I am talking coins like,

Android Tokens,
InfiniteCoin,
DodgeCoin

I can't see how practical they can be with a billion coins in existence. Are they good investments?

Hey everyone,

Long time bear here, and missed my opportunity to buy in cheap because I was being too greedy and cheap at the time.

Anyway, $1000 bitcoins seems ridiculous, especially if you were buying them for less then $5.00.

However, It seems that nothing is able to stop this bitcoin price from falling. Even with the most negative news out there recently it just rose back up.

Are any of you serious bears who think or thought $1000 bitcoins are just ridiculous are rethinking your position?

Seems like $800 dollars is the next resistance level for a larger fall. When do you think $800 will be broken?

My guess is within the next 8 hours.

Seems like I'm reliving the first bitcoin bubble which I was very active in.

I got into it when bitcoin first rose up to around $30 in 2010 or 2011, I forget now. I wanted to buy and I was in the forums listening to all the euphoric people. I slowly watched it lose steam, regain steam, and slowly look weaker and weaker.

To me right now bitcoin just looks weak and I think it will be going much lower during the next few weeks.

Just like in 2011, I told everybody while the price was still over $20 that they were crazy to not take profits and cash out at that time. Wasn't a few months it was at $2.00. Call me stupid but I did call $1.00 bitcoins at that time for a long time even though people thought it was crazy and flamed me to hell, I missed my $1.00 range to buy in as it hit $2.01. I was close enough. Same stupid mistake was I predicted oil would hit $20 a barrel in around 2008, it hit like $30, my plan to buy in big at $20 and I missed that opportunity.

While I don't hit my marks, at least I predict big downfalls, contrary to what most people believe.

I'm going to say to everybody that if you are not unloading a large portion of your bitcoins over $1000, you are simply crazy as a $1000 bitcoin is just not sustainable, and is outright ludicrous at this time. I am going to even say further that you are ridiculously stupid if you don't cash out a sizeable amount at over $1000, especially if your bitcoins were bought below $100.

The reason why bitcoin hit around $30 the first time, and over $1000 this time is that their are big players or manipulators, I like to call them. They pump the price up high, get people euphoric and get interest into the coin, then slowly dump the coin to make profits. Pump and dump I guess you can call the strategy.

This strategy simply works, it almost gets me (probably the most frugal person in the world) to buy bitcoins during the first bubble at $30, and even now at $1000. Because I am the most frugal person around I just can't get myself to buy at ridiculously stupid price points. I wait to buy at what you would consider my stupid price points, which get close but never hit. My point is that if these manipulators get frugal people like me to consider buying at these insane prices, it gets a lot of normal people to pump money into the system in which they profit from.

My last point is, don't be stupid and greedy and take money from these rich manipulators. They will soon be letting the price fall very soon and doing a controlled drop while cashing out all the coins they accumulated when bitcoin was much cheaper.

Flame away, but I will stick to my position.

I have been away form bitcoin for a couple of years amd now with the recent news decided to come back and play around.

I must say it is extremely difficult to get money into the system to buy bitcoins. In the past, it was simple, just fund dwolla and you were set.

Dealing with the various exchanges has been a lot of trouble and I really do not even want to continue going through all the different verifications, international wire transfers, etc. Plus when I go to post in the forum sections where people discuss the exchanges, it is riddled with people who are missing money, claiming scams, etc.

I am not saying it is impossible to get my money into the system, just that it is difficult and time consuming. Plus you have to wait a really long time.

What I trying to say is that don't think new fresh money is going to be coming into bitcoin in any large quantity that will make a difference on the price. It is just the same old money and well funded speculators that are moving the bitcoin price. Same deal as it was in 2011.

I tried coinbase but they make me wait a week to receive my bitcoins and I do not want to wait. I am also turned off by their high exchange fees.

Can someone recommend an exchange that I can send money  to and buy bitcoins that I can actually use without waiting a week?

I live in USA.

Right now I am looking at an exchange like mt gox, btc-e, bitstamp.

What is the best way to transfer money to these exchanges?

Thanks for any advice you can give me. 

First I want to say that I would like If only bears here post. The reason why is I want to get the opinion only of people who think that the current price is unsustainable.

I get plenty of bull reasons on 99% of the other posts. I already know why bitcoin will reach 1 million dollars and how it is going to continue to go up. I am not looking for an argument here or more reasons why the price is cheap from people like this. I was around during the first bubble in 2010 and heard the same reasons as the price went form $30 to $2.00.

