we see it every day. republicans pretend to be anti-gov. yet they keep quoting government laws.

let me explain
cats and dogs do not have laws to say they have the right to meow or woof. nor are there laws that restrict them from meowing and woofing.

pets know they can meow and woof naturally without being told. they also know when their meows and woofs can cause trouble they stop meowing and woofing. without any law telling them

so why is it republicans cannot have the self conscious thought to know when to talk and when to shut up.

cats can roam free. no law commands them. but cats know not to stray in other cats territory.
so again why do republicans think they have to rely on government laws to tell them that they should stay away from dangers of coming into other peoples personal space

it seems republicans have less common sense than pets.

if republicans actually just respected personal space and just stopped risking the health of those around them out of pure self conscious common sense, then they will find that the restrictions would not need enforcement

its the ignorance, avoidance, and just pure resistance to actually use common sense. that makes governments have to intervene and implement rules


the idots that do anti restriction protests dont realise by actually gathering enmasse and in close proximity. its their.. yes them idiots own actions that will make restriction rules tighten not relax

protesting restrictions will not result in relaxing restrictions
when the idiots took trumps tweet of 'liberate [state]' he know it would cause chaos and cause people to be harmed and arrested. heck he even was the one that 2 weeks later called in national guard to stop the liberation, insulting all the people that did get involved in the chaos

so heres a tip to the republicans
stop listening to other stupid people just because they are leaders of your stupidity group. and actually just ask yourself these two simple things

will my actions affect myself or others negatively
am i doing this because some group leader i never met said to do it.

if someone told you to speed in your car. knowing the risks of getting in trouble with the cops. or injuring someone.. would you still do it
do you have access to the same health/legal support as the idiot that told you to do it
does that idiot do as they say. or just delegate others to get in trouble on their behalf

so just remember instead of thinking about the written and codified and government created rights.
think about your own self conscious thoughts and responsibilities
.. the common sense of self awareness and respect for yourself and others

learn not to do stupid things.
learn when to shut up and when to talk
learn when you should and should not invade personal space
learn not to impact other peoples lives negatively

it says so far passed the safety tests.
it says so far 90% effective

lets explain

out of 44k people on trial 22k are ones with vaccine and 22k are placebo
at this mile stone they had 94 infections noted.
but ~85 were in the placebo group and ~9 were in the vaccinated group
so they say its 90% effective because of the ratio of vaccine:placebo infection rate

its still too early to say that the other 21,990 are actually protected by the vaccine. or just been lucky enough to have not been near weird face lickers who were sick and pass it to them

they want to start a trial in january+ where people are actually put in proximity of sick people/given the active virus to see if the vaccine does protect the other 21.9k

emphasis: so far results are still not clear if its actually working or if people just are not hanging around sick people
all they can establish is so far of the numbers getting sick in the placebo group from normal life and coming into contact.. the vaccine group have had 90% less sickness

but yea only 94 infections in both groups out of 44k participants in both groups.. is just too early to be definitive

so just 7 months ago we had many idiots fearing 5G and crying their lungs out about how they dont want 5G in their cities because their cult told them it penetrates their tin foil hats.

well china is yet again going to be one step ahead.. with 6G. making other countries like america and UK left right behind by multiple scales of speed delay.

i do find it funny how western countries that meant to be technically savvi are fearing tech and not wanting to stay uptodate.
but with 6G internet within reach, can we please start to get the crypto devs to finally shut up about how blockchains need to be stalled out at slow speeds of below 1mb/s.. and actually realise that countries can go faster and in next few years will be going even faster than a 10-100-1000x fold.

come on people. be techno savvi not techno feary. lets actually enjoy fast internet and its possibilities. and not fear it hoping we can go back to caveman life of survivalists offgrid

so in the last 6 months we have seen many protests. and most end up just turning into riots/media circuses but dont cause actual change. and here is the reason
many idiots think a protest is about causing a riot/damage to get media attention under the hope that they can blackmail government into changing laws just to get the property damage to stop.
sorry this never works

instead this scheme just makes the protests subject matter get lost in translation and appear like it only benefits radicalists and criminals, thus making it less likely to even be discussed in government.

