I mean it was a combo of things. The price did drop from like $27k to $25k or something right after the market found out Musk dumped all of SpaceX's bitcoin. But of course it had already dropped from $29k to $27k leading up to that. It was a combo or negative real estate / interest rate news (not bad for bitcoin but just bad for global economy), liquidations, and SpaceX, and Coinbase futures also got accepted and I wouldn't be surprised if people sold on that news as well as futures generally are looked at as a negative thing since it just allows more shorting of the market and no upside (no actual buying of bitcoin). All this stuff happened at once basically. But yeah, SpaceX news definitely dropped the market a good bit on its own cuz that's exactly when the crash to $25k happened, but it was multiple things all happening within 24 hours or so that caused the several thousand dollar drop.

Well let's not go overboard and compare Musk to Saylor. Saylor is a huge bitcoin bull, Musk is a market manipulator. He started turning his back on Bitcoin within months of getting involved in it, and he has always been a meme coin shill. Musk has always promoted dogecoin 100x more than bitcoin. I mean will Microstrategy sell a little bit of bitcoin here and there when they need to...sure, they already have done that once. But Saylor is nothing like Musk. Musk does things for attention. Saylor actually believe in Bitcoin.

Ah yeah I just saw this and I was like ooooooh that's why it suddenly dropped to $25k lol. Got a bunch of people hanging off Musk's every word dumping now that they got wind that he dumped everything.


Unless they are strapped for cash its a terrible decision. But then again Musk is increasingly known for making terrible decisions, and that certainly applies to his actions in the cryptocurrency world. Probably better to get it over with now, Musk is just a market manipulator, a meme coin shiller, and kind of a loon the past few years. Obviously not good optics for Bitcoin that one of the few major corporate holders of Bitcoin just dumped everything, but at least the Bitcoin world can just leave Musk in the dust and leave him and the dogecoin fools to play with themselves.

Also I can't wait for the retrospectives the next two years as the bull market heats up, mentioning how Musk dumped under $30k whereas he could have made probably 4x to 5x if he waited two years. That'll be fun to see haha.

As I've said on here a bunch of times ever since people got pointlessly excited over Blackrock: no ETF is gonna be approved.


Not surprising if SEC is delaying decisions, they've done that many times before with bitcoin applications. They typically just delay Bitcoin ETF decisions and then when they can't delay any longer they reject them. Gonna be the same thing for all the current ETF applications. As long as Gensler is head of the SEC there will be no Bitcoin ETFs getting approved, which means we've got minimum 3 years before a BTC ETF unless Gensler somehow gets removed from his office.

A debit card uses your national currency, so you can't just send money from a debit card to a bitcoin address because bitcoin addresses hold bitcoin, not whatever your national currency is. Debit card and bitcoin address use different currencies.


You can send money from your card or bank to a crypto exchange, then exchange the money for bitcoin, and then send that bitcoin from your account on the exchange to a bitcoin address you've created for yourself. A bitcoin wallet is a piece of software that lets you send transactions. You'd be using the exchange's wallet to send bitcoin to you own address, but you wouldn't need to use a bitcoin wallet yourself until sometime in the future when you want to transfer that bitcoin out of your own address.

Provide your keys in a will. Could always do a multisig as well where the will only has one part of what you need to access the coins, so nobody can get it just by looking at the will, and your family members have other parts of the multisig but not enough to get the coins without the will so they can't access them until the will is presented.

Or provide a partial key in the will and your family already has the other part of the key so they just have to put them together when the person dies.

I believe you can also make a transaction so that after a certain amount of time they coins in the address, if they are still there, get transferred to another given address. You give your family this other address, of course then the coins would officially pass to them whenever that time is up, not at the person's death, so it could be before or after the death.



But I bet every year some bitcoin is lost to owners dying, and I'm sure this will continue in the future, as probably most people aren't setting up how they will transfer their bitcoin unless they are old or sick. For example if I died my family would have no access to my bitcoin (something my mom likes to bring up as a reason why I should give her my keys haha, in her scenario she would spend all my bitcoin on doctors and medical procedures if something happened to me so that I would wake up broke lol).

