I have X Coin, I have a large amount of X Coin that I want to trade for Y Coin.

Problem #1: I'm afraid to use Coinigy & Shapeshift for such large amounts. (Shapeshift has limits and not sure how much I trust Coinigy since the rate you see can change; and no clear way to contact support if something goes wrong), they also don't have 'localbitcoins' for altcoins.

Problem #2: I'm afraid to use a normal exchange as it is such a LARGE amount and worried it will:

(1) Tank the market by 'dumping' on it -or-
(2) My account will get frozen, requiring more verification, and get reported to the taxman with IRS knocking on my door.
(3) That I'll lose all my gains during a hack or some sort.


I'm thinking the best way is to just stagger but let's say you have 100k, what amount would you stagger? How long does it take some people to close out their accounts of 'larger' amounts?

What are some other ways to get rid of altcoins you no longer want to reallocate your portfolio?

I avoid Poloniex like the plague.  It took 2 Months to verify my account; 3-5 days on average for each reply. After the DDOS attack my account reset to 0 verification, the entire thing was wiped. It's been over a week and support has simply stopped. I was fortunate to have withdrawn all the coins I was trading. The first time I tried to withdraw I had to wait for manual approval that took 3 days and ½. I have not actively traded on any exchange in a month. Shapeshift/Changelly was what I was using but was missing out on major trades. So now I'm using Bittrex. I don't trust Bittrex. This new exchange EON and I have no doubt it will be good but it's shady. It's partly centralized and they were deceptive during their campaign they didn't tell people that U.S. citizens couldn't participate upfront and never replied to emails for comment. They are an EU centralized exchange with decentralized service, that is all.

I'm interested in NVO: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917456.0

I'm not really sure I understand Blocknet, it seems like a blockchain that lets you build a trade platform on it? Not sure what's special about it…would like to be educated regarding it. Can you build a trade platform off of it; or is it a trade platform in and of itself?

But I agree we really need something that competes against more modern services; that doesn't just offer the basics and doesn't focus on KYC compliance, with high volume and liquidity.

I'm not sure why their anonymity is a problem. We give our money to shops without faces all the time. This team has a product; they are raising money to develop their existing product. What does it matter if you can't see them. They could easily hire people to 'be' their face, this is done all the time; but instead they chose to build a product and let you decide if it benefits them. They are trying to help *you* with a product they already have in existence, not something that doesn't exist. If you like the product, pay for it, if you don't...don't pay for it.

This said an escrow is not a bad idea perse; even my team which wants to be anonymous for our protection had to come up with ways to ensure that no one person on the team would run off with the money or that there would be checks in place to ensure that funds were used as they are intended to be used -- as agreed upon by everyone before participating. Even 'known' faces have this issue.

Somewhat troublesome. If 1BTC = example 400USD today it could be 2k USD tomorrow; done this way that means if it were priced 1BTC that I'd be paying 400/per month one month 700/next month 2k/next month (exaggeration) so if the 'flat price' doesn't adjust based on real world values then it's technically not pricing itself accurately; we could be overpaying or underpaying.

I've read the ICO page in-depth, it's my understanding that is lacking.

 True, it does bring attention to things I haven't noticed; due to not being able to observe all markets at the same time. But is that worth a price that could be $24 today , $50 - $150 tomorrow? It's not hard to program a bot that does this; your bot saves the work of someone coding it themselves; and that's a great thing. But.... how accurately is the bot priced to reflect the actual value it is offering?

As a side note, I have already disabled exchanges I'm not using; disabling the exchanges doesn't work. I use Poloniex AND Bittrex; and those are the only two exchanges I have up there. That workaround does not work well enough to be considered a true workaround.

The problem with that is that I pay ~$100 yearly for a service that already sends me alerts on the specific coins I want at the price I want. Coinigy. I tried Cryptoping for that and realized if I was manually setting it; that I was getting the same alerts I get from Coinigy. What set this bot apart was that it had a bot that was already scanning the market so that I didn't have to manually set those indicators.