so here is the way to really make it work.
weeks before a protest communicate with those people that want the subject matter addressed in government, and get them to sign a petition. actually get some notoriety on paper(petition website).
once you have got enough participants. then plan for the protest to be a peaceful presentation of the protest to the government. walk the streets and actually show respect for personal space and property.

it does not mean 1mill need to all travel to washington for just one protest. it can be 100k going to the 10 main states affected by the subject matter.
atleast getting some local representatives to acknowledge the petition at city town halls can add some credit to the petition. by saying its endorsed/favoured by local representatives. this then makes the senators more willing to take it onboard and sponsor/cosponsor it themselves
then when you feel like it has had local endorsement/favour. take it to washington and do a peaceful protest to present the petition there.
write out the petition like a draft bill format

by actually shouting 'we have petitions government' rather then 'we hate government' it then becomes governments job to do something and not just turn a blind eye
..
so here it is
just showing 'we want X' 'we want Y' 'we hate government' and so on just gets the message lost in the crowd where government have no clue what people actually want
but if you plan out the needs of a certain subject matter. and actually explain solutions. and formulate it into a written request with 100k+ signatures confirming it. its not that easy to then have the government ignore it. it wont confuse them.

many idiots think the womens suffragettes just run around being radicals and damaging property. but they were not. that just media spin. they actually caused positive change by doing petitions and actually getting their message heard in government.

so dont just think 'if i turn up and chant.. things will change' they wont. it will just seem like your not being heard and some idiots then resort to violence thinking that will make them heard. again no.

governments like things on paper. lists of demands and desires in a nice easy to understand format that makes it clear what they can do to fulfil the desires

take police reform
just having idiots screaming 'defund the pigs' gets nothing
instead. listing what retraining police forces should offer. what certain arrest methods should be abolished(knee on head). and if police should even raise their gun on just suspicion or actual visual confirmation the suspect has a weapon in their hand pointing at the cop.(because in america just having a gun is not a crime so no one should be shot for just having a gun)

actually write down the desires and solutions. then get it recognised as a public desire by petition signatures. then get some higher up recognition/endorsement by local council/representatives.. then get it properly infront of the eyes of the whitehouse and congress
make it so there is no excuses to ignore or pretend they dont understand whats needed
dont make it just a frat street party

oh and to all those anonymous radicals. if you are too afraid to put your name forward to a cause that means something to you. maybe it doesnt mean that much after all. maybe you just want an excuse to get angry and destroy something. if so. just dont

its been said many times but think its worth a topic of its own

the current phase 3 vaccine trials are not going to complete before christmas.
they are going to go on for most of 2021

there are 4 things they are looking for
a. if the vaccine causes adverse illnesses/reactions due to vaccine itself
    (should get some results in 3 months)
b. if the vaccine actually triggers the immune system to respond to its pathogen
    (should get some results in 3 months)
c. if the vaccine does/doesnt cause and long term adverse illness/reaction
    (should get results 6months-2 years)
d. if the vaccine prevents reduces the chance/risk of getting covid again
    (should get results 6months-2 years)

so america's media stories of 'we will get a vaccine soon' but when quoting which trial. for instance astrazenica has a trial timetable of expiring in july-october 2021
yep no results before december

yes they will know if its harmful or not in of itself. but not if its actually a vaccine or a placebo

so if anyone is thinking they will get a vaccine by christmas and that vaccine is actually going to make them immortal from covid.. forget it.

the reason why its 6month-2 years to actually find out if it can actually protect against covid. is because its against all ethics and morals to actually purposefully inject someone with a virus that is of known deathly consequence. so people have to get it the old fashioned way. from other people

so what is happening is trial participants are selected as the groups that not only smart and sensible to not be knitpicking complainers about every little time they stub their toe on a object and blame it on things. but also their career puts them naturally in proximity risk of getting covid naturally. and so its just waiting it out for them to get it by normal community spread.
yep this is why teachers and healthcare workers are part of phase 3 trials.
and for emphasis. all we will know before christmas is if the vaccine has caused any negative issues from the vaccine itself.
finding out if it actually protects against covid will be mid to late 2021