So you are asking will you be taxes if you spend your bitcoin directly? Likely yes. Spending and selling is usually treated the same. For example, in the US it doesn't matter if you sell or spend, any transaction made with Bitcoin triggers a tax event. There could in the future be a law that doesn't include small payments in Bitcoin as taxable, thus allowing Bitcoin to be used as a currency for spending without tax accounting nightmares. But for now I don't know that that is the case anywhere. So yes you would still pay taxes whether you exchange bitcoin for fiat, for altcoins, or directly spend Bitcoin.

Short answer: YES

Zero chance. Gensler isn't going to do anything to allow Bitcoin's presence in America to increase. Any ETF will either get denied or the decision will get delayed so they can deny it later. Same as always.

Gensler's term as chair of SEC doesn't end until June 2026. So no chance for an ETF approval for at least 3 years. As we all well know, Gensler has been very anti-Bitcoin and anti-Crypto. There's no way he lets an ETF through. The talk of Blackrock's ETF getting approved is no different than talk of every other ETF over the past like 6 years getting approved. It's all hopium. Though unlike earlier attempts from years ago, we have a fervently anti-Bitcoin SEC head now so even the hopium is just pure fantasy at least for the next three years.

A couple top crypto execs saying something doesn't make it true. Top crypto execs have plenty of times in the past made completely absurd speculations. People should forget about this ETF stuff for now, we are years away from an ETF. I think it'll happen this decade, but it'll be 2027 or later.

lol 5 years ago. Everyone knows he taught a Blockchain course years ago. That's why people (including myself) were hopeful he'd be pro-Bitcoin when he joined the SEC. But we all very quickly found out that was not the case.

But I think I see based on your "It's possible that you can't separate shitcoins from Bitcoin" comment what the likely common thread is among people who delude themselves into thinking Gensler is somehow pro-Bitcoin despite all evidence to the contrary.

It seems the people who think killing off altcoins would help Bitcoin are the ones that convince themselves that Gensler must be pro-Bitcoin (again, despite his publicly stated negative views on Bitcoin). I mean first off, killing off the exchanges in America (which has clearly been Gensler's top goal) DOES NOT help Bitcoin because adoption relies on those exchanges. But regardless of the result of if Gensler succeeded in killing off the crypto exchange industry in America, the leap you're taking that "he is attacking altcoins so he MUST be pro-Bitcoin" is based off zero evidence and very faulty logic, while there is loads of proof he hates Bitcoin along with every other cryptocurrency. Literally just listen to him anytime he talks about cryptocurrencies. He wants to see them all cease to exist, at the very least in America.


Also if you had ever seen my posts on here you'd laugh at yourself for saying I can't separate shitcoins from Bitcoin lol. Lots of my posts on here are trying to educate people about the vast difference between Bitcoin and everything else. Being pro-Bitcoin doesn't mean you have to pretend anti-Bitcoin people like Gensler are actually pro-Bitcoin. Also nothing in my post would have even suggested that I don't know the difference between Bitcoin and altcoins, so I dunno, just lots of lack of reasoning from the "Gensler likes Bitcoin" crowd, which is what it takes to be part of that crowd in the first place.

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lol I don't need to search for it! I've already seen it. Gensler has many times over the past two years made his opinion clear. So it is YOU that are too lazy to search for it. I'm not your mommy, I don't have to do things for you. If you haven't ever seen Gensler's public statements these past two years you are certainly capable of searching for them yourself. Your lack of desire to look up Gensler's public opinions is not an argument against me stating what he has publicly said.


You seem to be a very angry and hateful person lol. All I did was state Gensler's publicly stated opinions, thing he has been very clear on during his entire time at the SEC. And yet to you he is apparently a hero so much that you attack me for pointing out what he has said.

Believe whatever nonsense you want to I guess. I just think its funny that people convince themselves that literally the American that is causing the most trouble for the entire industry (which obviously includes the main thing in that industry - Bitcoin) is who you hold up as a hero, even though you claim to support Bitcoin. Keep your head under a rock if you want. That's up to you. But just don't get so angry when someone like me comes along and literally just states the facts. I said nothing whatsoever about any opinion on altcoins, I said nothing whatsoever about "evil gubbermint" or the government wanting to kill crypto, or crypto being Binance and Coinbase, or any of the other random made up attacks of the people who make an anti-Bitcoiner into a hero.


