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Thank you for the review. What miner did you end up switching to? Is there a better company to deal with? Are there any good US manufacturers?
I'm now mining Dash with both Baikal miners and iBeLink miners. The prices have gone up quite significantly from when I first brought with them, and the technology has moved on quite a bit as well. I have heard some bad stories about people not getting their machines from Baikal, but I had no issues with them. I also had no issues with iBeLink, although I believe now there are some pretty lengthy wait periods until you actually receive your machines. And I'm not sure about any US manufactures. |
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I want use Baikal for mining too.
Where can I buy this machines? (where you bought it?)
My choice use 600 MH or 4 x 300 MH.
Thanks for advice.
Apologies for late response, you can buy baikal miners from https://www.baikalminer.com/. The Dash technology is moving pretty quickly now, so lots of demand. And the machines have become over priced in my view. It's sad to say, but Bitmain now has the cheapest Dash machines, I can't speak to their reliability though. |
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But a warning to anyone thinking about doing business with Bitmain, don’t!
I've been looking into setting up my own mining rig and I'm at the point of choosing a machine as well as which coin to focus on, but after reading your review and many other bad reviews, I think I'll stay clear of Bitmain. Do you or anyone else know of any other companies that sell bitcoin asics? That actually have a good reputation I mean... Bitmain's quality and customer service is definitely crap and your doing yourself a favor by staying away from them. As far as other sellers, I was originally looking at www.bw.com, but they wanted a minimum of 1 PH order from memory. I'm not sure if they still sell actual machines, I think they are getting into cloud mining now. |
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Does bulk order would be a lot cheaper?
I guess so... But you would have to send a representative to negotiate with them to get the best deal, otherwise they will just refer you to their website. Perhaps a big miner might give a better answer on this... |
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It's nearly impossible to run into profit with this thing, ROI for the unit cost is nearly 1 year, not yet count for rents, air-con, electricity and labor cost.
Bitcoin mining has become too centralized because of what you mention, mainly because the initial investment is pretty significant, for unit price and setup costs. Bitmain is too interested in profits to give smaller miners a chance at getting into the game. Plus the T9's 11.5TH is nowhere near powerful or efficient enough to give substantial enough returns for the price they ask. But running costs can be reduced if you setup in the right environment, as well as labor if you have the skills to do most of the work yourself. I think Bitmain just serves the big miners now, so if you're a small miner best to look into other crypto's to mine. |
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First off, The few times I've had to use Factory Warranty service it all went perfectly. One was a DOA s7, promptly replaced with a new one (yes I checked it out) after they got the dead one in China. 3 other times were dead boards, all promptly replaced.
It makes me wonder if the quality of service and product depends on the size of your purchase. Bitmain would no doubt be reluctant to send larger customers crappy products and they definitely wouldn't treat them like crap as well. To your others points, yeah those are definitely issues that Bitmain should have sorted out long ago if they had any type of professionalism. |
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I would strongly doubt that, however, even if it was true they would be doing you a big favour from this.
I seriously doubt they would be doing me a favour. The conditions of Bitmain's mine might not be operating in reasonable conditions, and such could cause degradation. And running the machines in their own mine for a certain amount of time could diminish the machines life capacity. Then sending the same machines off to a customer who does operate in a reasonable environment would be setting that customer up to fail. So in my mind there are no favours given. But I take your point about the bathtub curve of failure, that is a possible reason for my situation. Or to quote NotFuzzyWarm from another post "To squeeze out the highest possible yield of the 16nm chips Bitmain has seriously widened the QA window for what are "usable" vs good vs Prime chips". This is another possibility. Whichever the reason, Bitmain in my view cannot be trusted to provide a quality product, or a quality customer service for that matter. |
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What makes you believe your original hash board were new?
Good question! It's very possible that they weren't. I have long suspected that when Bitmain first manufactures their machines they run them in their own mine for a certain period of time, and then pass them off to their customers. Maybe the bigger miners get the least worked machines because they spend the most money, and the smaller purchasers get given the older machines with very little life span left. And if you claim warranty then maybe the boards they send you have even less life span, which seems to be the case with my replacements. It's a pretty good racket when you think about it. It's the perfect way to get rid of their old stock, because the machines are useless past a certain point. I have heard that there is a lot of corruption in China, and I would not put something like this past Bitmain. They are either doing this, or just selling a very low quality product. Either way, they cannot be trusted. |
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As always Bitmain at it's finest. Bitmain and it's owners ia cancer to all Crypto scene. Miners which break down like flies, Support for BU fork and list goes on and on., Feel bad for you and all who bought any of their recent miners (S9/T9/R4/L3)
Thanks. You're definitely right though! They seem to be a blight on the industry. I wonder how Bitcoin will survive with these charlatans running a muck... |
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There goes another quality Bitmain hash board. What a rort these people are!