. i say this and i hope people know this. so they are not shocked and start saying the health/experts/vaccine creators/government/media lied.
no
just idiots like trump lied and over promised things before christmas

i find it stupid that police feel the need to shoot someone under the normal 'self defense' clause that allows cops to shoot. yet the guy got shot in the back, meaning he was running away, not towards

i find it even more stupid that while jacob blake is paralysed in hospital. police now feel that he is a risk of running off

is america really this dumb. i ask because the more americans i interact with the less common sense they seem to have

the most annoying thing people find about governments is their decisions about what to spend treasury money on

for instance, wars in foreign countries are funded by treasury "defense" money. yet obviously are "offiensive" used.

so when countries invade other countries for land disputes of oil rich locations. should governments treat the acquisition of these plots of land as a public asset. meaning the government then create the fuel to sell direct to citizens to get funds back to recoup the initial funding.
should the government just hand it to private companies and then charge that companies customers large tarrifs/sales tax. meaning no risk/bad side for corporation. and risk is on treasury/citizens
or should private companies fund these 'exploration' missions and 'defense' missions and then get to keep what they find. no tax out no tax in. where risk is on the corporation

..
other things like the movie industry and factory industry which has local governments bid to companies with different state tax benefits/grants/reductions to get them to set up a business in their state to increase employment options,
if say there are 50k possible new employment oppertunities at $40k a year. and knowing over a year that causes a fund circulation and taxation that can end up as being $20k per employee into the treasury.
($1bill into treasury) along with no longer having to give social security benefits to those 50k people means that it can be a total of $1.5bill going into treasury.
should states give corporations 'tax breaks' /grants/ reductions of over $1.5b in this scenario

..
in short what im asking is if you had full control of treasury spending and decisions. would you want taxes to go to protect corporations at the loss of citizens. or protect the citizens at a loss of corporations

which lines would you draw where you have seen examples of wasteful spending

something that might hurt russian income.
nasa is finally letting elon musk taxi astronauts to the international space station today

if all goes well then russia will lose multiple hundreds of millions of dollars of trade deals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aymrnzianf0

edit
ok launch aborted. bad weather.
try again may 31

So this pandemic event has shown the world some surprising things.
such as how different countries handle a pandemic.

so to get our thinking caps on and think about best practices for the future. lets list the good and the bad things that can change the velocity of tragedy.

ill list a few
BAD: hospital lack of capacity and resources - all countries
BAD: no chasing of close contacts where it might have passed on - most countries
BAD: waiting months before implementing ordering resources, requesting people to change habits -all countries
BAD: continuing to allow cross border transport/repatriation between different areas -all countries


i predict people will moan about the 'isolation'.. yes we know it has changed our lifestyle habits/routines. and that is always going to be the case in a pandemic. but instead of complaining about it generally. mention the good and bad about the specifics of it

so folks list some good and bad things you have noticed about this event and what can be used, avoided for a better policy in the future thats best for peoples health and survival (not based on convenience)

*self moderated purely to weed out the conspiracy trolls/ pandemic deniers
anything else is permitted

imagine a government treasury set up like 10 'stable coin' addresses for 10 government departments

social security (unemployment/housing/statepension)
local security(police)
homeland security(secret service/fbi/military defence)
offensive security(military offence)
social care(mental/rehab/domestic)
social services(roads/maintenance)
medical
fire rescue
environmental
education

where by if someone calculates they owe say $20k
the could buy $20k of a stable coin and then send the $20k out to the 10 addresses in fractions of their own choosing to area's that mean most to them.

