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1  Economy / Currency exchange / WTB .5 BTC for PP usd on: December 18, 2014, 03:08:23 PM
Bitstamp last or close.

You send first unless you have more trust than me.

2  Economy / Digital goods / Anyone want "bitcoin Friends" facebook page? on: December 16, 2014, 08:57:13 PM
I no longer support Bitcoin and would like to give away my page.  I have not maintained the page for over a year now, but it still gets likes. The page has 710 likes on it now.

If you are interested in taking over the page let me know.

3  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / where to buy ripples? on: December 02, 2014, 02:16:57 AM
Where do you go to buy ripples?
4  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Self-issued credit! on: October 31, 2014, 03:42:08 AM
Is anyone working on a coin that is self issued! and backed by the ability to be redeemed in objective value in the form of labor or goods?
5  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Anyone building a digital coin that can actually replace fiat? on: October 30, 2014, 01:30:21 AM
I want to get involved with a digital currency that can actually work to replace government issued fiat, does anyone know of one?

It would require a standard and a different method for creating them (other than POS/POW). I have lots of suggestions and would like be involved in something that can make a difference. I would be willing to run a node for free and promote.

Not looking for bitcoin zealots, but open mined individuals who realize bitcoin's days are numbered and its impact will be minuscule, at least in its current form.

I am not talking about a medium of exchange for dark markets I am talking about a new monetary system for the masses.   
6  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / KNC trying to crash the market? no ROI for anyone but them ;) on: October 27, 2014, 09:55:29 PM
Why else would they come out and say it is costing them significantly less than 400 to mine coins, they are trying to drive out competition by crashing the price. They are hoping to starve you boys out. 
7  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Can we drop the decentralization lie yet? on: October 22, 2014, 08:24:11 PM
“It’s accelerated out of the garage and the homes, to the small businesses, to the large data centers, and now you’ve got to have a mega data center for it to be profitable.”

KNC bitcoin central issuing authority.. great job guys creating the same shit sytem we already have. 

8  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Ready to admit bitcoin is a failure? on: September 27, 2014, 05:24:10 AM
Just wondering how many people are ready to admit that it isn't gonna have main stream adoption?

I want to talk about why and what can be changed to fix bitcoin, but first we have to admit there is a problem.   
9  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Scarcity model bullshit. on: June 12, 2014, 01:14:08 AM
Its failed over and over again. Bitcoin is pointing out all of the failures of basing an economy on a finite item in limited supply.

Do you like KNC's bitcoin mining data center?
Do you like the consolidation?
Do you like the energy cost to create one bitcoin?
Do you like the price instability?
Do you like the willy report?

It sucks having the technology and being so close to something that could change the world but wasting time on repeating the failed attempts of the past.

There is a better way.

Money Power In You
E.C Riegel, Private Enterprise Money, 1944

"There is a treasure buried in your consciousness. If you will dig it up from the debris of superstition and fear that covers it you will gain a freedom and self-mastery that will lift your life to a higher plane. This is the money power in you.

The power to create money with which to purchase wealth, health and happiness actually lies dormant within you. You have thought of the money power as something remote from you and beyond your grasp. You have dreamed of the good you could and would do if you had money power. You have blamed others for not accomplishing this good. You have blamed them for evil economic and political conditions; for unemployment, for poverty, for crime, for war.

It is quite logical to blame these maladies upon the malfunction of the money power, but you have not suspected that the money power resides in you and because of your failure to exert it the world is afflicted with miseries. You have the power; you have the responsibility. The power and responsibility to banish poverty, unemployment, insecurity, misery and war rests entirely with you.

You, in cooperation with other intelligent persons, can drive economic and political evils further and further from the area of your life and ultimately they may be driven from the face of the earth. You can do this by the money power in you, expressed first in your own prosperity and happiness, and radiating to others. You can do it and you must do it. There is no power outside of you that can bring these blessings to you.

Petitioning the Government is like writing to Santa Claus. You need no laws — there is a law, a natural law that governs your money power. You need no government aid. You need only cooperation with and from persons who, like you, have resolved to exert the money power inherent in us all. This power in each of us needs only the recognition and respect of our fellows to spring forth and exert its blessings.

We need not petition Congress and we need not waste time to denounce bankers, for they can neither help nor hinder our natural right to extend credit to each other, and this is the perfect basis for a money system."