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But either way, they are either selling a faulty product knowing that their customers are unlikely to even reach ROI, which is all kinds of wrong. Or they are selling second hand equipment from their own mine despite the law. IMHO it is your first one: To squeeze out the highest possible yield of the 16nm chips Bitmain has seriously widened the QA window for what are "usable" vs good vs Prime chips. Looking at speed/hash rate spread between boards I'd guess at least 3 levels are used for binning chips to be used when populating boards targeted for highest efficiency miners (s9/R4). Hopefully humorous example would be 'meh', good to very good, and finally best. Given the typ yield of 16nm that makes for probably 2-3x more 'meh' to good (say >80% of cores work) chips than best (>90% cores work at full speed) grade so.... Tie that with lapses in board assembly quality checks... On the 2 s9 boards I had fail the placement and soldering of the VRM was -- horrible. Frankly, surprised it passed at all considering the module was rotated enough to be just literally a hair breadth away from shorting right off the bat. How/why that wasn't caught by an inspection camera, who knows... With the T9 hopefully their sacrificing eff by pushing the Vcore higher is what results in otherwise 'good' grade chips performing as very-good or better. As to the board assembly - who knows... Your assessment is plausible, and if its true, then Bitmain has turned into the MacDonald's of the Crypto industry, willing to sacrifice quality for profit. I'm sure they will start to feel the results of this approach soon if they keep it up. I guess time will tell how their T9's go, but I for sure will not be doing any more business with them. |
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I'm using the Baikal 900 MH machines, they are good quality. I haven't had any issues with them. The only thing I wish they supported was static IP addresses, they only support DHCP. But apart from that a very good machine.
I had to read that twice to make sure I read it right. No static IP support? That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard all day. I would trade Static IP Support for a stable functioning machine any day of the week. Setting up a DHCP Server is not rocket science. |
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For the past 12 months I have been studying up on crypto-currencies, especially bitcoin. And once I gained enough knowledge I decided to start mining bitcoin. My plan was to start with a small number of machines, and try to build up from there. So I purchased 16 Antminer S9’s, and built my mine. I have quite a lot of experience in IT networking so setting up a quality network was not an issue, and my business partner has the electrical experience to wire up our power needs. We also studied up on the air requirements, and designed a hot- aisle cold-aisle system, as well as figured out the best make-up air including the appropriate air pressures that would best serve the machines.
In my opinion, we setup an optimal environment for the machines to have a long life span, but the result was something quite different. Within a 2 week period of operations 16 out of 48 hash boards had died, and another 3 a couple of weeks later.
So I went through the warranty process with Bitmain, and the experience was a disaster. Not only did I have to pay for shipping to Hong Kong, but once Bitmain had tested the hash boards and decided that they were indeed faulty, they then sent us 16 used hash boards. I mean these hash boards had serious signs of deterioration, I thought I was being punked for sure, there were burn marks, significant build ups of dust and dirt, and really just awful all over. I sent them near new faulty hash boards, and they sent me years old pieces of trash that I admit did work, but many of which have died since, and not long after going back into operation.
Bitmain is the type of company that will sell you a faulty product to begin with, and replace it with used second hand equipment, from their own mine no doubt. But what’s amazing is that they think there is nothing wrong with that. In most western countries if you return a faulty product, the company will either repair it, or replace it with a new part. This whole experience just highlights the stark difference between the values of the west and east.
So in the end I won’t recoup all of my initial investment let alone make a profit with the machines, but it turns out that I’ve made money trading the mining rewards I have received, plus I’ve moved over into mining Dash instead, they are much better machines, and a much better crypto-currency as well. But a warning to anyone thinking about doing business with Bitmain, don’t! They will take your money gladly, and they'll even send you the machines, but you have no guarantee that the machines aren't faulty in the first place, and an absolute certainty that you'll get given crap in replacement of broken equipment. So just don’t expect them to have any basic sense of western business ethics or values.
I have also realized that many of the companies I have dealt with in China, but Bitmain especially, can be really quite arrogant. So don’t expect to be treated like an actual customer, expect something more along the lines of we’ll take your money, and then treat you like crap afterwards if you have any problems, much like an insurance company.
Oh, and if you happen to ignore my advice and end up speaking to a support person by the name of Quentin down the road somewhere, then I’m afraid you have reached the asshole that insurance companies usually throw at you when you make a claim. So best of luck with your endeavors either way!
hi, can you please tell me what miners do you use for mining Dash? Thanks I'm using the Baikal 900 MH machines, they are good quality. I haven't had any issues with them. The only thing I wish they supported was static IP addresses, they only support DHCP. But apart from that a very good machine. |
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I have over 100 T9s running with zero failures so far. They clown on the S9 for reliability. IMO the efficiency trade-off is well worth it since its likely an S9 wont run problem free until you reach ROI and it looks like these T9s will.
I wonder whether the efficiency trade-off translates into selling used equipment from their own mine. The second hand equipment they gave me in replacement of my faulty boards was definitely from their mine, but I wonder if they are selling second hand machines as new.
