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February 08, 2023, 07:19:40 AM *
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1  Local / Pilipinas / Re: Bitcoin Island Retreat - Sasama ba kayo? on: February 07, 2023, 04:52:47 PM
Naglunsod ang Pouch.ph ng retreat/convention para sa mga crypto user sa south east asia. Ang event na ito ay gaganapin sa March 27-29 2023 sa Boracay. 150 participants lang ang slot na available kaya baka magkaubusan ng spot sa dami ng crypto user na nagbabakasyon sa Boracay ngayong summer. 100$ ang registration ngayon at maari itong tumaas sa January 15.

Pwede nyo icheck ang kumpletong detalye dito: https://pouch.ph/retreat2023

This actually seems a great idea to increase awareness sa cryptocurrency dito sa bansa! Yun nga lang, may presyo and registration fee ito kaya medyo mahal din pero ano yung exclusive fee ng $100? Purely for registration lang ba ito? May kasama na din bang pagkain dito? Hopefully, magkaroon ng parang open forum at discussion where outsiders are also open for free given na madami rin talagang curious dito sa cryptocurrency sa bansa.

Hopefully magkaroon pa ng madaming events katulad nito and hindi lang mismo sa Boracay gaganapin. This is a good start to increase its overall awareness and hopefully magkaroon pa ng mga katulad na events na ganito in the future.

Exciting and intrresting ang ganitong mga event lalo na kung maraming magagaling na speakers ang pupunta at marami tayong matututunan. Yun nga lang, sa mga wais na pinoy, mas pipiliin talaga nating isave or iinvest na lang ang expenses at registration fee dahil may kamahalan nga naman. Alam naman natin na may kamahalan din ang accomodation at iba oang bilihin sa Boracay so mahaba habang ipunan dapat bago ang event. Kung March na ito, medyo masakit sa bulsa. Sana all na lang talaga makakaattend. Sana naman ay magshare ng experience yung mga makakapunta sa event para kung may paevent next time ay alam natin kung worth it bang sumama.
2  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Rejecting odd provider's limit on: February 07, 2023, 04:05:05 PM
The best way is to monitor gaming providers, because they're a different section but exist in all casinos, and that makes it look like all Casinos communicate with each other to detect players. I think if a gaming provider flags a player for being underage or fraudulent disputes they can easily track that person on other casinos using their detective systems. And this time the player may be unlucky and the account will get restricted after they've won some money. They could be a way other than changing IP, proxies, or even Kyc how these people determine a suspicious player. So, the way out is to change games and try focusing on games that has different providers. That way the user can be difficult to trace.

Keep in mind that there's another reason for someone being limited, and it's his/her gambling addiction. In some jurisdictions gambling providers are obliged to limit someone's stakes just because they are too big, or there are too many of them to consider them affordable for the gambler. So, providers put a limit on the stakes of such person, and then this person goes around forums saying he was limited because he was so good at betting and that casinos fear him.

I personally think that this is the main reason why someone is limited, but I have no proof of that, so, let's just keep in mind that there are such cases.

Indeed it's among the right reasons why a person can be traced till forever never to gamble anywhere again, gambling addiction, if a person is restricted for such reasons they may not be enabled to play anywhere, but how exactly it's been achieved is like gambling we can't be sure of it, there are more than enough cases why a person gets limited, yet the game providers play an effective role in tackling these limitation disputes.

We can't be sure of it. Absolutely. Besides, gamblers always can find ways to circumvent  these restrictions, but the harder to do it, the better for them gambling addicts. If they are restricted to the most reliable gambling platforms, they can go to less reliable ones, but they know the risks, so, some of them stop gambling for that reason.

Overall, it's a good thing that providers are required to limit people who are sick and need professional help. It saves many lives, I'm sure.

