Bitsafe Hardware Wallet Development:

New Thread with new discussion and direction:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152517.0

[So, how many of you serious miners feel the duty to maintain the entire block chain to increase decentralization and robustness of the system?]

I can see how blockchain pruning and the "ultimate compression" would be very useful for many applications.
However, could it start a trend where no one, not even the miners, care about storing and maintaining the entire block chain when it scales to the same level as other payment processors?
It makes sense; why store and maintain it when "the next guy will take care of it if ever needed". Purchasing hard drives and spending money on the electricity to keep them running to maintain the entire block chain is money your mining competitor didn't spend.

It looks as if this trend will be set in motion and will make the entire block chain database heavily centralized or lost completely in the distant future. Would this destroy Bitcoin? No, it would not; however, I think it would be a huge loss. Why? Because the never-ending-supply of skeptics learning about Bitcoin can no longer trust solely in math and cryptography to audit the system. As soon as you start deleting information that is "no-longer useful" you have to start trusting the mining community that nothing dubious has been done though the probability of a mining conspiracy is extremely low; however, it is still a very valuable selling point for Bticoin that anyone can audit the system and have 100% assurance that all rules were followed to the letter. This can only be done with the full block chain.

So, how many of you serious miners feel the duty to maintain the entire block chain to increase decentralization and robustness of the system?
I, for one, have the goal of doing this, but will expect the costs to be recovered via transaction fees as the system scales. Am I alone on this? What percentage of the community feels this way?
Please chime in on your position/viewpoint

If I am alone, I need to rethink some of my projects I had for bitcoin. I'm hoping there's at least 50% plus.

http://goldengate.bbb.org/article/the-psychology-of-the-scam-34976

Great article.

Please Post portions that contradict with Zhou's personality/psychology.
Please Post portions that resonate with Zhou's personality/psychology.

Please try to exclude your bias and "give him the benefit of the doubt".

I post this because we can all benefit from understanding con psychology moving forward.

edit: fixed my poor grammar and changed to a more appropriate title.

[Update: 8/09/2012]

Update: 8/09/2012

Looking into the more technical aspect of how to store data on the block chain; so far, I've found these two methods:

1) Uses multiple outputs to send a message (store data). Each output address is data; therefore, the coins are destroyed.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_chain_message_service

2) Transaction with a message inside the script
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script#Transaction_with_a_message

Mike Hearn makes some good points about the first method that I believe also applies to second.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=47283.msg607667#msg607667

Also, if I understand correctly, there are other ways to embed messages(data) into the transaction that are less likely to be (pruned) and deleted, but I'm still leaning towards #1.
Here's my reasoning:

* It requires more bitcoin to add data into the block chain when using the addresses in the outputs. Because of all the costs, it should satisfy any naysayer because the creator of the transaction "paid for it". Even if someone doesn't agree with the blockchain being utilized this way; well, who cares, those users burning their coins are making the rest of us more wealthy.

*When the question is asked "What uses does bitcoin have beyond just financial transactions?", you will now have an additional reason to give: pay miners to add data in the most distributed, secure, and accessible database in the world.

*Also, it would still be friendly to those that only want to manage a pruned/trimmed blockchain. As Michael Hearn pointed out, transaction outputs that will clearly never be spent can be deleted with no worry of anyone spending them.

I've also been thinking about adding in the technical document that all the coins used on undependable outputs for "Bitcoin's Distributed PKI" will be available for miner rewards once all the block rewards are finished. A new type of generation transaction could be created that would allow miners to collect those coins based on certain rules. This would give incentive to maintain all the unspendable outputs used in the PKI in the block chain database.

Update: 7/24/2012
 
Still Playing around with the title. Now, the name is just right IMO in describing where I hope this thread and project will go. I had debated about using the word "decentralized" since the name Bitcoin already implies this; however, the implementation of this PKI compared to the majority out there is decentralized in so many ways that I decided it had to be there.

Here's some good material of the technology already out there.
http://highsecu.free.fr/db/outils_de_securite/cryptographie/pki/publickey.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_key_infrastructure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature

Update: 7/19/2012

Updated the Title
Old Title: Decentralized Identity Management using the Block Chain

Thanks to all for the responses and resources. When I originally had this idea, I had no experience or knowledge of what already existed on the net.
Wasn't even sure what to call it. The Web of Trust was by far the closest to what I had envisioned.
(see http://privwiki.dreamhosters.com/wiki/Distributed_Web_of_Trust_Proposal_2)

My idea isn't new at all and there's are many similar applications and projects online.