what thoughts would people have. also. give an example of how you would allot a $10k tax bill
and link the tx ID and a signed message of proof .. to show they paid their taxes..
firstly proces they pay it. secondly lets them 'vote' for things that mean most to them

me personally:  (copy and edit your prefered numbers)
[$1k]social security (unemployment/housing/statepension)
[$1k]local security(police)
[$0.5k]homeland security(secret service/fbi/military defence)
[$0k]offensive security(military offence)
[$0.5k]locial care(mental/rehab/domestic)
[$1k]social services(roads/maintenance)
[$2k]medical
[$1k]fire rescue
[$1k]environmental
[$2k]education

alot of people think quantum is some transdimensional multi universe theory that breaks physics. sorry. but it aint

simply put the 'dimension' reference is not about multi universe, but instead 2D to 3D

in even more simple form

binary          quantum
   1                   3
   |                  1+2
   0                   0

or if your into the electric voltage
binary: 0v or 1v
quantum: 0v or 0.33v or 0.66v or 1v

what this means is that a bit is 0 or 1.... and a qubit is 0,1,2,3
meaning that to get a number of 16 requires 4 bits 2x2X2X2
but requires only 2 qubits 4x4

so using 8 switches/bits/qubits binary can go to 256, and quantum can go to 65536

the whole story of quantum being off and on at the same time is not a thing of breaking physics. its simply that instead of having 2 options of off and on there are 4 options where the ones in the middle give more choice.
its like a light switch vs a dimmer dial light panel
when only a 3rd of power is let through to a light, the light is not fully off, nor fully on.. its just dimly lit

having 4 options instead of just 2 allows more complicated choices. EG
it changes simple yes or no questions to being allowed to be answered with no, sometimes, most of the time, yes

imagine it like driving a road but your GPS only allowed you to go forward(1) and backward(0)
then
imagine it like driving a road and your GPS allowed  forward(3) and backward(0). left(1) right(2)

if you check out google 'quantum' system you see this
binary
0--1

quantum
 2    3
    X
 0    1

having seen prison systems fail to punish people due to re-offend rates
having seen prison systems fail common sense by giving smaller crimes harsher times.. and harsher crimes smaller times

knowing the costs of incarcerations costing alot ($£30k a year per inmate in many cases)

what views do people have for a better system
would it be instead of putting people with drug/alcohol issues where no other person was harmed. put into rehab
would it be for financial crimes people made to repay financially.
EG made to do volunteer work for just $500 a month social security($£6k) and the other $£24k going back to victims

i think what im basically saying is if you know it can cost $£30k a year for punishment. how many years would a particular crimes punishment deserve being spent on it. and what 'service' (cells,rehab,community,other) would you spend the funds on

so imagine you had your own island/continent and had the ability to write the laws and consequences. what would they be

ok so the vegans dont like killing or harming of animals

so my question is. what would society look like if we did go full on hippy and not kill harm, cage, trap animals?
meaning no farms, no vets(who gonna pay the bill), no slaughter, no culling, no pest control. just leaving animals to roam free

take human population. each generation is ~20 years and most couples have ~2 kids as replacements for them.
obviously the parents have more than 20 years to live. so 2 become 4 become 6 (grandparents die4, great grandkids born6) become 6again become 8 and so on.. which as we all know causes over population in millenias from caveman times to the future

so with chickens that lay eggs far faster and in more quantity
with dogs an cats having litters of multiple offspring.

obviously with no boundaries no 'cullings' no organised killing and just left to be wild and die naturally.. and breed naturally do vegans actually realise the consequences of wanting to get rid of farming.

do vegans actually know what happens to animals if not taken care of
alot of media has provoked the attention of asian countries 'burning dogs' but what they dont address is the overpopulation of dogs due to the previous era of not controlling the population and allowing dogs to roam free.. in essense the 'roam free, live free' philosophy of groups that vegans pretend to now be before vegan was ven a word. are the very reason for the cause of such provocative media stories recently

in my view the native indians had it right. kill what you need, use every piece of what you kill and respect and control nature around you.

