GitHub, free to fork and in the end its popularity among the network decides if that fork becomes "the Bitcoin".

Why do you guys have to turn everything into some ridicilous ad-hominems. It sounds like some poor tabloid journalism. It's like people discussing if Snowden/Assagne/Manning is naive/narcistic/criminal/gay/rapist or not instead of discussing the data they have presented us with, which is the only thing that matter. It's the same here. Personalities are irrelevant.

The code is the only thing that matters and people can choose, now and forever, like it or not.
5  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What features of Bitcoin would you never give up? on: September 17, 2015, 01:07:38 PM
Let's imagine that all the Bitcoin devs were arrested by a tyrannical government or bought by an evil mega-corp and forced to change a fundamental aspect of Bitcoin.

Open source doesn't work like that. The code is OSS and anyone is able to modify it and fork it. Current developers (be it Core, XT or whatever) have no more control of it than anyone else. In the end it's always the network that decides. The control is decentralized and collective.

Only way that some goverment could have it's way is if majority of network accepted it or stubbornly kept running a client that is under govt. control. But at any time they would be free to choose otherwise.
6  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: block size limit poll on: September 16, 2015, 07:25:48 PM
interesting,

i'm currently syncing myself a full node to test this out myself.
Worst thing about synching is that CPU usage. I swear I could have fried eggs on my computer case while it was doing it. Had to actually open the balcony door as I feared it would overheat and shut itself down.

Seems like this bandwidth usage varies a lot. Those numbers for 31 connections were BS as I'm getting more with 20 now. (had some jumps to 25 kB/s) also updated the snippet with with 15-16 connections in previous post.

Maybe I should write a script and let it run for few hours to count averages with connections fixed to some value (I guess this can be set in config file.)

It would give a better idea of the bandwidth needs. I just have to remember not to download any pron while I'm at it. Smiley
Cheesy

yup, i'll try something like that too.

Number of max connections can be set in ~/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf:
Code:
# Maximum number of inbound+outbound connections.
maxconnections=20

If you are behind NAT it will only use 8 outbound connections unless you open/forward a port (TCP 8333) on your router for it.
7  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: block size limit poll on: September 16, 2015, 06:54:23 PM
interesting,

i'm currently syncing myself a full node to test this out myself.
Worst thing about synching is that CPU usage. I swear I could have fried eggs on my computer case while it was doing it. Had to actually open the balcony door as I feared it would overheat and shut itself down.

Seems like this bandwidth usage varies a lot. Those numbers for 31 connections were BS as I'm getting more with 20 now. (had some jumps to 25 kB/s) also updated the snippet with with 15-16 connections in previous post.

Maybe I should write a script and let it run for few hours to count averages with connections fixed to some value (I guess this can be set in config file.)

It would give a better idea of the bandwidth needs. I just have to remember not to download any pron while I'm at it. Smiley
8  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: block size limit poll on: September 16, 2015, 06:04:39 PM
home full nodes are already pushing limits, its not hard to argue that a slow increase in blocksize is necessary, but how slow? let demand determine that...


I don't agree with this. It would be true only if average user runs 90s 56k modem.
Even 1 Mb internet connection works fine. (Though initial sync would take few days, but you only need to do that once.)

the data is currently redundantly received and transmitted again and again.
run a full node yourself and get back to me.

I'm running one. Currently 31 connections, 5.5 kB/s down 9.2 kB/s up.

[edit] Killed the node while fiddling with it...so now only 15 connections.  Anyway, here's some more numbers.
Code:
Every 10.0s: bitcoin-cli getinfo            Wed Sep 16 21:21:33 2015

{
    "version" : 110000,
    "protocolversion" : 70010,
    "blocks" : 374827,
    "timeoffset" : -1,
    "connections" : 15,
    "proxy" : "",
    "difficulty" : 56957648455.01000977,
    "testnet" : false,
    "relayfee" : 0.00001000,
    "errors" : ""
}

5 snapshots from download and upload bandwidth:
Code:
$ for i in {1..5}; do awk '{if(l1){print ($2-l1)/1024"kB/s",($10-l2)/1024"kB/s"} else{l1=$2; l2=$10;}}' <(grep wlan0 /proc/net/dev) <(sleep 1; grep wlan0 /proc/net/dev); sleep 1; done
2.47266kB/s 9.90723kB/s
5.45605kB/s 10.3809kB/s
0.604492kB/s 0.650391kB/s
7.7959kB/s 8.41016kB/s
3.51953kB/s 10.4092kB/s
9  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: block size limit poll on: September 16, 2015, 05:49:30 PM
home full nodes are already pushing limits, its not hard to argue that a slow increase in blocksize is necessary, but how slow? let demand determine that...


I don't agree with this. It would be true only if average user runs 90s 56k modem.
Even 1 Mb internet connection works fine. (Though initial sync would take few days, but you only need to do that once.)

My opinion about Chinese nodes (which could take forever to sync due to great firewall) is that bitcoin shouldn't be technically limited due to Chinese government actions. Almost anyone in western countries would be abole to handle full 32 MB nodes right now. Even without a hard limit it would take years before blocks grow that large.
10  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What happens now that BitcoinXT is essentially dead on: September 16, 2015, 10:35:21 AM
lol that argument isn't worth having. Not least because it gives Andresen and Hearn an opportunity to present themselves as the "middle ground" (between lunacy and genocide lol).

