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How can we vote on this? We actually dont know what we're voting on.
We cant estimate the value, just hope that Tawsix is telling the truth?!
We dont know how many shares that will be involved in this, since Tawsix thinks he magically paid of his debt to SIN and other investors.
I'd like to see more details about this liquidation before voting, and the alternatives...
And I'm not talking about your previous joke, the calculations where you take half or everything!!!
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To others: The time I logged is from straight working on computers. It does not involve the time I spent driving around picking up materials, it doesn't cover gas, it doesn't cover wear on tools, it doesn't cover time spent on this project besides working directly with the computers, it doesn't cover internet costs, it doesn't cover insurance costs, and it doesn't cover property taxes, to name a few things it doesn't cover. And that's just my things it doesn't cover. The value from the contractors is straight time paid, it doesn't cover workman's comp, it doesn't cover the materials they donated, it doesn't cover gas, it doesn't cover their insurance, and it doesn't cover their fees, to name a few things it doesn't cover.
So here is the ultimatum: I will give you a total time logged. I will give you the activities that that time was spent on. I will give you a (non-comprehensive) list of materials that were donated or borrowed that otherwise would have had to have been bought.
Or I will sit down and basically audit myself and account for every screw, every plug, every wire, every second of my time, and bill the company for it all. I will ask the contractors for bills. These bills will be far greater than just time worked (which will also be on there, except at their actual working rates, far greater than the $30/hour or so I am giving them). I will gladly post the proof of these bills from the contractors. At that point there will be no going back, and the contractors will be paid their bills to the best ability of this company. Their bills will be far greater than the $10,000 we could expect to make from the liquidation. Investors will not see a single cent of it.
Perhaps some of you aren't grasping the magnitude of how much was given to this company to make it work. I didn't collect dividends so this company could get off the ground. I didn't charge for time spent so this company could get off the ground. I called in a lot of favors from a lot of people to give me help for free so this company could get off the ground. I am tired of people acting like that did not at all contribute to the company being profitable, and that it did not contribute to the dividends the investors got, and that it didn't contribute to the growth we were able to experience.
So here's the deal: say the word, and I will put up a motion concerning this. I won't vote at all on this motion, it will be purely an investor vote. Just keep in mind, if that motion goes towards asking for bills, there will be no going back, and there will be no money left for investors.
You don't understand, do you? You told us you would work on this project for free, if you wanted to change the terms, that should be approved by the shareholders. If you were going to hire contractors to work for us, that also should go through the shareholders. ANY TERMS that are being changed should go through the shareholders. You have not done this, therefore it's not valid. The thing is, since you haven't actually paid for your shares, those shares are basically owned by us... Since we (the bank) gave you (loan taker) a loan with the investment in your venture, which you haven't paid of. You still owe us the rest (202BTC paid), since SIN (the investment) is not profitable we need to liquidate. If you were to go to a real bank and say, "Sorry, the investment went south, so basically I'm taking half of what's left in the company(loaned capital)", and have the nerve to give the bank and investors an ultimatum... AND also on your own changing the terms and putting the losses on the bank instead of yourself. Your so called "ultimatum" basically means that you have made a profit (your work or not) from day one. We on the other hand, will take the loss. And we all know the word for that :/ Shove your ultimatum you know where and realize you f**ked up! Now you need to be a big boy and take the hit like everyone else! |
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$15837.93 is the amount of money that was raised by the company from the IPO.
I have paid back 202.7945 BTC back into the company for a value of $3411.58 through reinvestment of dividends
I put 30 BTC of my own from my time solo mining into the company at the beginning (when BTC was at around $7.50, so about $225 from that)
I provided a building (with insurance) to house the machines which I valued at $200/month (far below what we would have actually paid to rent a space
(200*4 = $800)
I provided at least $500 of materials to build racks and a cooling system.
In addition to that, I logged 243 hours working directly on this project, at a rate of $35/hour.
(35*243 = $8505)
I also contracted the work of several others to help with electrical setup, rack setup, cooling setup, etc. as well as to help take care of the machines in the event that I was unable to attend to them.