i would love to see vegans reaction if they were suddenly charged a farm tax to look after a cow for a full long life, cover all the vet bills, feed, cremation and such. but where the vegan doesnt get any 'product' out of the extra charge

my main point being
when looking at the damage things like british badgers/foxes.. american coyotes, racoons, australian possums and world wide rats. what would the damage be like if it was ruled out to not slaughter, not cull, not treat them as rodents/pests

[Moderation note:]

Generally speaking, any level users of the forum are easily mislead legendary are just as much as newer members sadly..

users are not always in a position to defend themselves from misinformation and their nodes are treated as 'compatible' thus they have no way of stopping certain groups roadmaps. any nodes redesigned to oppose such are thrown off the network

It appears as though there are some unscrupulous people out there who would take advantage of this.  It's therefore vital that we give all users the real knowledge to be able to differentiate between lies and genuine assistance when they are presented with information about technical subjects.  As such, this topic wil rebut the the propaganda that other networks are a better way to transact and will stand as a handy guide on how to counter any fraudulent or deceptive arguments being presented by malicious users.

Moderation note:  Any malicious users who are quoted as sources of lies are permitted to post in this topic. but will be  corrected. and at worse, yawned at and laughed at. if they dont like it they can hit the ignore button.. its free


ISSUE #1:

"The Lightning Network will encourage users to leave Bitcoin by locking it up in smart contract vaults that are co-signed by elite users called "factories" who will charge for the service of being the entry and exit of broadcast tx and they will handle the non blockchained payments inside LN (other network thats not bitcoin). all due to certain devs stagnating bitcoins network scaling and implying bitcoin cannot transact well.. yet its the stagnation and stuff the devs have done that is the hold up. not blockchains themselves.
blockchains are not self coding AI. devs code it, so any problems it has come down to devs.

the result would be that average joe will end up seeing different blockchain coins as favourable when they want to exit the non-blockchain network. due to other blockchain networks having lower fee's and allow more transaction throughput
again bitcoin is not an AI that self coded in limitations and fee increases and self stagnated. developers purposely limited bitcoins scaling opportunities these last 3 years.

here is a person claiming it wont be the case, but he himself in his own reasoning shows that it will be the case that people will atomically swap within the non-blockchain network

REASONING:
It's called an Atomic Swap.  The clue is in the name.  It stands to reason that you can't swap coins on your blockchain with coins on another blockchain unless someone with coins on that blockchain wants some coins on your blockchain.  People will want to hold bitcoins due to the comparatively higher levels of security and adoption in relation to other coins.
If you relinquish ownership of some bitcoins and take ownership of a proportionate amount of altcoins, the owner of those altcoins will then take ownership of the bitcoins you just swapped.

this is exactly what banks done with the gold market in the 18th-20th century by offering something thats not as secure as gold but "convenient".. and eventually people didnt want to play with gold no more. eventually realising silver and copper coins were easier to handle. and then the banks got to keep the gold while swapping ownership of the gold from the users to the banks and letting users then have silver and copper coins

ISSUE #2:
thinking a swap is an equal 2people enter 2 people exit(one with btc, one with altcoin). and here is a persons foolish attempt to sway the sheep to sleep by saying it will all be ok

It's not a one-way street.  A swap is only completed if someone takes ownership of the bitcoins.  As such, it's only natural that there will be as many users coming in as there are leaving.  This will not result in a reduction in the number of people using Bitcoin.  

an elitist factory(bank) takes in peoples bitcoins under their smart contract cosigned address.. its not one person with bitcoin one person with an altcoin.
its one bank with altcoins and multiple people with bitcoin.
thats what an LN factory is. a bank vault where many people lock funds up with one entity and then the factory hands out non blockchained, unaudited unconfirmed 'payments' to users so that users can play around within LN

once those people end up wanting to leave LN by needing a factories signature to do so, users will naturally want the cheapest fastest easiest way to get their value out of LN

thus naturally leaving with altcoin and the bank as one entity keep the bitcoin..
reasons.. as explained in issue #1