"1.The Scarcity Model: A single uniform quantity in limited supply made valuable by its own scarcity.
In other words, the value of this type of money depends on the supply of, and demand for, the money commodity itself. Conventional definitions of money define money only in terms of this model, a "medium of exchange". Examples are: cowries, gold and silver, fiat cash and coins, bank credit, and now, in the model's purest and most spectacularly speculative form, Bitcoin.

2. The Abundance Model. A promise of something specific from someone specific made valuable by its redemption in real production. The value of this type of money is defined by the promised redemption in goods and/or services. As such, this type of money is promises of an indefinite number of non-uniform commodities in indefinite supply and, unlike the limited quantity "coin" concept of money, the total quantity of these credits in circulation does not affect their value, because the value of a credit is defined by what its issuer will redeem it for in real goods and/or services. Examples are: business-to-business barter credits, customer rewards, travel points, discount coupons, mutual credit systems."

If you see anyone working on this concept of money please message me Thanks.

10  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Self issued credit.. how to create my own coin? on: June 10, 2014, 05:32:51 PM
I want to make a Sublime coin. I want to issue my own coins that will be redeemable for items in my ebay store or for online purchases. I want to denominate them in a socially objective standard like the rogers commodity basket index or Joules of work and use the ripple network to manage transactions with it.

Is there a simple way for me and friends to mint our own coins?   
11  Economy / Currency exchange / WTS BTC-e code dollar for dollar. Looking for moneypak or trusted PP. on: February 24, 2014, 10:28:00 PM
I can do a 300 usd btc-e code for a 300 usd moneypak. I never go first.
12  Economy / Economics / Paul Grignon Just made Bitcoin killer on: January 03, 2014, 11:29:14 PM this one is good.

For those that dont know Paul is the producer of money as debt. If you havent seen it check it out.

I love it he is creating digital CURRENCY with a definable unit and an elastic supply.

I have been bitching about this for months around the forums. He didnt use the joule standard that I have been advocating for, but he is using a commodity basket standard. Very Cool.

Okay Bitcoin killer might not be quite accurate, but when this takes off (or something like it) bitcoin will officially be the mysapce of digital currency.  
13  Economy / Scam Accusations / False alarm? on: December 12, 2013, 09:05:43 PM
 Still waiting but it looks like we just had mis-communication.
14  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Video debate I did on Bitcoin. "Is bitcoin Currency?" on: December 01, 2013, 12:09:02 AM

I know I move around a lot and that the editing sucks but check it out.
15  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Why gold is a poor UNIT. A must read for sound money advocates on: November 11, 2013, 07:21:15 PM
This is a conversation in response to a member of the ludwig von mises institute. Please read the entire post before commenting so we dont have to cover the same ground twice.  

ChrisandAmber North We dont need sound money we already have that. We need sound currency. Money is the units of the measure of value that are not only a representation of value but also have value. Examples would be gold,silver, spices, sea shells, oil. Similar to the units of length that not only represent length but also have length examples would be an inch worm,a ruler or yard stick. Currency is only a representation of value it doesnt have any actual value. Examples would be the dollar, bonds, or digits in a computer or a piece of paper that you write an IOU or the verbal representation of a promise. Similar to the units of length that dont have any actual length like the inch, foot, or meter. Saying currency has value is like saying an inch has length or a pound has weight. They are all just representations. Even if gold where to be the dominant form of money we would still have currency in the form of pieces of paper that represented the gold. The problem with having a currency system that is limited by gold is that it limits the amount of value man can create. We dont limit the number of inches, or pounds, and we shouldnt limit the unit of the measure of value, because we dont know how much value man is capable of creating. Defining the unit of the measure of value in terms of gold is like defining the unit of the measurement of length in terms of an inch worm. There is not enough inch worms to measure all the length we might need to quantify just like there is not enough gold to measure all of the value man might be able to create. That is one of the main reasons we keep having to redefine the dollar, man created more value than gold was capable of representing. What limits the number of inches? the amount of length in the universe and the number of pounds is the amount of mass in the universe or the subjective unit of a byte is the number of charged particles in the universe. So what is a representation that could quantify all of the value in the universe, I would recommend a joule = a unit of currency.
17 hours ago · Like

Rodney Brett You might be interested in this, ChrisandAmber. The Austrians have addressed the "not enough gold" argument a few times. Gold is just used as a way to keep prices stable and accurate, the denomination to the currency it's tied to is relative.