I think that this is value I added to the company and value that I should be able to be remunerated for. I do not think I am being unfair in any of the prices or rates I listed. When all is said and done I have invested quite a bit of time and personal capital into this company that would have otherwise had to be paid for by the company, cutting into dividend payments and growth. My investment has easily been worth the $15837.93 that investors contributed.
Hey, This has gone to far... I've also invested a considerable sum of BTC's into SIN. Tawsix, 1. First of all, you have invested 202.7945 BTC which gives you about 270 shares, and even if you want it to look like you owned them from the beginning, you still owe us investors everything else but your 270 "paid-for shares". 2. Those 30 BTCs you can keep in my opinion. And don't you dare claim it in USD (if you can show us proof of you investing 30BTC more than your divends) 3. The building... Sorry mate, that's just not gonna work for me (us), this was your selling point trying to get investors. 4. Materials to build racks and cooling system. Not gonna work either, also a selling point you used to get investors. 5. 243 hours of logged work. On what? And hey! Selling point aswell. I remember a discussion saying something like "working for free, one of the benefits of taking the risks. 6. What contractors? Never heard of it. If you were to have these numbers in your initial calculations, no one would have bought a single share!!! You made us a promise remember? Now when the shit hits the fan and you are trying to do damage control... please remember that some of us believed in you and invested alot of money into you and your idea....BASED ON YOUR PROMISE!!! Do the right thing! /B (Thanks boonies4u, for the quote  ) |
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Update: Today is a good day, we've successfully gotten all seven rigs up and running! Tomorrow we will be migrating from btcmine.com to other pools (mining simultaneously on more than one pool with each card.) I will also be continuing work on a cooling system to allow for better overclocking.
Once again, thanks to everyone for your support and advice! We rode out the bumps and have entered production mode! Next on the agenda: dividends!
Nice work there Tawsix! |
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All shares orders were cancelled during the last GLBSE update. I guess tawsix will put the SIN ones back up for sale soon.
bing: I think it's dividend_per_share = total_dividend_payout / ownedshares
You can use the web client to make dividend payments. The total amount paid is divided over the sold shares. That means that shares in the issuers account get nothing(this is by system design). Nice! I'm one of those who likes to find errors in systems and you already thought of everything, perfect  Oh, btw, good work with the web-thingy! |
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All shares orders were cancelled during the last GLBSE update. I guess tawsix will put the SIN ones back up for sale soon.
bing: I think it's dividend_per_share = total_dividend_payout / ownedshares
With ownedshares you mean "Owned by investors"? And not total shares? The "unsold" shares is owned by tawsix, but there's no capital backing it. So I think it comes down to definition. Since the whole startup is financed by external investors, "unsold" shares shouldn't get divends since they haven't really contributed yet. |
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BTW, is the SIN-shares taken of the market?
Haven't seen any large sale on the ticker?
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Besides my opinion about paying out divends for expanding business, I have another questionmark...
How does the payouts work, if not all initial shares are paid?
Is it:
1.
BTCs * owned_shares / total_shares
or
2.
BTCs * owned_shares / (total_shares - left_of_initial_shares)
The second would be preferable though the divends should be based on the current investment made.
for example:
2000 shares is sold that gets us 10 rigs (example).
If the divends is calculated on 10000 shares that makes the divends based on 2 rigs instead of the 10 that the current investors have payed for. Only when all initial shares are sold, the divends can be based on 10000 shares.
I have trouble explaining this in a good way, Am I thinking all wrong here?
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9999, 74999999 <---- how is that possible?
this ask IS an error. its impossible. someone needs to contact Nefario to fix that asap. i'm at work. I notified Nefario after I wrote that |
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I'd like to add that I pledge to reinvest the first dividend payout that I receive into purchasing more SIN shares at the going rate on GLBSE rounded up to the nearest share.
I am likely to extend this pledge for future dividend payouts.