ISSUE #3:
many have been fooled initially that LN is a bitcoin only network layer that will make bitcoin scale and more popular. but that is a myth

LN is a separate network, it is not as secure as bitcoin, it does not solve the byzantine generals problem, it does not have a blockchain to even community audit the payments. users need other users for it to function. the other users need to sign off an payments. and many other issues.
yes i understand the promoted "convenience" POSSIBILITY. but in no way is it a bitcoin scaling tool. its a separate network to get people away from using bitcoins network. and locking people bitcoins up in co-signed contracts. and making it harder to exit LN via things like factories gatekeepers/watchtowers that are made to persuade users into keeping bitcoin locked up, by reissuing new offchain transactions as oppose to broadcasting bitcoin transactions out.
and lastly by making bitcoins network innovation of scaling be stiffled for 3 years just to keep up the persuasion that bitcoins network is not the best utility for value(facepalm)

so if anyone wants to refute this and instead continue the lie that LN is made just for bitcoin. try checking the code.
https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/blob/master/chainregistry.go#L579

Code:

litecoinMainnetGenesis = chainhash.Hash([chainhash.HashSize]byte{
0xe2, 0xbf, 0x04, 0x7e, 0x7e, 0x5a, 0x19, 0x1a,
0xa4, 0xef, 0x34, 0xd3, 0x14, 0x97, 0x9d, 0xc9,
0x98, 0x6e, 0x0f, 0x19, 0x25, 0x1e, 0xda, 0xba,
0x59, 0x40, 0xfd, 0x1f, 0xe3, 0x65, 0xa7, 0x12,
})

// chainMap is a simple index that maps a chain's genesis hash to the
// chainCode enum for that chain.
chainMap = map[chainhash.Hash]chainCode{
bitcoinTestnetGenesis:  bitcoinChain,
litecoinTestnetGenesis: litecoinChain,

bitcoinMainnetGenesis:  bitcoinChain,
litecoinMainnetGenesis: litecoinChain,
}

 and as pointed out thus far even by the guys over promoting LN who are now FINALLY admitting its purpose to get people in, and then atomic swap them for altcoins(issue 1)

ISSUE #4:
people still insist that bitcoins network has scaled in the last 3 years due to segwit.

yet. segwit byte for byte is heavier on a hard drive than legacy bitcoin transactions. bitcoins original creator calculated under lean, non bloated contracted silly feature conditions. where users just do lean transactions of one spend, one recipient, one change address.. would allow 7tx/s (604k tx a day) this was an estimate given 8 years ago.
segwit of same lean 1 in 2 out wont get 600k a day for the same 1mb hard drive space
and....
the wishwashy code allows
partial data to be miscounted(witness scale factor)
separated(segrgate witness).
and the pretense of there now being a 4mb "weight" limit.
even the devs that created segwit admit that it wont achieve a 2.4m tx a day threshold(4*1mb estimates)
they cant even guarantee a 1.2m tx day (2*of 1mb estimates)

even now. there has not been a day that has pushed passed the 600k tx estimated threshold that has existed since 2009

segwits aim was not to be a scaling solution. as the byte for byte bloat proves (though many devs try hiding it with wishy washy scale witness and vbytes code)
segwits utility is to be the gateway tx format to persuade users over to other networks, such as LN.
while also adding in a trojan back door to allow devs to now change the network without using bitcoin consensus.
(their buzzwords 'inflight upgrades'/compatible softforks)
which if certain things are added that have malicious intent. users wont have consensus to prevent it as that has been by passed with the "compatibility" backdoor and threats of being taken off the network if they attempt to oppose segwit or deactivate it.

