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1  Economy / Economics / Total power used to create the Bitcoin blockchain on: September 15, 2020, 03:05:55 AM
Just a few moments ago this question popped to my mind. I was curious and asked myself how much raw power was used in the process of building the Bitcoin blockchain.

Actually this is a very interesting and research paper worthy question to answer, after all we're building the new digital pyramids of our era brick by brick - or better block by block. I started the question in the Wall Observer thread, but I'd like to concentrate the discussion and the research in a specific thread so it won't get buried under thousands of pages.

xhomerx10 started to work on it already and just came up with a very interesting observation, that even the bandwidth should be accounted in the equation to get an accurate picture.

Here are the postings from the WO thread:


An interesting question just popped in my mind:

How much kWh was used to create the current Blockchain?

Should be somehow possible to calculate it based on the given mining hardware and mining difficulty.


From inception or for each new block?  


Purely from a scientific point of view. And from inception, thus the genesis block.

Would be nice to see(feel) the monumental work and energy that was put to secure the blockchain and to get an impression and a feel of how much power was used to create this distributed ledger.


An interesting question just popped in my mind:

How much kWh was used to create the current Blockchain?

Should be somehow possible to calculate it based on the given mining hardware and mining difficulty.

Possible to estimate, yes; but I don’t see how it could be easy.  That would require cost/efficiency estimates for every generation of miners:  CPU (various optimized implementations and CPU models), GPU (ditto), FPGA, every generation of ASIC...

Does a collection of those historical data even exist anywhere?  If you folks discussing this were to gather in the first instance, the effort may be worth a research paper.  Maybe one already exists (with data up to some past point).


Purely from a scientific point of view. And from inception, thus the genesis block.

Would be nice to see(feel) the monumental work and energy that was put to secure the blockchain and to get an impression and a feel of how much power was used to create this distributed ledger.

I don’t think that the historical electricity cost would give a clear view of the current security of the Bitcoin blockchain.  With ASIC hardware, you could easily outrun the whole early CPU-mined Bitcoin network at drastically lower energy cost!  Of course, as you continued rewriting blockchain history, sooner or later, you would slam into the historical point at which the real Bitcoin network’s hashrate exceeded your hardware’s capabilities.  From that point onwards, you would just get further and further behind with your fake blockchain, as the chaintip of the real Bitcoin network keeps advancing faster than you can chase it.*

Still, yes, the energy-cost accounting would be historically interesting.

purely for science

The real kind!

(* And one of the marvellous properties of the Nakamoto Consensus is that the “real” chain can be selected by an isolated node with no information except the block data alleging one or more consensus-rule valid chains.  Most-work (not “longest”) chain wins, and that’s that.  Not even a trustworthy realtime clock source is required.  It is the whole point of how this is supposed to work; but somehow, I often see people missing it—usually when they want to suggest some “improvement” which would break Bitcoin’s security without even achieving what they expect.)




What people forget on these type calculations is all those that mined but didn't win a block, that is part of the calculations as that is what creates the dif.


Working on it...

 Transferring 10 MB of data uses about the amount of energy in a AA battery which is 0.0039 kWh
Here are the top ten viewed YouTube music videos and the number of times they were viewed (while I compiled this tonight).

Song_Title_Artist__Uniform_Resource_Locator__Number_of_Views_
DespacitoLuis_Fonsi_ft._Daddy_Yankeehttps://youtu.be/kJQP7kiw5Fk6965149726
Baby_SharkPINKFONGhttps://youtu.be/XqZsoesa55w6555048616
Shape_of_YouEd_Sheeranhttps://youtu.be/JGwWNGJdvx84974976171
See_You_AgainWiz_Khalifa_ft._Charlie_Puthhttps://youtu.be/RgKAFK5djSk4721137015
Uptown_FunkMark_Ronson_ft._Bruno_Marshttps://youtu.be/OPf0YbXqDm03945458571
Gangnam_Style_PSYhttps://youtu.be/9bZkp7q19f03782347210
SorryJustin_Bieberhttps://youtu.be/fRh_vgS2dFE3338412458
SugarMaroon_5https://youtu.be/09R8_2nJtjg3281040028
RoarKaty_Perryhttps://youtu.be/CevxZvSJLk83172242295
Thinking_Out_LoudEd_Sheeranhttps://youtu.be/lp-EO5I60KA3072397098

 The average video play time is ~ 4 minutes which equates to about 40 MB of data transfer per video per view.
The total number of views for the 10 songs above is 43808209188.
This translates to 683408063.3328 kWh of energy for the data transfer alone.  