If you'd focus less on insults and conspiracy theories and putting an anti-Bitcoin person up on a pedestal, you'd have more time to actually pay attention to whats publicly available information that everyone already knows.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

Show me any shred of evidence that he isn't anti-Bitcoin lol. I've never seen any. He certainly has been completely anti-Bitcoin since he has been at the SEC. If he ever said anything good about Bitcoin prior to that, which I've never heard of, that doesn't matter anyways because that would just mean he changed his opinion by the time he started at the SEC. People change their opinion. Even if he did support Bitcoin years ago he doesn't anymore so I don't see why that are trying to base an argument on that? That's like trying to argue Michael Saylor is anti-Bitcoin because he used to be years ago.

Hell maybe he turned against the industry precisely because he was denied a job at Binance. I mean according to your logic he also wouldn't be going after Binance since he applied to work there, so obviously the argument you are trying to make doesn't hold.


Bitcoin is definitely not a security. That is true. Nobody would deny that. And that is the only reason Gensler isn't trying to get Bitcoin removed from exchanges, because he knows he has no legal argument whatsoever to do that. He's going with the strongest possible legal action he can possibly take against the Bitcoin/Crypto industry - attack everything but Bitcoin and try to shut down the American exchanges and try to get the non-American exchanges to end operations in the country, while also refusing any Bitcoin ETF (the one thing in his power to directly try to slow down Bitcoin's adoption).

Again, as I said in my last post, I don't get why people try so hard to convince themselves that Gensler is somehow pro-Bitcoin when everyone knows he is not and he repeatedly makes clear he is against Bitcoin. Ya'll seem like you'll be happy if Gensler destroys the industry in America and then you'll suddenly be shocked when that decimates Bitcoin's adoption in the US lol. It's not like it's some mystery what Gensler's views are on Bitcoin, he is very against it. It's super weird that some people try to say he supports Bitcoin. Ya'll trying to turn a guy who wants to see Bitcoin destroyed into some sort of Bitcoin hero lol, sooo weird.

Publicly available information buddy. If you think Gensler isn't anti-Bitcoin you haven't been paying attention to him during his two years at the SEC.

He has publicly stated numerous times his anti-Bitcoin and anti-Crypto opinion. I don't need to back that up, he backs it up himself every time he talks about it. At no point in time has he every said a kind word about Bitcoin. Anyone who pays attention knows that he is anti-Bitcoin. Just a couple monthly ago he literally said the US doesn't need cryptocurrencies and they won't last very long, he said the world already has digital money (USD, yet, Euro, etc) and doesn't need anymore. And that's just one of the latest times he has publicly stated his anti-bitcoin/crypto opinion.

I don't get how people convince themselves that Gensler is somehow pro-Bitcoin lol. Collective hopeful delusion I guess. You literally have to be be not paying attention to anything he has said and done in regards to Cryptocurrencies to have that opinion. Every single thing he has done with regard to cryptocurrencies has been to try to stop the industry in America.

People can't seem to separate their hope from reality. Which I guess is why some people on here actually expect Gensler to approve a Bitcoin ETF lol despite all the evidence showing there is 0% chance of that happening.

It'll probably just spend a few more weeks bouncing around on either side of $30k, and then break out to like $33k-$35k late August or September.

A few of the posters here seem to not understand the situation and seem to think this is the SEC supporting Bitcoin or even has something to do with SEC planning to accept a Bitcoin ETF.


lol. That is not the case!


Gary Gensler (and hence the SEC) is very anti-Bitcoin. Gary Gensler has literally said Bitcoin shouldn't exist. If it were up to Gensler, Bitcoin and all the rest of cryptocurrencies would cease to exist and the exchanges would all close down and the entire industry would disappear and the entire idea of cryptocurrency and Bitcoin would disappear from history.

If you're somehow reading this as the SEC supporting Bitcoin you are entirely missing what is going on.

