It's clear one cannot buy bitcoin with paypal, but there are many service providers who offer to transfer from paypal to liberty reserve or okpay, which can in turn be transferred to MtGox

List of exchangers for Liberty reserve: http://www.libertyreserve.com/en/exchangers
List of exchangers for okpay: https://www.okpay.com/partners/exchangers/index.html

All these service introduce a service fee. But should be less than transferring money than if paypal Wire transfer funds to my China bank account (charges 35USD per transaction).

Has anyone tried one of these exchanger?

I studied more than 8 of these exchangers, each spend 8 minutes, either I couldn't find information on "from paypal to something", or they stated clearly that they can only transfer to, not "from", paypal -- with only one exception, http://www.payrmb.net/Faq.aspx states it would do the transaction from paypay to liberty reserve by waiting 7 days, after seeing no charge-back attempt -- and I don't trust them because their website is half broken on Firefox and their help section is IE oriented. Is this a dead-end too?

Bitcoin intended to address an inherent problem of fiat money: fiat money can be created out of thin air, resulting inflation.

Is bitcoin the only solution to this? No, there are lots of alternative solutions, so why the bitcoin heat?

- If you don't like fiat money to store value, you can use securities backed by gold. At least gold certificate is easy to buy here in China, i.e. you have certain amount of gold; the bank holds it for you. Although you cannot buy things with gold certificates, you can easily convert gold certificates to cash and back. There is no storage fee (you can take the gold physically home if you own more than 1 kilo) and the exchange fee isn't too much (my impression is 2.8%, I could be wrong but not too wrong). Besides, banks here competes fiercely for customer to purchase gold, some bank even do it for free for new customers (there is such an ad right before my window). I feel in other places in the world gold certificates are not hard to buy neither.

- If you don't like long time contracts signed with fiat money, you can write it in a way requesting transactions be done in fiat money of the market value of certain amount of gold agreed beforehand. A few people already do that kind of contract, and I presume it is legal.

- If you like, you can manually link your salary account with your gold reserve in the same bank. When you receive salary, convert them to gold in 1 minute with a few mouse clicks.

- I read newspaper report saying in the U.S. autonomy government are allowed create their own currency. It's apparently illegal here in China, but U.S. people can do that. Why not some cities controlled by wise leaders issue their currency pegged to gold, and compete with USD, even in a smaller scale? That's the solution suggested by Hayek in 1976 in his "Denationalisation of Money", what stops this from happening? According to Hayek, if competition is allowed, the more stable currency would easily win.

Somehow I feel all these alternative are not happening because people don't realize the problem with fiat money -- if this is the case, it won't easily change because of bitcoin -- people's minds are slow to change. Had people realized the problem and distrust fiat money, there should haven been rushes to buy gold like it is happening in Asia.

I am not sure what it means, "invalid nonce"? The word "nonce" suggests this is a message that I can ignore, but perhaps it is a specific term in bitcoin?

Code:

cgminer version 2.11.4 - Started: [2013-04-14 09:20:36]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 (5s):218.1M (avg):222.1Mh/s | A:0  R:0  HW:180  U:0.0/m  WU:2.8/m
 ST: 4  SS: 0  NB: 6  LW: 0  GF: 0  RF: 0
 Connected to localhost diff 7.67M without LP as user un
 Block: 00c6aa8eb9fde2e0...  Diff:7.67M  Started: [10:18:18]  Best share: 0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 [P]ool management [G]PU management [S]ettings [D]isplay options [Q]uit
 GPU 0:                | 215.9M/222.4Mh/s | A:0 R:0 HW:180 U:0.00/m I: 4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 [2013-04-14 10:09:51] GPU0: invalid nonce - HW error
 [2013-04-14 10:10:12] GPU0: invalid nonce - HW error
 [2013-04-14 10:10:24] GPU0: invalid nonce - HW error
 [2013-04-14 10:10:32] GPU0: invalid nonce - HW error
 [2013-04-14 10:10:40] GPU0: invalid nonce - HW error
 [2013-04-14 10:10:46] GPU0: invalid nonce - HW error
 [2013-04-14 10:10:49] New block detected on network
 [2013-04-14 10:11:34] GPU0: invalid nonce - HW error
 [2013-04-14 10:11:42] GPU0: invalid nonce - HW error
...