 I'm just warming up.  Thanks for the confidence and the pressure JJG, it will help me to achieve the optimal level of arousal required to complete my mission.

 Wait, should I even bother to include data transfer for pool mining or just the CPU/GPU/FPGA/ASIC power required for hashing?

  Don't worry @Hueristic.  I'll use the network hash rate in my calculation to ensure the energy usage from all miners is included.

edit: SMF seems to insert superfluous breaks when translating BBcode to HTML.


Damn, that's the spirit - awesome !

I was thinking of only the power required to run the hash rate. But if transferring the block chain to thousands of different peers at a specific time (different sizes, varying amount of nodes, etc) makes an extra impact to the total power usage, it would be awesome to include it as well for the big picture.

My main idea is to have a given number to show how much raw power was put into building the blockchain, to show that it is not backed by nothing, but that we are building the new digital pyramids.
2  Local / Deutsch (German) / Jemand Zugang zu Welt.de Plus? Bitcoin Artikel erschienen. on: May 12, 2017, 12:22:51 PM
Hallo Miteinander,

hat hier zufällig jemand Zugang zu Welt.de Plus Artikeln und könnte den Artikel Text rauskopieren und allen zugänglich machen ?

https://www.welt.de/finanzen/article164490994/Bitcoins-sind-das-neue-Gold.html

Beste Grüße,
Wex
3  Economy / Speculation / Speculation: Will Bitcoin fee reward reach parity with block reward this epoch ? on: March 12, 2017, 05:10:55 PM
In block 456645 3.847 Btc were paid for transactions. This is a percentage of 30% of the current block reward of 12.5 Btc. Obviously this was an exceptional situation: just after the declined ETF decision.




After 8 years Bitcoin reached a state where the 24 h average block size averages at 0.98 Megabytes.


In the current situation there is no more transaction data througput possible anymore, therefore the fee has to increase in a working fee market to include transactions in a block.


And it is increasing due to still higher Bitcoin adoption in an exponential fashion.


My speculation is: The fee and block rewards will reach parity in the next epoch, but if the exponential fee price increase continues it might even reach parity in this epoch if the situation is again as exceptional as the SEC decision was for the Bitcoin market participents.
If the trend continues, Bitcoin in its current form will fully transforms into a settlement layer. Still highly decentralised, but many users will be priced out.

Current SegWirt support:
26%

Current BU support:
30%
4  Other / Meta / Please enable ignore by signature on: February 09, 2016, 05:42:04 PM
I really would like to ignore user based on their/a specific signature. Most of them just spam nonsense only to get a higher payment.
There are a few campaigns that promote spam, I really dislike it and would be happy to block them altogether.

Could something like this be implemented ?
5  Economy / Speculation / China's trading pattern confirmed: 21h sleep, 3h action on: December 06, 2015, 05:45:21 PM


Looks extremely weird.
6  Other / Meta / Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 18, 2015, 01:43:43 PM
Was moved to the altcoin section.

Discuss.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68655.0
7  Local / Presse / Bitcoin News auf computerbase.de on: July 17, 2015, 05:09:40 PM
News:

http://www.computerbase.de/2015-07/bitcoins-virtuelles-zahlungsmittel-gewinnt-zunehmend-an-zuspruch/

Kommentare:

http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1494268

Smiley
8  Economy / Speculation / real-world bitcoin usage: store of value on: July 03, 2015, 03:19:39 PM
Crosspost from reddit

Quote
Venezuelan here.