The only reason the SEC didn't ask Coinbase to also shut down Bitcoin trading is because there is zero basis whatsoever for the SEC to ever make a claim that Bitcoin is a security or that they have any claim over Bitcoin. Just about every other cryptocurrency they can at least make the claim that its a security. Most cryptocurrencies are tokens created by companies who run an app or network and one of the main goals of that token is to fund the company's operations in support of the app or network (as well as of course make the founders rich). Now, I think cryptocurrencies should be regulated with their own custom made rules, rather than try to apply 1930s rules to something that was invented 80 years later, but at least in their own rigid controlling mindset the SEC can at least attempt to make the bad case that altcoins are securities. There however is no case to be made that Bitcoin is a security because it has from day 1 been created as a decentralized currency, not as a company product and fundraising tool.

So the SEC leaving out Bitcoin has absolutely nothing to do with them supporting Bitcoin. The SEC (specifically Gensler) wants to shut the entire Bitcoin and crypto industry down. He hates Bitcoin and crypto, he doesn't want it to exist. But he at least knows he has no legal pathway to go after Bitcoin itself, so he is doing the next best thing to attack Bitcoin and crypto, which is to try to shutdown and vilify/criminalize the exchanges that Bitcoin and the entire crypto industry rely on. The only thing Gensler can specifically do against Bitcoin is to continue to refuse to accept any Bitcoin ETFs, which will obviously continue for as long as Gensler is in charge.





Anyway, its insane that the SEC told Coinbase to stop trading all altcoins. Gensler is so far past the point of integrity I think all these overreaches by the SEC will not go unnoticed and there will be a strong congressional backlash against the SEC eventually since they are essentially acting as a corrupt govt body against Bitcoin and Crypto at this point, all due to one man's personal vendetta against Bitcoin and Crypto.

Nobody knew about Bitcoin in 2009. In early 2009 there was one person on the network (Satoshi), and then there were two (Hal Finney I believe). I would assume by the end of 2009 there were probably at most a few thousand people in Bitcoin, maybe only a few hundred.

And all these hundreds or at most few thousand people that were mining were mining with CPUs, "high-tech mining machines" didn't exist for years after this. I think GPU mining didn't even start until sometime in 2010? You're asking if companies or wealthy people attacked Bitcoin in 2009...nobody knew that Bitcoin existed in 2009. Probably only a few thousand people had even heard of Bitcoin. A 51% attack back then could have only been performed by one of the very few people that knew about Bitcoin back then and was actively engaged in Bitcoin, which means they had no incentive to do it. Also Bitcoin had no market value at that point either, it was still just an experiment back then so why would those few people involved with it bother to attack it?

It's sort of like asking if people were hacking ARPANET back in like 1970 when all it did was connect like 4 universities and nobody else knew about it.

Companies and wealthy individuals getting involved in mining or even just Bitcoin in general didn't happen until years later.

If you sell in 2025 just be sure to buy back on the crash in 2026.

Or you can just hold onto all the bitcoin you buy for the long term so that by the time you are in your 30s you will be wealthy, and not have to worry about selling and buying back.

Bitcoin, specifically, solves lots of problems. Other cryptocurrencies, much less. Though the idea of smart contracts and NFTs certainly can be real world solutions to things, but as of yet they've been mostly just used as money making schemes for the creators.



Specifically,

1. Hard currency - Bitcoin gives the world a hard currency. Haven't had one of those since nations stopped tying currencies directly to gold, which was well before the actual official dropping of the gold standard a half century ago. This means you can now save, store, and grow wealth in a currency rather than having to bet it on investment products like stocks.

2. Open global payment network - The world of digital payments is broken up into various walled gardens controlled by the banks. You can't send money anywhere you want, and usually if you want to send money to other countries you have to pay big fees. With bitcoin you can send money to anyone in the world with no restrictions.

3. 24/7 & fast transactions - Now this advantage of bitcoin is starting to be lost, for example the US just started initial deployment of their FedNow payments system which starts moving USD transactions off the old 40 hours a week and takes 4/5 days to make transactions to essentially from what I understand 24/7 and near-instant transactions. But at least over the old system Bitcoin works 24/7 and you get payments in like 30-60minutes which was orders of magnitude more efficient than how digital fiat transactions work, but again, the fiat banking system is now catching up.