If they would limit them, they should also let them know the reason why the are being restricted. The providers must provide an acceptable reason so gamblers would know their mistakes. I agree that gambling addicts will always find ways to gamble. If they are being traced and restricted, they will try even the riskiest casinos to fulfill their urge to gamble. However, it will still be a big help for them to be restricted so they will be aware and would have enough time to realize that they need to seek professional help already.
3  Local / Pilipinas / Re: ang LELE GOLD ay official ng shutdown on: February 05, 2023, 08:16:31 PM
Sa totoo lang walang pangil pa ang batas lalo na sa mga ganyang klase ng schemes, napapansin nyo ba na nawawala nalang sila na wala namang nangyare, although may sinasabi na mapaparusahan pero nakikita natin parang chill lang sila, ung mga ngpromote, kasi for sure kumunsulta na sila
sa mga lawyers at possible, lusot sila jaan kasi kung hindi nagtatago na sila ng tuluyan, kasi sabi malaki daw ang penalty, panahon na siguro para
magkaroon talaga ng totoong pangil ang batas para sa ganyan.
Pansin na yan dati pa at yan lang talaga ang nakakalungkot. Yung pera na nakulimbat ng mga scammer na ito, pinambabayad lang din nila yan sa mga nakaupo kung mahuli man sila pero kung hindi, malaya sila kung saan man sila pumunta. Dapat talaga mas paigihin pa yung batas at may combination yan at yun ay yung financial education na magsisimula palang sa elementarya hanggang sa paglaki ng mga bata. Ewan ko lang kung bakit hindi tinuturo yan, nakasanayan na kasi natin yung ganyang pamumuhay na tinuro sa atin.

Sa totoo lang hindi ko alam kung ano ginagawa ng SEC at iba pang authority para labanan ang ganitong mga scams.  Iniisip ko nga minsan na sayang lang pinapasuweldo sa kanila ng taong bayan.  Hindi nila ginagampanan ng matino ang trabaho nila, ni hindi nga sila nakakahuli ng mga scam company kung walang magrereport sa kanila.  At ang siste pa, alam na nila na scam ang ginagawa ng company, pero di nila maipashutdown kung hindi maglalabas lang sila ng advisory at wala nang ibang gagawin.  Aakto lang sila kapag marami ng taong naloko saka magmamagaling.

Nakakapikon lang talaga kasi pwede naman nila aksyunan ng mas maaga para maprevent yung mas madami pang mabibiktima pero
lagging asa huli yung pagmamagaling para may ginawa kuno.

Kung tutuusin kapag naman may nasampulan yan na scammer or supporter ng scammer malamang sa malamang matatakot naman
kahit papano at makakabawas din.

Pero sa ngayon kasi wala pa talaga or kung meron man hindi pa ganun kalawak kaya hindi pa rin nasisindak yung mga supporters
at mismong scammers.

Nakakalungkot isipin na laging maraming pinoy ang nahuhulog sa gabmnitong trap sa kadahilanang madali silang masilaw sa easy money kahit pa marami na ang experts na nagwawarning sa kanila. Mas pakikinggan pa rin nila ang streamers at ilang influencers na ang main goal ay kumita lang din pero wala talagang sapat na knowledge sa ginagawa. Marami ng ganitong klaseng game ang lumabas na nakabiktima ng maraming pinoy. Laging nattrap yung mga late investors pero sa kasamaang palad, hindi talaga ginagawan ng batas ng solusyon or justice manlang ang ganitong scamming sa bansa. Kaya sigurado akong uulit at uulit na naman ito pero sana naman ay magsilbi na itong lesson sa mga pinoy. Masyado kasi tayong nagpapahuli sa trap ng mga scammers agad.
4  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: [Boxing] Figueroa vs Magsayo WBC Interim Featherweight Title (March 4) on: February 05, 2023, 12:44:43 PM
Magsayo is a KO artist too and take note that most of his KO win are done in the Featherweight.

We have to consider that the Featherweight division is Magsayo's comfortable weight zone. Figueroa, on the other hand, is quite new here. I know that about 4 lbs difference from 122 to 126 isn't that gap but the fact that some additional training is needed in order to keep up in shape to 126, the adjustment is needed in Figueroa's case wherein on the other hand, Magsayo doesn't need any adjustment but rather just continue to improve his performance.

Magsayo wants to get back again at the list of title holders that's why he will surely be aggressive to win.
Yeah I know, but Magsayo last few winnings doesn't always win via KO, although both fighters ever fight with Julio Ceja, when Ceja fight with Figueroa the fight end in draw but when Ceja fight with Magsayo, Magsayo win via KO. But Julio Ceja haven't fight for 2 years before he met Magsayo, not sure if it's a valid reason because Ceja wss really bad in that's match, he was fall in the first round.

