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I must say that the picture of your office made me laugh. I was needing a little of fun on my day, tks for that.
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Fair enough. How about we take the transaction id of the final payment and use that to pad the initial hash instead? This could not be known by anyone until it was too late, negating the ability of the last person to generate a winning address.
Does the dude abide?
Using raw transactions you can know the transaction hash before sending it to the network In this situation I would alter my program to now generate raw transactions until I find one that the transaction hash would make my address the winner address. |
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Maybe  But I have addressed the issue with your concern and posted a fix. Timestamp is now used to pad the initial hash so you would have to know the exact second the site scripts picked up the final transaction and corresponding address for that second. I thank you kindly for your help! But now your algo is not provably fair as no one can verify the timestamp informed by you. |
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Your provably fair algo is flawed as it doesn't protect the users from being cheated by the last player.
I can create a program to monitor the game address until it has 99 players and then start generating addresses until I find one that will make me the winner.
You are partly right, after some thought. You are wrong in the fact you cannot generate an address to send from. Your client, or you, have to spend previous outputs, these cannot be generated by you unless you continually send yourself coins in attempt to generate an output that could win. This output would have to contain enough coin for the game or it might not be selected as the payment address if multiple previous outputs are used. So technically yes, this could be achieved through lots of work and many (possibly 100's) of txn fees to the network. I have come up with a method to account for this and will post an update when the code is in place. Thanks for taking the time to look at this! Ok, I'm starting to think you really should spend some time to learn more about Bitcoin. An address can be generated without the need to send coins to it. What I will need to do is find the address that will make me the winner and create 2 raw transactions, one sending my coins to the newly generated address and another to send from the newly generated address to you game address. |
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Your provably fair algo is flawed as it doesn't protect the users from being cheated by the last player.
I can create a program to monitor the game address until it has 99 players and then start generating addresses until I find one that will make me the winner.
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Actually they have a free lotto and the normal lotto.
In the normal lotto you can win up to 101 btcs betting 0.001. In the free lotto is just like a "faucet lotto" where you can bet to get only 1 btc with 6 numbers.
The odds of getting the 6 numbers out of 67 are 1 in 71,852,901,120 what it is almost impossible to happen. You have 0.016129 (1/67) possibilities to get one number.
1/67 × 1/66 × 1/65 × 1/64 × 1/63 × 1/62 = 1/71852901120
your calcs are wrong. what you are calculating is the chance to hit all the lotto numbers IN THE ORDER THEY WERE DRAWN. But that's not how a lottery works, you just need to hit all the number besides the order. I don't remember now how the odds are calculated but I remember that I have calculated it before and the odds are better than mega millions and power ball. |
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actually, the game that offers 1 BTC means that the address will have 1 btc after all the 16 tickets are played
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your provably fair algo is flawed
the last player can keep generating raw transactions until he find a txid where he will be the winner calculated from your algo
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1 cBTC is 0.01 BTC and not 0.1BTC
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And another question, how can you prove that you didn't insert a winning ticket after the draw to win the jackpot. Transactions time aren't enough as they did not contain the chosen numbers
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How is the ticket revenue distribution in your lottery?
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As they don't put the txids of the bets in the results, you can't prove that payment occurred, thereby giving the operators the possibility to play for free, which goes back to my previous point.
Disagree with you here, at their help page there's an explanation of the revenue distribution of their lottery: We take 4% to the house;
From the remainder, we reserve 6% to the next 6 hits jackpot, this means, after someone hit the jackpot for 6 hits, the acumulated amount in this reserve will be used to next 6 hits jackpot;
And the remainder we split it into the following:
17% to the jackpot for 6 hits;
17% to the jackpot for 5 hits;
16% to the jackpot for 4 hits;
25% to the jackpot for 3 hits;
25% to the jackpot for 2 hits.
so, as the tickets are listed before the draw, you can calculate how much a jackpot worth in a draw. So, they won't be able to put a free ticket without risking to be caught cheating. Also I quite like the lottery itself as far as lotteries go, I used to work for an award winning lotteries agent for 3.5 years when I was much younger and you have done a nice job of implementing the payouts, the extra numbers and your tables showing payouts. Its a very traditional lotto, I hate to play them personally as after 3.5 years you get used to people pouring their money away, buut it doesnt mean I cant appreciate a good implementation when I see it, well done.
In my opinion, when any person use their money to gamble. they are "pouring their money away", but when I decide to risk gambling, I would like to have the bigger reward possible, regards the odds. When you play in a casino game with the odds of 50% winning, if you win you will receive less than 2x your bet. It really doesn't make me happy. But when playing a lottery having a chance of winning hundreds of thousands times your bet, if I won, it will really makes me happy. That's why I prefer playing lotteries instead gambling on casinos. |
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This is simply because nobody can prove that the site owner did not use shills to alter their chances.
