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1  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: December 28, 2022, 01:33:08 PM
Reply to suchmoon

Shelling of Mariupol

[...] I doubt I ever claimed they only publish absolute truth and nothing but the truth, but your rebuttals are quite pathetic. Like trying to claim that a couple thousand Ukrainians surrounded in Mariupol for a month managed to bomb themselves while defending against 20 BTGs of Russian forces. Makes no sense. Or that some social media comment is proof of something. Photo/video/witness evidence beats armchair expert opinions IMO.
First of all, there were more than "a couple thousand" Ukrainian soldiers in Mariupol, since at least 2,500 of them surrendered to the Russian army.
Further, it makes sense for you when the Russian authorities bomb their gas pipelines in the waters controlled by NATO countries, but when the residents of Mariupol tell you that the Armed Forces of Ukraine and soldiers from Azov fired at their houses and held them captive, for some reason you refuse to believe these testimonies.
In December 2022, journalist Panchenko traveled from Kyiv to Mariupol and asked local residents who they thought had bombed Mariupol. Since this video is fresh, I will elaborate on their comments, as they are very important.

Source (26-30 minutes video in Russian)
Original in Russian in small print
- Было очень страшно. Естественно, взрывы, выстрелы.
- Кого вините в этом?
- Наверное, Украину, а кого ещё.
- Почему Украину?
- Потому что они бомбили по своим и знали, что будет. Никто не предупредил никого.
- Что вы тогда чувствовали?
- Что мы не защищены, в первую очередь. Самое страшное было, что по нам стреляли украинцы: по домам, где находились дети в подвалах, многоэтажных домах. Просто сидели в подвалах - там рожавшие были в этот момент. "Твари, мрази, закрой рот" - вот такое было. Кума моей мамы принимала роды у женщины. Они кричали: "Мразь, заткнись!" Они не выпускали деток. На улице здесь было, совсем рядом.
- Вы уверены, что это была Украина?
- Ну, да. По форме была Украина. Они же изначально занимали оборону.
- Под горящим домом сидели люди в подвале.
- А бомбил кто?
- Украина.
- Вам хочется это слово. Украина, Украина. Всё сделала Украина, ребята!
- Нет, но я просто хочу понять. Я в шоке.
- Моя кума лично видела и там были люди, которые в бомбоубежище прятались, что это всё сделала Украина. Они стреляли, они в квартиры ломились. Люди становились вот так вот (показывает), чтобы не заходили в их квартиры. Но было бесполезно. Они говорили: "Не отойдёшь - убью".
- Ужасные вещи вы рассказываете. А эвакуироваться можно было?
- Можно было, но это опасно было очень. Надо было бежать, Бог знает куда. Люди пешком шли, слёзно останавливали автомобили.
- Сейчас Украина думает, что она вернёт Донбасс. Что вы об этом думаете?
- Мы очень переживаем. Мы не хотим этого. Прятаться нам некуда больше.
- Если бы можно было обратиться к властям Украины и России, чтобы вы сказали?
- Защитите нас, пожалуйста. Не отдавайте нас больше Украине. До свидания.
English translation. Abbreviations: Resident (R), Journalist (J)
R: It was very scary. Naturally, explosions, shots.
J: Who do you blame for this?
R: Probably Ukraine, and who else.
J: Why Ukraine?
R: Because they bombed on their own and knew what would happen. Nobody warned anyone.
J: What did you feel then?
R: That we're not protected in the first place. The worst thing was that Ukrainians were shooting at us:
at houses where there were children in basements, multi-storey buildings. They just sat in the basements -
those who gave birth were there at that moment. "Creature, scum, shut your mouth" - that's what it was.
My mother's godmother assisted a woman in childbirth. They shouted: "Scum, shut up!"
They didn't let the kids out. On the street, it was very close.
J: Are you sure it was Ukraine?
R: Well, yes. The uniform was Ukrainian. They were originally on the defensive.
People were sitting in the basement under the burning house.
J: Who bombed?
R: Ukraine. You want that word! Ukraine, Ukraine. Ukraine did everything, guys!
J: No, but I just want to understand. I'm shocked.
R: My godfather personally saw and there were people who were hiding in a bomb shelter that Ukraine did all this.
They shot, they broke into apartments. People stood like this (shows) so as not to enter their apartments.
But it was useless. They said: "If you don't leave, I'll kill you."
J: Terrible things you say. Was it possible to evacuate?
R: It was possible, but it was very dangerous. I had to run, God knows where. People walked on foot, tearfully stopped cars.
J: Now in Ukraine they think to return Donbass. What do you think of it?
R: We are very worried. We don't want this. We have nowhere else to hide.
J: If you could turn to the authorities of Ukraine and Russia, what would you say?
R: Protect us, please. Don't give us back to Ukraine. Goodbye.

In the same video, at 29 minutes, an elderly couple in Mariupol said that they were kicked out of their house by Ukrainian soldiers on March 20, threatening them: "Otherwise, you won't be here in 5 minutes". At 29 minutes 23 seconds, the woman called the "fascists" those Ukrainians who kicked her out of the house. Then, at 30 minutes, the man says that fighters from the Azov regiment were located across the house from them. According to the man, Azov mortarmen went to the cemetery and bombed peaceful houses in all directions, 360 degrees, in order to destroy the infrastructure in Mariupol. The journalist asked him what was the point for Ukraine to shoot down civilians. The man said that it was necessary to ask them, because there were no pro-Russian troops like the DPR.

Additional links about Mariupol

- The woman told Reuters that soldiers from Azov kept her in a bunker and did not let her out for evacuation. But her comment was censored.
- An article was published in a Greek newspaper, how Azov militants held Russian-speaking citizens of Mariupol as hostages.
- There is also a censored fragment from Spanish RTVE channel about Azov.
- Video with residents of Mariupol with harsh criticism of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, published on April 20 (in Russian) - see my post on April 20 for the English translation.
- German journalist spoke with a resident of Mariupol.

My explanations would have been shaky if I hadn't cited the references to various residents from Mariupol who were very critical of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and accused them of shelling. But you turn a blind eye to these data. If you don't believe all these people, then go to Mariupol (the hostilities there have long ended) and interview civilians yourself.


I said "[you] post Z-links and other Russian propaganda as facts." You responded by saying that I post Western propaganda as facts. That is whataboutism as defined above (counter-accusation). And even if your counter-accusation were true, it doesn't make any sense as a counter-argument.
You accuse me of replicating false data in favor of the Russian side, which I allegedly do not even question. In my opinion, I'm doing something else: I present events from the other side of the conflict, relying on various information sources. I didn't count by the number of links, but according to my feelings, regarding the military conflict in Ukraine, I still refer to European, American and Ukrainian sites more often in my posts, and I have to refer to Russian sources when some news is hushed up in the USA or Europe, for example, about missile shelling of Donetsk and Luhansk by Ukrainian armed groups or when western media do not show interviews with residents of Mariupol. Therefore, I have to dilute the local information field about the events in Ukraine with those messages that, due to censorship, are not published in the Western media.

The difference between reliable sources and additional information

I'd dig them up but it seems kinda pointless since you'd find someone on the internet saying that it's not true and that will be your rebuttal.
I see that you don't understand about that comment link. So again we have to go into a long analysis.
You referred to the YouTube channel of one of the Ukrainian media (which in their mass by May had already managed to greatly discredit themselves with various fakes: the resurrected dead from Snake Island, the Ghost of Kyiv, etc.), but you still wrote without any doubt the following: "... Glorious Russian military at its best - killing civilians. Or attacking parks and playgrounds".
That is, you accused the Russian army in a frenzied bombing of civilian infrastructure. I published a post about how things may not be as you think and that the strike was in response to a howitzer shot that was located there, referring to a comment by a user who didn't just write "this is fake", without any details. This user also provided the address where it happened, howitzer location, the details of the event. This user doesn't have a nickname, but rather a common Ukrainian surname. Her profile was created back in December 2021. The post didn't look like a comment from a troll and a deceiver. A troll would not bother with such details, for the reason that users of video platforms usually pay little attention to comments. But instead of having at least a little doubt about the accusatory information that you spread, you reproach me for unreliable sources. Naturally, a comment in social networks is also not a reliable source for me and is not equivalent to an article in the WSJ. But you don't seem to understand the difference between sources of information and additional information. As the Ukrainian media wrote, this is how it is for you. And it doesn't matter to you what people write in the comments there, because in your opinion their words are not significant at all.