Using Ubuntu Linux 12.10.

Hello. I've got two display cards:

Code:

$ aticonfig --list-adapters
* 0. 01:00.0 ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series  
  1. 04:00.0 ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series  

* - Default adapter

But CGMiner only see one device:

Code:

$ ./cgminer --ndevs
 [2013-04-14 10:35:21] CL Platform 0 vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.                    
 [2013-04-14 10:35:21] CL Platform 0 name: AMD Accelerated Parallel Processing                    
 [2013-04-14 10:35:21] CL Platform 0 version: OpenCL 1.2 AMD-APP (1113.2)                    
 [2013-04-14 10:35:21] Platform 0 devices: 1                    
 [2013-04-14 10:35:21] 	0	Cypress                    
 [2013-04-14 10:35:21] 1 GPU devices max detected

Poclbm on the other hand, shows some enigmatic message:

Code:

$ python2.7 poclbm.py 

WARNING: no adl3 module found (github.com/mjmvisser/adl3), temperature control is disabled


OpenCL devices:

[0]	Cypress
[1]	AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 945 Processor

No devices specified, using all GPU devices

It confuses me much. If my Radeon HD 5800 is recognized as "Cypress", then both should be Cypress. If my Radeon HD 5800 is recognized as "AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 945 Processor", both should be that, too. They are two identical card bought the same time from the same vendor, from the same shipment.

Having one as "Cypress" and the other as "AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 945 Processor" makes me believe poclbm also only recognized one of the video cards. I would be able to verify this if I can mine with poclbm, but I cannot, which is another topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175691.msg1828977

Thanks!

Hello

When I run poclbm, I get

localhost:8332 07/04/2013 19:45:02, Failed to subscribe                        
localhost:8332 07/04/2013 19:45:04, IO errors - 1, tolerance 2

Full commandline and output is at the end of this message.

What I have checked

- bitcoin-qt is running in server-mode (version 4.8.3)
- device is supported. poclbm can identify my Radeon HD5800 as "AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 945 Processor"
- netstat( shows bitcoin-qt is listening to localhost:8332 (it's apparent, because if it doesn't, I should get 'Connection refused' insteead of 'Failed to subscribe')
- all python components are installed, including opencl, serial, numpy ...
- poclbm is the latest, in fact, git cloned from https://github.com/Kiv/poclbm just a few hours ago.
- fglrx and AMDAPP-sdk installed. poclbm didn't complain about them.
- also tried using bitcoind instead of bitcoin-qt (version 0.8.1)
- password and username are of course checked for correctness, verified by accessing http://localhost:8332/ with a web browser, which says

Code:

{"result":null,"error":{"code":-32700,"message":"Parse error"},"id":null}

So is there anything I missed to check? What could be the problem?

Code:

$ python2.7 poclbm.py -d 1 un:pw@localhost:8332

WARNING: no adl3 module found (github.com/mjmvisser/adl3), temperature control is disabled

 13/04/2013 22:30:55, started OpenCL miner on platform 0, device 1 (AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 945 Processor)
 13/04/2013 22:30:55, Setting server (un @ localhost:8332)                      
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:31:05, Failed to subscribe                         
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:31:07, IO errors - 1, tolerance 2                  
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:31:17, Failed to subscribe                         
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:31:19, IO errors - 2, tolerance 2                  
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:31:29, Failed to subscribe                         
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:31:31, IO errors - 3, tolerance 2                  
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:31:31, No more backup servers left. Using primary and starting over.
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:31:31, Setting server (un @ localhost:8332)        
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:31:41, Failed to subscribe                         
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:31:43, IO errors - 1, tolerance 2                  
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:31:53, Failed to subscribe                         
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:31:55, IO errors - 2, tolerance 2                  
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:32:05, Failed to subscribe                         
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:32:07, IO errors - 3, tolerance 2                  
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:32:07, No more backup servers left. Using primary and starting over.
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:32:07, Setting server (un @ localhost:8332)        
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:32:17, Failed to subscribe                         
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:32:19, IO errors - 1, tolerance 2                  
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:32:29, Failed to subscribe                         
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:32:31, IO errors - 2, tolerance 2                  
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:32:41, Failed to subscribe                         
localhost:8332 13/04/2013 22:32:43, IO errors - 3, tolerance 2