But I still think Figueroa has more advantage, he was fight many good boxers in super bantamweight.

I would like to emphasize the fight of Magsayo against Ceja, it was really Ceja who is winning the fight, it's just that Magsayo found a good counter shot that hurt Ceja and eventually knock him down. If Ceja was careful that time, he might end up winning via upset, so Magsayo really not that good, he needs to improve his stamina and his boxing skills to get par with the champs.

Magsayo has been strategic during his fight with Ceja though it was obvious that Ceja has a huge chance to knock him down before. Magsayo knows how to counter his opponent though he always struggles despite his aggressiveness. He should learn how to counter the possible movements of Figueroa and try to learn his weaknesses so he could apply an effective strategy again.
5  Economy / Economics / Re: Keeping money and keeping bitcoins? are they similar? on: February 04, 2023, 04:38:58 PM
The massive awareness to keep bitcoins for as long as possible promotes people to develop the attitude of saving, just like saving money. Do you agree with this that people who are very good at saving money become very good at keeping bitcoins when they finally start doing cryptocurrency? Or do you feel that there is no similarity between keeping bitcoins and keeping money?

They are similar in the sense that both require certain level of financial discipline and long term planning. However, they are also different as saving money in traditional banks is easier because of its  familiarity and stability of the financial system, whereas Bitcoin is highly volatile, decentralized but has seen unparalleled returns over the past decade, surpassing other assets.

The attitude of self-discipline to save enough both money and bitcoin is actually a good character. Both can be profitable but in different ways. We can't expect good returns when saving in banks and can't make a good profit if we can't deal with Bitcoin's volatility. The attitude of saving can work successfully if we'll also accompany it with enough knowledge and understanding about how both things work.
6  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: How to Deal with Volatility? on: February 04, 2023, 04:10:57 PM
Does the volatility really be the reason why people had lose? Well, I don't think so. People had lost their investments because of being too emotional, having no trust in their investments, and most of all, their negative mindset.

There is no other way to deal with the volatility but to embrace this. In fact, we don't need to be afraid of the unpredictable trend but rather make use of this to earn more. Because the more we understand the importance of volatility, the more we like it.

Cryptocurrency wouldn't be profitable if it isn't volatile. Losing could happen if we don't know how to take advantage of every market situation. The right time to buy and sell will be the best way to make a profit. Volatility is the unique characteristic of cryptocurrency that is an open opportunity for everyone to make money. Losing is normal but losing repeatedly simply means that we don't have enough knowledge about how the market works yet.
7  Economy / Economics / Re: Is renting an inevitable waste of money? on: February 04, 2023, 03:08:15 PM
Not all debt is waste of money, if we can manage debt for business capital or increase capital then this is good, unfortunately most people nowadays only think instantly, they make debt a thing that can fulfill their pleasure, then problems occur, for example it is difficult pay then they can only regret.

Debt could be helpful if we know how yo handle and spend it wisely so that we can make a profit from it but if we'll use it to fulfill our wants over our needs, we will definitely be wasting it. Renting is fine if that's what we can afford but it will be better if we are also saving to buy our own house because renting forever is really a burden. Saving as for me is the key.
8  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Are there gambling games/sports that suits a particular gender the more? on: February 04, 2023, 02:20:58 PM
Do women even like to gamble? Absolutely! Just like men, women can be drawn to the excitement of competition, the thrill of potentially winning big, or just looking for some fun. Of course, societal norms and cultural beliefs can play a role, but at the end of the day, it all comes down to personal preference. So, don't sell the ladies short - they know how to have a good time, and gambling is no exception.


I certainly agree. I know a lot of women who are better at gambling than ordinary gambling men. They bet and see gambling as entertainment regardless of the type of sport or game. Their focus is to win and enjoy and they even know better specific strategies to apply so we shouldn't underestimate women. They might know better than men when it comes to gambling since they are more strategic.
9  Economy / Economics / Re: When your passive income equals or slightly above your salary, what would you do on: February 03, 2023, 06:17:57 PM
~
I would kinda disagree with others that are just saying to quit your job. Your job might not be your passion, but you could somehow like it at some point.
If it does not stop you from doing your passions or hobbies, I would keep the job and keep at it on your passive interests.

