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"Allergic to false promises."
Gizfreak, does that mean you are done with nokoin now?
You bet. I mostly give a sound plan the benefit of the doubt. Well the doubt just won  hey Gizfreak, I thought you were into Neucoin. What happened? |
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This is an interesting reply: I keep seeing people complaining about the qt wallet, which I really don't get as its clear that they deliberately put out a very basic desktop wallet because they really don't want people to use it, They've said enough times that the online wallet is the main one and that's what they expect people to use. If you choose to use the other wallet then that's fine, but why complain about it not having all fancy features when they've clearly said that all the features, design work etc will go to the online wallet?
I agree about the delayed block explorer and lack of communication though.http://forum.neucoin.org/t/cutting-my-loses-im-out/1939/4He doesn't even think about questioning why they want that people don't manage their own money, but bind it in a so called growth account that will give them nothing if they would have to withdraw one day too early. It's really interesting that some people don't see the intention behind - quite apart from some other red flags. It's proof-of-stake. Anyone mining has to lock up their coins until they mine a block and get the reward. That's just how proof-of-stake works. If you pull out before you mine a block, you don't get any mining rewards. Same thing with these growth accounts, if you pull out early you only get your stake back but no mining rewards. BUT - anyone who knows how to mine can and should use the QT miner and mine all they want. The growth accounts are not for people who know how to mine. They are a turnkey alternative for the facebook masses who have never even heard of "cryptocurrency" and would never ever have mined otherwise. It's just adding more people to the mix, new people who would never have participated otherwise - it's not expecting pro miners to use growth accounts. There's no trick - just two different products for two different segments. And those of us who believe in neucoin think that making it user-friendly so that new people start to participate is crucial for mainstream adoption. And that mainstream adoption is crucial for a cryptocurrency to be viable. |
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It's the whole proposition of understanding what cryptocurrency is, grasping the concept of the blockchain and mining and then downloading a client and staking and all that - it's just not something that any mainstream consumer will ever do. That's not the way more mainstream users will come onboard, it just isn't.
I am not talking about tech details, this really is for just a few, like it always was. There are clients that offer great simplicity for inexperienced users - and I would prefer them 1000 times over a "Facebook wallet". What you are thinking is dangerous. You want to drag people to "like" a coin (any coin, this is not about this one in particular) for all the wrong reasons. Despite what I believe for this one, you have to let time do its job and people will turn to cryptocurrencies on their own. There are so many advantages and, practically, no disadvantages in doing so. Read a very simple article that states the facts in an excellent way: http://cointelegraph.com/news/115020/people-are-just-too-stupid-to-use-bitcoin-right-nowPeople need to be educated and choose cryptocurrencies over traditional "money" for litarally thousands of reasons I certainly respect that point of view. Good articles, both of them. Important points. That said, I think that if a games and tipping oriented microcrypto like Neucoin were to get serious traction with mainstream users, that it wouldn't pose that kind of danger. On the contrary, I think that it would help to introduce the masses to the possibilities of cryptocurrency and benefit blockchain technology at large. |
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And IMO, Neucoin for the casual, game-playing, selfie-liking, tipping facebook masses.
Have you no honor? Do you seriously want to publicly display your greed and incompetence to drag further ingenuous readers down into perdition just to enrich yourself? Oh, just stop it. Drama queen. |
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Hmmmm.... Facebook masses don't give a flying.... duck about crypto, they only care how many "likes" this selfie they took with their brand new iPhone is getting
And, since you don't belong to the Facebook mainstream, who "has never even heard of cryptocurrency", how the duck do you know what is pretty great for them?
drag... drop... multiply....
damn, it is too complicated, get my Visa card and let's get over it
Face the facts: the average FB user doesn't care about anonymity, privacy or security, they have given up a long time ago - otherwise they wouldn't be using social media, Chrome, Google or Windows 10
They don't give a damn about decentralization, dodging bank cartels and their unethical practices etc etc etc...