The trigger

I kinda expected that "genocidal dictator" will trigger you, but holy crap, this is a lot of work to justify the old deluded wannabe tsar.
It's not about definitions. I don't like it when well-known Bitcointalk users write nonsense, talking that they understand the topic. That comment about the background of the conflict was intended not only for you, but also for other forum readers. In general, I think that users should try their best when publishing each post so that the forum doesn't look like a chat.

How the Russian army will be able to achieve its goals

But let's assume in some contrived alternate universe Putin's invasion was justifiable. How do you imagine he's going to achieve his objectives? So far he's managed to kill many more Donbas residents than were killed in the prior 8 years, and left a huge trail of destruction everywhere, from ruined Mariupol (or e.g. Severodonetsk - not even basic services/utilities functioning 6 months after occupation) to the capital of one of their new republics Kherson, which they're bombing non-stop killing supposedly new Russian citizens (TBH I don't really follow the annexation logic if there is one).
Only the General Staff of the Russian Federation knows in which direction the main blow of the Russian troops will be delivered, but I believe that it will be carried out in the next 1-1.5 months. Since this is facilitated by weather conditions convenient for a Russian attack and the monotonous destruction of the Ukrainian energy infrastructure. At the moment, the main hostilities are taking place near Bakhmut/Artemovsk. The Russian leadership doesn't even have to invent anything special now, the Zelensky regime itself brings Ukrainian soldiers to exterminate the male population, to my great regret, precisely because Ukrainian and Western propaganda feeds Ukrainians with illusions that they have some chance of winning this massacre. When the Ukrainians "run out", then the Alliance forces will bring more Poles, first in the form of mercenaries, and then regular troops will go.

Now remarks to minor comments:
- Where do you get information about Severodonetsk?
- The Russian authorities call part of the shelling of Kherson a Ukrainian provocation. Given the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine against Donetsk, Luhansk and in Mariupol (in the spring of 2022 - read above), this should at least be taken into account.
- Another question about "many more Donbas residents" - what sources do you refer to? According to the UN website, from February 24, 2022 to December 26, 2022, 6884 people died in total civilians throughout Ukraine. 3569 people died in Donetsk and Luhansk regions, in the territory controlled by the Ukrainian government, and 483 people died in the territory controlled by Russia. From April 2014 to December 31, 2021, over 14,000 people died in Donbas, of which 4,400 were Ukrainian Armed Forces, 3,404 were civilians, and 6,500 were members of armed groups.


Yes. And likely that's how it will end in any case, give or take the exact line the withdrawal will happen at.
Your optimism about the capabilities of the Ukrainian army is not at all clear what is caused. This can only be explained by the oversaturation of Western and Ukrainian propaganda. A third of the population of Ukraine has left for other countries. The rest of the population is now freezing without light and heat in cold houses. They do not have their own economy, the Ukrainian military forces are kept only at the expense of foreign handouts. In Ukraine, half of the energy infrastructure has already been destroyed, as well as most of the tanks, armored vehicles and aircraft. The only resource that the Armed Forces of Ukraine still has in large numbers is the people whom the Kyiv regime monotonously sends to be slaughtered under the artillery fire of the Russian army. Russia has not even begun to use the heavy means of destruction it has. This is not about nuclear weapons, but about heavy conventional weapons. If it comes to them, then there will be nothing left of Ukraine at all. Your logic is strange: you call Putin a "genocidal dictator", but do you think that he will simply withdraw troops without a good fight? I have already written before that the whole of Europe, together with Ukraine, will be destroyed in the fire rather than the Russian government will cede Crimea and Donbass. And judging by the rhetoric of the Russian authorities, they will not stop in Donbass.

New mentions of bayraktars in the media

Which media? I see them mentioned a lot, particularly in Russian channels.
You mean new information about TB2 attacks by Ukraine and their destruction? This is unlikely, because the last time the Russian Ministry of Defense mentioned them was a month and a half ago. If you have other information, please provide links.

The use of bayraktars in Ukraine

Seems that Bayraktars are now mostly on recon duty, what with Ukrainians having better weapons like HIMARS now.
People outside the General Staff of Ukraine who do not have complete information can only speculate. And your opinion that bayraktars are now used only for reconnaissance is unlikely, since there are much cheaper Ukrainian analogues for this. Why risk expensive drones and literally hammer nails with a microscope? The main characteristic of the Turkish drone is to strike at the enemy.
Also, the Bulgarian information resource drew attention to the disappearance of bayraktars.
I see you are satisfied that the AFU is now using HIMARS. Do you know exactly who the AFU uses them against?

The "Main Liar of the Night" award goes to...

Of course Russians could be lying, that sometimes happens too Smiley
Many American, European, and especially Ukrainian sources have shown themselves quite clearly in the publication of all kinds of fakes. For example, yesterday the main liar of the evening was the Ukrainian deputy Lesya Vasylenko, who posted a fake about an 8-year-old "Ukrainian boy" Marc, who allegedly survived the Russian shelling. Although in fact this photo was published back in 2013 in Spain.

The number of military aircraft in Ukraine

Number of airplanes Ukraine had and number of HIMARS launchers it received - both are well known.
I don't know about HIMARS, but the number of aircraft in the Armed Forces of Ukraine can vary greatly due to the repair and then secondary operation of previously damaged equipment, as well as due to new deliveries from Europe.

Media influence on wars

The most recent war started on false information that I remember was the invasion into Iraq, and it wasn't tabloids, it was bad intelligence. So I'd still say that your claim is absurd. If anything the UK/US yellow media tends to dig up shit that discredits their military, because again - catchy headlines, clicks, and revenue.
You can read about the Spanish-American war, as well as about Iraq.

Suicidal fans of atomic bombs in the Kremlin and not only

It'd be suicide though. I'm sure even the most deluded kremlinists can figure that one out, otherwise they'd have nuked Kyiv long time ago.
Are you sure that Russia will not use nuclear weapons? And then the American Minister Mayorcas is not entirely sure of this.

While the United States has expressed concern with Russian nuclear saber-rattling,
we do NOT anticipate that a nuclear detonation in Europe wouldhave any direct health
consequences on the homeland.
Source (p. 20)

Drunken troll on the throne

Makes one wonder why he isn't in charge of the "special operation" then. Might have something to do with him being a drunk troll, although it's cute how you think that Medvedev was in charge of anything in 2008 when Putin let him sit on the throne for a few years.
I thought that there would be a wide discussion now, but you write to me about "drunk trolls" in response. For your information, two days ago Putin appointed Medvedev first deputy chairman of the military-industrial commission. And about the throne: real monarchs do not give it to anyone, even temporarily.

Oryx and modern opportunities to influence people's minds

Their data is not based on opinion - they provide photo/video evidence, which is a lot more than you get from Konashenkov (or UA General Staff for that matter).
I don't want to say anything specific about Oryx, but do you really think that in our time it's impossible to forge photo and video evidence? If you think so, then watch a video about deep fakes.

Reply to LTU_btc

Which of the countries creates the most fakes about military operations?

Never said that. But Wester and Ukrainian is ages behind Russian in making of fakes.
The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine in March 2022 published a video in low quality from the computer game Arma 3, declaring it as proof of the destruction of 4 Russian Ka-52 helicopters. Ukrainian Ombudsman Lyudmila Denisova was fired because she spread fake stories about massive sexual violence against Ukrainians by Russian soldiers. There were also soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from Zmeiny Island, whom the Ukrainian government at first declared valiantly dead, but then it turned out that they were alive and surrendered. And this is just the tip of the iceberg of Ukrainian fakes. Enlighten me, have the Russian Ministry of Defense or key Russian media such as TASS, RIA, RG, Kommersant, IZ been caught doing something like this?