Chancellor: Not Enough Gold
Edward Chancellor in The Financial Times (requires free registration) after a fe...
See More
17 hours ago · Like

ChrisandAmber North "because prices adjust not only to the quantity of goods but the quantity of money." That is not honest money! It is not the value of the currency that should change with demand but the quantity. That system enriches people by simply holding currency. That is immoral. You should not get increased value for doing nothing. That is the way bitcoin and currency speculation works now.
17 hours ago · Edited · Like

Rodney Brett Yes, but the reason for the dollars to be pegged to gold in the first place(or bitcoin, or some other market driven currency) is that it becomes much harder to arbitrarily increase the money supply due to the scarcity of the commodity it's tied to. Unlike central banks which can print fiat at will, manipulating metal quantities is harder.(even though this is still done with multiple sales of gold ETFs by big firms like J.P. Morgan). Also, there is nothing inherently wrong with speculation. The process of investment requires an entrepreneur or counter party to do some of that. Speculation involves risk. You can take big losses as well. The money you make from that risk is the reward for taking it in the first place. "Holding currency" as you say is what savings is. Does this make the act of savings an immoral thing? That savings is the foundation for sound investment, as opposed to borrowed capital. The fluctuations in value of that savings would work out for the benefit of production, because the savers would be able to afford more capital goods. Now, if you're talking massive speculative bubbles, you get those kind of things with central banks mostly. What the Austrians focus on are the factors that hinder productive growth. What would be the alternative to create sound currency if that very currency is not tied to a tangible commodity(or scarce commodity like Bitcoin) if left to fiat alone?
16 hours ago · Like

Rodney Brett Sometimes speculators can even contribute to actually keeping the prices honest. Robert Murphy broke it down pretty well here.

Oil Speculators and Iran
In this ECON MOMENT, Dr. Robert P. Murphy explains how successful oil speculator...
See More
16 hours ago · Edited · Like

ChrisandAmber North Holding currency and gaining value is like holding pounds and gaining weight. Currency is just a representation of value it doesnt have value. It is the UNIT of the system of measurement of value. Units are objectively defined and a constant. It isnt the UNIT that should change with the amount of value we want to quantify it is quantity. An inch doesn't change length just because there are not enough rulers to go around.
16 hours ago · Like

ChrisandAmber North That is the state of currency today it is a system of measurement without a UNIT of measurement. It is pounds that change weight or inches that change length.
16 hours ago · Edited · Like

Rodney Brett, tying that dollar measurement to gold, a commodity that rarely increases in supply, is bad because? You see, that's what gold is.. a unit of measurement, as you say. It's tracking the depreciation of the value of U.S. dollars. If you look at the 10 year chart for gold to dollar, it's the smoking gun that inflation has been occurring rapidly for decades. If you are looking for value to be completely constant, all the time, then what would that value be determined by and what would a market as complex as ours use to determine the correct nominal amounts?
16 hours ago · Edited · Like

ChrisandAmber North 1 UNIT of currency is = to 1 Joule it just like the gold standard, it is honest, but the difference is there is enough of them to go around.
16 hours ago · Like

Rodney Brett Who says its got to be tied 1 to 1? As long as the thing it's tied to is relatively stable, supply wise, then it'll keep the money honest.
16 hours ago · Edited · Like

ChrisandAmber North It doesnt but it has to say constant. UNITs are the constant we measure against. That is how governments default in the past they change the unit. They change the definition. It is like this you owe 10 inches and you only have 9 so you change the definition of an inch give me the 9 and call it 10.
14 hours ago · Edited · Like

ChrisandAmber North That is why they keep having to change the definition of a dollar from 1/25 to 1/36 to 35 dollars an ounce. As man created more wealth and value than gold could be mined they would have to change the unit.
16 hours ago · Like

Rodney Brett You are pushing for the case for gold, then, based off your statement. You're saying that the numerical amount should stay the same. I agree.. but it doesn't stay the same today because governments inflate currency. What allows them to do so is the fact that the same currency is not tied to a rare commodity. Dollar prices rise as a result of this distortion, yet an ounce of gold from 30 years ago still buys you the same as an ounce of gold today. Dollar value changed. Gold value did not. The value that became distorted as a result of increased gold mining is very nominal.
16 hours ago · Like

ChrisandAmber North You cant tie it to a fixed amount. We dont know how much value man can create. You would have to know how much value man could make so you could create enough representations to facilitate all the measurement. Like if you limited the amount of inches to a set number then you would have to know how much length there is in existence. A joule is a usable standard we dont know how many of them there are but it is finite and quantifiable.
16 hours ago · Like