How long until you reach your ROI do you think? And how long have you been running your T9's? Even in China, selling used anything as New violates the law. Sure that only really works for Chinese Nationals as far as prosecuting goes but it IS excellent grounds for FTC to bar imports so. Bottom line is no they don't/can't. For warranty replacement them using reworked/repaired boards is allowed and in fact is very commonplace throughout most electronics industries. As for getting dirty/dusty miners... Ever been to any large city in Asia?  When it's dry they are often very dusty places. The miners are typically all burned in for at least 72hrs in open buildings. Dry out of the rain yes but sucking all that city air well you get the picture. Just because it's law does not mean they adhere to it, I know many Chinese companies that use bitcoin to evade their taxes, so the law would appear to be relative in many cases. But either way, they are either selling a faulty product knowing that their customers are unlikely to even reach ROI, which is all kinds of wrong. Or they are selling second hand equipment from their own mine despite the law. I had around one third of my boards die within 2 weeks of operations, so one of my 2 scenarios is true. And as for replacing warranty parts with second hand equipment, I have never received second hand equipment in replacement for broken electronic equipment. Even if it does happen a lot in Asia, it's still a bad practice and shows contempt towards the customer. |
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I have over 100 T9s running with zero failures so far. They clown on the S9 for reliability. IMO the efficiency trade-off is well worth it since its likely an S9 wont run problem free until you reach ROI and it looks like these T9s will.
I wonder whether the efficiency trade-off translates into selling used equipment from their own mine. The second hand equipment they gave me in replacement of my faulty boards was definitely from their mine, but I wonder if they are selling second hand machines as new. How long until you reach your ROI do you think? And how long have you been running your T9's? |
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I don't trust Bitmain in the slightest, no new product they bring out will overcome their very poor business ethics. Ja your experience with them truly sucks. Thankfully most people fair much better. The T9 on order will make it 82 Ants I've gotten since 2014 and to date exactly 4 boards failed. 1 from an old s7, 1 from a R4 batch-6 failed after 24hrs and 2 s9 boards 1 a batch 1 the other batch 12, both failed Nov-Dec last year. It's good to know they aren't ripping everyone off. Although I am very hesitant to believe that I would be among the minority who have had such experiences. Based on how I was treated, they do seem to have a certain amount of contempt for their customers, and this could translate into a low quality product. I'd like to know who else has had similar horror stories... |
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For the past 12 months I have been studying up on crypto-currencies, especially bitcoin. And once I gained enough knowledge I decided to start mining bitcoin. My plan was to start with a small number of machines, and try to build up from there. So I purchased 16 Antminer S9’s, and built my mine. I have quite a lot of experience in IT networking so setting up a quality network was not an issue, and my business partner has the electrical experience to wire up our power needs. We also studied up on the air requirements, and designed a hot- aisle cold-aisle system, as well as figured out the best make-up air including the appropriate air pressures that would best serve the machines.
In my opinion, we setup an optimal environment for the machines to have a long life span, but the result was something quite different. Within a 2 week period of operations 16 out of 48 hash boards had died, and another 3 a couple of weeks later.
So I went through the warranty process with Bitmain, and the experience was a disaster. Not only did I have to pay for shipping to Hong Kong, but once Bitmain had tested the hash boards and decided that they were indeed faulty, they then sent us 16 used hash boards. I mean these hash boards had serious signs of deterioration, I thought I was being punked for sure, there were burn marks, significant build ups of dust and dirt, and really just awful all over. I sent them near new faulty hash boards, and they sent me years old pieces of trash that I admit did work, but many of which have died since, and not long after going back into operation.
Bitmain is the type of company that will sell you a faulty product to begin with, and replace it with used second hand equipment, from their own mine no doubt. But what’s amazing is that they think there is nothing wrong with that. In most western countries if you return a faulty product, the company will either repair it, or replace it with a new part. This whole experience just highlights the stark difference between the values of the west and east.
So in the end I won’t recoup all of my initial investment let alone make a profit with the machines, but it turns out that I’ve made money trading the mining rewards I have received, plus I’ve moved over into mining Dash instead, they are much better machines, and a much better crypto-currency as well. But a warning to anyone thinking about doing business with Bitmain, don’t! They will take your money gladly, and they'll even send you the machines, but you have no guarantee that the machines aren't faulty in the first place, and an absolute certainty that you'll get given crap in replacement of broken equipment. So just don’t expect them to have any basic sense of western business ethics or values.
I have also realized that many of the companies I have dealt with in China, but Bitmain especially, can be really quite arrogant. So don’t expect to be treated like an actual customer, expect something more along the lines of we’ll take your money, and then treat you like crap afterwards if you have any problems, much like an insurance company.
Oh, and if you happen to ignore my advice and end up speaking to a support person by the name of Quentin down the road somewhere, then I’m afraid you have reached the asshole that insurance companies usually throw at you when you make a claim. So best of luck with your endeavors either way!
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