Again about bayraktars

So, ok, how many Bayraktars Ukraine had exactly and how many Russia destroyed? It would be interesting to hear real information from someone who post only verified information, no fakes and never makes mistakes. BTW, Russia loves to praise about their achievements, but there isn't many proofs about downed Bayraktars. There is maybe about 20 photos and videos with drones that were shot down. What is a bit strange. Meanwhile proofs about Orlan drones that were shot down comes almost on daily basis.
Orlan is a Russian relatively inexpensive drone. Its cost is tens of times less than that of a bayraktar, so there is not even much to refute here. Of course, they are shot down, but in terms of the amount it is not so expensive for the Russian army as it is for the Armed Forces of Ukraine with TB2.
The exact information on the number of Turkish TB2s is known only in the General Staff of Ukraine. But they won't publish it anyway. There are indirect signs that almost all Turkish drones have already been destroyed. This is evidenced by the lull in the media and also the reports of the Russian Ministry of Defense, which are also unloved by many here, which last reported about the TB2 they shot down in early October. And if we touch on the last mention of the Russian Ministry of Defense in general, then the mention of the Turkish UAV was a month and a half ago.

Nazi slogan

Happy that you liked my text under avatar. But FYI, this phrase have longer history than WWII. Anyway, nice interpretation of my minds, but I can respond you with your own words:
No need to lie about what I like. Your text under the avatar disgusts mentally normal people, because it is a Nazi slogan, and I don't like it at all.
It's disgusting that you joke about things like that.

Since when become official source? I always thought that offical source is Ministry of Defence of Ukraine or General Staff of the AFU, but not some news website which focus on military topics.
Since has been the official website of the Ukrainian information company Defense Express, which publishes magazines on military topics and which participated in the implementation of information projects for the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine. Many Ukrainian news sites refer to this resource (1, 2, 3). That is, as a source specifically for designating the Ukrainian position, it is quite suitable for itself.


Oh, alcochol additctive Dimon who is now playing role of clown Zhirinovsky who loves to make apocalyptic scenarios which never turn into reality. Is it really worth to pay attention to his words?
The Chinese leadership refused Zelensky, but accepted Medvedev to discuss, among other things, the situation in Ukraine, so in this case it was clearly demonstrated which of these two is perceived by the China as a more representative person to discuss important things, and who is a clown.

The essence of a neutral party

So, where is the problem exactly? Do you have proofs about them publishing fakes or only problem that you found is personalities that runs website?
The problem is that the resource may not publish fakes, but nevertheless, if the authors of the site are not neutral in relation to the parties to the conflict, then there is a possibility that they will publish information biased in relation to one of the parties.
2  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: December 24, 2022, 04:22:32 AM
Did you hear Putin fell down the stairs and pooped his pants?
Don't believe any rumors, it was Biden.

I don't. And - as usual with whataboutism deflection - you failed to indicate whether those two things are supposed to be positive or negative.
If you say you don't, then it's true. Let me think though... Nah, this is nonsense. You do it. And your thesis about "whataboutism" is your subjective assessment. For you, everything that is printed in the American media like CNN or AP about the Ukrainian conflict is true. A little bit of a journalistic "investigation" has appeared against the Russian troops and you are ready to swallow everything that American propaganda offers you. Moreover, you are ready to defend it as the ultimate truth. You don't even question their articles, if they were published in the American media, then it's true. You consume information in such a way and your perception is so tuned.

No, I'd say I have a pretty good understanding. Here is a quick recap if you need help: your genocidal dictator invaded Ukraine.
Judging by what you just wrote, you are generally far from any understanding.
You have been told more than once in this thread that at the beginning of 2014, the Kyiv junta carried out an anti-constitutional coup against the legitimate Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych, when 1 million rebels in Kyiv decided the fate of 35 million people throughout Ukraine, without any vote. If you don't know, that's not how democracies behave. Do you remember what in the United States calls the rioters who disagreed with the results of the voting in favor of Biden and who entered the Capitol on January 6, 2021? They are called "domestic terrorists". But in relation to Ukraine, Western propaganda called the rebels "democracy fighters", because it is beneficial for the United States to set fire to the underbelly of Russia and weaken it economically. The goal is to keep this area in a constant zone of tension. Do you think that Russia needs this most of all - to have hostilities right next to its border? Think about who is benefiting the most financially from the fact that Russia doesn't trade with the European Union.
For several years, a gang lured by the United States (and personally by Joe Biden), called the "Kiev government" refused to comply with the UN resolution in the form of the Minsk Agreements, according to which the regions of Donbass (DPR and LPR) would remain part of Ukraine, but with a special status. Instead of solving everything peacefully, the Ukrainian junta, on the contrary, has been arming itself to the teeth all this time, building fortifications in the Donbass and bombing the Russian-speaking population there. Sponsors from US and NATO helped junta in this.

From 2014, when Russia first invaded Ukraine,
through November 23, 2022, the United States has provided
approximately $21.8 billion in security assistance "to help
Ukraine preserve its territorial integrity, secure its borders,
and improve interoperability with NATO".
Source: US Congress

The ex-president of Ukraine Poroshenko and ex-Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel admitted that the Minsk agreements were a temporary respite for Ukraine. Zelensky has said that he is not satisfied with the way the Minsk agreements are drawn up. Moreover, on February 19, 2022, Zelensky began to talk about the rejection of the Budapest Memorandum, which means Ukraine's nuclear armament. Imagine nuclear weapons in a country whose armed forces officially include recognized Nazis from Azov.
When the heads of the DPR and LPR asked Zelensky on February 22, 2022 to withdraw troops from the Donbass, he refused to listen to them, sarcastically asking "Who is this?". During the 2019 presidential election in Ukraine, Zelensky promised to end the war in Ukraine. But then his plans changed and now he cuts Ukrainian soldiers into minced meat, cashing in on the deaths of ordinary Ukrainians with his wife and his inner circle.
This gave Putin a pretext to attack in February 2022 in accordance with Article 51 of the UN Charter, Chapter 7.
Also, in early October 2022, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said a phrase that I would like to verify with the help of independent qualified international lawyers. On October 4, 2022, referring to the UN Charter and the declaration of the General Assembly, Lavrov said the following: "Everyone must respect the territorial integrity of those states that have governments that recognize the right to self-determination and represent all the people living in the territory of a particular country. Zelensky's regime, and even more so Poroshenko's, didn't meet these criteria".

There was never any proof beyond speculation of Ukrainians having that many, let alone any proof of Russians destroying that many.
You were given a link to a completely official Ukrainian site, where they named the approximate number of bayraktars from 60 to 96. Everything else is guesswork. For some reason, you don't ask yourself that bayraktars have practically ceased to be talked about in the media. With a high degree of probability this means that they have all been destroyed (from 60 to 96), otherwise what's the point for the Armed Forces of Ukraine not to use them? In any case, only the General Staff of Ukraine knows the truth, how many bayraktars were in total and how many of them were lost. Shares such information, including on the HIMARS and aircrafts, during the hostilities no one will ever. Therefore, your conversations are at the level of faith. You also cannot refute the words of the Russian general Konashenkov, because you don't have the appropriate level of knowledge for this. What real evidence do you have that Konashenkov is lying, apart from your guesses?

Do you really think The Sun can start a world war?
Do you feel the difference between "starting a war" and "providing information support to escalate the conflict"? The American press works more effectively on you than the British. You seem to really underestimate the power of media influence, you don't even feel like you yourself fell on their hook. Because you are ready to tear Putin with your teeth after their articles. In your opinion, tabloids don't influence politics. Although this is not the case, judging by how many Britons are ready not only to send financial assistance to the Armed Forces of Ukraine and freeze in cold dwellings so that the Ukrainian soldiers fight against Putin's troops, but even go to fight as mercenaries in Ukraine. Western propaganda also went through the local users in such a way that now they put in their signatures the slogans that the Nazi Ukrainian formations shouted in the 40s of the 20th century, and call Russian subhumans.

