Bitcoin Forum
May 10, 2024, 11:49:51 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 [16] 17 18 »
301  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Proof of Stake Bitcoin? on: August 03, 2017, 05:27:55 AM
1) You buy old keys that at the same time in the blockchain history had 15% of all coins. Maybe some old exchange keys (BTC-E? Wink ) will do the trick. (That is the "bribing attacker" Vitalik Buterin has described in his PoS analysis.)
2) You buy 15% of the supply and send them to your wallet, send them back to the exchange, privately mine a double-spend attack chain, and sell the coins again, and then you publish the chain for an attack.

3) You convince a majority of coin stake* to send a transaction to themselves at the same time and you bring the entire network to a semi-permanent halt as no new blocks will be produced since PoS coins are forced to put safeguards around the amount of time taken after a transfer of funds before staking can begin due to other long range attacks.

There are so many variations of the long-range attack that we almost certainly haven't discovered them all.

Cheers, Paul.


*) this could be as little as three people, depending on the distribution of coins at the time
302  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: The Superblockchain and Multi-Level Mining on: August 02, 2017, 05:21:22 AM
In my proposal, none of the blocks or chains in the superblockchain are thrown away so none of the work is wasted.

Quote
Miners will create duplicate superblocks (not subblocks) because they are working competitively, not because the difficulty is low. The blockchains in the subblocks aren't forks because they aren't linked. They exist in parallel rather than in series. You can think of them as different but equally valid versions of the same transaction history

Quote
Each level 1 superblock, created by a level 2 miner, is just a short blockchain- a chain of regular blocks.

Quote
2nd level mining
Level 1 blocks are ordered and processed into blockchains to create level 1 superblocks and duplicate transactions are deleted so that only one instance can be spent. The hash is a little more difficult and the mining reward is a little better.

Seems from these quotes that:

A) Difficulty is much lower in level 2
B) Miners will create duplicate level 2 chains
C) All but one duplicate is discarded

Explain why no extra PoW is thrown away compared to bitcoin?
303  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: The Superblockchain and Multi-Level Mining on: July 28, 2017, 07:11:45 AM
In any mining scheme where you throw away work, the more work you throw away, the less secure the whole system. As far as I see it, your proposal reduces overall chain security because of the increase in redundant work.
Well you're wrong. All mining schemes throw away redundant work (e.g. orphaned blocks). The higher the transaction volume, the more work has to be done and the more redundant work has to be thrown out. The numbers increase but the proportions say the same. None of it has a negative impact on security.

Yes, but you propose to *increase* the amount of work thrown away, because of the redundant data inside the sub-chains, compared to bitcoin.

Moreover, you are making an incorrect assumption about higher transaction throughput always resulting in more redundant data; this is necessarily true for a pure blockchain, but if you use a different LCR scoring rule, and include orphans in the weighting, you don't throw work away.

Read more here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1992827.0
304  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Proof of Stake Bitcoin? on: July 28, 2017, 07:07:07 AM
DO you guys ever think that bitcoin will do proof of stake? Just wanted to get some peoples insights on this.

No, because PoS doesn't work as a decentralised consensus. Every single PoS coin is a private club, with trusted owners, much like Visa the company is. When you invest in a PoS coin you are being tricked into thinking you're investing in the future, when actually you're investing something that can never work as designed.

Read this for more details:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1382241.0

Cheers, Paul.
305  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: how fix diff adjustment attack ? on: July 26, 2017, 08:52:21 PM
For anyone wondering, the coin in question is LBTC.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1981858.msg20340189#msg20340189

Stay clear.
306  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: how fix diff adjustment attack ? on: July 26, 2017, 08:11:50 PM
coin been adjustment do huge diff  with asic's end now i try to fix it , but cannot find any info how do this.

Ok. Kind of sounds like this has already happened from what you wrote. If it hasn't happened, you know what to do.
307  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: how fix diff adjustment attack ? on: July 26, 2017, 07:16:14 PM
if for some reason even 30% hash rate off any coin go away the transaction stop. Cataclysm, war with china etc... Quantum computer from NSA runed for 5 second end leave network.
This problem exist , it's problem not crypto algorithm - it's problem diff algorithm !