I agree. But the bot isn't clear on this/doesn't differentiate as far as I understand it. It just says Signals: 2/7d, or 1/7d, there is no explanation on what that actually means if that is how it does this, and there's no guide to explain how to interpret those signals either. At best it's good for observation and monitoring, but my problem with this is, it is not hard to monitor a market based on volume using a bot, bots are all over the place monitoring and triggering execution/buy and sells based on that type of data. What is hard, and what to me would differentiate this project (other than the fact that it's one of the only ones marketing itself and trying to get people to purchase it) would be it's ability to actually observe, monitor, and clarify what you've just said here; because that's not clear. Other than just telling me when X has occurred overtime.

I'm thinking long-term in the future. I realize I don't have to pay anything yet, but I'm asking these questions here because I am on the border. I know I don't have to pay anything, and am aware there is a free-tier, but I'm questioning it's (fluctuating) value to help determine my own decisions.

I was interested in the ICO, but had some concerns before buying in. Since there is a free-tier it might be better to wait and see how this project grows. Either way I'm interested and watching closely for improvements.


This is what I like about CryptoPing because this is my mission as well. I see it as a tool that could possibly help me help others in the future without developing my own platform; but at the same time. I have concerns that seem to be remedied by just sitting back and watching the project grow. It has potential.

1. The bot tells you ONLY when the pump is happening at that moment, it doesn't tell you when a dump is happening and doesn't send any signals right before it.
2. It gives you information on every single coin, you have to manually disable all coins one at a time, that's a lot of crap coins you don't want to hear about to have to disable.
3. At 0.01BTC/month  right now 0.01BTC is $24 or so dollars, as BTC increases that could mean that 0.01BTC could come to cost $100 or even $150 USD...does this subscription adjust itself to BTC price changes or is that flat, no matter what happens?
4. How much of a discount am I actually receiving if I purchase tokens during the presale and not afterwards?

I keep this bot on; but half the time it's only confirming what I already know. Once the bot tells me there has been a pump etc. in the market then I know I'm already too late. I have to already be IN that coin to actually profit on it. This is why I don't think the bot is actually useful to me right now. For it to be useful it needs to tell me BEFORE, and there are plenty of indicators and signals that it can be utilizing to do just that.

I like the bot mainly for being able to confirm price action, and to bring attention to some things; but these signals often come too late; It also doesn't tell you about dumps, only the pumps. I like that the bot is cheap. And that the tokens will be available to trade. I like the roadmap. I'm torn with this one. I want to purchase for discounted tokens just to confirm my existing knowledge, but not sure if I want to pay X amount of money per month just to be told a pump has happened in coins I'm already watching and getting alerts for via coinigy.

They've answered this in the thread already; pictures for visuals are in the "img" link.

NVO's main competition then is EON. EON was everything I've been working on building with my team in the background with one exception EON is closed-source, proprietory, and is not open about the fact that it is closed to U.S. citizens. I was very disappointed; because I needed a trustless exchange like Shapeshift & Changelly; but with order-books; and high volume like Poloniex and Bittrexx. I DO program bots; so not being able to use a bot so I am not glued to my screen watching charts 24/7 is not something that excites me.  

NVO does not have to have a web version, but it should at least have a web application similar to the NEM wallet, so someone can just download a folder, and click index.html and be able to use it in a web, as opposed to having to download an application and install it. Or be stuck to a phone. The reason I don't use other decentralized exchanges is because I have to install, and sync and it doesn't work on my computer without issues. I've read the entire 13 pages of this thread so I see where it differs from Bitsquare etc. I hope that it differs here too.

NVO to increase it's success should look at what other exchanges and their alternative competitions are offering. Particularly I think it should look at what EON is offering, and PRISM (by Shapeshift which is not an exchange but a portfolio...but one where you have to pay fees to use ETHER), EON's seems to be the RIPPLE of exchange alternatives with more features. EON is the blockchain version for their exchange Exscudo. That it has it's own blockchain seems to be a plus for it which is integrated into it's own exchange, where people can benefit, to integrate other features to it.  To do this in such a way where one does not have to give up their privacy as they are forced to do with EON -- and in a open way, we don't have that. I see that NVO is focused on having other wallets and services integrate themselves into it; so I imagine if someone offers USD/FIAT they have to decide NVO is worth it and could make their own rules -- but that's just an assumption. The whitepaper that was on the site is down.