I came across an article today that was a gold mine of information and the first part lay's the foundation to web of trust, decentralized ID system, and others.

Beyond “web of trust”: Enabling P2P E-commerce
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CFwQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fciteseerx.ist.psu.edu%2Fviewdoc%2Fdownload%3Fdoi%3D10.1.1.15.82%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf&ei=lU4IUMPQGsXI2wWqyL3SBA&usg=AFQjCNEPBsAnoUQrgcd1Uj76DUbbVLLriw

I'm considering starting a github repository where the technical aspects of this PKI using the blockchain can start to be formed.

If this is conflicting with anyone's efforts, please let me know. Also, PM me if you would like to be part of the project.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I know the idea has been tossed around alot, but has anyone taken it seriously.
Is there any project out there.
I'm been toying with the idea to start something along this line, but do not want to re-invent the wheel if there's already progress.

Just like money, Identification is too important to leave to a central entity.
What are the possibilities with Decentralized ID?
       Digital notary.
       Open ID login pulled from the block chain
       The ground works for a new voting system.

What are your thoughts? Anyone working on a protocol write-up?

Update:
   Here's a link with some great information. it describes the problem and the limitations of the solution currently at hand.
Could bitcoin overcome these limitations?
http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/06/ieee-ic-decentralized-identity-weitzner.html

Update 2:
   Very relevant link provided by Stephen Gornick below:
http://privwiki.dreamhosters.com/wiki/Distributed_Web_of_Trust_Proposal_2

Update 3:
Another great find:
http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/kaliya-hamlin/identity-matters/why-identity-matters-0
So, the goal, as I see it, is to create a competing ID system that serves more than the agenda of government and large corporations.
Also, it would limit the mischief that could be done having power and monopoly over ID systems.

Update 4:
     Mt.Gox Trusted Vendor Program
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92334.0
Now, if they used the block chain and allowed others to be a trusted vendor or person.

Update 5:
      A big thanks to bitcoin.me for referencing me to http://bitcoin-otc.com/
It's a great working example of what could be done. The main difference between what they started and this proposal is they manage the information instead of it being decentralized and located on the block chain. Check out the full graph: http://corrupt.jails.se/~magnetron/
And you can also look at the graph between two users: http://serajewelks.bitcoin-otc.com/trustgraph.php
Here's an example: http://serajewelks.bitcoin-otc.com/trustgraph.php?source=Cusipzzz&dest=noitev

Edit: complete overhaul of first post

Thanks to everyone who had participated in the Poll.
I had reset the poll looking for input from the community for the options, however, it is now very clear that
"First come First Serve" is the winner. Still not sure how many would be against the hybrid version proposed by Steve:

The libertarian in me likes a market based solution.  First, determine a rate per day that BFL would like to sell the products (this would be based on a lot of factors including manufacturing capacity, need to raise capital to fund the manufacturing, etc).  On day 1, list the items for a very high premium over the announced prices.  If nothing sells on day 1, or less than the targeted amount sells, then on day 2 they lower the price.  If more sold, then you raise the price (although the objective would be to steadily lower the price each day until you hit the announced prices).  Trade-ins would be treated no different than cash buyers.  Shipping then happens in order of purchase.  BFL would also ship in a steady flow rather than huge batches at once (and agree not to use hardware in there possession for mining while it awaits shipment).  The reason for this is that the early buyers are seeking to get the hardware earlier and start mining before everyone else gets the hardware…and they are paying a premium for it.  So, if BFL gets a shipment of 30 mini rigs and expect to get another shipment of 30 the next months, rather than ship all 30 at once, they would ship 1 per day (in purchase order).

A somewhat non market based twist on this is that they might want to restrict the number of units one person can order…this would prevent someone with deep pockets from buying a very substantial portion of the hardware, costs be damned.  Of course, there are ways such a rule could be circumvented and I wonder whether such a rule would actually work counter to the goal of distributing the hardware.  Someone successfully circumventing the process might gain an unfair advantage over someone else with a lot of capital, but abiding by the rules.  So, I tend to think it's actually better not to have such limits.

I think this would clear up a lot of issues not just for the community, but for BFL as well.

Either way, it's their business not mine; there choice not ours, but I am grateful they took this issue into serious consideration.
Transitioning to ASICs is going to be an interesting ride. Since BFL is making it happen, their involvement in the community is a very positive sign in my opinion.


Edit: Oh crap, here I am updating my thread and orders have already commenced a while ago. Sucks I had to be out today.
       Good luck to all in their order positions.