My country has had capital controls since 2002. Buying outside our country is a nightmare. You can get prosecuted for simple things like buying gift cards with penalties such as removing FOR LIFE your annual quota of a paltry $300 on credit cards. You can't use any other means to buy goods or pay services besides credit cards. The dollar has been pegged to a crazy 6.3 VEF/USD since some years ago (up from another crazier 4.3 VEF/USD).

Since half a year ago, i've kept ALL MY WEALTH in Bitcoin... yes ALL. Every single VEF i get, after buying food, gets converted to Bitcoin immediatly.

Not Dollars.

Not Euros.

Not GBP.

Bitcoin.

I have almost triplicated my wealth since i made that move. When the black market exchange rate was 150 VEF/USD, i held Bitcoin. Some weeks ago the black market exchange went to ~450 VEF/USD. Guess what, i feel like a rich man. I can maintain my WHOLE FAMILY OF 5 (food, basic services, debt) with just .3 BTC/month. The rest gets stashed away.

Also, i began mining. 1 Antminer S5 gives me, after electricity costs (which are almost non-existent, electricity cost here is a joke) the same wage my wife and i earn (we're both engineers) TWICE a month.

Your government will do stupid things, i guarantee it. Don't trust a single drachma/euro to them. If you want to hedge, use something like Bitreserve, but believe me, wild price swings aren't that important dealing with Bitcoin when your other alternative is a highly manipulable, fractional-reserve backed, fiat money.

If you want more specifics, pm me.

And this is only the beginning.
9  Economy / Speculation / These are the 2 main events that start the next rally: on: September 12, 2014, 10:04:43 PM
The next rally starts, when one of these events happens:

  • #1 ETF
  • #2 Paypal bitcoin wallet integration and one-click bitcoin purchase through paypal


explanation
#1 I think that is obvious
#2 Paypal has 152 million users. And now imagine what happens when only 1% decide to buy one full bitcoin. The CEO is a bitcoin fan. It's only a matter of time when the implementation happens.
10  Economy / Speculation / Who else is waiting for the next buying opportunity ? on: September 07, 2014, 07:08:50 PM
I put a nice little sum on the sideline. Waiting for the next big swing. If the market moves below 400 i will cash in everything.
11  Economy / Economics / I will increase my %-possesion of the bitcoin ledger every day on: September 04, 2014, 07:37:49 PM
I will invest 10$ per day to buy more bitcoins. Thus in the long term i increase my percentage of the network.

With 25 btc per block the network has a daily 0.0272% inflation.

If you invest more than 14 cent per day at the current price for every bitcoin you own, you increase your percentage compared to the whole network.

Soon i will become a whale.  Cool

(Just had some fun playing with numbers)
12  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / End of industrial mining profitability at 246128630902 difficulty =897% increase on: September 02, 2014, 03:37:05 PM
At the current price per coin with a "conservative" 10 % hashrate increase per adjustment, we will reach this point in (23*2)*0.9=41.4 weeks.

That is a 897% increase of the current difficulty. Quite interesting informations if you think about the future nethash and the future of bitcoin mining.

I made the calculation based on a antminer s3 and a 440gh/366watt ratio running with 5 cent/kw. I think this is one of the lowest electricity prices possible.

http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator/?h=440.00&p=366.00&pc=0.05&pf=0.00&d=246128630902.25800000&r=25.00000000&er=487.15000000&hc=0.00

The question is, how much more efficient future miners will be ?


Difficulty   Adjustment
27428630902.00   0
30171493992.20   1
33188643391.42   2
36507507730.56   3
40158258503.62   4
44174084353.98   5
48591492789.38   6
53450642068.32   7
58795706275.15   8
64675276902.66   9
71142804592.93   10
78257085052.22   11
86082793557.44   12
94691072913.19   13
104160180204.51   14
114576198224.96   15
126033818047.45   16
138637199852.20   17
152500919837.42   18
167751011821.16   19
184526113003.28   20
202978724303.60   21
223276596733.96   22
245604256407.36   23

13  Economy / Service Discussion / What happened with the arbitrage ponzis ? on: August 29, 2014, 06:10:07 PM
Are they still active and running ?