You could somehow be able to net more profit for your own wants and live a comfortable or even luxurious life, but again considering that it does not strain your usual stuff daily that you love.

Quitting a job for a passive extra income will not be good advice. No matter how nice our side job is, if it is not stable, then we shouldn't let go of our job. Anything can happen and we all know that finding a job nowadays so if we can manage to do two things at the same time then we should do it. We can still make a passive income while doing our full-time job. That's already a good opportunity for us to double our earnings.
10  Economy / Economics / Re: Social media, now looking more for business than for socializing. on: February 03, 2023, 05:55:15 PM
Social media nowadays makes lot of opportunities for everyone. Marketing strategies have been easier because of different social media platforms. It's been also a good way for a lot of influencers to make money. Others have found their job on it. People have focused on earning than socializing so their time on social media platforms would be worthier. Money is all over the internet if we only know how to grab the opportunities that they offer.
11  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: really no kyc crypto casino on: February 03, 2023, 05:31:27 PM
Well im planing to deposit decent amount of eth and make sports bets, but i really prefer no kyc casino/sports bet.
Most of casinos that i tried with clearly wriitwn NO KYC still asks for docs even for 0.0002btc withdrawal.
Does anyone know normal no kyc casino without bs?
so far i tried vave.com , they are good,  but who knows what will happen if you withdraw more than 1k, maybe annoying kyc procedures will begin trough email.
Anyone tried cloudbet? or bitcoin.com games?
There a re a very few casinos that do not initially require KYC, and some of them hide under the cloak of no KYC but on the long run after registration done and you probably won a good bulk just to make withdrawal that's when they will request for a means of KYC ID.
 For i prefer casinos that uses KYC as I feel my account is to an extent safe from easy intrusion. So I wonder why some other person's shy from using KYC casinos.
Maybe they don't feel comfortable sending their personal documents to the casino because they think they are just gambling. Moreover, many people go to online crypto casinos that can protect their identity without doing KYC. But it seems it no longer works because casinos can ask them to do KYC on their members. Maybe they saw the news about hacking or identity selling from the internet which made them reluctant to do KYC. But some people do KYC, especially if it is a trusted and reputable casino because, according to them, it is okay to send their documents to the casino.

If you are with a trusted casino, I don't think there's still a reason for you to fear. So far, I didn't hear any news about a breach of information in top casinos. They just require KYC for our own good and if you'll only know the importance of KYC, you will definitely comply with it. There are only a few casinos that don't ask for KYC but you should also double-check their reputation.
12  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: What is your earliest Gambling Story? on: February 03, 2023, 05:16:33 PM
I can say that I was a late bloomer in gambling. One time, my co workers are tol busy in one corner of our office. They are all doing online gambling and they cheer each other. Due to my curiosity, I asked them where to download the game and how to play it because I was too bored since they were all busy during our break time. I have explored the site and tried betting on it. I have won a few times but then lost everything in the long run. That's when I have learned that gambling has a big risk and it's not for everyone.
13  Economy / Gambling / Re: slots.video - reinventing jupiter rising` on: February 03, 2023, 04:54:49 PM
Well, he did the same thing before by creating a topic combining for two sites that he apparently controlled such as jupiterrising.xyz and slots.video the first one has already ceased to exist, but the second one is for sale and both topics are still active, I hope the OP will appear and explain what happened, although I am not sure that he is serious about this.

I don't think he will appear here again have you all seen his edited post in one of his announcement


edit:
So I apologize if I upset anyone with my payout rules and such. I'm not doing it to be a cheap skate, I'm just trying to get by. I've spent months and so many hours of my life putting this all together. It really was a lot of work. I wish I did have the money to be able to pay you all out as soon as you request it. I really do...


lack of money is the cause of why he is taking down his two sites, this is a reminder to all gamblers to check if the casino that they are going to play is really serious in launching and establishing their casino, not one who is just experimenting to what it's like to run a casino.
It's ok to support new casinos but be sure to check if they have the means to sustain their casino.