NVO looks very well put together; but I haven't seen anything else. It should focus on aesthetics and beauty, modern interfaces and UI. But it also should look at Poloniex's system of order-books and charts, look at Gemini, and it needs to integrate the things that work in a slick clean way. Poloniex's chart system and the ability to look at the side to see which alts are performing well and which are bad, and how easy their order books are is why I like them. The DDOS attacks not so much.

NVO hasn't made clear how the team will profit from fees; I like that EON offers a way for regular people to use their 'tokens' to be able to receive some fees. From what I understand the only thing NVO tokens serve is for crowdfunding, and then they'll just be traded on an exchange; but other than supporting developers and being tradeable what real value do they give people? What benefits come to actually holding the token. Do my fees on the exchange get reduced? Do we get to purchase at a super low price?  I like that it's not doing an ICO, but if there is no benefit to purchasing it; the 'incentive' it's a hard sell to people who look at this not as traders but investors. Unless your target is 'only' traders? IDK if I have understood this correctly.

Right now I see NVO as something minimal. It's limited to the power of 2 people  whereas other projects have a greater team. Yes this has already been addressed, and I more than anyone understand what it means to work with a small team. I also agree that a small team is better than a large team of people who* disagree. But you're also limited in what you can reasonably do as just 2 people. What a small team can do at the most basic is make a most basic replacement, meanwhile other people like EON are making alternative exchanges that are only slightly less evil than Poloniex. NVO is very honest, I love that compared to EON and it's participants which don't have the same integrity. I'd like it see it compete directly against EON; it's truly decentralized alternative.

For NVO to really get attention and be successful it should also make a partnership with someone big, to get some backing -- if now not at a later date; I'm not understanding if it plans to integrate other exchanges or even how...but I hope that it integrates Shapeshift and/or Changelly, it would nice to have the option to have an order book if exchanges are being integrated into it as I've read. To be able to place in an order at the price you want and purchase from Shapeshift/Changelly when that order has been met.

If NVO is not focused on integrating other exchanges and just p2p. Look at how Shapeshift/Changelly have created liquidity, each in a different way, how can we tackle the low volume issues that decentralized exchanges have? I've not heard how this plans to be tackled so that people who are hesitant about this exchange can come on and know that there will be liquidity in the coin they want.

How easy will NVO be to use? Part of it is making it so easy someone dumb like me can use it. Should have charts integrated into it like any other exchange; really it has to be a good alternative, not just good enough. Even if it's not EON, to be attractive it needs to offer what Poloniex and Bittrex offer; with the ease and efficiency of Shapeshift/Changelly/Jaxx/Exodus. I really see NVO's potential.

It's hard for me to understand ALL that NVO has to offer against what it's not offering; though I understand basics. A decentralized wallet with built in exchange features, where the users decide the currency pairs they want not a centralized; where top wallets are added by the core team; but other wallets such as XEM or STRAT have to be added by the XEM or STRAT team...let me make clear that it is very unlikely that with all the work those teams are doing that they will have time to worry about building a wallet for this exchange btw. But maybe someone in the community will; I recommend that every coin that Changelly and Shapeshift offer, should be offered by NVO. Changelly as an example integrates and partners with an exchange; and you p2p with them while they do the work; you put in the price you want it they give you back what they could get at that time through Poloniex/Bittrex; Shapeshift similarly; but Shapeshift has it's own wallet reserve of coins. And this is how they are able to increase liquidity. NVO on the other hand seems to have a different approach; I need the whitepaper to understand. I understand the site has been attacked which tells me right now that NVO is seen as a threat to some group of people. So NVO must be on the right track.

I do feel like there is a place for NVO, I want to see that place. At least if NVO is not planning to compete against EON or Poloniex or Bittrex. I feel so strongly that we need NVO which is why I'm writing this indepth feedback; I think NVO is offering something we don't have yet; but it's a little bit behind the times because other exchanges are already being born right now; offering ICOs to compete.

