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im just in investor in sdc.. but bitmsg is a no no shadowcash on the other hand...
I'm a bit disappointed that in both of the posts I've made about Bitmarkets on the bitcointalk.org forums, most of the responses were about altcoins. Is there a subforum specific to Bitcoin that I should be posting to instead? |
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I watched openbazaar from the start, through many 'refactorings' and design changes (mainly networking problems.
It is truly a disappointment, but did have lessons to be learnt.
Bitmessage is a horrible bandwidth black hole, for example. I can't see you getting to ebay sized traffic with that. How do you keep it under control?
Tor and anonymity are definitely a plus. OB seemed to steer away deliberately from this, despite it's origins as a darkmarket.
I believe OB has decided to allow 2 party transactions, reluctantly, but I don't know if there will be a security deposit mandated.
Overall, this looks like a job well done. It's a pity it didn't get more notice earlier.
Thanks! We're not committed long term to Bitmessage, but it looked like the only practical and working solution at the time. We'd be happy to move to any solid working solution for messaging that's an improvement over Bitmessage and can maintain privacy&anonymity, scale to our needs and address the problem of spam (Bitmessage does that via proof of work stamps). |
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It's possible to use this system to exchange cash for cryptocurrencies by physically mailing the cash while being confident the other party will sign the payment once the cash is received as they will otherwise lose their deposit part of the transaction.
Presumably the security deposit will be of a smaller sum than the cash being sent? The video says it's the same amount. I wonder if users can agree to adjust that tho. The seller puts up 1x the price of the item and the buyer puts up 2x (1x for deposit, 1x for payment). These amounts aren't adjustable yet. The white paper explains why we choose a 1to1 deposit ratio. |
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How does this compare to other p2p services such as conffeine or openbazaar? I've been waiting for ages the day I can properly buy bitcoin through p2p without intermediaries, hopefully without getting scammed..
Basically, Bitmarkets is based on two party escrow and focused on privacy. Other markets rely 2of3 multisig and escrow agents but 1) agents have no means of fairly resolving disputes (as they only have one person's word vs another) and 2) 2of3 exposes the user to exit scams as both other signers may be the same party (this has happened many times in dark markets using 2of3). This is covered in this slide deck: https://voluntary.net/bitmarkets/slides/Bitmarkets.pdfIt's possible to use this system to exchange cash for cryptocurrencies by physically mailing the cash while being confident the other party will sign the payment once the cash is received as they will otherwise lose their deposit part of the transaction. |
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Still a fail still uses bitcoins and still not anonymous
Let me guess, you have some premined altcoins to sell us? lol as if this shit is gonna fail just like every other thing going on here There's no profit motive or investment and we work on this for fun so there is nothing to lose. I'd be happy even if it only inspires people to think about and work on these problems. Btw, I think you did some nice design work on the Shadow website. Are there screen shots of the app somewhere? |
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Still a fail still uses bitcoins and still not anonymous
Let me guess, you have some premined altcoins to sell us? |
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I don't know much about it and was under the impression that the Bithalo dev invented the idea. It seems like a kick-ass idea and it's great to see some competition driving it. Supporting BTC seems a million times better than launching a new alt. Except for the million dollars in funding part.
Do you have plans for fundraising? Kickstarter or anything? Have you looked at other markets for the service, such as wagering?
Also, I'm curious, what other coins could you easily support? Nubits? Doge?
No plans for fundraising atm. If there's enough interest in making the client multi-platform at some point, we'll probably look into it. I'm guessing it wouldn't be difficult to support any altcoin that's a fork of bitcoin but we don't see any good reason to support them. Also, we'd like to keep the client as simple as possible. |
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Is it another dark network? If it can get rid of the gov's or surveillance, it will be promising.
We call it a privacy protecting network. |
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Thanks jcooper. Yes, Bitmarkets has no altcoin. It's hard to tell exactly what BitBay is doing from briefly looking at their site (unclear how escrow their works) so I'm not sure how to compare them. Bitmarkets is an independent project (not based on previous market code bases). I don't recall seeing the bithalo white paper.
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Today we're releasing Bitmarkets, a client for private decentralized marketplaces. It's based on Bitcoin two party escrow and uses Bitmessage and Tor for privacy. Open source, free and no fees. Application, source, white paper and protocol spec available at: http://voluntary.net/bitmarketsFirst version available for Max OS X 10.9 or higher. Note: This is an early beta. It works but it's not polished. Any feedback would be really helpful. |
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Yes, but not if it had that stock photo and speech bubble on it's site.
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"Where do you take the number $500k from? Just imagination, some sort of calculation?"
The world gold supply is valued at around $12T. Should bitcoin effectively replace gold as the global decentralized ledger of choice, each BTC would be worth ~$550K in 2013 dollars ($15T/21M).
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There are other factors like the alternatives and their risks over that period (e.g. the S&P has nearly doubled in nominal value over the last two years and there are many high yield bonds of questionable risk) but I'd guess 0.1% is a fair estimate of what the market considers the likelihood of BTC having roughly the current market cap of gold in 10 years.
Of course, the market is made almost entirely of traders who have no way to accurately evaluate the risk (if they could, we wouldn't have bubbles). Even understanding Bitcoin itself requires a good understanding of computer science and economics - what % of traders have a firm grasp of both? And who can predict the global economic climate over the next decade or what financial regulation and monetary policies will be chosen? Anyone that could might easily make more over that period than even this potential 5000x ROI on BTC.
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Might Germany be more hospitable?
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Would consider it for 1750 BTC in mutually trusted escrow.
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The websocket API is great - thanks for making it available.
I'm working on a tutorial for how the blockchain works that uses real time data and if you could add an optional argument to the ping api:
{"op":"ping_block", block_hash}
it would allow the tutorial to browse some recent blocks immediately after it's opened.
Cheers,
Steve
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Imagine that bitcoin becomes ubiquitous and instead of fighting it, government embraces it.
Every business is given a unique tax-id wallet and told that all of the business' transactions must be sent through this wallet. The government owns the private keys for these wallets and takes a cut (taxes) and sends the rest to the business' after-tax wallet which the business owns.
Tax enforcement is as easy as sending agents to make purchases and observing whether the transaction goes through the business' tax-id wallet. The government could also provide a public list of business names and their wallet-ids and make it a crime for anyone to purchase anything from them through a wallet other than these.
Bitcoin would then have provided the perfect means for government to control all economic activity.
Note: I'm a big fan of btc and only mention this in the context of preparing to avoid it.
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