Ben Osborne You can't fix ratios like that even if you wanted to, you would get hoarding of one or the other asset. But you wouldn't want to I you could, if you have been listening to enough mises media
11 hours ago via mobile · Like

ChrisandAmber North ^ not sure what you mean the ratio wouldnt be fixed. You would still have a pricing mechanism. So it wouldnt be price fixing. For example. If 1 unit of currency was a joule and I wanted to quantify the value of a gallon of water the ratio might be 50 to 1 then if I wanted to quantify the same gallon of water in the desert the ratio might be 100 to 1 or on the moon it would be 1000 to 1. The unit always stays the same the price is the qualifier. PRICE IS THE REPRESENTATION OF THE SUBJECTIVE NATURE OF VALUE.
3 hours ago · Like

ChrisandAmber North A good analogy is this. Imagine you weigh a bowling ball here on earth where the is an abundance of gravity. It weighs 10 pounds then you weigh the same ball on the moon where gravity is scarce and it now weighs 2 pounds. The UNIT is constant. As it should be the pound is still a pound. To express the change in human perspective we put in a qualifier. We say as weighed on earth or as weighed on the moon. Price is the qualifier in the system of measurement of value, but it doesn't have to be. We could use qualifiers for every situation. We could say water is 50 joules of value as measured next to a river or it is 100 joules of value as measured in the desert, or water is 1000 joules of value as measured on the moon.
3 hours ago · Edited · Like

Rodney Brett I looked into what you are talking about and found two resources. An extensive write up on the topic and a forum discussion. Both the comments from the first link and the forum discussion were interesting, but some of the things that struck me as being key in getting the "Joule Standard" to work was:

-centralized planning and distribution of its "currency".
-the total amount of joules to be relatively stable for the foreseeable future.

How do you get around dealing with initial centralized monopoly in terms of who measures these things? Since it requires a great deal of trust from the public that cannot hold a joule in his/her hands. How does a market know how to price things without an authority to tell them how many joules each individual action required to produce "X" goods, including every step of energy consumption to produce that good? Who do you elect to manage the accurate measurement of every single thing that's produced in a free market?
2 hours ago · Like

Ben Osborne That's too intangible, a weight of gold is a weight of gold, and it will fluctuate against a measure of oil. Why introduce an intermediary? The goods are what's being traded, if you want to introduce another measure it has to be fixed to something so what's it going to be? Gold, oil or something else? It just further confuses the transaction. Goods vs a weight of gold it's all you need
2 hours ago via mobile · Like

ChrisandAmber North "-the total amount of joules to be relatively stable for the foreseeable future. " that is not true. If all the sudden there were an abundance of joules there would just have to be more representations. Everything else would reprice against the standard UNIT. For example 1 gallon of water cost 50 joules in an low joule environment then the same gallon of water would be repriced in a high joule environment to 200 joule per gallon of water.

You are right about there having to be an central issuing authority. Now we are getting to the heart of the problem with the existing monetary structure.

This was a very hard pill for me to swallow, but when helicopter ben suggested dropping currency from the sky he actually had a great idea. The problem is not that they create UNITS from thin air. That is where units come from. We just pluck them out of the air. Where does an inch come from? If we need more inches we just make them up. The problem is the distribution mechanism.

" How do you get around dealing with initial centralized monopoly" The way you get around it is the way that milton friedman suggested you let a computer issue the units. As demand goes up the digital currency could be randomly distributed into the wallets of the users of the currency as the demand went down it would have to remove units from the wallets of the users. Note that even though the number changes the purchasing power would remain the same.

We need a bitcoin that doesnt have a fixed amount and that is defined in objective terms. The elastic currency supply would have to expand and contract to keep the definition true.
2 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1

ChrisandAmber North @ ben there would be an intermediary in a gold based system. If I want to buy goods from china I am not gonna mail off gold and wait the 3 weeks for them to get it before they send off my goods. We need currency the piece of paper or the digit in the computer that has no value but represents the underlying value (gold in this case) to facilitate trade.
2 hours ago · Edited · Like

ChrisandAmber North You guys are asking the right questions
2 hours ago · Like

Ben Osborne Ahhh, I think we are advocating the same thing
2 hours ago via mobile · Unlike · 1

ChrisandAmber North Austrians get caught up on the UNIT being tangible. It doesnt have to be tangible it has to be objectively definable. An kilowatt is not tangible but is is definable in objective terms.
2 hours ago · Like