What I am curious about is how bitcoin can reach such a high price and actually hold? I would think many people still have coins from when they were single digits or even pennies and would be unloading now to become millionaires.

I also think that there would be a lot of people cashing out at these prices and because the price is so high that the few buyers who would actually buy for $800 could not keep the price up.

Here are some reasons why I think the price may be temporary so high.

1) There seems to be no easy way to cash out large sums of bitcoins. I have read posts where people who want to unload big time can not do it so easily.
2) The people that own bitcoins are just hording them and waiting for the price to go even higher
3) Bitcoins have changed hands so much now that many people who held large quantities of them have sold them already
3) There are a few big money players (or manipulators) who are trying to bring the price to new levels to get higher demand and price in the long run.
4) These same manipulators are trying to get the price to $1000 so that they can split bitcoin up into 1000 mbtc or something.

Does anyone think that the price is unsustainable and there is no way that the demand for these bitcoins can support such a high price? Do you think that eventually when people start cashing out it will drop huge because the demand simply isn't there to support paying off all the people who want to cash out?

I simply can just not believe that the demand for bitcoins is so great right now that they are truly worth $800. I personally have trouble buying bitcoins right now as I have been away from bitcoins for a couple of years.

I am hopefully looking for some like minded individuals who also believe that the current price is unsustainable and simply crazy.

Seems like their strategy is to not buy bitcoins, as they have already bought 10's of thousands on the way down. They are slowly trying to inch the price by using walls and having forcing the suckers to buy just above their walls.

They are not buying any coins, even at what you guys consider a low of $4.3.

They seem to not want to buy any more new coins. They seem to be getting more brave and are slowly increasing the bid walls and taking more risk of someone dumping on them. I guess they figure that nobody has dumped in a while so they are safe to resume their little tactics of tryign to bump the price higher.

I think the manipulators or major bitcoin holders, who decided to sell at $5.6 to push the price down are just waiting for the price to go up a bit higher until they do another dump.

It would seem to be a good gamble with all their walls to buy now, but I see extreme risk of more dumps coming.

Volume is extremely low since the manipulators are not doing any buying and selling. Mostly everyone seems to be sitting out.

I just do not understand how they are making money with all their manipualtion attempts. I wish I could see how much the manipulators are actually making with their little games.



Bid 3.8 4432.47
Bid 3.85 5410.89
Bid 3.9 21823.49
Bid 3.95 1773.05
Bid 4 9079.59
Bid 4.05 10124.47
Bid 4.1 3057.88
Bid 4.15 4419.01
Bid 4.2 12459.31
Bid 4.25 5084.31
Bid 4.3 4133.73
Bid 4.35 416.77
Ask 4.4 2807.38
Ask 4.45 4741.47
Ask 4.5 6702.95
Ask 4.55 6525
Ask 4.6 4892.1
Ask 4.65 2527.31

I have an bad feeling that we will see a very bad drop this time around.

The major players / manipulators seemed to have completely exited the market. Seems they have failed trying to hold that massive $5.6 bidwall that I have spoken about in the past. I have stated that if we break $5 all hell would break loose, and I think that is what is happening right now.

I am not so certain they will spend the money trying to push up the price like they did the last time or at least not anytime soon.

Remember, we almost broke into the $1.99 range until a manipulator decided to put in a 50K bidwall at low $2's. This same person tried to prevent the drop below $5.00 recently by also placing a $50K bidwall at the last minute in the $5.2 range. I do not know if anyone watched it, but I was watching it live as he tried to prevent the drop but his bidwalls were completely sold into. What is odd this manipulator always places 50K bidwalls, I think he wants to signal that it is him, that is why he uses the 50K bidwall amount. But his bidwalls failed.


Since the manipulator(s), after spending a ridiculous amount of money trying to prevent the drop from $5.00, are completely absent from the market now makes me think they do not mind how far it drops at this point. They will easily welcome a drop into the $1's or possibly below. If they did care, why are they not trying to stop the fall right now? Why are they completely absent from the market? Just look at the damn mtgox demand, it is non-existent compared to what it was. And the price is currently what you people would consider cheap.

Not sure how many bitcoins are made new everyday now but lets assume 7,000. 7,000 bitcoins * 4 = 28,000. Do you think the small bitcoin community has $28,000 dollars a day coming into it? Or better yet $840,000 dollars a month of new cash coming into it?