This post will be updated with more issues that will and are negatively affecting bitcoin.

just remember they dont want bitcoin to scale. they want people to lock up thir bitcoin, play with other networks and not return so that elitists can stockpile the bitcoin. because they want bitcoin as a "reserve currency" not a open peer to peer cash network

so series 3 was released this week. its a show all about cryptocurrencies
available/showing on sonys crackle platform/channel..... of them cough streaming sites cough that are not affiliatd with mainstream broadcast platforms

starring
dork from 'the OC'
watson from 'sherlock', he also in recent 'fargo' series and a few marvel movies
hellboy from 'hellboy'

series one was about starting an altcoin, and pivoted into ICO and blackmail and VC funding
series two was about ICO and blackmail, kidnapping and murder ending with releasing a openbazaar LN hybrid

series three begins with the openbazaar LN used as a silkroad(darkmarket) which brings in the NSA trying to get involved

this might cause a stir in the speculative market. as it was not a coincidence that just making an altcoin mutated into "ICO's" around the time of the hype of series 1&2

im writing this here because eltoo is not a bitcoin feature. its not even an blockchain so doesnt belong in the bitcoin or altcoin section. its a feature for a separate non blockchain network that will be used for multiple coins offchain.

i also going to moderate it purely to delete any anal people that just want to sling mud(insult) because of whatever PR bias they have to defend a social group, rather than actually talk about the topic.
but dont fear. if you actually reply to talk about the issue. without slinging insults you'll be fine

personal note
windfury ill give you a bit more respect than doomad as you dont sling insults in every post for drama entertainment
as for research. try google, not the boys club i see you keep conversing and echo chambering in. after all. if you havnt learned about eltoo yet, it seems they are not teaching you

now lets begin
first step down the factory rabbit hole
https://blockstream.com/2018/04/30/eltoo-next-lightning.html
"

Beyond Lightning
One such multiparty off-chain contract is the channel factories presented by Burchert et al. as a scalable way to fund any number of payment channels on top of a single on-chain transaction and to rebalance or reallocate them dynamically without ever touching the blockchain.

"

this is where it is saying that its adding another layer away from the onchain transaction
EG you dont fund a channel direct. you fund a factory onchain... then OFFCHAIN(emphasis) the factory funds a channel. and the channels settlement does not close back onchain. but the settlement returns funds back to a factory.

you can imagine it like funding fortknox with gold. and locking gold to fortknox. and then let fortknox hand out paper promissory notes (offchain tx) to individual channels (accounts).. then the accounts dont close by handing gold to the user, but handing the prommissory note back to the factory. where by the factory then gives new promissory notes to new channels(accounts) to avoid broadcasting back to the blockchain

the link to Burchert et al goes into more detail. but the funny part is the first opening paragraph. is the obvious bitcoin is broke cant scale wont scale mantra.. but if you actually care about bitcoin the network instead of core the monarchy. you will know why it cant scale. because core halted scaling onchain. (halting onchain to make lightning, to then have lightning supporters say the halted scaling means lightning is needed more(thats like starving your kid so you can eat then blaming your kid for not growing))

also i am providing links from the side i detest for good reason, just to show it the information is theirs and not some information gleamed from some social drama group. or a group that some people call the core opposer's.. that way it cant be said that i am linking information that is just biased against the eltoo/core crowd
(if it comes from the horses mouth. you cant say 'nah ignore it its just an ass(donkey) talking)

[sabbatical from Blockstream]

edit

poor gmaxwell moved a post away from another topic so people were less likely to read it.
more twisting the narrative to fit his scripts
but i put the post back in its place as it refers to the twaddle he was rabbiting on about in that topic

gmaxwell you spent many conversations in that 0bin trying to pretend matt corallo is not an "employee" of blockstream.

yet again many people see your half twisted wording.
just be honest

matt changed from "employee"  last month and is now "employed" by chaincode labs but remains a 'contractor' of blockstream under the title advisor and his "employment" at blockstream is not terminated. just set to on sabbatical/contractor

you could save yourself alot of trouble by just being honest

https://blockstream.com/team/   (scroll to bottom - advisor)
http://bluematt.bitcoin.ninja/2016/08/08/chaincode/

I’m excited today to announce that, for a few months this coming fall, I will be taking up residency with Chaincode Labs in New York on sabbatical from Blockstream. Even more exciting - we’re looking for people to come join the fun!