And @BRules: because of the same reasons, investments are never provably fair - you'll just have to trust the operator
maybe I'm wrong, but what I got is even if the yabtcl site owner(s) decide to play some tickets, it won't alter anyone chance. this is because when the tickets are listed in the file, the lottery result will depend on a event that will happen one and a half hour later. I agree that in the case of the dice sites, as the bets results are instants, the site owner can defraud investors and they will think that was just a luck player. But I don't see how can this be achieved in the YABTCL site. |
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Id like to know how this is achieved, Ive had a look through the JS but i cant figure out how the file hash is extracted from the rawtx. I contacted the site admin informing that there's some discussion about his site in this thread and asked for his help on this matter. where is the hash of the draw secret? you can find it on the help page, on the "Draws" section: "Each draw have an associated secret, you can download the SHA512 hashes of the secrets clicking here." http://yabtcl.com/drawsSecretsHashes.txt |
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Hey mem, I have some btc invested in YABTCL, and I think their system is really provably fair. I will try to explain it from what I understood from the help. OK, what is the order of the addresses in the file ?
I contacted the admin, who said it is chronological order by time of bet.
actually the file generated one and a half our before the draw contains the tickets that will participate on the draw. OK, how can I as a player tell what times the bets were made ?
waiting on response.
didn't understand why this is important to you. The time that the tickets were bought did not affect the lottery result. if two tickets hit 2 winning numbers, they will divide the 2-hits-jackpot. buuuut then, how do we know their not sneaking in another bet at the last minute after checking the results and not being happy with the payouts ?
this was answered in the quote you made from the lottery help. We will timestamp the SHA256 file hash with a bitcoin transaction.
the SHA256 hash is enough to you to know that not a single byte of the file was modified, Or the SHA256 hash would be complete different. and to prove that the SHA256 informed wasn't also changed, they timestamp the hash with a bitcoin transaction. This mean that after the file was generated, a bitcoin transaction is generated to prove that the file wasnt modified. So, when the draw winning numbers are generated, the bitcoin transaction timestamping the sha256 hash of the file was already pushed into the network. Hope this help you to understand their system. By the way, you have a very nice site. Good luck with it. |
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just to let you guys know that I have a pool in this lottery that raise our chances to win any jackpot 86x times and each quota in the pool worth 0.000086 BTC or 0.086 mBTC.
In my pool I have 86 tickets and the tickets doesn't have more than 1 number in common between each other.
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If a house ticket is not chosen when draw, 85% (~7.65) goes to winner.
Didn't understood the math. 85% of 10 BTC = 8.5 BTC There's only one draw per round and only one winner per draw. And the prize is always 85% of jackpot.
Yes, I understood that. I think you didn't get my point. ok, now I see that will be house tickets in the initials rounds. So lets do the math again: You are giving 9 BTC for the first round, so, if I send 1 BTC and I win (66% chance), I will receive 8.5 BTC, if the house win the amount will be available for the next round. so I will send another 1 BTC for the second round, the total jackpot will be 11 BTC, if I win (76.92% chance) I will receive 11 - 0.5% = 10.945 * 85% = 9.30325 BTC. if the house wins, supposing you will get the house rake from the total jackpot, 10.945 will be available for the next round. so I will send another 1 BTC for the third round, the total jackpot will be 11.945 BTC, if I win (0.8333%) I will receive 11.945 - 1% = 11.82555 * 85% = 10.0517175 BTC. if the house wins, supposing you will get the house rake from the total jackpot, 11.82555 will be available for the next round. And on the forth round, as this round will not have house tickets I will have paid a total of 4 BTC and will receive a total of 10.68368315 BTC. Still easy money. |
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9 BTC have been promotionally added to the jackpot due to celebration of the first round of the 1st raffle game!
The pot turns the game massive +EV (Positive Expected Value) for players to bet.
Enjoy the bonus!
 Ok, I didn't read all your first post because it is really long. So forgive me if my questions was covered in it. But this looks like too easy money, as far I could see, there will be 10 tickets of 0.1, so I just need to send 0.1 from 10 different address (1 BTC total) and I will receive 8.5 BTC (after the house rake). Am I right? Another thing, I couldn't see the point of the house rake. on the first draw the winner will receive 8.5 BTC, on the second draw, the winner will receive 9.775 BTC, on the third draw 9.96625. As you could see, the winnings will tend to 10 BTC. So, why the need of house rake? |
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