Let it be clear that I realize that NVO is not EON; that EON has a blockchain which is why it can offer the services it's offering and that my understanding is that NVO is built on top of a blockchain? What was it counterparty? I'm not sure have been reading a lot of whitepapers and websites so can't recall all the details.

It's sucks I agree. I really think more people need to be vocal about this since Excscudo has multiple documents and put that in fine print of one of them. They weren't clear about it on the "Buy now" page and aren't replying to their email or updating anything to make clearer on the front-page about this 'piece of fine print'. You can try to contact excscudo by their email to ask if you can get a refund or what to do; but my bet is that you'll just be trapped on their exchange, esp. since it's a closed-exchanged. I'm glad I know now I was willing to invest 2k - 6k but once I began doing some digging I realized EON isn't for me. More people need to know about this since I'm guessing not everyone on this board buying in is an  E.U citizen....has to be a lot of U.S. citizens who are getting fucked royally right now.

I would assume this means US citizens can't even participate in the SIG campaign; it's VERY very deceptive of this campaign; they have reframed words by focusing on being compliant; following US and international laws on this, this raised a reg flag. They have not been clear about this upfront; the only way to find out US citizens can't participate isn't via their FAQs but by reading 1 document out of the several they have listed up there; they aren't clear about their KYC policies. They just say they reserve the right to do X when they decide. This means without asking them directly if they will require all people who participate in the campaign to redeem or take their EONs out to verify their identity; so your tokens may or may not be trapped on their exchange until it becomes available for US citizens; who can know without them clarifying. I can't get into the slack channel to ask directly. Just curious how many US citizens have already participated in this campaign without realizing they may not be able to redeem their tokens because they will have broken one of the rules by doing so. Exscudo has not made any attempt to target U.S. citizens to offer them a way to participate; this is for EU members only, I really hope people speak very loudly about  this to get answers from the team for U.S. citizens who have already invested without reading that little piece of fine print...

Not sure if anyone has seen this; but

https://www.reddit.com/r/EXSCUDO/comments/6cawn3/warning_us_citizens_cant_redeem_their_eon_coins/

Exscudo is focused on compliance in the EU; https://exscudo.com/Crowdsale%20Prospectus.pdf

--U.S. citizen Laws
(ii) Each person shall only participate in the Campaign (a
“Purchaser”) through the personal web account, registered on the
("my.exscudo.com"). If a Purchaser is a citizen, tax resident or
green card holder of the United States of America (“US
Purchaser”), he/she shall not participate in the Campaign except
through such ways as separately designated by the Exscudo OU
for US Purchasers’ participation.


--KYC laws
(v) The Exscudo OU shall be entitled to take any action to identify
any Purchaser at any time, even after the close of the Payment
Window (as defined in Section 7 below). If the Exscudo OU
conducts “know your customer” exercises or any other kind of
customer due diligence to verify the identities of all or part of the
Purchasers, the Purchasers concerned shall timely provide all such
information and meet all such requests as may be sought or
instructed by the Exscudo OU for that purpose.

--AML laws (note that this includes tax evasion/not reporting btc income on taxes)
If the Exscudo OU discovers the purchase of EON by any
Purchaser violating any anti-money laundering, counter-terrorism
financing or other regulatory requirements, such purchase shall be
invalid with retroactive effect and the Exscudo OU shall be entitled
to immediately deny the relevant person’s admissibility to the
Campaign, reject delivery of any EON and request return of any
delivered EON, irrespective of any payment that could have been
made by that Purchaser

--Is it open source?
No, it's closed source. It has decentralized features but is centralized; with centralized governance and decision making.

--More INFO
(a) All the information submitted by him/her to the Exscudo OU is
true, complete, valid and non-misleading;
(b) He/she is not a citizen, tax resident or green card holder of the
United States of America unless he/she participates in the
Campaign through ways as specifically designated by the Exscudo
OU for US Purchasers’ participation;
(c) He/she is of sufficient age to participate in the Campaign and
is a natural person with full civil capacity of conduct under the
laws of the jurisdiction where he/she is domiciled or maintains
citizenship;
(d) He/she is aseasoned investor, expert, technician and/or
professional in the fields of blockchain, distributed ledger
technology and crypto-tokens, cryptocurrency and financial
market and is fully aware of the risks associated with the
development and use of the Exscudo Ecosystem;
(e) His/her participation in the Campaign is voluntary and based
on his/her own independent judgment without being coerced,
solicited or misled by anyone else;
(f) He/she is permitted by the laws of each jurisdiction to
participate in the Campaign and is legally permitted to acquire,
receive and hold crypto-tokens;

Can't. Need an 'invite' from the team.

