The evidence is all over the place, but your shill blinders won't let you see it.

Wow. I just don't even know where to start. Seriously take a look at the evidence presented throughout these forums that BitSyncom has: 1) sold our pre-ordered chips to someone else, 2) been mining with customers' equipment, and 3) is using Chinese mafia + customs hangups as an excuse to screw customers here out of *millions* of dollars. I don't have time to point out all the threads and evidence, but I suggest you read it, analyze it, and then read BitSyncom's lame excuses. If, after all that, you believe BitSyncom's side of the story, then you are a much bigger fool than I.

As a customer with a substantial order, I think steamboat's approach is the best one.

This situation sucks, for sure, but we don't yet know how this is going to play out. Yifu has definitely screwed us with the delay (and lack of details/communication), but he has said some chips will start shipping next week. While I don't trust Yifu and seriously question his ethics, based on Avalon's history they do eventually deliver product. If the chips can go out relatively soon, then I think the ROI might still be there. Even if the ROI isn't there, I would rather get chips late and recoup some of the money, then not get the chips at all. Keep in mind I don't expect steamboat to be able to refund assembly costs (he is in a much worse situation than us), so a chip refund only gets me half my BTC back.

As to alternatives, I just don't see much viable at this point. Trying to go after Yifu or Avalon legally or criminally might sound great (I'd love to see him held accountable), but I think we need to focus on getting the chips and assembly done as fast as possible. I think we'll know much more over the next couple of weeks as we see how quickly Yifu is sending out chips. This is going to require patience and we need to weigh the options unemotionally, and focus on getting the best outcome.

Thanks for the update SB, and for doing what you can to make the production as fast as possible once the chips land at your door.

He has demo chips.

Hi Dave,

That is quite impressive -- congrats to the team.

Would it be possible to post a photo of test rig, and a few photos of the hosting facility finish-out progress? I realize the latter isn't done, but would still love to see the progress. Thanks.

Sounds perfectly reasonable steamboat. Thanks for the clarification.

I agree, we need to be patient and wait for clarification on the policy. One thing concerning me is that he was active on the forum just a couple of hours ago, so I would have expected a one line reply clarifying the policy after seeing the shit storm of posts here. Steamboat has been the model of thoroughness and fairness to date, so I do expect this all to be worked out satisfactorily.

It isn't clear what steamboat's policy is here yet (not reserving parts for chip orders only, or not reserving parts for chip orders that have also already ordered assembly), but here is a quick thought experiment that shows the latter could shaft all of SB's batch chip purchasers that have already ordered assembly:

1) chip group buy from XYZ ordered their chips before SB's batch 1 (they receive them in a couple of days).
2) chip group buy XYZ customers realize there is a part shortage, but SB is offering an assembly service based on whoever's chips arrive first.
3) chip group buy XYZ customers send their chips to SB (and pays for assembly) before SB receives his batch 1 chips.
4) SB assembles 3000 units for XYZ customers before his batch 1 chips arrive, which occurs the day after assembly of XYZ customer chips is done.
5) all of SB's chip group buy customers (batch 1 to 6) now have to wait for considerable delays (his words) while parts are sourced again.

While an extreme example, it obviously does show the problem with such a policy if it were the case. I hope SB clarifies his policy soon.

Note I'm not expecting you to reserve parts for chip customers, but I am indeed expecting you to reserve parts for chip customers (regardless of batch) that have purchased (and prepaid) assembly services through you. Please confirm this is the case.

I'll just add my +1 for this entire discussion: I'm in chip batch 5 and was one of the first to pay for complete assembly+testing for all my chips on the assumption that the money would go to securing the parts for my order, not someone else's order. If my chips come in I am expecting the parts to be there and not to have been sold to someone that paid for their assembly later (while I get stuck waiting for a parts shortage to clear up, which can take a very signficant amount of time). Please confirm this is the case steamboat. Thanks.

Well, I guess that helps explains terrahash's reluctance to release the proof of "early-May" purchases.

He should, of course, but do realize we are talking about Avalon here. So don't hold your breath for an answer. On a positive note it does sound like some chips have been received now (in China), so I do think they are finally starting to go out the door.

I'm interested in how they space out the shipments. That is, will they ship them all out at once or delay shipments based on order time.

3U case interest +1 here.

I'm sure this will be posted all over the place on BCT, but latest info from Avalon (via their email newsletter):


BKK -- you are doing a great job. The community really appreciates your hard work and talents.

Hi Steamboat,

From your 6/9 update:


Have you logged into your Avalon account lately? I'm curious if additional sample chips have been sent yet (in particular for batch 5). Thanks.

It looks like steamboat's heat sink is working nicely:


Note though that BKK still has the clock rate about 1/2 of what it will be (pending a capacitor that needs to be changed), so the chips will most likely end up being hotter than "barely warm." But still -- great news.

Therein lies the fundamental difference between our perspectives I guess. I'd add to that list an entire host of other factors:

• Final board production works (heat sink/cooling design, correct components used, etc.)
• Has the processes in place to get the assembly completed and tested (much more complicated then one might think). This one is key. You seem to think that all TH has to do is get some files from BKK to an assembler and then magically boards will be spit out the other end. It just isn't that simple.
• Has the chips to populate the boards (I've seem some evidence that TH has ordered 10K chips, but don't see evidence for 20K chips they claim to have ordered yet -- providing a link to the block-chain transaction for the orders honestly isn't that difficult).
• Not a scam (and for the record, I don't think TH is a scam at this point but I think we'll know soon enough)

I am not spreading FUD. I'm countering oaxaca's post where he seemed to show that SB and TH are similar (except at price). I don't think they are, so I'm pointing out the differences between the two.

TH has publicly stated on the klondike developer thread that he would contribute in a timely manner any relevant/useful development information back to BKK. He has not done so as publicly stated by BKK. IMO, that means he either doesn't have any new information (hasn't made substantial progress on the development) OR he is withholding information (in which case he is breaking his contract with BKK). Neither one are good signs, IMO.


In this case I guess importance is relative to the observer. I think taken together the items above (and others I didn't post) determine the likelihood that the TH or SB will ship products in a timely manner which greatly effects ROI. If you read the SB and TH threads you'll see just how differently they are running things. You can think that won't effect when they'll ship, but I think it shows a huge difference in professionalism and competence which will most definitely impact when/if they ship.