ChrisandAmber North Currency is defined a system of money in a particular region. Money is defined as a store of value, a medium of exchange and a UNIT of account. Units are all definable in objective terms and a constant . The dollar and bitcoin are not currency because they are not definable in objective terms and are not a constant.They are not currency because they are not UNITS. When the dollar was definable in terms of gold it was currency the problem with defining the unit of value in terms of gold is that it is limited. Defining a UNIT of value in terms of gold is like defining a UNIT of lenght in terms of an inch worm. We dont limit the number of inches or pounds the universe does and we shouldnt limit the number of units of value.
2 hours ago · Edited · Like

Rodney Brett Keeping in mind that money largely lies in the faith of what people deem it so. It's not so much the Austrians exclusively are obsessed with precious metals as a unit, but also that gold has been historically accepted as money for centuries. Perhaps wh...See More
about an hour ago · Like

ChrisandAmber North ^ joules have a history of value that far exceeds the history of the value of gold. Gold has been valuable for about 6k years force over distance has been valued since the dawn of man.
about an hour ago · Edited · Like

Rodney Brett Yes, it has a history of value sure. I'm taking about its acceptance as a means of currency. It's a psychological thing. When people can hold it in their hands, they feel like they safely own it and it is secure. Like I said, a few more years of purely digital transactions may change this mindset.
about an hour ago · Edited · Unlike · 1

ChrisandAmber North If anyone can get this conversation in front of an economist or philosopher I would love the input of an authority. I would greatly appreciate it. Austrians need to stop advocating a gold standard and start advocating a joule/ kilowatt standard.
about an hour ago · Edited · Like

Rodney Brett Not all Austrians advocate the gold standard, although most do. Some advocate a market driven basket of alternatives that compete.. because Austrians are also de-Centralists, they wouldn't necessarily be against a joule standard, so long as the free market chose it to be currency. Conceptually speaking, what you are talking about is in line with Austrian economics. It's the initial implementation of such a system that they may be uneasy about.
about an hour ago · Unlike · 1
ChrisandAmber North

This is a link to the original
16  Economy / Economics / Value is subjective to the individual but objective to the market. on: November 09, 2013, 04:38:10 AM
From the Mises institute

"With subjective preferences, there is no "measurement" going on. Modern economics can explain consumer behavior without assuming any underlying units of "utility." We only need to assume that people know how to rank units of goods in order from most to least preferred.

But when we switched from individual, subjective valuation to the market's objective valuation, things were different. Jill was no longer reporting on her personal taste, but rather on her estimate of what prices she could fetch if she sold the two items. The prices are denominated in money, which can be expressed in cardinal units. In that sense, money prices measure market exchange value."
17  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Biggest misconception in Bitcoin on: November 08, 2013, 10:06:45 PM
The biggest misconception is that it is currency... it's not.

I have been harping on this for a while now, but here it is from the owner of  second largest exchange BTC-china.


"China has been known as a nation of savers, who are always saving for a rainy day,” says Lee.  ”Bitcoin is a digital asset, like real estate, gold, or stock. It is just one more option now. With Bitcoin hard-coded to be limited, it’s like a collectible.”"

It isnt currency.
It is a digital collectible.
18  Other / Off-topic / A toe to sew A fing toe to sew... (I told you so) on: November 08, 2013, 04:50:02 PM
Man you guys are f@#$%d... I didnt realize what was meant by default trust.... f!@# you I dont trust any off you insiders. Especially TradeFortress there are numerous scammer threads about him... He is a lender! I dont trust lenders of coin!  I trust who I trust not who you think I should trust. Shit is bullshit.

Dont trust the default trust scores.

19  Economy / Currency exchange / WTS .12 BTC for paypal at btc-e rate. on: November 07, 2013, 06:22:11 PM
Title says it all.

20  Economy / Economics / Why bitcoin isn't currency. on: October 25, 2013, 05:56:36 PM
First, I dont want this to be true but it is.

Currency is a unit.

It is a unit in the system of measurement of value. Just like an inch is a unit in the system of measurement for length.

Units (and there have been thousands of different ones) all have 2 things in common.

1- They are not real. They are all made up, everyone of them is just an opinion. Inch, pound, meter, cat 5, g force,currency --- not real.
the are all just an opinion that we chose to share. We all share the opinion that an inch is so long, if we all shared the opinion that an inch was a foot then it would be.

2- All units are equal to a constant and are objectively definable.

Bitcoin is not a currency because it is not a unit. It has to be definable it has to be equal to something.  An inch is not real but it is definable.

* note that the USD no longer fits the definition of currency either. It is not a UNIT 

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