Damn, you still think Zelensky as a person and/or his "regime" is what's important in this war. Here's the thing. Putin gives an order to retreat - war ends. Or if he croaks - there's a good chance war ends too. Zelensky does that - war most likely doesn't end. Take a minute to think about that.
Zelensky is a tool in the hands of American and British manipulators.
It seems to you that the war can simply be ended with the withdrawal of Russian troops. For the Kremlin, any departure from the initial plan of demilitarization, denazification and Ukraine's neutral/non-bloc status will be considered an unconditional military defeat for Russia and is at great risk of triggering a coup d'état in Russia. The Kiev government is ready to fight until Russia returns the Donbass and Crimea, and the Zelensky government also wants to demand reparations 600 billion euro and a military tribunal for Russia. Remind me how much the US and NATO countries paid Iraq, Syria, Libya and other countries to rebuild? I have to disappoint you, but Kremlin officials would rather destroy the whole of Europe together with Ukraine in a nuclear fire than go for it, or they will all be destroyed by radical Russian citizens who have been told for years about the genocide of people in the Donbass and about Crimea liberated from the Nazis. Too much is at stake in this conflict, and it's not about Ukraine at all, but about NATO's ambitions, which understand only the language of force. And there is no need to start tales here that NATO is a defensive alliance, these "defenders" have already killed millions of people for the sake of their goals. The forces of the alliance are stopped only by the presence of nuclear weapons in Russia, otherwise the smoldering coals would have long been left in the place of the Kremlin.
For some reason, many in the West think that everything in this conflict is tied to Putin. Of course, I don't know the inner workings of the Kremlin, but judging by the Telegram posts of the former Russian President Medvedev (who 3 days ago met with the leader of China), Putin is generally a dove of peace against his background, and if such a repulsed hawk as Medvedev comes, then a total war can quickly flare up. If it seems to someone that Medvedev is nothing from a military point of view, then I hasten to remind you that in 2008 (08.08.08), under Medvedev, they dealt with the Georgian army in five days, which attacked the territory of South Ossetia.

Oryx collects photo or video proof and goes to painstaking lengths to verify/deduplicate/identify the equipment. As far as sources go, it's one of the best. It's quite telling that you try to discredit it based on who posted the link.
Do they (Oryx) also always "tell the truth" like the American press? Let's see what they write about Oryx on Wikipedia:
Oryx, or Oryxspioenkop is a Dutch open-source intelligence (OSINT) defence analysis website,
and warfare research group. It is run by Stijn Mitzer and Joost Oliemans. Both have previously worked
for Netherlands-based Bellingcat. Oliemans also worked for Janes Information Services, a British
open-source military intelligence company.

^ One of Oryx worked with a British military intelligence company. Do you even know that the British military are among the most active supporters of Ukraine and are never a neutral side in this conflict? Also, the authors are former employees of Bellingcat. Now let's see what opinion other information resources have about this organization:
[2016-10-22 17:53:09] <WikiLeaks> Bellingcat is part funded by the UK MoD and is UKUSA aligned.
Source: archive of American investigative reporter Emma Best
3  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: December 21, 2022, 04:19:37 AM
Reply to suchmoon

LTU_btc posted it as an example of a false claim, it's absurd to imply Z-support here.
By the way, the telegram post that LTU referred to has apparently already been deleted. Therefore, with your criticism, you help such channels become objective sources of information. Although the British and Ukrainian media usually do not remove their lies, even after numerous complaints.

You post Z-links and other Russian propaganda as facts.
You publish Western propaganda as facts, without trying to think critically and without understanding the origins of the Russian-Ukrainian conflict at all.
I suggest you read a book about the OUN UPA by a Canadian professor of history and all those who believe that there is no Nazism in modern Ukraine.

It was Simchich who gave the order and led the destruction of the Polish village of Pishten (Pistyn),
as a result of which the Bandera people massacred all its Poles, including all the elderly, women, and children.
The latter were killed in the most brutal way.

You also post Konashenkov's (who claims to have destroyed more bayraktars, airplanes, and HIMARS launchers than Ukraine ever had) bullshit unironically.
At least, everything is quite consistent with bayraktars. In the summer, Ukrainian sources called the number of delivered Turkish drones from 60 to 96 (~ 10-16 complexes, one complex includes 6 drones). Konashenkov in his reports announced the destruction of about 85 bayraktars.

Then you claim that British tabloids are starting WW3.
The cause of WW3 could be the cretinism of the Ukrainian authorities, who, with the help of the Polish incident, tried to draw NATO into a full-fledged war with Russia, and the "British tabloids" provided them with information support in this. Only the full involvement of NATO can save the Zelensky regime from complete failure, even though tens of millions of people could be killed because of this.

But if you are indeed serious about this then is seems that Putinism has caused you severe brain damage. Seek help.
I'm far from the great military analysts who seriously believe that the Russians themselves blow up their gas pipes.

Surprisingly they don't blame Biden, perhaps that would be a bit of a stretch even for the library of amazing tales that is Russian propaganda.
American propaganda claimed that the Russian hackers helped Trump win the election a few years ago. This year, Biden said that it was Putin who was to blame for the inflation in the United States. What would you call this phenomenon? I would suggest calling it "Biden's Brain Syndrome".
And Zelensky’s wife, this deceitful brute, bypassed with her lies even such a filthy creature as Lyudmila Denisova, and she lies that the wives of Russian soldiers encouraged their husbands to rape Ukrainian women. I sincerely tell you, those morons who believe in this nonsense are dumber than amoeba.

Reply to LTU_btc

LOL, offcourse that I know that's pro-Russian channel, but where did I used it as source of information. I just showed obvious example from Russian media how they're making fake stories.
Do you think that American, European or Ukrainian media never lie, or do you have a special goal in life to expose lies only in the Russian media?

There was no logical reasons to think that it was Ukrainian missile.
Except for the fact that this is not the first attempt by the Zelensky to draw NATO countries into a direct conflict with Russia. The Ukrainian air defense missile flew in the opposite direction and was supposed to self-destruct and not fly into Poland. Only due to the fact that the journalists managed to photograph the fragments of the rocket in time, the Ukrainians could not accuse Russia of attacking the Poles. But the British and Canadians, on the other hand, tried very hard to blame Russia for this air strike.

Yeah, this one. Offcourse, I don't read her minds, but from context it looks that she was thinking that it was Russian missile. How else you would explain words ''how did you wanted''?
It is read as it is written and there is no need to invent your own version of events.

I'm not subscribed here channel, so, I didn't saw this posts. But actually it's not even here text, it's just repost from other channel.
Enough of the acting already, mind reader. Just admit that you are making up stories based on your own personal fantasies.

Where do you see manipulation on facts and where exactly is lies in my post?
Read on. It's detailed there.

Your fakes were debunked multiple times by me and other users. I'm a bit lazy to dig deep in past, but here is one example with Bayraktars:
Aren't you tired of juggling facts yet? In that post, I refer to the Ukrainian site to determine how many Turkish drones were delivered to Ukraine. Ukrainian sources give an approximate number - from 60 to 96, because one bayraktar complex contains 6 of these drones. If it seemed to you that two Ukrainian users debunked something there, then you are demonstrating your ignorance in this way. Especially for people like you, a lazy reader of thoughts, I publish a quote from the Ukrainian site.

... then most likely the Armed Forces now operate somewhere between 10-16 Bayraktar complexes TB2.

Now look what Ukrainian user Johnny wrote. For some reason, he added to the 72 Turkish drones (which were discovered by the Russian army in April) already destroyed drones (35 units).

From russian words russia destroyed 35 bayraktars by March 25
Ukraine at total has 75 bayractars (by 28th of June !!! )
Russia at April discovered 72 bayraktar drones.

35 + 72 = 107
It exceed total number of ukrainian bayraktars even from future delivers (because 75 is number at 28th of June, again)

72 is the number of drones detected by the Russian army from late February to mid-April 2022. 35 drones, according to the Russian army, were destroyed in March, and these downed 35 bayraktars are part of 72 drones found in April. Therefore, when Johnny adds 35 to 72 drones, he is doing complete nonsense.

Johnny also writes that the Armed Forces of Ukraine had only 75 bayraktars in June. Apparently, he forgot how to read, because it was written to him in Ukrainian and white on the Ukrainian website that from 60 to 96 drones were in Ukraine at the end of June 2022.

Further, Johnny refers to some obscure blog, calling it a "neutral source". Why is it neutral? Obviously because user Johnny called it that.

Of course yes, so we have a neutral source for such information.
Oryx blog

There was also the slanderer Waradlain, who came up with an amazing story about a "ready post by e-mail" on the grounds that in the post about bayraktars there was a link to the telegram channel, which I myself indicated as needing verification, and which was not the main one in my post.

Therefore, LTU_btc, before throwing accusations, first make an effort on yourself and study the situation in detail. The fact that these two Ukrainian users sang there does not in any way confirm Medusa's lies about bayraktars, which you quoted.