in short. if matt corallo is not part of team blockstream do 3 things.
1. take him off the listing of team members of blockstream
2. dont give him access to your blockstream product 'elements'
3. or admit he is still involved in blockstream .. and man up and say so

lets please avoid the lame kardashian drama 'who is satoshi' distractions of the roundtable.
and lets ask, discuss and look into the real question that should be asked:

what actual proposals of bitcoin code changes, features and demands were discussed at the round table

coindesk has made a summary
http://www.coindesk.com/blocked-block-size-bitcoin-basics-satoshi-roundtable/

any other sources and info? which would help the community know whats been said and suggested during their closed door meetings

Sidechains[altcoins] considered

That's not to say that the discussion didn't provide advances.

In conversation, prominent technologists seemed increasingly interested in testing scenarios in which a sidechain[altcoin], or a blockchain featuring bitcoins pegged to the main blockchain, would be used as a way to extend the tech's functionality while preserving its core.

Under this scenario, the bitcoin blockchain could theoretically support a separate blockchain[altcoin] that would have different features, such as say, an 8MB block limit

The discussion focused on two particular sidechains[altcoins] proposals introduced in recent months, though which had not been broadly been considered as potential ways to achieve scaling.

However, there was acknowledgement that other factors needed to be refined (such as how the sidechains[altcoins] would be secured). Also notable is that the idea would require the addition of new code to the bitcoin protocol by way of a soft fork, meaning miners would still have to signal support for the upgrade.

Conceptually, however, the idea seemed to have support, and a potentially broad appeal.

One attendee summed up the idea:

    "The people who want things to stay the same can keep everything. For people who want large blocks, you don't have to schedule a hard fork."

funny part is if an altcoin can cope with 8mb.. then all the "internet cant cope, nodes cant cope" rhetoric just got destroyed,  because obviously there is no node/internet issues if an alt can do it..

so just let bitcoin itself have the capacity starting at a rational dynamic beginning of say 2mb and naturally grow, knowing 8mb is possible. especialy knowing that they deem altcoins/node/the internet can cope with it..

just came across a documentary about bitcoin
called "banking on bitcoin"
cited as created 2016

sorry if this streaming site gives a couple annoying pop-ups. most sites do these days
if anyone can link a less annoying site, ill list it
https://123movies.cloud/film/banking-on-bitcoin-18789/watching.html

review
interviews with lots of people

mentioned everything from cypherpunks, a bit about how bitcoin works (no big technical detail, so noob friendly)
mtgox, silkroad, bitinstant, VC's jumping in, bankers starting altcoins. and a few speculations on who is satoshi

summary fair 50/50 unbiased. mentioning major events and history of bitcoin

[this is a thought experiment.]

this is a thought experiment.

imagine you had control of a countries economy and could revolutionise how money creation is done.
explain how you would prefer money to come into existence
explain who, when and why X should get it.

EG one
funds creation:
multisig. based on birth certificate registration between 2 parents and the birth/death registration office. (2 of 4 multisig)
funds created at signing birth certificate and locked.
funds usage:
released at set times EG 25% rate of national minimum wage(yearly total) is released per year (covers unemployment/state pension) from birth to death.
money creation value:
£$4k a year. making £$300k money creation per person living 75 years

EG two
funds creation:
multisig. based on birth certificate registration between 2 parents and the birth/death registration office.
funds usage:
funds are accumulated based on education. where if you attend education everyday you get extra credit. if you get C or above you get extra credit.
funds are unlocked by the employer "buying" your locked credit to then pay you.
thus the better you do in school the better locked credit you have and thus better job you can apply for to get paid better.
money creation value:
back luck at school: £$4k a year. making £$300k money creation per person living 75 years
good attendance C+: £$6k a year. making £$450k money creation per person living 75 years
good attendance A+and degree: £$10k a year. making £$750k money creation per person living 75 years

in both cases i could go into more details. but lets see what creative idea's people can come up with as a new national monetary system

take into account things like lessoning the requirement on taxes to cover poverty, while also helping people better themselves