My point exactly. The facebook masses are different and want different things. Like it or not, but without mass adoption cryptocurrency will remain a niche phenomenon. Whichever coin gets the most users will win. I believe that the future of Crypto won't be just about one or two projects. There will be several, maybe ten great projects for different purposes. One will be anonymity and that won't be the Crypto with mass-user-adoption but it will be huge. So, Anon-projects are still interesting but unpredictable. I see Dash and BTCD as most promising, but nobody knows. Another one could be what Neucoin wants to be. But it won't be a project with 100% interest and 97% premine and a a few early adopters complaining about the tech. And if you talk about Facebook-User and the growth account. There is maybe a contradiction. Because if people would use it to tip, they won't store it in an account they aren't able to touch if they want their interest. Another problem is, even if Neucoin would be a better project: Facebook has absolutely no need to implement a project to make the few owners rich. If Zuckerberg wants something like that he can develop it in a short timeframe. Neucoin is not a real decentralized Cryptocurrency. It's highly centralized. By the way: There is a project I've just found out and read about it the last 20 hours or something like that. Factom... it has it all what Neucoin just claims to have. It's not with a focus on tipping, but on Blockchain-Application... build on the BTC-Blockchain but with it's own currency Factoids. The most interesting project I've seen so far. Very smart... also unpredictable, but also with a huge team behind it and every aspect I understand so far is really innovative. Like Ethereum build on Bitcoin. And Ethereum itself... the idea, could be change Crypto in general. I'm not sure about it as an Investment, but the idea is big. And there are several other projects... I don't see any chance for Neucoin and I don't say that to write it down. It's just what I think about it. I believe that the future of Crypto won't be just about one or two projects. There will be several, maybe ten great projects for different purposes. One will be anonymity and that won't be the Crypto with mass-user-adoption but it will be huge. So, Anon-projects are still interesting but unpredictable. I see Dash and BTCD as most promising, but nobody knows.
Another one could be what Neucoin wants to be. But it won't be a project with 100% interest and 97% premine and a a few early adopters complaining about the tech. And if you talk about Facebook-User and the growth account. There is maybe a contradiction. Because if people would use it to tip, they won't store it in an account they aren't able to touch if they want their interest. Another problem is, even if Neucoin would be a better project: Facebook has absolutely no need to implement a project to make the few owners rich. If Zuckerberg wants something like that he can develop it in a short timeframe. Neucoin is not a real decentralized Cryptocurrency. It's highly centralized.
By the way: There is a project I've just found out and read about it the last 20 hours or something like that. Factom... it has it all what Neucoin just claims to have. It's not with a focus on tipping, but on Blockchain-Application... build on the BTC-Blockchain but with it's own currency Factoids. The most interesting project I've seen so far. Very smart... also unpredictable, but also with a huge team behind it and every aspect I understand so far is really innovative. Like Ethereum build on Bitcoin.
And Ethereum itself... the idea, could be change Crypto in general. I'm not sure about it as an Investment, but the idea is big.
And there are several other projects... I don't see any chance for Neucoin and I don't say that to write it down. It's just what I think about it.
I agree with that. Definitely there will be several projects for different purposes. Maybe Dash for super anonymity. Ethereum for sure, if they ever get to realize the vision (Vitalik's last post, https://blog.ethereum.org/2015/09/28/the-evolution-of-ethereum/, sounded like the foundation is out of money and now it's all up to the "community"). And IMO, Neucoin for the casual, game-playing, selfie-liking, tipping facebook masses. It doesn't matter that some hardcore miners don't like the standard QT client. And it doesn't take Zuckerberg's implementation or even approval to get something going on facebook. I've read all the neucoin material and I've seen the online wallet. Hell, I've even tried the growth account! And there's something to it. Something that feels more web 3.0 than crypto. If they can get the games integration and mainstream marketing right I think they can get a lot of users fast. I agree that there will be many projects that bring different things to the table to move cryptocurrency forward. And I think Neucoin can be one of them. It has the best shot I've seen so far at getting lots of mainstream users. |
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download a "client" and change Settings to "Unlock Wallet for Minting Only" really IS insanely technical. It really is.
download "Firefox" and double-click the "Firefox icon" really IS insanely technical. It really is. It's the whole proposition of understanding what cryptocurrency is, grasping the concept of the blockchain and mining and then downloading a client and staking and all that - it's just not something that any mainstream consumer will ever do. That's not the way more mainstream users will come onboard, it just isn't. |
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My point exactly. The facebook masses are different and want different things. Like it or not, but without mass adoption cryptocurrency will remain a niche phenomenon. Whichever coin gets the most users will win.