Funny thing is that Andresen would probably support no limit rather than BIP 101. Smiley

Quote from: Gavin Adresen
In my heart of hearts, I think everything would be just fine if the block limit was completely eliminated. I think actually nothing bad would happen.
11  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What happens now that BitcoinXT is essentially dead on: September 16, 2015, 10:28:02 AM
Quote
What happens now that BitcoinXT is essentially dead

Core devs won't agree with each other about the scaling proposals (because they have different goals) and Wladimir doesn't make the choice (if such is against his principles), thus there is an eternal lock-up on the issue and they'll move to work on other more interesting issues.

The average transaction rate will just level out at about 0.5 MB/block or half of the current blocksize limit (like it did when majority had 250, 500 and 750kB soft limits).  Some players in the economy will just leave to another projects or quit as they lose their confidence in Bitcoin's ability to grow, which in turn causes price to start trending down. There will be other forks as people get uneasy about about profits and growth getting wasted and Bitcoin will survive.

Really? Well.. no one knows.
12  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What happens now that BitcoinXT is essentially dead on: September 16, 2015, 09:49:47 AM
Btw. there's now another fork called Bitcoin Unlimited or (Bitcoin U) with no blocksize limit. I just saw it announced on reddit, but can't find the thread anymore (maybe it got deleted).
13  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Where is my payment? on: September 16, 2015, 12:08:06 AM
Simple answer: It is most probable that Cloudmining.website paid too little of a fee.

So, why blockchain.info has removed it and why others have kept it ? Will it ever get confirmed ? If yes, when ?
I think 48h is max. If it's not confirmed by then you should tell CloudMining to resend it. (Maybe with higher fee)
14  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Thanks to people who support 1-2 MB blocks - great idea u fools... on: September 15, 2015, 11:38:13 PM
pruning is not the same as a checkpoint which is what Adam proposed. either way it still has to sync entirely as you've mentioned so:

Assuming yearly 20% increase blockchain size & 10% reduction in bandwidth costs, after 15-20 years no new nodes can enter system except maybe huge datacenter operations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgjrS-BPWDQ&feature=youtu.be&t=7331

Ok, I must have misunderstood.

How would checkpoints work? (I have no clue)

Does this checkpoint basically hold a checksum of all previous transactions confirming that everything up to this point is true. If network has a checkpoint in it's blockchain (the nodes agree upon it) and you start building on it without validating the whole chain before the checkpoint, then what's the problem?
15  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Thanks to people who support 1-2 MB blocks - great idea u fools... on: September 15, 2015, 10:58:42 PM
which defeats the whole purpose of Bitcoin that you should trust no one to validate the entirety of your coins history
That is not true.

A pruned node downloads and validates the whole history since the genesis block. (Sync is identical to a normal node) It simply doesn't save it all to disk.
16  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Montreal scaling Bitcoin workshop recap. on: September 14, 2015, 06:16:41 PM
If the market wants to be at Q*, but the production quota is forcing it to be at Qmax, what can a group do to continue to enforce the production quota against the will of the market?  How can the invisible hand be restrained?

If deadweight loss becomes large enough it forms a majority that will change the protocol as needed.
If not, then part of economy will exit the market.
17  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Montreal scaling Bitcoin workshop recap. on: September 14, 2015, 06:08:15 PM
Why isn't Morning Day 1 video on youtube?
18  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 2 minute Google Forms survey: your opinions on Core vs XT on: September 14, 2015, 06:02:31 PM
I don't think this Core vs XT setup is constructive at all.

We need to have them both. (and hopefully more)
19  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What is the best block size limit? on: September 14, 2015, 04:29:22 PM
I think block sizes should be increased as & when it is required. Maybe 2MB for a while & then when the network dictates it increase it again to 4MB & so on.

I think it's ridiculous to be thinking about 8MB & 20MB blocks now.

This creates a chicken and egg problem. Large projects utilizing blockchain are not made because there is no room and the limit is not raised because blocks are not filled to limit.  There simply needs to be enough headroom and a clear schedule for predictability.

Jeff Garzik puts it very well here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgjrS-BPWDQ&feature=youtu.be&t=12667


My personal opinion is that a blocksize limit is not needed. Simple soft limit set in client config file would be enough. (like 250kB/500kB/750kB soft limits before). You can see from blocksize history that most people just use the default value and the transaction rate increases whenever a new client that ups the default value is released.

Before this schism most of people on BCT didn't even have a clue that a blocksize limit existed. But given how strong feelings it causes now I'd be happy to go with initial 8 MB limit with a predictable schedule. (BIP 101) I just think anything too close to actual blocksize will stifle and slow down the growth of Bitcoin.
20  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Montreal scaling Bitcoin workshop recap. on: September 14, 2015, 04:11:13 PM
Well, I think it has something more to do with Peter R being a skilled and serial manipulator of basic facts, in order to bring about a corporate takeover of the Bitcoin network.

I don't like him either, for those reasons.

BTW, can't help but be reminded of bitcointalk user Elwar's description of how to avoid potential espionage agents at public meetups.... Peter R seems very keen to put names to faces and also appears to be unusually athletic for a computer science geek....

So now everyone who has arguments supporting implementations other than Core is a secret service agent working in some hideous plan to destroy Bitcoin?
First it was Gavin and Hearn, and now even Peter R is one of them. Do you really believe this? Huh
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