4. Sovereign digital money - Digital fiat only exists in banks. Effectively, the bank owns any money you have in the bank, and you are completely under their control. And by extension your money is completely under the control of your government. There is no way to own your digital fiat yourself, and it is unlikely there ever will be. With Bitcoin, you are sovereign over your own money, only you control it. It's like burying gold in your backyard, but digital and you can transact with it whenever you want.



And then of course there are all sorts of use cases for humanity that spring out of these big problem solving features.
Stuff like banking the unbanked, storing wealth long term, better way to save money, transact globally far more easily, bring your money with you when you travel, not worry about exchange rates between various currencies when you travel, saving people in fiscally irresponsible nations from runaway inflation, allowing migrants and refugees to take their money with them, providing financial access to economically repressed populations, providing a financial escape hatch for people under very controlling governments, transacting digital money without bank/govt oversight and control, greater financial privacy, more seamlessly interact in an digital/internet-driven financial world, etc.

Plus there's various big benefits specific to bitcoin mining as well, like strengthening the energy infrastructure of the world, promoting the spread of renewables during this century of energy transition, solving societal or local heating issues in various places, etc.



So, yeah, Bitcoin solves a lot of huge problems with money. There's a reason people call Bitcoin a revolution...because it is revolutionary.

You should honestly laugh when people say Bitcoin doesn't solve anything or isn't useful. It's sorta like asking if electricity solves any problems back when the use of electricity was first invented but barely anybody was using it yet. Yes, it is extremely useful, but the infrastructure of that usage needs to be build out so it takes a while. With electricity you needed power plants and power lines to homes and lights and electrical appliances to be built out before the great invention of electricity for society was extremely useful. With Bitcoin we need L2 payment solutions to be improved and adopted and general Bitcoin adoption to increase and merchant adoption to explode and sensible taxation rules around spending Bitcoin before the great invention of Bitcoin becomes extremely useful.

Whenever you hear someone say Bitcoin isn't useful, or isn't needed (like Gary Gensler saying we already have digital currencies we don't need cryptocurrencies and cryptocurrencies shouldn't exist) that person is either entirely ignorant about Bitcoin or has an agenda which is causing them to lie to you. Most people are still simply ignorant, though there are plenty of people who will intentionally lie to you in order to attack Bitcoin. Knowing these basics about Bitcoin's immense and revolutionary uses and solutions to problems in the world will help you instantly see through the people who are don't know what they are talking about, and allow you to explain to them the facts if you so choose.

Seems like a bit more fair analysis of bitcoin mining than the hit jobs we normally see.


The public perception is still very against bitcoin mining and it'll take a long time to get people educated on why mining isn't as bad as it seems when you just blindly say "it uses so and so much energy".


Both Bitcoin and Bitcoin mining are highly misunderstood by the public and governments, and we need more legitimate research like this to erase the nonsense FUD that controls the public and political narrative so far.

Mining has huge positive benefits for renewable energy, energy infrastructure, and even heating issues in various parts of the world, not to mention of course the very important prime purpose which is securing the only open global decentralized digital currency the world has ever had and very possibly will ever have. My hope is that in a decade Bitcoin mining goes from being vilified to being used for good to solve energy/heating issues in the world. Right now the use of Bitcoin mining for these extra benefits are much more sparse than they could be if governments and the public realize the good and promote mining's use for those extra benefits to society.

Bitcoin has essentially been flat for the past 4 months (of course with some volatility in there from $25k-$31k during that period, but overall flat), so eventually yeah it'll break out, and probably fairly soon. I would guess it'll break out of this ~$30,000 range by end of August, maybe getting up to $35k in September. I'm expecting to see $40k get hit before the end of the year.

The halving is always what draws new money in. It's not like magically every four years like clockwork lots of people decide to start putting money into Bitcoin for random other reasons, the halving is always the reason. Or more precisely, the halving brings in a bunch of new money which increases the price and then a bunch of new people bring in a lot more money purely for speculation because they see the price going up, and that second wave of money is what causes the crash afterwards because they are the people who don't know what they are doing and get scared and sell as soon as the price starts dropping.

The halving is what brings in new money which is what leads to the bull market every four years.