So, I got one BFL single and its been two days now that its just sitting on my desk doing nothing.
Pretty sad
So, who can write a guide for a layman like myself to get this running on my win XP 32 bit machine?
Bounty 1BTC - Will increase bounty daily until its solved.

I think I've done everything correctly, but it still complains about not having opencl installed.
I thought if I use a tag to disable it that it would go away. My machine has no need for opencl - there's not gaming cards.

I know there's a lot of information about this already, but I'm having difficulty sifting through it all to debug my mining issues.

Thanks in advance for the help.

BitForce Single 3rd Generation on Bitmit.

7 day auction.
Starts at 0.01 BTC
There's no Reserve and the shipping is free.

https://bitmit.net/en/trade/i/1985-butterfly-labs-bitforce-single-3rd-generation

[Abstract]

  BIP: ??
  Title: Gradual Changing Block Rewards
  Author: Slim Pickens
  Status: Draft
  Type: Standards Track
  Created: ??-??-2012
  Post-History: ??-??-2012

Abstract
This BIP proposes for block rewards to decrease more frequently.

Motivation
Every four years the block reward for bitcoin is cut in half. There is much uncertainty surrounding bitcoin prices and total network hashing power before and after these reward reductions. This author feels very confident that bitcoin will traverse its first block decrease with success; however, months before and after will be full of large price swings with a potentially modest decrease in global hash rate. Stability has yet to be one of Bitcoin’s virtues; yet, many hope (including the author) that this will change over time. The goal of this BIP is to avoid the frenzy in price fluctuations and global hash rate during these rare events by making them much more frequent with smaller decreases.

Specification
Block rewards will begin decreasing every two weeks starting at the end of the second year of the 25 BTC block reward (What’s the specific block number?). (Note: How frequent the changes are and when it goes into effect are open for debate). Unfortunately, this author is not into coding Bitcoin so the details of this BIPs implementation will rely on feedback from experienced Bitcoin programmers.

Variables:
•   Frequency of bitcoin decreases (Initial proposal is for every two weeks)
•   Date, more specifically the Block #, at which these smaller more frequent decreases take effect. (Initial proposal is for this BIP to take effect at the end of the second year of 25 BTC rewards)
•   The Percent of the decrease. Need to find a percentage that will in effect release the same amount of coins over the long term as the original block reward system.

Rationale
Two weeks were chosen for the frequency of decreases because it coincides with the difficulty adjustment. Seems like a good idea to do them together. However, this is not critical for the success of this BIP. Depending on the general consensus from the Bitcoin community and the simplicity of coding implementation, this may change.

The date for the change is proposed at the end of the second year of the 25 BTC block rewards. This gives the community 6 months to observe the market behavior of the initial block decrease and have a software implementation 18 months prior to the change going into effect. Again, depending on the general consensus from the Bitcoin community and the simplicity of coding implementation, this may change.

Based on Moore’s law and the history of computing innovation, it is commonly quoted as 18 months for computing power to double. 18 months should be enough time for miners to adjust their capital strategy before this BIP goes into effect. It will also give the community plenty of time to adopt the new code.

The implementation of this BIP would be a huge win for the bitcoin community. There are many articles written why Bitcoin is “fatally flawed”. They gloss over the fact that the brilliance and innovation of this new currency is in its decentralization and the fact that it is democratically governed. This system doesn’t have the flaws of other democratically governed bodies because there are no laws in effect that force anyone to use it. It is simply by free choice; therefore, no one would advocate changes to favor a few because it would self-destruct the currency. The implementation of this BIP would be a shining example that when problems arise the community will deal with it in way that will cause the currency to continue to excel. In other words, all supposed fatal issues are really non-issues. When the timing is right, mass consensus will be reached and they will be fixed.

Edit: 03/22/2012 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Comment added below ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Appreciate everyone's comments even if they totally disagree. I would like to continue to push to get this published in the WIKI BIP. Doesn't mean it will be adopted. I just want to make it an official record of what is possible and not possible with Bitcoin.
Before doing so, I would like to kindly request that you humor me and this BIP "as if" it was going to be adopted and help me nail down all 3 variables and hold off from commenting on its feasibility.

Please comment on the following:
1)Frequency
2)Block # of implementation
3)Percent decrease.

Also, what if we rounded the block reward after each decrease to four significant digits? Any thoughts.

Other request for help:
       Graphs of Bitcoin curve over time compared to the original.
       Graphs of the injection rate over time compared to the original.
       Psuedo code for the implementation.

Thanks again.