"Don't have an account on this team yet?
Contact the team administrator for an invitation"

This was possibly already answered but here are my questions:

1. Will the charts be useful/offer "Fractals, Stoch RSI, Relative Momentum Index" etc. i.e. will the charts be as good as the Coinigy charts I pay for and use now...

2. Will portfolios be embedded into the system, I notice portfolios weren't mentioned; but being able to track your ROI seems like an important part.

3. Will you be complying with the intrusive FATCA laws against u.s citizens and the IRS/Fincen, and will you be imposing levels of verification and limits on 10k transactions and KYC/AML laws put in place ex. will this be like Ripple's Gatehub or Usd Tether's Wallet...can someone who does not want to comply with KYC trade on this exchange / does one have to give up their name, address, passport, ID, to use it. Or can one use it the way they would shapeshift or changelly no verification required.

4. When does Excsudo get developed and hit the market/when can we use the exchange?

5. What Exchanges will EONS be available after launch?

6. How much does estimated development for Exscudo cost?

7. Is it open source?

8. How many EONs do you need to create a node/what's the process for creating one/What does it cost for upkeep/how does the passive income work i.e. how much will it be relative to the EONs I have?

9. How secure are the ICO EONs/how can I change my password on this EONs site if it gets hacked?

10. When will the wallet be available for EONs and what if the wallet 'eats' your EONs?

11. ICOs are linked to life-time accounts; what if Excsudo bans your account; or you trade your ICO EONs, do you lose your status?

12. Does this support email change and password change (some exchanges don't).

13. How liquid will this be from the start; does it require mass user adoption for their to be liquid, or is liquidity ensured somehow?

--That's all the questions I have for now-- I am certain some of these were answered already.

---Deleted---

It's a nice gesture but it's not currently easy for people to 'claim' Lumens. Plenty of people want to claim but depending on which wallet software they use have to track down their addresses, figure out which wallet supports signatures, import into that wallet and then sign each one individually. It's cumbersome and not sure why it has to be 'that' cumbersome.

(Note: Some people can't even claim Lumens at all because of their wallet-type, ex. coinbase, circle, and other wallets that don't support signatures). I just can't help but feel there were more efficient ways to do this than this method which wants to target bitcoin holders specifically and that this was a way for the company to 'get' lumens, knowing that plenty of people wouldn't be able to claim by default giving it to stellar.

I support a hard fork, but I no longer support ethereum. Their dream and vision was nice but their implementations are flawed for so many reasons. I viewed them as a respectable team, but they don't know what they're doing, they're still learning and trying to figure this out. Even the former CEO of Ethereum said Vitalik had made a 'rookie' mistake, both by backing and hyping this project and then his own reactions to the event. He's new at this. Truth is not all founders are meant to be CEO and being able to write code and create a language doesn't mean you're able to create something good. They'll learn from this, and maybe they'll build better or fall apart. I'm sure there are enough people in the ethereum community who have enough trust and faith in Ethereum for it to slowly be earned back. Whether they build better or not, I don't know. I already have a problem with having to purchase an altcoin in order to send/transact with another altcoin so Ethereum in practice is just a nuisance to me. Plus now every other app including the digixdao is citing possible vulnerabilities as a result of Ethereum's issues. Definitely doesn't look good right now to say, "Built with Ethereum". We'll see when Serenity is released if that changes as they gain more experience.

I don't know if I believe it is a scam. It's just speculation at this point.