That narrows it down to 4-5 coins tops - and we all know who is the King Although, mass adoption is not possible yet, people will have to understand why they must choose using cryptocurrency and this needs time. I agree. And for sure Bitcoin has the most users of any cryptocurrency right now. But user adoption isn't happening. It's tiny compared to any reasonably popular app, game or website. And it's not going to grow an iota more from a "user-friendly QT" client, that's for sure. That's why I think that any coin that can succeed in being easy and accessible for the facebook masses will be in that top 4-5. |
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Think about it... why would anybody need a growth account if there would be a user-friendly QT? If I start staking in my BTCD-QT.. it stakes. And I have my BTCD and I can transact them whenever I want.
I really don't understand what some people see in Neucoin.
Neucoin is not going after maintream users with a "user-friendly QT". That would be insane! There is no such thing. "BTCD-QT", "staking", etc, it's just mumbo jumbo to 99.99999999999% of users. Consumers will never download a client. Never, ever, ever. The standard neucoin qt client is for pro miners only - and completely irrelevant for mainstream users. They are targeting facebook users who don't even know what bitcoin is. I'm totally serious when I say that for them to figure out what PoS mining is, let alone want to try and figure it out, download a "client" and change Settings to "Unlock Wallet for Minting Only" really IS insanely technical. It really is. So forget about the desktop client, that's not how any facebook users will start adopting cryptocurrency. It's all about reaching them on their turf, in a fun effortless way, with what can be offered through simple web interface. Drop and drag, click and done. |
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Hmmmm.... Facebook masses don't give a flying.... duck about crypto, they only care how many "likes" this selfie they took with their brand new iPhone is getting
And, since you don't belong to the Facebook mainstream, who "has never even heard of cryptocurrency", how the duck do you know what is pretty great for them?
drag... drop... multiply....
damn, it is too complicated, get my Visa card and let's get over it
Face the facts: the average FB user doesn't care about anonymity, privacy or security, they have given up a long time ago - otherwise they wouldn't be using social media, Chrome, Google or Windows 10
They don't give a damn about decentralization, dodging bank cartels and their unethical practices etc etc etc...
My point exactly. The facebook masses are different and want different things. Like it or not, but without mass adoption cryptocurrency will remain a niche phenomenon. Whichever coin gets the most users will win. |
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I think you guys are missing the point. Anyone who wants to mine (and knows how to do it) can mine the good old way with a standard qt miner. People can and will start mining pools etc and mine Neucoin just like any other PoS coin. Even PoW actually in the first year.
No one has to sign up for any growth accounts. In fact, if you know how to mine why would you? Just mine they way you normally do.
But you forget how insanely technical mining is for 99.99% of the population. There are VERY FEW people who know what this means, let alone how to do it, or that would ever want to have to learn. That's who the growth accounts are for.
Neucoin is going after consumers, not miners and speculators. Sure, they need miners and speculators too - but their whole idea is to get lots of consumers.
And consumers will never download a client. Never, ever, ever. They don't know anything about computers or blockchains. They don't know about mining. Just as they don't know much about bitcoin. Or will ever download a client or even join a mining pool. They just want to click something on their phone.
But if these consumers earns some free coins by playing a game, and if there's an easy way to just click right there on their phone and those coins start to multiply so that he can play even more games, they may think it's cool.
So, the growth accounts isn't the only way you can mine Neucoin. Again, if you know how to mine, just mine. The growth accounts isn't for us here on bitcointalk, it's just a consumer feature for the facebook mainstream who has never even heard of "cryptocurrency". And for them it's pretty great, drop and drag and your coins are multiplying. They key here is easy and fun. That's all the facebook masses care about.
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Gotta go with Gizfreak on that one... |
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Very good start. No pump, no dump. Just slow, steady value increase.
 ... Peak was about here: Go buy some, they're still going for only double the presale price.
That's your definition of a pump? For what, $5,000? Hahaha. Well, you really ARE a conspiracy theorist! To me if there was ever any doubt, it's becoming more and more clear that this really is NOT a pump and dump. Unless of course "scam confirmed" your attempts at getting a dump going counts. That's your interpretation. Where did I say that there was a pump? Hahaha. Well, YOU really are a conspiracy theorist! My point is simple: "slow, steady value increase" is bullshit. Therefore the following is also bullshit (evidentially): Go buy some, they're still going for only double the presale price.
I don't think it's bullshit. It opened at double the presale price, went a little volatile, and then it settled on 50% more then presale price. And it's staying there. While PoS is increasing. That's "slow, steady value increase". Basta. |
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Very good start. No pump, no dump. Just slow, steady value increase.
... Peak was about here: Go buy some, they're still going for only double the presale price.