PS. I noticed the signature that you placed under your avatar. Do you know that this is the Nazi greeting of Ukrainian Nationalists, which were responsible for the death of tens of thousands of Jews and Poles? I didn’t specifically write about Russians, it seems that you don’t care when they are killed, but maybe at least your attitude towards Poles and Jews is a little better.

"Slava Ukrainy", "Glory to Ukraine", was the greeting of the OUN, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists,
and, in 1941, that organization issued instructions that the greeting should be made with the right arm raised,
with "the fingertips a little to the right, a little above the top of the head." Similar salutes were used by the Croatian Ustashe,
the Hlynka Guard in Slovakia, the Spanish Falangists, and, of course, the Nazis.
4  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: December 19, 2022, 11:39:26 AM
Russians is definitely shelling themselves, sometimes just for nice image. Look at this video for example:
It's Lancet drone attack against S-300 system. The problem is that this system belongs to Russia. Just look at Z symbol on it.

The video shows how the missile hits the already destroyed Russian military equipment S-300. For what purpose this video was published only now (judging by the green grass, the video is not fresh) one can only guess. However, it's good that it's published because people should develop a healthy response to resisting any lies, especially on such sensitive topics.

But you post links to Russian Z telegram channels, what isn't better source at all.
You just posted a link to the @HersonVestnik yourself as your source of information. Should I show you their logo or did you not see it the first time?

Here is their logo

Then you should be recognized as a supporter of the Z movement?
It turns out that you consider yourself entitled to publish any links when it suits you, but you criticize other people for the same.

British newspapers could become perpetrators of third world war? I think you overestimate power of them..
But you obviously underestimate them. Why do you think they lied in their articles about Russian strikes on the territory of Poland, was it not for the purpose of escalating the conflict?

BTW, soon after this accident happened, I remember that Russian propagandist Simonyan posted on her Telegram that now Polish people will know how people of Belgorod in border feels living in constant shelling from Ukraine. I'm not sure does this post still exist or no but even russian propagandists were thinking that it was Russian missile.

Apparently, you mean this post in Telegram?

Have you seriously concluded about Simonyan's thoughts on this text? Especially for you, here is the next post in her telegram, which she published 10 minutes later.

You are again manipulating the facts.

Your lies were debunked multiple times already, but offcourse you will call it fakes because it comes from Western or Ukrainian sources and it doesn't fits Russian narrative.
Who debunked, are you? You couldn't even write a post without lying.
5  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: December 17, 2022, 06:12:19 PM
I'm sure that sooner or later he will come back here again, dropping 1)another wall of text full of Russian propaganda with links to ''very credible sources'', 2)like RT or Konashnenkov. But when someone 3)debunks his fakes, he usually don't bother to reply.

1. Regarding the "wall of text", I'm thinking about formatting it in the form of comics, so that it would be easier for the famous analysts here to perceive information.
This is a joke, who didn’t understand, because after the events with the blown up gas pipelines, it seems that the most wonder guys gathered here, who really believe that Russian troops are shelling themselves in Donetsk, Luhansk, at the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant and exploding their own pipelines.

2. I don't remember that I was quoting the RT site. Can you provide at least one link to confirm that you are not trying to manipulate facts?
But even if I quoted this site, their activities cannot be compared with the well-known British sites, which a month ago lied recklessly that Russia attacked Poland and killed two tractor drivers. These unscrupulous swindlers could become the perpetrators of the third world war. These (owners and editors of British newspapers) are real criminals and the most shameless creatures.

Further, when I quoted Konashenkov, it was in relation to the number of Turkish bayraktars shot down, as far as I remember. And then some local users, like you and Suchmoon, tried to prove that they were delivered to Ukraine much less than they were shot down in the reports of the Russian army. The situation regarding bayraktars is reflected in this post.

3. Regarding the "debunked fakes" give me links to your revelations. I hope this will not be the same slag that you reposted from Medusa, who posts information without checking it.
6  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Whose Crimea on: December 15, 2022, 04:32:51 PM
Apparently not all of them have disappeared. There's a partisan movement there in the occupied Crimea, and their work if very effective. Just recently the resistance organization ATESH(ATEШ)  took responsibility for for burning down a Russian military bases in Crimea [...]

Do you really evaluate the "effectiveness of the partisans" according to messages in Ukrainian media and anonymous telegram chats (where they always write only the truth and nothing else, lol)?
Is this some kind of sophisticated form of trolling, or are you serious about this?
7  Local / Политика / Re: Мы народ Украины on: November 25, 2022, 11:30:49 AM
В России про убитых украинских солдат военные сводки сообщают, что они все "националисты".
а убитых мирных жителей как русская пропаганда называет, не скажешь пиздабол ты наш?
которых в одном только Мариуполе свыше 100 тысяч.

Смерть каждого невинного человека является трагедией, но то количество жертв, которое вы называете, оно чем подтверждается?
То, как вы ведёте "диалог" и с какими интонациями, волей-неволей заставляют усомниться в ваших словах.

Судя по всему, вы являетесь жертвой пропаганды, но только не российской, а украинской.

Верховный комиссар ООН по правам человека Мишель Бачелет 16 июня 2022 года официально подтвердила гибель 1348 мирных жителей Мариуполя. Ещё она добавила, что реальное количество погибших гражданских может доходить до нескольких тысяч человек:

На сегодня УВКПЧ подтвердило 1348 погибших из числа гражданского населения в результате
боев в Мариуполе, включая 70 детей. Это смерти в результате воздушных ударов, танковых и
артиллерийских обстрелов, применения легкого и стрелкового оружия в ходе уличных боев.
Реальное количество погибших среди гражданского населения в результате боевых действий может
доходить до нескольких тысяч человек. Тела погибших находят в импровизированных индивидуальных
и братских могилах во дворах, на улицах и в парках, а также в брошенных домах и квартирах.
Многих еще предстоит захоронить. До тех пор пока все тела погибших не обнаружены и
не идентифицированы, пока не установлен их военный или гражданский статус и причина смерти,
невозможно назвать точное число гражданских лиц, погибших в результате боевых действий,
а также из-за нехватки продовольствия и воды, отсутствия медицинской помощи и других трудностей в условиях военных действий.

В докладе ООН Управления Верховного комиссара по правам человека от 21 ноября 2022 года сообщается про 6595 погибших мирных украинских жителей в результате военных действий, начатых 24 февраля 2022 года. Эти данные также включают Донецкую и Луганскую области, на территории которых погибло 3939 человек. Снова представителями ООН указывается, что число реальных потерь среди гражданского населения намного выше, но даже примерного количества не называется.

УВКПЧ считает, что фактические цифры значительно выше, поскольку получение информации
из некоторых мест, где велись интенсивные боевые действия, задерживается, а многие сообщения
все еще ожидают подтверждения. Это касается, например, Мариуполя (Донецкая область),
Изюма (Харьковская область), Лисичанска, Попасной и Северодонецка (Луганская область),
где есть сообщения о многочисленных жертвах среди гражданского населения.

@cryptomaxsun таким образом, даже самые свежие отчёты ООН ваши слова не подтверждают. Будьте любезны предоставить ссылку на достоверный ресурс с нейтральной стороны (не пророссийский и не проукраинский) про 100 тысяч убитых жителей Мариуполя, иначе появятся основания выдать вам нейтральную метку, характеризующую вас как "пиз@абол ты наш" и бойца информационного фронта, не гнушающегося откровенным враньём.
8  Local / Политика / Re: Мы народ Украины on: November 23, 2022, 05:41:10 AM
Крым вам не ...

Когда Зеленский ставит условиями возврат Украине не только Крыма, но ещё и Донбасса для прекращения войны, то таким образом он отказывается от мирных соглашений, потому что невозможно даже представить ситуацию, когда российские власти на это пойдут. А если даже каким-то чудным образом жители Кремля всё-таки сдадут Крым с Донбассом, то после этого руководителей РФ вынесут вперёд ногами сами россияне. И армия не станет защищать такую власть, после того как в этом конфликте полегло десятки тысяч российских солдат и множество военных генералов. Потеря указанных земель может стать началом масшатабной гражданской войны внутри РФ, в виду того, что иначе как самое гнусное предательство это воспринято не будет, и аналогии со сдачей Москвы в 1812 году как с Херсоном, уже слушать никто не станет.