Ok use new algoritm how you say ? but if miner's left coin ? what to do ? You dont know ? whay you write on this topic ? Test net hv function for drop diff whay it not secure  end use ?

Those are unforeseeable, end of days style events. What you have done was entirely predictable and frankly stupid. I feel sorry for the people who hold whatever coin it is you have created.
308  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: The Superblockchain and Multi-Level Mining on: July 26, 2017, 04:29:10 PM
An increase in duplicate work but not forking. A cooperative mining scheme, like a mining pool, would eliminate duplicate work and be more energy efficient but it would also give a majority attacker total control over the mining process. Competitive mining is more secure and redundant work is unavoidable. A lower hash difficulty would be less secure in a single-level mining scheme but not in a multilevel mining scheme where the additional levels of mining work to secure the first.

In any mining scheme where you throw away work, the more work you throw away, the less secure the whole system. As far as I see it, your proposal reduces overall chain security because of the increase in redundant work.
309  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: how fix diff adjustment attack ? on: July 26, 2017, 02:37:18 PM
If this can be done your coin is not secure. Move to a PoW Algorithm that is egalitarian.

any algorithm can be killed when for them create asic. It's not reason to mow to other algorithm need fix problem. If it's not fixed - even bitcoin can be killed with this.

You've created this problem for yourself by lack of understanding. Bitcoin cannot suffer from this problem, since the state of the art in ASICs is already mining on that chain.

You made the mistake of using a PoW which already had vastly accelerated mining technology on a brand new coin.
310  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Could PoW mining be more decentralized by giving rewards for other tasks? on: July 26, 2017, 01:49:34 PM
So for example, you have one node that mines blocks as per usual, but then also have a reward for non-hashpower dependent tasks, such as confirming blocks? The logic behind this is that these rewards would incentivize people who dont have high hashpower to help improve security by vastly increasing the number of nodes that can confirm blocks.

right now, im thinking about designing an altcoin that uses both PoW to mine and then uses something like PoS, where everytime a block gets enough confirmations to be added to the blockchain, one of the nodes that confirmed it is picked at random and given a small reward (although nodes with higher stake would have better chance of winning). maybe it should be called "proof of confirmation"? People mining this coin would get to choose between PoW, which requires hashpower, or PoC, which doesnt

are there any problems with this idea?

What do you mean by 'confirming' blocks? A confirmation is an additional block built on top of the one containing your transaction. You appear to mean validating? This is something which all nodes do.
311  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: The Superblockchain and Multi-Level Mining on: July 26, 2017, 05:59:49 AM
Each level 1 superblock, created by a level 2 miner, is just a short blockchain- a chain of regular blocks.
Each level 2 superblock, created by a level 3 miner, is a chain of level 1 superblocks and is therefore a blockchain of blockchains.
The subblocks of each superblock are different blockchains but they are not forks.

But multiple miners will create duplicate sets of subblocks because of the lower difficulty, and I can't see how this is different from forking. How do you arbitrate between them?
Miners will create duplicate superblocks (not subblocks) because they are working competitively, not because the difficulty is low. The blockchains in the subblocks aren't forks because they aren't linked. They exist in parallel rather than in series. You can think of them as different but equally valid versions of the same transaction history. In any case, the elimination of duplicate transactions is part of the mining process at every level.

That's functionally the same as a fork. Forks are parallel, redundant work. In addition, there *will* be an increase in the amount of duplicate work (call that forking, or whatever) when you lower the difficulty, and this duplication reduces the security of the system as whole because you discard all but one set of duplicates.
312  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: The Superblockchain and Multi-Level Mining on: July 25, 2017, 07:37:35 PM
Each level 1 superblock, created by a level 2 miner, is just a short blockchain- a chain of regular blocks.
Each level 2 superblock, created by a level 3 miner, is a chain of level 1 superblocks and is therefore a blockchain of blockchains.
The subblocks of each superblock are different blockchains but they are not forks.

