BFL, shady and scammy as it was, actually did build miners and ship some. There was a tangible product they were clearly producing, they just vastly oversold their actual ability to deliver and did "burn testing (i.e. free mining). That's wrong, but the government cannot just go after people for that because there are infinite examples of legitimate computer companies, for instance, doing the same thing (hundreds of millions of dollars from advanced orders for computers that are either chronically delayed or simply non-existent at the time). As long as they can make a plausible case that they are just incompetent as opposed to openly fraudulent, it simply isn't ever going to be criminal.

Furthermore, they were busted by the FTC which is an agency that has much less history of its proceedings working their way into criminal charges. It's basically how you get slapped on the wrist for false advertising.



The SEC, on the other hand, is frequently a prelude to criminal charges. Just ask Pirate@40, because that's actually what happened to him. The SEC did the legwork and then handed the case over to the FBI, at which point the dude just plead out because it was going to be hopeless.

Josh Garza indisputably ran a ponzi. He didn't cherry-pick and selectively deliver his products to reviewers, no, he sold pictures of things that never existed, publicly made impossible promises directly contrary to law, and made numerous fraudulent representations like standing in front of fake mining equipment.

He said he was mining, he never was. He made direct promises of profitability based on capital reserves that did not exist. Any money that went out came from money that went in, without exception. He made representations that he was collecting money that would go to charity, and it clearly didn't.

Remember the "Y U NO SHIP" foam toys from BFL? The FTC made a big deal of them, despite not really being all that meaningful legally speaking, because they are absolute dynamite to a jury. That kind of thing might not be able to directly affect what you get charged with, but it absolutely will affect whether you get convicted for it.

The 9/11 stakers are a similar deal. It's just another aspect of fraud to a case replete with it, but it makes it clear to a jury what this is all about. They might not get "mining", crypto-currency or even what a "Security" is, but when Josh can't show where that money went or even what charity he supposedly partnered with, believe me, a 80 year-old grandmother who is an illiterate daughter of an oakie sharecropper will understand what Garza did.

The Feds are going to get him, that's undoubtedly what the stay is about.

No source:

http://ht.uksafedns.net/hashtalk.org/topic/35025/is-paycoin-on-the-verge-of-being-approved-by-the-sec/62.html

"What happens when the SEC write back to Josh/GAW and say "Thank you for complying with our informational requests and assisting us with our enquiries. We are pleased to announce that we have found that your organisation is not in breach of any SEC regulations. We wish you the best of luck with your venture."

"Could it be that we are now invested in the first coin to be "APPROVED" and given a "Clean bill of health" by a major government agency?"

That's all you bud.

EDIT-

AH! Suchmoon beat me too it.

Either then, you didn't believe all the crap you read.

YOU MADE UP THAT SCENARIO. It was fabricated by you. It had no reference to reality (and the SEC doesn't do anything of the sort anyway, as people told you with references in your twitter and you yet you still argued you were correct.

You can't ask for "reasonable discussion" and then proceed by evading and then eventually blatantly denying what we can PROVE you actually did.

 

Oh, no, no, no!

The fact that JG is 100% responsible precludes anyone else from having any other responsibility whatsoever.

You see, MrCoins can't be responsible for lying about SEC approval (a subject he continually elides), nor can he be responsible for continuing to disseminate lies even now (like promoting the gawsuit which is plainly false).

Nope.

You see, he was just "wrong" and he lost money. So he's a victim.

You know, just like if you are a getaway driver in a bank robbery, and you get double-crossed out of your share of the robbery proceeds, you're entirely innocent of anything! You won't do any prison time because you didn't actually rob the bank yourself, and since the "real" bank robbers have all the money, you're out of pocket for the gas and car! A victim! You see!

Nope, criminally-speaking, such a person would walk free. We couldn't do anything to him without lessening the criminal culpability of the others. Just like how if five people rob a bank together, they each can only do 2 years if the maximum sentence for bank robbery is ten years. You know, basic math.

And morally-speaking, we should feel sorry for him! He "lost" money in the sense that not only did he fail to receive money stolen from others, he completely lost his initial seed money that was supposed to help fund that robbery as well! How horrible!

Look, yes, people TOLD him that he was participating in a bank robbery. But, look, they were REALLY mean about it! And he couldn't admit they were right, that he was indeed indulging in criminality, because that would have been really embarrassing. So, honestly, he *HAD* to drive the getaway car, and basically it's really the fault of everyone who vehemently told him NOT to do it, because they were so harsh it was easier to just go along with it. Oh, and the "real" robbers too!