Edit: 04/02/2012 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Comment added below ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alright. The key factors of this BIP have been improved and finalized.

The frequency of change is Every Block.
The Change will occur on block 315000 (Block count starting at 0)
The approximate percent decrease: 0.00031746 %

Over 100 years, the original will have approximately injected a few bitcents more than the proposed improvement.
However, these small details will be worked out during the implementation of the code. What's important is the amount injected
is approximately the same or a few satoshis less than the original.


Total Sum
     

Injection Rate

Again, all comments are appreciated and so far I've observed a lot emotional response.
That's ok. It's all part of reveling what it will take to get a well crafted IMPROVEMENT
adopted by the majority.

BIP - Bitcoin Improvement Proposal by AllTen.

If I understand correctly the block size can be as large as 1MB with the current version of the Bitcoin client.
a simple modification would probably allow for larger block sizes.
Also, there are no limitations on what can be put in a block. you can put whatever you want if you are a miner.

Bitcoin's greatest feature IMO, other than for currency, is storage of data in the most secure and highly distributed database this world has ever seen. The countless market applications for this are hard to fathom.
However, if the block chain becomes bloated with all this non-currency transaction data it could have a negative impact on bitcoin and I'm sure it would make miners unhappy in the long run as disk space fills up.

So here's my (incomplete) proposal: All non transaction data in the block chain would require two fees. One fee to the miner for KB usage (same as before) and another fee that would go into a type of savings owned by no one that would be used to compliment miner rewards after all 21 million bitcoins have been mined. Obviously there's a lot of detail missing, but that is the gist of my proposal that I look to the bitcoin community for help in critiquing it.

With your input, I will be updating this post as needed.

Thanks

--------------- Update: 10/08/2011 -----------
Well, looks like my proposal needs a complete overhaul.
Thank you for your comments. I thought I had a better understanding of Bitcoin Technology, but maybe not.
Anyways, Here are some questions I've been pondering before I scrap this idea or re-write it entirely.

1) How exactly is arbitrary data stored in the block chain?
   Is there more than one way?
   My current understanding is that it has to be part of a transaction signature and this is the only way. True?
   If so, what is the maximum size?

2) I'm still having difficulty understanding the economics of transaction fees.
   why does a miner care how big a transaction is in kb? seams trivial. Does it require more processing power to authenticate and verify?
   what metrics can a miner use to calculate a reasonable fee to accept or reject transactions?

your answers and/or links to previous topics is much appreciated.

Having difficulties understanding merged mining between NMC and BTC.
What does it mean? There has been little information posted about how it works.

Does this mean the Namecoin currency and DNS information is now part of the bitcoin blockchain?
Or does it mean solving a bitcoin block simultaneously solves a namecoin block?
If so, how does that work?

Appreciate the time for your answers.

I bought a new card and had second thoughts. It is brand new and purchased from new egg.
I live in Phoenix Arizona and its already too hot with my current miner.

New egg has a 15% restocking fee.

Would anyone like a 6990 for 15% off?
If not sold by Monday, I will be returning it to New Egg.

it would be a bitcoin purchase of course.

Thanks

[My goal is to successfully start a trend where BTC prices are almost always quoted with the average $/BTC mining costs.]

I want to provide a service that gives the bitcoin community an idea of the mining $/BTC average.
It would be a report given every month that would delve in the world of mining and at the end give a
good estimate of the average money the miner spends to generate bitcoins.

One of the reasons I believe the price got so unreasonably high was so many investors neglected the importance of $/BTC mining costs.
My goal is to successfully start a trend where BTC prices are almost always quoted with the average $/BTC mining costs.
Compared to Silver and Gold, Bitcoin has a very unique relationship with mining operations.

Before I do my first write up, I would like to bounce some of my ideas off the community and ask for help.
I will be updating this thread.

For starters, Here is what I would like to ask help with:
1)Links to all the other similar posts - I know there's gotta be a half dozen of them; no need in re-inventing the wheel. [1 BTC bounty to the first post containing them all]
2)The best rig for the buck without sacrificing too much quality. Damaged cards from a cheap Power supply or downtime because a cheep mother board should be taken into consideration.
     [Another 1 BTC bounty for the best rig submitted with price totals and links to the online computer stores]

Thanks again.

[Full Blown MtGox Audit - Get Ready To participate. Starting Sept 25thhttps://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=43484.0]

This thread is in response to a previous one that I began

Full Blown MtGox Audit - Get Ready To participate. Starting Sept 25th
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=43484.0


The sentiment in the previous thread was pretty much the proposal was a crazy and "preposterous".
Ok Ok Ok. Learning from mistakes and continuing forward.