The DAO was a blessing in disguise. It exposed the vulnerabilities within Ethereum so greatly that no amount of hype could cover it up. But it also taught a lot of trading lessons to a lot of people that if they're willing to learn will strengthen their investment/speculation practices. While some people lost 'all' of their capital, the truth is. They probably only lost 1/2 of it at this point, could have been less if they folded the moment they saw a 20% market decrease on an established coin.

They can still sell their coins at a loss on the market, and make that back in less time than it takes for Ethereum and the DAO to get itself together. With the profit they make selling out, and putting only a select portion of gains back in (that is if they still want to) they could ride the wave 'if there is another wave' then if there is a wave, EXIT immediately back into BTC and double your profits. That's how I work. Altcoins are just a way to double my $USD so that I can double my capital with BTC and then back into a more stable currency that I can use for everyday transactions. But after this event I am toning it down a bit and will probably be sticking to just BTC, though altcoins can help add a few $$s to my portfolio so it's nice if viewed as something on the side but not as the main dish.

In any case I like altcoins because they give people with less capital a less volatile chance to explore how it works and offer innovation. It's a great place to train new speculators and practice new concepts, but even an altcoin on it's finest day will have a lot of work to be able to match Bitcoins ability to rise or drop by $50 - $100. Plus there are more ways to double your money with BTC than there are ways to do the same with altcoins. You can make $11k - $100k in a year with altcoins, you can do that in a month with BTC if you know what you're doing and have the capital.

On a Separate Note:
I also tend to find this whole DAO thing suspicious. There are too many red flags. The language of the contract saying, "The law is the code and the code is always right", any  programmer knows that was a problem waiting to happen. The Ethereum team hyping it up while at the same time trying to distance themselves legally from it at the same time. I remember thinking if this thing is as legit as they say why are they not willing to be accountable for their actions. And the slock.it team was suspicious too. Their unapologetic nature and how they seem unphased by all the anger targeted at them, and won't issue an apology adds to my suspicions. Ethereum backing this beast gave it credibility but they're only human and humans are flawed. When there is hype, ignore what the people are saying, read the contract and trust your own gut.

Something else got me, the language of the contract itself and the way it was designed almost feels deliberate even though they say otherwise. I read somewhere that the slock.it team had planned to exploit use the same area the attacker exploited but the attacker got to it first. I just get this really bad vibe that even though it is unproven that this was an inside job, and I'm not sure if it was the ethereum team or the slock.it team, but if there's anything to be learned from how corruption and hacks happen...it's usually an inside job. See Shapeshift's incident as an example.

I don't like openly speaking about my conspiracy theories but it seems suspicious. Either people were just negligible...or they are truly intelligent to know exactly what they're doing right now...don't like conspiracies, but this did leave a nasty taste in my mouth due to so many red flags and now just problem after problem with this thing. Idk. Maybe it was just their trust in a code that is still in development that got them there, their blind faith in their own work and the 'ego' and lack of humility with the slock.it team but that's just me.

I've noticed that.  I don't think many people realize that all ICOs are is a donation attached with a promise. "If you invest in my coin and IF we profit from it, you can get a reward." It's a big 'if' an unknown, with no guarantees. They don't even realize that the market sets the price... The reward itself IMO is just a promise like a rebate or receipt. Typically ICOs are launched by start-ups who haven't done much to raise their own capital, offer nothing of value in the moment, have no previous works to show for and are crowdfunding to say, "we have not yet created anything, haven't even raised much of our own money, but give us money and we can do just that."

Very rarely do they have previous works and developments to back up their claim, and when they do very rarely do people check to see how that worked out for them and what they did.

How is it that when running a kickstarter people need to see something tangible to see how something works, but here in the cryptocommunity by majority we just take their word for it using the existence of a coin on an exchange as evidence that it's the real deal?

This works this way in all walks of life. How many people buy games pre-sale before launch, and then watch as that game shoots down in price shortly after launch or a year later? Combine this with the fact that most ICOs are start-ups and that 90% of start-ups actually fail.

It's interesting how many people will give money to someone they haven't met just because they have a nice webpage a picture and give you a I.O.U coin, and then get upset because that I.O.U/ICO didn't do what they wanted it to do after launch for whatever reason.