I mean, don't you spend all your time wondering what they did with their ill-gotten wealth? What they spent it on? How they are living now? Wouldn't it be great if I got a part of that too.I FEEL SO BAD FOR ALL THE VICTIMS, OF WHICH I AM ONE. Thinking of all the money they got? How full their bag is when compared to my empty one?I AM NOT AT ALL JEALOUS OF SUCH HORRIBLE BEHAVIOR, WHICH IS NOT MY FAULT AND CAN ONLY BE DIMINISHED BY ME ACCEPTING ANY BLAME.

Or, you know, simply not pumping any crypto-scheme ever again. That's too much to ask. Free Speech. It's not HIS fault that people believed his lies on social media and bought into XPY. You see, Josh is a criminal...because, like, people believed his lies...on social media... and bought XPY....



Join the gawsuit! Buy ION!

I doubt Josh is holding anything. He immediately frittered it all away in the same ostentatious displays of his nouveau riches that attracted you to his scam in the first place.

Jets, Cars and hotels, even when rented, do not come cheap. Neither does maintaining an entourage or paying the salaries of the people who staff the front you called a company so you can make-believe you are a CEO.


You see a "particularly clever scammer", I see a serial con-man who is so chronically unable to fulfill even basic life obligations that it bubbles over into his associates like an outbreak of the plague. In other words, the "clever scam" here is simply how he spent so much stupid  money like a drunken sailor that he managed to attract other people who wanted to do the same thing, if only because JG wasn't really so different than them, so why shouldn't they also have what he does?

So it's really hollow to see you here, fondling your empty bag and bemoaning how his is full. Actually, no, his is empty. AS IT ALWAYS WAS. It only temporarily appeared full because the money that was previously in *your* bag passed through it, and that money only changed hands because you wanted, via sympathetic magic, for your bag to be able to shit money like his did.

And you act like a passive victim when you were cheerleading all along, asking others to pass money through JG's bag in the hopes that such an activity would transform your bag, and when that sorcery still inexplicably failed to work, you provided false promises and information. But the incantation STILL failed, and so you started pumping the activities of his associates, etc..

Until now, when you advocate the gawsuit (which absolutely does not exist in any actual form: Shinners didn't even ask for those affidavits to be notarized ffs, and he's supposedly going to hand them all off to some law firm which has NO contact with ANY of the non-notarized affiants? Are you fucking kidding? The lawyers would be *lucky* if the judge immediately threw it out, the judge could sanction them on the spot, forget just referral to the bar) and this ion nonsense.

You have always been wrong, and you have consistently made war on those who were actually right. Instead of recanting, you simply chalk it up to egos, saying you couldn't back down because tempers ran too hot and it would be too embarrassing to admit that you are an idiot.

And saying, by the way, that you are also responsible does not actually diminish JG's culpability at all. Because, moron, if two people are involved in the same murder, they don't each get "half-sentences." Once again, you have no idea what you are talking about but you are incapable of shutting your mouth.

The best part is that ubershill MrCoins is literally posting "check out gawsuit.com for updates"

...even though it hasn't been updated in two months, and the last update in February was a rehash with no real progress because Shinners said people kept emailing him.

Paul Revere laid it out months ago, but what Shinners is saying now condemns the gawsuit completely (even after leaving out Mordica). He's actually claiming that a "secret" law firm has agreed to take this case on a contingency basis, a case in which they are solely relying on Shinner for everything.

This is not how things actually work. No law firm is ever going to show up in court with a stack of affidavits all provided by a single guy who has assiduously maintained a total separation between the lawyers and their actual clients.

The rules about affidavits are somewhat lax and but what Shinners is doing here constitutes a clear-cut ethical violation. No reputable lawyer would even consider touching it, and less-than-reputable lawyers would insist on at least being paid first.

That's before we get into the obvious fact that any law firm looking at this is going to conclude that the judgment will be unrecoverable. Shinners isn't remotely the only one suing Josh for his never-ending cons, and the claims that Shinners knows where the money is sounds like a tall-tale anyway.

I don't know what the angle is, it simply might just be that Shinner is a gigantic blowhard convinced of his self-importance who made this all up to simply make himself feel powerful and respected after he lost a fortune with Josh, but this whole thing is a fake, whatever the reason.


Shinner is posting "SoonTM" about the gawsuit!

Doesn't anyone involved recognize that tactic, at this point?

The GAWsuit was "moved", even though it was never filed as Shinners explicitly claimed.

It's all a secret, you see, and Shinners totally knows where Garza hid all the loot, you know, because reasons.

Just keep those bags open, believers, I'm sure it'll rain XPY from the sky at any moment!