Те люди, которые оценивают возможность отвода российских войск из названных территорий как более-менее реальную в текущей перспективе, плохо знакомы с силой российской пропаганды, которая годами информационно накачивала людей про возврат Крыма и войну на Донбассе, а также с военной доктриной РФ:

27. Российская Федерация оставляет за собой право
применить ядерное оружие в ответ на применение против нее и
(или) ее союзников ядерного и других видов оружия массового
поражения, а также в случае агрессии против Российской
Федерации с применением обычного оружия, когда под угрозу
поставлено само существование государства.
Военная доктрина Российской Федерации

Покорного мяса в России для этого хватит с запасом.
По ключевым словам можно определить, кто чьей пропаганды наелся больше. В России про убитых украинских солдат военные сводки сообщают, что они все "националисты". Хотя подобная формулировка кажется странной, потому что так любого патриота можно назвать. Российская пропаганда зачастую называет солдат ВСУ сатанистами и фашистами. В свою очередь, украинские СМИ направлены на то, чтобы не считать россиян людьми, называя их орками, нелюдями, мясом и т.п. Дегуманизация по обоим фронтам идёт, чтобы более быстрыми темпами проходил процесс сокращения некогда единого народа за деньги коллективного Запада.
9  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: | Golden Boot ~ Win $250 by guessing top scorer/total goals! on: November 20, 2022, 07:17:43 AM
Jude Bellingham (6 goals)

User ID: ae018ac4-cea3-5ab7-99c4-b3aa787d94a9
10  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: | World Cup Predictor ~ Win $500 by guessing Group/Final Outcome! on: November 20, 2022, 07:04:48 AM
Group A: Netherlands
Group B: England
Group C: Argentina
Group D: France
Group E: Germany
Group F: Belgium
Group G: Brazil
Group H: Portugal

Winner: Netherlands
Total goal in final: 2 goals
User ID: ae018ac4-cea3-5ab7-99c4-b3aa787d94a9
11  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: November 13, 2022, 03:41:45 AM
Written records are a bitch uh? You are lucky I am not fifteen and I do not bet on deaths (nor for that matter on things that do not depend on my own acts).

So... I am allowed by you highness to continue "my wishful thinking"? Or maybe it was something not wanting to talk about the offensive and how, where and when it may have happened? Well, we won't know.

Now, go back to trolling. As Napoleon said, never interrupt the opponent when he is making a mistake.

Are you talking about that Napoleon who fled Russia at the end of December 1812?

If, according to you, you are not fifteen, then why are you reposting the 3-months-old comment, with an offer of a dispute, which you generously refused, considering it childish? I remember how in your answer you said high-flown phrases that you do not bet "on people's deaths and countries destroyed" and at the same time you didn't find a better place to advertise "your sponsor".

Your Nazi phrases also say a lot, including why you are constantly sticking around in this topic and savoring these hostilities between two neighboring countries all day long.
This is for history, to once again indicate that you are a Spanish Nazi. And should be treated accordingly to your posts on the basis of this.

I wonder how many people in the RF really believe the crap or they are just trying hard to believe it so that they do not feel part of the scum of the Earth.

Now to the topic. I don't understand the optimism of those people in this thread who support Ukraine, which behave like fans at a match, supporting their favorite team. For me, it's already obvious that at least Ukraine has already lost for sure for purely economic reasons around May, since its budget is supported entirely by Western financial injections. A 1/3 of the population has dispersed to different countries. Tens of thousands of dead soldiers on both sides. But even if the Russian troops stop fully attacking and simply stand on the defensive, this will still not save Ukraine, since the monetary yoke, generously thrown by its Western partners, has already lowered this country to the very bottom of a deep debt hole.

Western aid will not be eternal, and what will the population of Ukraine do, sitting without work, wages, heat, electricity? If the country's army is entirely paid from the budget of another state, then such an army is mercenary and it defends not national interests, but the interests of those who provide it. But where will the aggression of the Ukrainian army be directed when financial aid suddenly cuts off, have you thought about this? Guess from two times where Ukrainian citizens will go to save themselves, to Russia or Europe?

Regarding reparations. Do you think it will be possible to steal 300 billion USD from Russia without consequences and give them to Ukraine? Then it will be quite expected that Russia will confiscate the property of companies from those countries that will be involved in the theft of its money. But under such a scenario, one should also expect that countries such as China and India, taught by the experience of Russia, will withdraw money from European and American banks. That will also undermine the global economy.

I don't think that Russians will pay hundreds of billions $ to Ukraine because of their mentality. The Russians will literally hang themselves rather than go to this one. They will arrange a big internal rebellion or arrange a third world war. Therefore, if the residents of the Kremlin really want a repeat of the Russian Civil War like in 1917 for several years or a global cataclysm, they will do just that. Because it is impossible to simultaneously broadcast from high tribunes to the inhabitants of Russia that their country is a winner, a fighter against Nazism and American anti-human hegemony, and then make the country an eternally penitent monetary slave to those very "Nazis" and "anti-people." But a riot in Russia will definitely not be good for anyone, neither in Europe nor in the USA.
12  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: October 20, 2022, 06:47:02 PM
Russia has issued a grim warning to the rest of the world: World War III is all but guaranteed if Ukraine’s Western allies continue to meddle in their ongoing conflict. Specifically, a top Kremlin official threatened worldwide destruction should NATO approve Ukraine’s request to join the organization. <...>

Of course, the threat of a nuclear conflict should not be underestimated, but I do not think that there are suicide bombers in the Kremlin or the Pentagon who are ready to destroy themselves and the whole world in a fiery hell. And even if there are such rabid psychopaths in the highest positions, they are more likely to be neutralized by people from their environment who want to live. However, while European leaders are now methodically killing the economies of their states and escalating the conflict more and more at the instigation of the USA, the confidence that a global war between East and West can be avoided is fading before our eyes.

paxmao, when you describe the concept of "legal annexation", what relevant international legal documents did you follow so that I could also get acquainted with them?

In the course of your comment, I had a few questions. If you don't mind, please answer them. I have put my questions in brackets in your quote.

Legal annexation could potentially be if, after a long period of peace (How many months or years exactly?), a referendum with all guarantees (What are these guarantees and who provides them?), time to put forward arguments against and in favour (Who chooses such time?) and abundant international observers (How many observers should be there and who should appoint them?) is held among the inhabitants of a region a a majority decides that they want to join a different state.

According to the definition of "annexations" which I found, they are illegal.

<...>F.  Evaluation
38  Under present international law, annexations are illegal since they are incompatible with the most fundamental rule
on the prohibition of any threat or use of force. As such, they do not result in a lawful title to territory. All States are
under a legal obligation not to recognize annexations and their consequences as lawful. They may, however, give some
de facto recognition to unlawful annexations in order to accommodate adequately the needs of the inhabitants of the
annexed territory. There are good reasons to consider the prohibition of annexations and the obligation not to recognize
them and their consequences as lawful as rules of customary international law with the rank of ius cogens.

It is much better understood if one thinks of a referendum of independence of which there are a few cases.

Regarding referendums, there is an interesting post with some historical data confirming that the countries of the so-called collective West (led by the US and UK) are ready to recognize or not recognize the results of referendums, only when they get benefits from it.

Source in Russian

* Updated quote from Encyclopedia of Public International Law on Annexation
13  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: October 19, 2022, 06:56:54 PM
Oh, well now it's crystal clear, why didn't you just say that earlier...only minor detail left is to define levels of shitheadness. At what level of shitheadness should Article 111 (UA Impeachment) should be enacted (if ever) and at which you can just wipe your ass with the constitution because US cookies showed up on the streets? Yep, sounds like a totally legit democracy.
Yanukovich fled along with some members of his government. Rada passed a law declaring him unable to fulfill his duties and set a date to elect his replacement.
Impeachment is essentially a trial for a crime. Yanik would have been eligible for this process if he didn't run away. He could also veto the law if he didn't run away. He basically resigned by running away and abdicating his duties. <...>

There are opinions that the removal of Yanukovych from the post of Ukrainian president in February 2014 was unconstitutional.