This is self explanatory though but OP should have known that his funds are not enough to start a casino instead of coming to look for investors to invest in his casino. Who does he think would take such risk when he is op is not known. He made a mistake requesting for funds from the platform which he has no proper details of himself. Members here have had series of unfortunate experience as regards investment so therefore would find it difficult investing in the casino which he has in mind developing for gamblers.
OP did well by apologizing to the forum and that is the best way to end the conversation and I think he has gone and gone for good. Maybe he would come back after reinforcement but I believe with another name only God knows.

I thinm Op wasn't too prepared financially. I'm sure that it wasn't easy on his end because he also lost all through the launching process. It's a good thing that he apologized and has shown up in the forum. He still has a chance to recover and relaunch in the future. This usually happens if the owner doesn't have enough funds to keep the business running.
14  Economy / Economics / Re: Is taking a loan/debt addicted ? on: February 02, 2023, 03:26:17 PM
I don't think taking a loan is a bad idea, but when you are taking a loan, make sure it is used for something meaningful. Also if you are taking loan, make sure you borrow the amount you can afford to pay back at the given time, don't loan any amount which you can't pay back, so you won't endup taking loan from other places just to payback for the loan you borrowed and you haven't paid back. If you keep on taking loan, anywhere you borrow money from will definitely add their own interest.

Borrowing and loaning money will be a lifesaver and a big help to those who want to start up a business without enough capital but it should be handled and managed well. Loaning must also be accompanied by a proper lifestyle where we control spending too much on unnecessary things so we can save and prioritize paying our debt first. If we are responsible loaners, then borrowing will never be a problem that we could face in the future.
15  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Crypto Market on the Rise, But Proceed with Caution! on: February 02, 2023, 02:33:39 PM
It's true that despite the negative reputation that crypto assets have, they have been performing well in the beginning of 2023. Bitcoin, as an indicator of the overall crypto market, has risen 27% since the start of the year, while the S&P 500 has only risen 2.6% and gold has risen 5.4%. However, it's important to remember that the crypto market is still in a bear market and the bottom has not been reached yet. The editor of Daily, Teeka Tiwari, is a long-term bull on crypto but he advises caution and patience in the current market. He believes that there are several negative factors that need to be worked through before the long-term rally can restart.
It's important to be aware of these negative stories and to not let the bear market trap you.
It's also worth noting that the crypto market is still relatively small, so it's not necessary to make large investments to see significant returns as the market improves. It's recommended to be cautious and to focus on incredible buying opportunities when they arise. Despite the current market conditions, the future of crypto remains promising, with institutions like Fidelity launching new bitcoin products and more favorable regulations in countries like Brazil. Over the long-term, the outlook for crypto is positive.
More info at cryptocartel.co

Well said mate. I personally think it's time to monitor the market closely and wait for opportunities to buy/sell the coins.
Looking at the charts I think we will see a correction in the next few days followed by a good spike in the prices.
If that happens then I guess it will be a good time to place our buy orders when the market recovers from the correction.

It's a good thing to see how the market moves nowadays but we should still not be too confident about it because there is still a huge possibility that it would switch in a different direction in the coming days. We might be in the recovery phase but we should not disregard the fact that we might only get trapped if we will buy or sell without considering ththeossibility of a huge dump again. We must be wise in every move that we take in these critical market situations and just be observant.
16  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: [Boxing] Tank Davis vs. Ryan Garcia betting and discussion (May, 2023) on: February 02, 2023, 01:57:52 PM
a update:

Gervonta ĎTankí Davis vs. Ryan Garcia: 3 possible sites in Las Vegas, Nevada for April 15th

Quote
By Craig Daly: The Gervonta Davis vs. Ryan Garcia mega-fight is being targeted at one of the following venues on April 15th on Showtime PPV in Las Vegas, Nevada: Allegiant Stadium, T-Mobile Arena, or MGM Grand. Boxing Scene is reporting the news of the Tank vs. Ryan fight heading to Las Vegas, which makes sense because thatís where most of the mega-fights in the U.S. take place nowadays. Ideally, the Davis-Garcia fight will be staged at the Allegiant Stadium in Las Vegas because itís the largest venue by far of the three, allowing more boxing fans to attend and for a lower price cost of the ticket than if the contest takes place at the other two.