Lets assume $2.00 per bitcoin, 7,000 * $2 = $14,000 a day. Do you think the bitcoin community even has $14,000 dollars new money coming into it every single day to support all these new coins? This would take $420,000 dollars a month!

Now you are probably thinking, well, most miners hold their bitcoins. Well lets assume that 2,000 coins that are mined each day are sold. $2,000 * 2 = $4000 or $120,000 a month. Does the market have coming into it $120,000 a month?

What happens with all these bitcoins that miners horde and do not sell. Lets assume 5,000 bitcoins a day are horded. Well that means after a month 150,000 bitcoins are now being saved and horded. Lets assume 3% of those coins each day want to be sold 150,000 * 3% = 4500 bitcoins a day being sold.

These numbers are just to show an example of why bitcoins even at $2.00 is way over valued. Bitcoin has still proven to be as useless as ever, even with time. Tradehill has shut down its operations. How long before Mt. Gox runs into funding options.

Nothing is new what I wrote here, we should have never went above $2.00 to begin with. Looks like the big market players are also rethinking their strategy here. They can not hold the price up artificially, they have failed every time they have done so and probably lost 10's of thousands of dollars doing it. Seems like they are able to spike the market temporarily, but it stalls and heads right back down, always making a new market Low.

I believe that the market players / manipulators wanted the price to spike to the $30's or even higher again. Like they were able to do the first time around. They failed this time at doing that and were only able to spike it to $7.2 before running into major resistance.

Market fundamentals will always play out in the long run. The manipulators do not have the unlimited funds, that even I think they have.

The only chance bitcoin will have going higher is if the manipulator, who I have been watching his markets movements since the drop from $30, decides it is time to re spike the market. He may do this because he has bought probably between 300,000 and 500,000 of bitcoins and probably still owns most of them. He is really your guys only hope for a turn around. Either that or bitcoin somehow becomes a desirable form of payment from the average joe shmoe. But don't even count on that, especially when the dollar right now is a very good form for a medium of exchange.

I am sorry to say guys that if you hold bitcoins now, expect to lose lots of your value. Expect bitcoin price to head into the $1's.



 

Loving every minute of it. Kind of got sick of hearing all you optimists since we sprang up from $2.

I have watched these bitcoins drops so many times already. They always play out the same way.

The bitcoin buyer manipulator who throws in his 30,000-50,000 bidwalls in an attempt to stop the price fall has pretty much been out of the picture. His attemps happened two days ago when he tried to stop a fall from going below $5.00 by throwing up his 50K bidwalls. His 50K bidwalls were sold into.
From watching the numerous past bitcoin drops he usually stays out of the game after his 50K bidwalls get taken down. I am not sure why he does this, but he will not be back into the game until we go significantly lower. Last time he stayed out of the game until we dropped into LOW 2's.

We broke out to $4.2 today, the people in the know are dumping their coins. They have sold and dumped and will wait to we get much lower to start buying again. They did not sell their coins now, to start buying them back right now. They are smart, they will wait until we are much lower to buy back.

There is no market manipulator trying to put in huge 15K-50K bidwalls right now. Bid demand is very weak. Take a look for yourself. It looks like the only serious bidwall is all the way at $3.6. Nobody is trying to halt the drop of bitcoins right now.

We going to be going down pretty low. But who said we should have been as high as we were. Remember, bitcoins were almost at $1 just a month or so ago.  

What I think is happening is the price stagnated for so long that some market players decided it was time to push the bitcoin price back down. remember, volume was very lower before this drop, reaching sometimes only 20K a day.
This may be a rinse and repeat strategy by the big money. They pushed the price up, dumped, and now there is no market movement up anymore, they will push the price back down. Buy low, repeat, and push the price back up. It was obvious that someone was trying to push the price lower for a few days now and finally broke through.


Bid 3.6 12372.94
Bid 3.65 6870.15
Bid 3.7 2233.72
Bid 3.75 1283.81
Bid 3.8 1244.09
Bid 3.85 3915.88
Bid 3.9 2073.76
Bid 3.95 897.27
Bid 4 8775.07
Bid 4.05 3737.85
Bid 4.1 4884.19
Bid 4.15 2246.68
Bid 4.2 4387.08
Bid 4.25 2336.11
Bid 4.3 3290.96
Bid 4.35 522.77
Bid 4.4 3032.33
Bid 4.45 2704.86
Bid 4.5 2575.17
Bid 4.55 1346.39
Bid 4.6 396.41


Edit: someone made a point below saying that my advice should not be taken seriously because of some other prediction I said. Well he has a point in that, being that there was an obvious price floor at around $5.6, and being that it was well defended at that point. Also being that someone was able to completly sell through that price floor, using 100,000's of bitcoins to do so and was able to get through. This should be more to my point that this person intends the price to be going much lower and has the coins to sell through any resistence or manipulators trying to stop him.
We are going down pretty hard.