24/06/2015 | Updated June 23, 2016
*** The procedure of impeachment ***
According to the procedure of impeachment defined in Article 111, the Rada must establish
a special investigatory commission to formulate charges against the president,
seek evidence to justify the charges and come to conclusions about the president's guilt for the Rada to consider.
To find the president guilty, at least two-thirds of Rada members must assent.
Prior to a final vote to remove the president from power, the procedure requires
• the Constitutional Court of Ukraine to review the case and certify that the constitutional procedure of investigation and consideration has been followed, and
• the Supreme Court of Ukraine to certify that the acts of which the President is accused are worthy of impeachment.
To remove the president from power, at least three-quarters of Rada members must assent.
<!> The Rada didn't make any pretence of following this procedure. No investigatory commission was established and the Courts were not involved.
On 22 February 2014, the Rada simply passed a resolution purporting to remove Yanukovych from office in accordance with the Constitution.
The British Government lied to Parliament in saying that Yanukovych was impeached and removed from power in accordance with the Constitution.
That the British Government lied is confirmed by President Poroshenko's action in referring this law to the
Constitutional Court on the grounds that Yanukovych wasn't impeached in accordance with the Constitution.
Source: HuffPost

The illegal annexation <...>

What is legal annexation?

Curious prediction from George Soros about NATO and manpower from Eastern Europe

"Toward a New World Order: The Future of NATO"
*** November 1, 1993
Incidentally, the combination of manpower from Eastern Europe with the technical capabilities of NATO
would greatly enhance the military potential of the Partnership because it would reduce the risk of body bags for NATO,
which is the main constraint on their willingness to act. This is a viable alternative to the looming world disorder.
14  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: October 07, 2022, 05:41:34 PM
The 2022 Nobel Peace Prize was awarded today.
The Ukrainian president was one of the favorites to receive this prize, however, it was given to other people: 1) the Ukrainian human rights organization; 2) an oppositional Russian human rights organization; 3) a Belarusian oppositionist.
But it would be phenomenal if Zelensky got this prize after his recent statements about NATO "preemptive strikes" against Russia.
Any reasonable person understands that such actions can lead to a nuclear apocalypse and the destruction of all life on the planet.

"Like it was before February 24 - preemptive strikes.
So that they know what will happen to them if they use [nuclear weapons], and not vice versa:
wait for Russian nuclear strikes, so that later they can say,
'Oh, that’s how you are? Well, take it from us," the President stressed.
"Reconsider the application of its pressure - that's what I think NATO should do: reconsider the application."

The winners have already been criticized on Twitter by Mikhail Podolyak, adviser to the head of presidential administration Zelensky.

15  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: September 03, 2022, 10:05:41 AM
The British newspaper Daily Express and the Chief Directorate of Intelligence of the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine are spreading a fake that young Russian conscripts are being used as cannon fodder in Ukraine.

In fact, the original photo was published in 2018, it depicts young men who received a deferment from military serving in the Russian army.

16  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: August 03, 2022, 09:11:31 PM
Reply to suchmoon

Freedom of speech in the US, Russia and Ukraine

Tell me, in the United States and European countries, there are no such examples in relation to protesters? What is Julian Assange sitting for, can you answer?

Not for holding a blank sheet of paper, that's for sure. You remind of this old Soviet joke. A Russian and an American discuss freedom of speech in their countries. The American says "I can stand in front of the White House and yell 'Reagan is an idiot' and I won't get arrested". Russian: "Same thing here. I can stand in the Red Square and yell 'Reagan is an idiot' and I won't get arrested".

In fact, people in the US are only free to yell at the American leadership in Soviet jokes. A case in point was this June in Los Angeles, when a police officer knocked a protesting woman with a megaphone to the ground and then hit her.

Regarding the arrest for blank sheets in Russia, it really happened, but those people were not sent to prison, they received administrative fines. And I think it happened a few times. In my opinion, the Russian authorities deliberately applied such a ridiculous punishment in the early days of the Russian-Ukrainian conflict, specifically to bring down any protest moods in society.
However, I will note that even this punishment cannot be compared with what is currently happening in Ukraine.
The other day, a Ukrainian blogger was sent to a filtration camp for being indignant at the attitude towards the Russian language in Lvov.

Start date of the proxy war

When and how did the proxy war start? 2014 Euromaidan? 1991? 1945?

February 24, 2022, since before this date there was no official confirmation from the OSCE about the presence of Russian troops on the territory of Ukraine.

Who is the baddest guy

Putin's army invaded Ukraine, it's very obvious who the bad guy is. When Ukrainian army surrounds Voronezh and bombs the shit out of it, I'll post the same thing about Russians not meeting Ukrainian liberators with flowers. Is that going to be sufficiently "objective" for you?

Do you not consider that since 2014 the Kiev government has been bombing Russian-speaking residents of Ukraine in the Donbas and as a result of these attacks 14,000 people have died? The Kiev government signed the Minsk agreements to accumulate military power against Russia. They never intended to fulfill them.

"The Minsk agreements bought Ukraine time, including to build its army, by freezing the conflict with Russia."

Desire of some countries to join NATO

There's the fact that in 30 years most of "Warsaw pact" and some former USSR members have joined EU and/or NATO, or are fighting to do so.

When joining the EU or NATO, referendums are held in countries or everything is decided only by the leadership of these countries? Because Sweden, for example, refused to hold a referendum on NATO membership, although this directly affects the citizens of this country.

Reply to paxmao

About the dispute over whether Ukraine will be able to return the cities

Firstly, I am not fifteen.

Biological age doesn't matter, a person can be an immature person even at 30, for example, when he repeats the same nicknames through a post, such as "Adolf Putin", as in kindergarten. But it seems to you that this is a more "adult reaction" than to answer for your words and put your stay on the forum at stake. Or here's another example of infantilism from Spain, when the Prime Minister proposed not to wear neckties to save energy. With such brilliant politicians, Spain, and indeed the whole of Europe, has a "great future".

Second, I could not care less if you decide to leave the forum so your wage has zero value to me.

Personal attitude to me doesn't matter. If you were confident in the victory of Ukraine and in their successful counter-offensive, you would be able to at least somehow confirm this. And you can only carry nonsense here about the successes of the Ukrainian army. Even Zelensky has already been forced to admit that Russian troops have advantages in firepower and manpower.

Lastly, and in any case, I would rather not bet on people's deaths and countries destroyed.

No one is asking you to bet on people's lives. The only question was whether there would be a successful counter-offensive of the Ukrainian army or not.

However, if you are so sure of the qualities of the glorious RF and like high stakes, join the army, you can put your body were your words are. Send us a picture.

I do not support wars between fraternal peoples.

However if, as I suspect, you wish to keep "wallposting" and betting from the safety of your chair, you can see my sponsor below, great site, good prices and excellent reputation.
What are these dances on the bones? Don't you think that you have chosen not the best theme for advertising your site? Here in the topic they write about the "people's deaths and countries destroyed", and you decided to do advertising. This is not infantilism, but some kind of rabid cynicism on your part.

My objective is to let anyone in the RF that is considering joining the RF army to understand clearly what are they getting into and how stupid is to die for Putin. What I claim about the RF army is real. Undisciplined, unready, obsolete material... all claims but little result.

You either pretend or don’t really understand that you give unfounded hopes to people who, having read such opuses, may think (not only from you, but in general, I mean such thoughts) that it would be nice to go to war on the side of Ukraine, and then die ingloriously under Russian fire. You seem to have a lot of fun when the Slavic peoples destroy each other?

Oh... so the Ukrainians are right when they call the Orcs "tourists". Putin is still calling this a "special operation", yet he is at war. Nothing of what he says can be trusted (any enemy communication is by definition disinformation). However you can rely on facts [...]

What are the nicknames "orcs", are you a Nazi or what? And I read your last post here...

I wonder how many people in the RF really believe the crap or they are just trying hard to believe it so that they do not feel part of the scum of the Earth.

Maybe your grandfather or great-grandfather fought on the side of the Nazi troops in World War II? That would explain a lot.

Reply to Waradlain

Explosion in Yelenovka

The point is that russia killed 50+ people and is trying to shift the blame. Even tho the facts show that russia undoubtedly did it. That's all.

This is all empty talk until a decision is made by independent experts. The Russian military leadership recently invited UN and Red Cross experts to visit Yelenovka and check the versions of both sides (Ukraine and Russia) themselves. The UN leadership is ready to send a group of experts.