But multiple miners will create duplicate sets of subblocks because of the lower difficulty, and I can't see how this is different from forking. How do you arbitrate between them?
313  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Scaling bitcoin: the elephant in the room on: July 25, 2017, 08:33:14 AM
So the more dedicated miners are the common miners we know yet?

What is the difference than to 0-conf TX ?

Full nodes will likely be mining for profit, because they need up to date info on the latest blocks to make sure they get paid. The difference is that you wont need a mining farm to earn bitcoins anymore, even SPV clients can potentially earn a small block reward if they place their blocks on the longest chain and mine with sufficient difficulty.
314  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Scaling bitcoin: the elephant in the room on: July 25, 2017, 06:47:22 AM
How does the wallet=miner gets all the required data like last block, utxo,...? Only SPV style?

SPV clients will continue to work as normal. They can still mine blocks - it wont matter if they don't place their blocks right at the latest head block because their blocks will get referenced as an uncle by other, more dedicated miners.
315  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: The Superblockchain and Multi-Level Mining on: July 24, 2017, 05:46:54 PM
Assuming you can prune transactions and still end up with a valid sorting order - how do you address the increasing in forking resulting from the lower difficulty of stage 2 compared to bitcoin?
Forking doesn't happen until the last and most difficult level of mining, when the final level of superblocks are competing for inclusion on the superblockchain. Multiple chains of similar length may be competing and Bitcoin can handle it the same way it does now- by mining on the longest chain.

What prevents forking of level 2 blocks?
316  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: The Superblockchain and Multi-Level Mining on: July 24, 2017, 01:44:25 PM
It's not possible to avoid duplicates in your example but any two of the three blocks will include all three transactions so I can exclude one of the three blocks and quarantine the second instance of any duplicate transaction in a table entry that points back to the first instance of that transaction.

For instance, if I exclude block 2, I get duplicate A transactions in blocks 1 and 3 so, I quarantine the 2nd transaction of block 3.
([b3, t2] -> [b1, t1])

But what if A spends C's outputs? Stage 2's block chaining then fails, producing an invalid overall ordering?
Huh Well then you didn't sort them right, not my fault. Roll Eyes

You ask excellent questions though, I love your face.  Cheesy

Assuming you can prune transactions and still end up with a valid sorting order - how do you address the increasing in forking resulting from the lower difficulty of stage 2 compared to bitcoin?
317  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: The Superblockchain and Multi-Level Mining on: July 24, 2017, 06:16:02 AM
It's not possible to avoid duplicates in your example but any two of the three blocks will include all three transactions so I can exclude one of the three blocks and quarantine the second instance of any duplicate transaction in a table entry that points back to the first instance of that transaction.

For instance, if I exclude block 2, I get duplicate A transactions in blocks 1 and 3 so, I quarantine the 2nd transaction of block 3.
([b3, t2] -> [b1, t1])

But what if A spends C's outputs? Stage 2's block chaining then fails, producing an invalid overall ordering?
318  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: The Superblockchain and Multi-Level Mining on: July 23, 2017, 08:32:11 PM
Not exclude, quarantine. Starting with the 2nd level, all but one instance of every transaction in a superblock will have to be quarantined so that only one instance can be spent.

Is there not the pathological case where this is physically impossible?

level 1 blocks, containing transactions A,B,C:
[A, B]
[B, C]
[C, A]

Chose the subset which doesn't duplicate transactions.
319  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: The Superblockchain and Multi-Level Mining on: July 23, 2017, 06:17:19 PM
How do you deal with individual transactions getting included in multiple separate blocks in the 1st stage of mining?

In the proceeding levels, how do you deal with the inevitable increase in forking due to the lower difficulty?
Part of each stage of mining is the exclusion of elements that contain the same transaction data.

Detail is everything. Exclusion how?
320  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: The Superblockchain and Multi-Level Mining on: July 23, 2017, 05:42:19 PM
How do you deal with individual transactions getting included in multiple separate blocks in the 1st stage of mining?

In the proceeding levels, how do you deal with the inevitable increase in forking due to the lower difficulty?
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 [16] 17 18 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!