So, the best way for an audit to occur is by encouraging any competitor to be audited.
If the market responds positively to that exchange with an audit, more than likely, all competitors will follow its lead.

However, the big question that popped into my mind is "what exactly would they be auditing?!?"
The obvious one is if all funds are accounted for, but isn't there much more that could be audited?

There are no exchanges (that I am aware of) that have their policies and standards of operation posted.
In order for a full company audit to occur, it seams apparent that there needs to be a set of guidelines to look at.

So, finally, the purpose of this post is to brainstorm the following
        1) what practices could an exchange execute that would be undesirable for the market? (i.e manipulate the price)

        2) From the ideas above, what policies and standards would you like to see an exchange adopt?

My goal is to form a well written document that any exchange could adopt or even adapt for their own.
From there, we would have a good idea of what kind of information an audit should contain.

Thanks for your criticism and input.

I would like to hope that MtGox has been 100% trustworthy with the BitCoin market.
However, we bitcoiners should never assume, but hold every exchange accountable
from time to time.

I'm calling (proposing) all traders to take a break from mtGox starting Sept 25th
for a period of two weeks. In that time, withdraw all bitcoin and other money
depositing it into the next exchange of your choice. Or you could trade on various
exchanges which I do (not all eggs in one basket).

I will be withdrawing all my funds from mtgox during this period. If all funds are
available to all those who withdrew and there's no evidence of manipulation in
the mean-time then I will be happy to have the majority of my trading to
continue to occur on their platform.

Please join with me! For the long term health of bitcoin.
Please help announce this audit on all other forums and bitcoin related sites.
I have nothing against MtGox and I hope they succeed.

Need some general direction to start an exchange.

I haven't coded web pages or PHP for a very long time.

I was thinking a long the lines of a LAMP server.
Is that a good idea? I assume its security is as good as it is set up.
Problem is, I've never done it before.

Any input appreciated to get me started in the right direction.

After pondering BitCoin for some time, I've came to the conclusion that the price will never be stable. But I do not think it matters for the success of BitCoin. I also believe (could be wrong) that it would be impossible to come up with a CryptoCurrency that would be stable in price without sacrificing its decentralized virtue. And if one was supposedly made, it would always be open to manipulation out side the free market to the advantage of a few (in my opionion).

To understand my conclusion on BitCoin price, let's look at a currency backed by the commodity gold.
If deflation becomes a problem, the demand and price of gold goes up relative to the entire market. This lowers the threshold for gold miners to make a profit and so production is expanded accordingly. The reverse case is also true. If inflation become a problem, the threshold for gold mining profitably is increased and gold mining production is cut-back. In other words, the rate of new money injected into the economy is dictated by the free market and always adjusts accordingly making the gold currency VERY STABLE.

BitCoin on the other hand has the RATE of money injected into the market fixed in its algorithm. Weather the market needs more money or not does not matter. 50 BTC (or 25, 12.5, 6.25, etc.) is always injected into the market every 10 minutes. If the amount of non BTC money (usually Fiat currencies) comes into the system to purchase BTC at the same rate BTC is generated, then you get stable price; however, that has hardly been the characteristic of the BitCoin free market.

As stated at the beginning, this should not matter for BitCoin and the future of its success. The solution to this issue is found in the services that will most likely will spring up (if they haven't already) for merchants. Because BitCoin is SO VERY EASY to exchange, a merchant can except payment for a product or service in bitcoin and simultaneously be guaranteed the money-of-choice by an exchange service. In other words, the so called price instability weakness of BitCoin will be completely masked out by one of its many strengths.

Comments and input appreciated.

In the spirit of BitCoin grass roots promotion My home is officially up for Rent and I will only accept BTC.
First announced here on bitcointalk.org.

My home is located in Mesa AZ.
Cross streets are Warner and Signal Butte

Price will be ~90BTC (That value could obviously change)
Rent price is below market value for any bitcoin takers.

More details to come.
I'm still in the process of moving and preparing my home for new renters.
We are a large family and needed a bigger home.
Very busy right now so it may take time before i respond again with more details.

anticipated FAQ:
      Q: Are you trolling?
      A: No, I am not.
     
      Q: Your joking right?
      A: No, I am not. I really want to see Bitcoin succeed and this is just my way of doing it.
 
      Q: Is this your pathetic attempt to get out of "newbie jail"
      A: No, it is not, but it would be nice to get out and have this thread posted else where.