Source: https://www.boxingnews24.com/2023/02/gervonta-tank-davis-vs-ryan-garcia-3-possible-sites-in-las-vegas-nevada-for-april-15th/

This is already being discussed here but I did not think that ticket prices would be lower if it was in the Allegiant Stadium  which could mean it is more accessible to fans to that could boost sales. T mobile and the MGM have always been expensive venues to attend and Vegas is not the cheapest place to find hotels or travel to. If they can reduce the ticket prices that might allow more people to afford but still benefit the promoters enough so that they go for Allegiant Stadium .
The ticket is expensive and they also have big-time sponsors so they will surely make money from it. It will not be affordable for ordinary people so we got no choice but just to watch it through their chosen platforms. They consider it as a big match of the first quarter so no wonder why the organizers have chosen an expensive venue. Garcia still wants to prove a lot so if he'll beat Davis, so he must be well prepared for this because for sure, Davis would also grab this chance to maintain his good record.
17  Economy / Gambling / Re: PVP Games Lounge launching soon on: February 02, 2023, 01:34:09 PM
I just remember that the only PvP gambling that I know that can be played in the game of blackjack, and poker, we just don't know here what about the OP who says that it is unique and there is nothing like it.

Actually almost all kind of gambling games can be implemented to PVP version. Even slot games can be a pvp game and it was implemented by rollbit with the slot battle. It will be depending on the owner of the project to decide what kind of pvp game they are going to create. Anyway, I think the OP of this thread has gone already and I'm starting to think that he is not really ready with his own project but he was over confident to announce it earlier even before his project is ready to go.
Not really, a new update is coming with our first game beta version and all the links coming likely next week

It seems like the PVP era will be back on track again since lots of PVP games and launching nowadays. Maybe because the market is also trying to recover from the bearish season so it will be a good time to launch interesting games. I just hope that previous PVP projects that failed to recover during the bear market will also try to relaunch again.
18  Economy / Gambling / Re: I accidentally deposited to self-excluded stake.com account. on: February 02, 2023, 01:14:34 PM
My account was self excluded for a year, 48 weeks left. Support told me that I have to wait for 48 weeks to be able to withdraw my funds. I guess I will wait Smiley
Well, that's still good news. Think of it like an investment now. In 48 weeks if ever Ethereum rises then you win without gambling.  Cheesy
But did they say it will still be in Ethereum or will it be in USD when you access your account again? I mean, there's a possibility what I said would happen and I don't know if that's a loss to the gambling site or not.
Ain't something like this happened with locked accounts in exchanges like Binance or others? They automatically convert it to USD so that the value won't change.
See you again in 48 weeks and I wish you will update us about what will happen to the deposited amount.

At least they have responded and have considered your concern. It's a good thing that you will still be able to withdraw your funds. It might just take a lot of time but I guess it will be better if you will just try to forget your funds for a while. The Stake support is responsive to their customer's concerns and that is a good thing. Still good news for you, Op.
19  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Scammers are good at using the most hyped utility on: February 01, 2023, 05:47:33 PM
Scammers know how to take advantage of what's on trend because they can easily find targets for coins that are making noise. They will hype it and take advantage of it that's why being skeptical is necessary so we will not fall for their trap easily. There are other potential coins to focus on and coins that are making noise don't mean that they have a good potential so we must do continuous research so we will not be fooled.
20  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: how the name of Bitcoin is spreading globally! on: February 01, 2023, 05:20:30 PM
That is the brand of the chickpeas used by the businessman behind it. Probably he discovered bitcoin online and created his own brand using its name and logo. I found another similar product, which must belong to the same business company:


https://saraswatitraders.com/brands

Probably it's a marketing strategy to captivate bitcoin enthusiasts to becomes their customers, due to the sympathy they have for bitcoin's aesthetics.

Oh ok, so it make sense now, he is using it as a marketing strategy obvious for his products across. And if some crypto enthusiast get a hold of it, for sure he might buy the product thinking that he is supporting bitcoin or bitcoin gold, so good strategy.

On the other hand, it's kinda misleading as well, especially for newbies who see the bitcoin gold logo and investigate and then began investing thinking that what they are putting their money into is the true bitcoin.

Newbies who don't do research before releasing their funds will surely fall for this. It's misleading and might only confuse investors. They are actually not promoting cryptocurrency but rather promoting their product in a creative marketing strategy. It will be attractive to crypto users but will not be too interesting to those who are aware of this selling style. It's just a labeled sack after all.
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