I say this simply because I would like to see long-term expansion via new investor funds, but believe that new investor funds will not happen without a dividend payout. I aim to make any dividend payout to myself as neutral for SIN as possible.
+1 I agree, this would help growing the business aswell. So, basically, by paying out divends, new investors will gain faith in SIN. But there will also be re-investment from the current shareholders. My opinion is that all the BTCs generated at this point should be payed out as divends, since then it's up to the shareholders to re-invest them. If, let say, 30% of the generated BTCs comes back as investments, the shares will be sold faster, and therefore you will get the capital you need to grow. Using mined BTCs for investments without getting any shares for it is a little bit unfair, since the first investors (like me) will basically give my investment to the investors which buys shares when they are almost sold out. If generated BTCs isn't payed out as divends, and instead invested by you into SIN, the best time to buy SIN-shares is at the end, when the initial shares are almost sold out, and by then, "my"(and other early investors) investments have made their impact on SIN, making us wait for payout, while late investors can cash out more faster. So without the divends, We, early investors, will gain less (over time) than late investors Don't get me wrong Tawsix, I like this idea and I believe in you. But just like eturnex, I'd like YOU to give the shareholders the choice and the opportunity to re-invest our divends into SIN, by simply... by paying out the divends |
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Hm, somethings wrong, somebody just put up 9999 shares for sale at GLBSE
depth SIN
1, 74800000
7, 74900000
9999, 74999999 <---- how is that possible?
3535, 75000000
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Did you put "bitcoin" as what the transaction was for? I put "other" as most of my transactions (no matter what they are) and have never had them ask any questions about it.
I used "other" and wrote something like this "Here's the payment for trade ID xxx at BCM" If they refund the money, I'll get them to djex another way...and I probably wont use paypal again...  This never happened before though... |
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Sukrim, that's a great idea for an asset contract, would work great on the exchange.
Yeah, I hope someone picks that up... Investing in a whole business and having theoretical voting rights there etc. is not interesting anyways for me at least, if I'm just interested in a mini-mining contract (which in the end of the day the SIN stocks are). I don't even want to go through hassles on voting on motions or waiting 30 days for the next dividend. My few daily millibitcents for my .50 BTC share would be much cooler - and also the shares would be far more attractive to others and might shoot up in price very quickly. A clever miner would even first hand out just a few % of shares of an existing rig, wait until they are sold out and under great demand and then slowly release the rest of the shares until the desired grade of distribution netting (now in the startup days) probably ENORMOUS profits! Edit: I'm even thinking of doing that myself, however my ~280MH/s machine is a bit too weak for that and operating a proper 24/7 rig is currently not in my focus (as it would need to be silent --> watercooled which drives prices up). +1 I wan't to be able to manage my bitcoins in a similar way of what I'm doing with my non-virtual currency. Since 7 years back, I've been feeding my money making machine and making a very good return from it, the basic idea is to put all my money to work. With you suggestion this makes this possible. |
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If there was a way to keep anonymity and still be able to create projects like this without the risk of being scammed, it would be perfect.
We're(BitcoinGlobal) working on that. Great stuff |
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You just got ripped off.
I know I'm taking a risk by stepping forward here, I'm the buyer in this case. Actually, he didn't get ripped of. I don't want a bad rating because Paypal is reviewing the transaction. Information from Paypal regarding the transaction: "This payment has been selected for review and we have opened an investigation." Reason: Inquiry by PayPal, Temporary Hold Status: Awaiting other party's response I also mailed djex back keeping me posted about the review, and if any problems occurs, we have to discuss a solution. djex, if you need me to contact Paypal in any way, mail me back. |
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Wouldn't he make much more actually building the mining rig than scamming? Exactly my thought, therefore my investment in SIN. If he's a scammer, well then some of my money goes down the drain. On the other hand, if he's not, I'll get a recurring income every month. I'd love to see more of these projects rather than mining at home (starting to get tired of the noise from my mining machine) or buying expensive capacity/month. If there was a way to keep anonymity and still be able to create projects like this without the risk of being scammed, it would be perfect. |
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