Just a friendly warning,   

Sell your bitcoins before we break the $5.00 wall, because once we do we will probably be testing $2.00 again.

I own bitcoins that I bought at 5.2, and am in the process of selling them before we break the $5.00 wall.

It is driving me nuts why $5.6 seems to be the price bitcoins is currently being stable at.

Why do you guys think that bitcoins can't seem to fall below or above around $5.6.

If it falls below that point, it is quickly bought back up to $5.6 or above.

If it goes above $5.6, it seems to fall back to that point.

Is this just the psychological price level? Is it a price that market players decided to set a price floor at and if so why?

Whats going on?

To me it looks like market players put a price floor at around $5.6 and decided they don't want it falling below that point.

This is how I will be placing my bets. Remember this is speculation, so nothing I write is written in stone, just my intuition.

I watched yesterday how tens of thousands of bitcoins were sold, with the obvious goal of lowering the price below $5.00.

Even with these huge amounts being sold into the walls, somebody with huge pockets does not want the price to fall below $5.00.

I have seen it attacked multiple times recently. Every sell attack is always stopped, and then counterattacked with almost as strong bid walls, and driving the price right back to high $5's.

I speculate that somebody has bought probably 100,000 coins yesterday trying to keep the price above $5.00.

It seems that this person has almost unlimited funds and he has decided he does not want the price to fall below $5.00. I think this is because he probably owns hundreds of thousands of bitcoins, and is deeply invested at this point.

After seeing the last attempt fail, and then a quick rebound in price, with strong bidwalls again, I knew we hit a floor at about $5.6.

I knew today we would probably see rally, and when I checked the price later today, we did have a rally. 

At this poing, it is a very safe bet in my opinion to buy right now as you have the backing of somebody deeply invested and will not let the price fall.

I just loaded my money into mt. gox, and will be betting on a rebound to come shortly. I of course will have my stop losses set around 5.00, as if we fall below $5.00, then all hell will break loose and this manipulator can't hold or decided not to keep the price floor in check.

I watched last night as the $5.7 25,000 bidwall got sold into. After that was gone someone reinforced $5.6 and $5.65 with about 15,000 BTC each. Seems like that got sold into also.

Someone also has an ask wall around $6.05 at 20K BTC.  Which I think has been moving slowly down.

Looks like there are big battles going on in the $5.00.

Now bitcoins looks to be controlled by two sides of manipulation, one side who wants the price to go up and one side who wants the price to go down. I used to think there was one side who wanted the price to go up, and just early adapters dumping their bitcoins.

These sides of the up and down are not your average bitcoin investor, they commonly buy and sell 20K walls no problem.

I am surprised so many of you have faith in bitcoin which is obviously just another form of online gambling. A price that is unstable and set by which side of the bitcoin gamblers want to push it.


My take on the current bitcoin market is:
Right now seems like the gamblers who want the price to go down are slowly winning. There seems to be very low demand lately for anybody buying bitcoins at the current price. The volume was ultra low yesterday until the bidwalls were sold into. Ultra low at like 20K bitcoins, and has been becoming low like this lately. The manipulators who are trying to push price higher will pretty much have to buy most of the coins going up. They have very few bitcoin investors helping them push it higher. They will also have to maintain the currently artificially high price they set by buying all the miner coins who routinely sell their coins after mining. Also deal with the manipulators who want price to go down ask walls now.
 If the price does get into the $4's, this will really start lots of panic sells for many of the people who bought on the way up to $7.2, and have been holding off. I think this is why they have been defending the price falling into the $4's so hard and long.

It is obvious that bitcoin is getting killed lately, and can potentially take a huge dive back down the the $2.00 range.
Everything is pointing towards a drop, the days before the drop were also very obvious with the low volume.

One thing that I noticed from watching bitcoins fall from $30's, is that bitcoin has never failed to make new lows, no matter how much I even think otherwise.

So what is going on here now? The manipulator really pushed the price up high. However, it looks like he has not been able to push higher than $7.2, now it looks like he is not able to even maintain the prices. He put up his bidwalls, but they have failed. Today I saw the $5.4 bidwall go from 9000 coins, to 38,000 coins, then back down to 10,000 coins, all within 20 minutes. Wonder what he is up to.