That's your definition of a pump? For what, $5,000? Hahaha. Well, you really ARE a conspiracy theorist! To me if there was ever any doubt, it's becoming more and more clear that this really is NOT a pump and dump. Unless of course "scam confirmed" your attempts at getting a dump going counts. |
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But if I understsand it right, it won't be just 22,840 new Coins, because that's just an example of one Angel Investor who owns 1 million Coins. The problem is, if I'm right, there are 500 Mio Coins in the hand of seed and angel investors and the founders, plus the staking. So it has to be multiplied by 500.
22,840 * 500 = 11,420,000 new Coins at the end of the second months. At the current value that would be 685 BTC.
And at the end of every month they'll sell more, because of staking. What does that mean? The market will anticipate that and drop at/before the end of every months... Even if there would be a potential user growth that could potentially catch those coins, just to hold the current value, the uncertainty will have some psychological impact. And it's very unlikely that this project will attract so many new Investors just to hold the value.
Plus: If the price won't rise after some time, the experience after ICO's have shown, that the price goes down, because Investors lose patience.
Honestly: Am I wrong with something I'm writing here? My problem really is that I think I must be wrong... or that this is the strangest distribution-model ever. If I'm right this Coin has no chance because of the mathematical design and the psychological impact it has.
And for me it's still uncertain what will be with the 2,4 billion Coins of the "non-profit-organisations". What does that mean: non-profit? They won't ever sell any Coins? Or will they sell 2% of their holdings as well? Because that would mean: plus 66,236,000 new Coins at the end of the second month = 3974 BTC at current value.
Anybody?
Tempus - your calculations seem about right I think. Assuming all investors want to sell all their unrestricted every month, which may or may not be the case depending on long term value increase from price and PoS mining. If the user numbers are growing and more and more games etc are released and this really becomes a big mainstreem thing with millions of users, they probably expect to make a lot more longer term. That would be a game changer. This distrubution is definitely a wild thing, but at the end of the day it's a play at growth and user adoption. Can a premine be used in a smart way to give incentives for commercial actors to build applications, integrate NEU in their services, etc? And to do mainstreem marketing and offer small "free trials" of coins to people outside of the cryptocurrency world so that they can try it out. From reading Neucoin's "strategic plan" it says that the foundations are non-profit in the sense that they only exist to help grow the value and utility of the coin. Foundations will distrubute their coins to companies that help Neucoin grow (like exchanges or user acquisition partners or game developers) and as "free trial" to consumers. Foundations may sell coins to pay for marketing/media, etc that requires fiat money, but never to hoard, and that such sales would always be disclosed in quarterly reports, etc. Sources: http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#foundations and more specific info about how they will distrubute the coins on: http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#distribution-plan |
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I wish i had my 1000NEU from giveaway now  Go buy some, they're still going for only double the presale price. |
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Yup, confirmation email says free survey coins will be made available within 30 days from launch.
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Please send to me some test coin at my address:  NXtHScBxuKJzHCEbXvwcxkDZzLvvndvjRv You mean test coins (like the Beta)? Or some real neucoins to test? The beta/test coin is closed. The real Neucoin launched yesterday! If you want some real Neucoins go to the Neucoin forum, write something funny and ask for a tip. http://forum.neucoin.org/t/tip-me-some-neucoins/I did and I got some! Not enough to tip on to you though.... |
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At the end of the day it's all about user adoption. If Neucoin can get lots and lots and lots of users from the games and distrubution it will be a game changer. I think they have a good strategy and seem to think different. The new ripple.
The short term trading stuff honestly doesn't interest me as much as the long term potential. That this could really be the thing that introduces crypto to new kinds of audiences. Some of you make fun of "Average Joe" but I'm serious about that. If Neucoin can reach people outide of altcoins and bitcoin, it would be huge.
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The client doesn't matter.
Consumers will never download a client. Never, ever, ever. The standard qt client is for pro miners only - and completely irrelevant for normal users.
I don't agree. Many users and especially security sensitive users and users possessing a big amount of funds favor local wallets. That's just a fact. And it's not just an online wallet, it's an online mining app too. Look again at the "mining" interface I posted a screenshot of. Using your own argumentation: Why would Joe Average care about mining? Average Joe wouldn't care about mining. Just as he doesn't care about bitcoin. Or will ever download a client no matter how nicely designed. But if he earns some free coins by playing a game, and if there's an easy, gamefied way to just click right there on his phone and those coins start to multiply so that he can play even more games, he might. That's how neocoin is trying to be different. |
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