I didn't read anything new about them anymore.
14  Economy / Speculation / I am so incredibly bored of bitcoin on: August 26, 2014, 07:34:18 PM
I am so bored of bitcoin.

When i started reading about bitcoin in august/september 2013 i was so hyped up over this new and revolutionary tech. I was reading forums and reddits from morning till evening. I invested in mining gear and made my first slow steps in the crypto revolution. The bubble was just awesome, i was staring the whole day on my priceticker app on my smartphone. It went up, and down, and up and crashed. And up again. Fucking adrenaline !

But now, i think i am sick. I have the crypto fatigue. It's just not exciting anymore.

Wow, there is a new PoS ?? It's called DPoS !! Meh, whatever. It's still PoS.
Wow, there is a new altcoin ?? It has feature XYZ !! Meh, whatever. I saw the same feature in 10 different coins.
Wow, there is a new asset blockchain ?? Meh, it's the fifth now ?
Wow, there is a new mining algorithm !! Check it out - forever asic resistent !! Meh, seriously ?? Another algo? Just die.


Everything was fresh and i saw opportunities everywhere. Now it's just gray and boring.

I managed to pile a few bitcoins when i thought it reached the bottom (most of my buys happened in the 350-450$ range) and now i continue to buy ~200$ of bitcoins every month when the price dips a little. I had 10 gpu's and it was exciting as fuck to mine and manage and babysit my rigs. Now, i sold most of them. With the rest i am mining monero - what else ? The rigs are running, nothing to babysit anymore.

Reading forums is just plain and simple boring. Nothing happens. There are almost zero really interesting/intellectual threads. Just a few trolls crying over 15$ price swings. Wow, the adrenaline !!!
Nothing groundbreaking will happen in the near future. We all are waiting for the ETF. And of course bitcoin will increase in value. It is just an inevitable fact. We are all early adopters. But it won't happen because a logarithmic trend line screams for the start of a new bubble. It will happen through adoption and the money flow caused by the ETF. Stop being unrealistic with your expectations.

There is nothing left to do.

My train ticket is bought. My crypto knowledge is solid enough. My coins are secured.


Now, i can only wait.

But it's so incredibly boring.
15  Local / Mining (Deutsch) / Günstigster Stromtarif on: August 12, 2014, 08:12:44 PM
Hallo Miner,

gibt es in Deutschland eine Möglichkeit Strom besonders günstig zu bekommen ? Was sind die günstigsten Privatpersonen Tarife ? Ich denke bei 0,25cent pro kWh ist Schluss, zumindest hab ich nichts günstigeres in meiner Gegend gefunden. (Aachen)

Gibt es Angebote, die einem günstigen Industriestrom verkaufen ? Eventuell gelagert in einer Halle ?

Anders gefragt, wie realisiert ihr das Minen bei den, im globalen Vergleich, verrückten Strompreisen hier in Deutschland ?
16  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Cryptonite M7 gpu miner on: August 05, 2014, 10:00:51 AM
Can someone give me a link to the gpu miner?

With the recent nethash explosion it is obvious that someone is mining with it.


(yes, this is a rant about the release of a good coin with a new algo, but without a simultaneous release of a fair gpu miner)
17  Economy / Speculation / I want to learn! on: May 28, 2014, 06:38:22 AM
Hello ! Smiley

Can someone give me a list of good books or information sources regarding trading / ta analysis / speculation ?

I m "trading" just for fun and i even made a little bit of profit, but most of the time i m just wildly guessing. I justt ry to buy low and sell high - if thats not working, then i m bagholding like a champ.  ~:)

But i really would like to improve. For example: understanding fibbonacci or all the other special terms.

Where did you learn your skills ?

Thanks in advance
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