Is this a controlled drop, to suck up bitcoins cheap again. Then a push to higher prices, to dump them?

has he just failed to keep the price high because it is just to expensive to subsidize the price of bitcoins?

Has his bidwalls been taking too many dumps, where he decides that it is not worth it to buy all the bitcoins people are dumping? I have noticed in the past that when many of his bidwalls get sold into within a short period of time, he usually pulls out of the market for a while. This is what I think is happening now.

So whats up? Just recently you guys were all talking about double digits, bitcoins going to the moon, it was like 95% optimistic people, now everyone is changing their mind.

I see too much blind optimism. Everyone thinks bitcoins will rise to the moon again.

Remember some points.

1) Bitcoins are as useless now as they ever were

2) Bitcoins are not a commodity, they are not consumed. Everyone who bought on the way up, needs to eventually sell them.

3) The market is very tiny, and is growing slowly at best.

4) 5,000-7000 new bitcoins come into existence every single day.

5) Most people sit with bitcoins on a rally, but eventually it will stall and they will start selling. This will push the price back down.

6) Obvious signs of price manipulation for the pushes. Is it someone using the push, rinse and repeat strategy playing on many of blind optimist suckers?

7) Now that the price has been potentially manipulated higher, will the manipulators keep shelling out their cash to try and hold the price high?

Anybody who wants bit coins already owns a substantial number of these useless coins. Will they keep buying more to help maintain a high price? Who are the new suckers coming into the market now and buying them?

9) Market depth supporting the now $5.00 price is looking very weak on mt. gox.

10) Last but not least, who the hell is stupid enough to pay $5.00 now for a bitcoin?

I am tired of all the bull posts lately, with the rise to $3.00, everybody on here thought bitcoin was going to the moon.
Nobody here understands basic fundamentals. The market for buyers of bitcoins are so tiny. Most people interested in bitcoins are miners, and miners don't friggn buy, they mine. The few buyers who will now actually pay over $2 bucks now, is so small to not even cover probably 1/10th of the 7000 new bitcoins coming into the market everyday.

Then most of you bulls see the price go to $3.00, but ignore the fact that the only reason it went to $3.00 is that there is a friggn manipulator who is pushing the price up. Then you do not think it is manipulation when there is a huge bidwall that he moves around to control the price at 50,000 bitcoins. The stupidity of the bulls is just overwhelming to think that the price will be hold and be stable when it is being moved by manipulation that is clear as day. This same manipulator has failed many times holding the price above the proper market value for bitcoin.

You guys still need your lesson learned. I will enjoy the bitcoin drop all the way into the cents. Told you guys to sell into this rally and use the manipulator to make some money if he is going to try to hold the price higher then the correct value.

Your little manipuator friend massive bidwall is now 35,000 bitcoins, no more 45,000. Looks like he is losing out trying to raise the price higher. I know most of you guys don't buy bitcoins above $3.00, and don't try and help your manipualtor buddy out. Again, you guys are morons about the bitcoin price, but not morons with your actual fiat dollars.

After Mt. Gox changed its webpage, I can't see the bid walls anymore. I like to see the latest on what the manipualtor is doing.

Hello fellow bitcoin bears,

I was wondering if you guys think we hit bottom or are we still looking to hit bottom?

To me it looks like the market can be easily manipulated to have a price floor. Which looks like it is the case right now. I am starting to think some big players will spend the money to put the floor in then have bitcoin price fall below $1.00, which I think it would if it was not for these players.

When bitcoin was well over $10 or $15 dollars, I claimed that I would buy in around $2.00. That seemed far fetched at the time to most, but that seemed to be what I thought bitcoin would hit. NOw that it reached $2.00, and it looks like bit market players are putting in a price floor, maybe this is the bottom?

I already lost big with my oil gamble, waiting for it to hit around $20 dollars a few years back, it hit around $30, and never looked back. I was being too bearish with my $20 mark, but looking at historical pricing it seemed feasible. Still was very close to my mark as oil was what $150 just some months before that.

Seems like there is little risk for it dropping lower, and we will have plenty of time to pull out if it does.

Let me know what you fellow bears think. Or is this just another little rise before another drop. If history is any predictor, then this would surely be the case.

Only bears comments here, I know plenty of you bulls think it was a great buy at $5, $10, $15, $20, $25, $30. So it is a great buy for you at the current level also.