Most people who are just 'gambling' and don't have a strategy or plan that works (other than closing their eyes and throwing a dart hoping it hits something) are better off looking at existing coins that are in the accumulation phase and have an obvious pattern, and then purchasing those than they are taking a thoughtless gamble on ICOs. There are so many coins right now that spend more time accumulating than they do in distribution and have an obvious pattern. The payouts can be just as good with less risk if people learn how to read the charts and question/scrutinize the developers.

I see people make these mistakes and I cringe. Sometimes I want to write a book just to keep people from making the same mistakes and thinking smart. But maybe their mistakes will someday pay off for them, better than putting money into a lottery I suppose

I personally trade by the philosophy that trading bitcoin etc. doesn't have to be a big gamble, loss can be minimized and mitigated. But people don't think and sometimes they get lucky, and sometimes they don't. If they have money to lose they just throw it in a pot and hope the developer doesn't light a match. There are ways to mitigate the risk so that the loss is negligible but that requires thought. The biggest asset people can have is educating oneself and completely tearing apart and dissecting any company or business that asks for your money with critical questions and a request for tangible proof.

If those questions aren't answered properly or can't be answered move onto the next thing.

At the end of the day there will always be opportunities, patience is a virtue. What goes up, always goes down, and history repeats itself.

Maxxed out my word count for the day.

-The End-

I considered it but if there is no pump signal in the charts then I won't buy in. So I'm just watching it, and studying the behavior of people. Seems strange that people who have been doing this for a while still run right into scams with open arms without due discretion. I've been lurking for a while and I see the pattern repeats itself, over and over again, year after year...

In any case. I enjoy analyzing coins. Not usually wrong about a coin, but I'd like to be. I hope it pays off for you too. Someone elses loss is another persons profit.

I am kinda surprised that no one knew this was a scam from the get-go...or maybe you knew it was a scam and just wanted to go along for the pump n dump /get rich quick ride. IMO that's a level of risk I'm not interested in because I know that:

1. The vast majority of crowdsales fail.
2. The vast majority often don't survive past the first dump
3. The vast majority of scams don't go beyond a first homepage.
4. And so on and so on.

This coin met all the suspicious criteria plus tax. The only funny bit was that they showed their faces, but that means nothing to me as how many people have shown their faces and still left people holding the bag? What matters to me is community reputation and results, and even that doesn't guarantee anything. They claimed they were partners with Merkle, and other 'name brands' but only linked to a badly written article that was part of the 'hype'. And then they mysteriously cease communication after the crowdsale and people with complaints can't reach them? They climbed ranks on coinmarketcap and that has given them 'some' legitimacy, but we know the truth.

It's for this reason why I rarely 'angel invest' in crowdsales, and prefer to simply watch from the sidelines. Some of them have promise and actual reputation....In very rare cases will I invest in a crowdsale or ICOs, (1) If I truly believe in the viability of it's future and see it as useful to me and others (in which case it has to meet other criteria for me to jump in). (2) I believe that the hype being generated will carry it away such that it will be pump n dumped quickly so I can enter and exit quickly + the backing of 'name brand' people which increases the potential for reward. (i.e in such a case it doesn't matter if it's a pump n dump because I myself plan to dump it at the first exit).

I don't tend to enjoy being the 'first user' of something since price always goes down after initial launch. But you can still get your money back...

There's a lot going in your favor. People still believe in the coin, the currency is at a steady price, and it can stay that way if you guys don't panic. Realize that there is no bad news about this coin floating around outside of facebook comments and this forum, and it only takes some good news to bring it up. Go write a paper about why you believe Waves will be a great coin and submit it.

Right now because the coins are so cheap and because it cost relatively nothing to participate, there are bound to be whales who own the coin and will pump then dump, so be patient and exit then. If the coin is truly valuable and not a scam then it'll survive the pump and eventually bounce back from the dump.

I myself have a love for amassing cheap coins during panics and selling back to people when it goes up IF the coin has a pattern/history to compare it against.... Try to be more confident about your choices and if you really want a profit now. Work together and whale the prices. That's the best I can tell you otherwise, lots of great suggestions about holding. And if the price remains steady it could hedge against any volatility in bitcoin.