Reply to TwitchySeal

Language law in Ukraine

Ahh forbidding law abiding ethnic Russian UA citizens from teaching their children their native language under disguise of "decolonization" while claiming that it's not a "natural language to ukrainians" or they have to leave the country is not an indirect method aimed at forced migration at all.  Roll Eyes. True EU values. Tell us you support ethnic cleansing without saying you support ethnic cleansing

This law forbidding law abiding ethnic Russian UA citizens from teaching their children their native language does not exist.  

I'm not saying that such laws exists, just replying to johhnyUA who seems to be truly bewildered why discrimination and racism go against EU values and are bad

You're saying it because it's something you've heard many times before from people that support Russia's invasion.  

It's not true though.  It's a lie that exists to justify Russias actions and thus increase Russia support.

How to call the event when schools in Russian cease to exist in accordance with the Ukrainian law?

Battle for Kyiv

If you really think it makes sense to ignore anything written by the west (free press) and only believe reports that are pro Russia or coming from Russian media (which is largely controlled by Putin), then obviously nothing will change your mind.  But if not, and you've realized how ridiculous your points have been in the past like this one ... have a read and then let me know if you really think the first month of the war went mostly according to plan for Putin.

What you wrote about the capture of Kyiv is generally meaningless. Referring to the words of the Russian leadership, there must be a primary source in a Russian authoritative publication that these statements were made at all. If you quote the Russian side, then you will have to refer to Russian sources, no matter how disgusting they are to you.
Referring to articles on Wikipedia regarding the current military conflict is a not good manner, because Wikipedia on this issue does not quote Russian sources. But on Wikipedia, they happily quotes the lies of the Western media. A typical recent example, when Ukrainian troops threw anti-personnel mines all over Donetsk, and the deceitful Daily Online claimed that Russian troops did it and showed a video with a DPR fighter, saying that this is a "Ukrainian soldier" clearing a Russian mine with a tire.

Original taken from here and then a clear reaction of the author Marina Akhmedova.

Reply to johhnyUA

Russian is not the natural language to ukrainians, this is colonial language which was forced to learn by force. So it's normal that country want to leave colonial past behind. If someone want, he can learn russian by himself or in private schools.

The Constitution of Ukraine is no longer respected for you?
Although, what am I asking about, because in Ukraine they didn’t care about the Constitution, after the Maidan of 2014, this is an anti-constitutional coup, where the opinions of all the inhabitants of Ukraine were not taken into account, and the opponents of the Maidan were persecuted and dozens of people were burned in Odessa, and those who were lucky to survive were severely beaten.

Now i think that around 90 % of russian books and authors will be canceled by ukrainian audience. But this is fair I think

The question is who do you attribute to the Ukrainian public? Ukrainian propaganda wants to imagine that Ukraine has a monolithic society that hates Russia as one and all, with the exception of a small number of collaborators. However, the reality is different when it comes to eastern Ukraine.
Recently, a video was released on YouTube, in which two Ukrainian warriors talk about the attitude of local residents in Artemovsk (Bakhmut) to the Ukrainian channel "Teлeбaчeння Topoнтo" (685 thousand subscribers on YouTube).
Reporter: The local population does not interfere with you here? Are you for them to leave or for them to be here?
Soldier: The local population is waiting for them to raise the tricolor.
Reporter: Seriously? That is, those who gave up, are they a bit pro-Russian?
Soldier: Look at the telegram channel "Artemovsk-Bakhmut", where they leak our location.
Reporter: Was there a lot of times when a specific area was pointed out?
Soldier: Yes.
Soldier: Near Kyiv in the Chernihiv region, there real Ukrainians helped us, told us where Rusnya was. And here all these collaborators and non-humans, on the contrary, they give up all our positions.

Also revealing is an interview with the governor of Nikolaev, who suspects all residents.

17  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russia plays the blame game on: August 03, 2022, 02:37:28 PM

The BBC article at the link states the following:

"A spokesperson for Moscow's defence ministry alleged the US was approving targets
for American-made Himars artillery used by Kyiv's forces.
Lt Gen Igor Konashenkov said intercepted calls between Ukrainian officials revealed the link.
The BBC could not independently verify this."

BBC is in their repertoire, when some information is inconvenient for them, they immediately turn into helpless blind kittens.
The Russian General Konashenkov clearly indicated who and where from Ukrainian officials said this.
It was an interview with General Skibitsky, Deputy Head of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ukrainian Military Department, in The Telegraph.

"Asked how the US-provided Himars multiple-launch rocket systems have so precisely
targeted Russian fuel and ammunition depots, as well as battlefield headquarters in eastern Ukraine,
Gen Skibitsky said “in this case in particular, we use real-time information”.
US officials are not providing direct targeting information, which would potentially undermine their case
for not being direct participants in the war, Gen Skibitsky said.
However, he suggested there was a level of consultation between intelligence officials of both countries
prior to launching missiles that would allow Washington to stop any potential attacks
if they were unhappy with the intended target."
18  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: July 31, 2022, 01:51:38 PM
Reply to suchmoon

I will respond to your comment point by point.


Come on... Navalny is in prison on fake charges, and many people related to him are under various degrees of repressions.

Navalny is not an oppositionist, but a naive fool who thought that for his sake the Russian people would revolt. His arrival in Russia from Germany in January 2021 is the most idiotic act. Navalny is an inflated image of an "oppositionist", beneficial to the Kremlin for some time, such as showing that Russia has its own oppositionists. Real oppositionists (such as Alexei Kungurov, whom you most likely have never even heard of) are not allowed to speak on large state information channels. At the same time, Navalny, who was constantly invited to speak on the same "pseudo-opposition" channels, such as Ekho Moskvy, which was financed by the state-owned Russian company Gazprom-Media.
At Navalny’s request, opposition leader Maxim Martsinkevich (who was tortured to death in prison in 2020), was imprisoned. At Navalny's initiative, instead of marching towards the Kremlin, a "sitting strike" was staged and a protest on Bolotnaya Square was strangled in 2013. Navalny didn't campaign for the use of real means of counteracting the system, such as strikes, tax waivers, highway closures, and so on.
By the way, here is how Alexei Kungurov commented on Navalny's imprisonment
"Believe me, you definitely shouldn't worry about Navalny - everything is almost in chocolate with him.
I can compare at least with how I was sitting."


Kiselev Ukrainian propagandist LOL, do you really think everyone's an idiot here.

You are already acting at the level of instincts, not reason. I even specifically indicated the name and surname of the journalist Yevgeny Kiselev, you apparently still confused him with Dmitry Kiselev. Yevgeny Kiselyov is a journalist in Ukraine who moved there from Russia. You do not even have a superficial knowledge of Russian-Ukrainian relations, but you still climb everywhere to criticize. But this is nothing, the main thing is that something is deposited in your head.

Find 10 differences


Right. Bring up Strelkov while you're at it. Some people not being in jail doesn't negate the fact that an ordinary person can be beaten, jailed, fined, and possibly have criminal charges filed for a solitary "protest", which is technically legal but denied by all this "discreditation" bullshit.

Tell me, in the United States and European countries, there are no such examples in relation to protesters? What is Julian Assange sitting for, can you answer?

Is this a war or a special operation

Simple question: is there war in Ukraine, or "special operation"?

This is a proxy war between Russia and NATO with the help of manpower in the form of Ukrainian soldiers. Evidence links: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Russian troops near Kyiv

I was talking about the first month. Which also included a hasty retreat from Kyiv.

Show me at least one quote from the Russian President, his ministers or the Russian General Staff that Russian troops were going to capture Kyiv. This news was trumpeted by the Western media, and then they themselves denied it, presenting it as an "unsuccessful plan of the Kremlin."
It's the same as publishing a fake everywhere that American astronauts are going to land on Mars next month, and then a month later also say that American astronauts failed to achieve their goals.
Russian troops launched a military group of about 15,000 people near Kyiv to contain the Kyiv troops so that they would not go for reinforcements to the eastern part. Russian troops were stationed there until, as a result of negotiations in Istanbul on March 29, 2022, a decision was made to remove the Russian group from that direction. It was after the negotiations that the Russian troops gone from the Kyiv region, which was then declared as "a great victory" for the Ukrainian military. By the way, how are the Ukrainian bayraktars doing there, about whom you were so worried? Something little news about them lately.

Conquered territories

Apparently taking territory is easier than actually holding it, who could have known.

How many cities were recaptured by Ukrainian troops or how many cities saw major uprisings of local residents against the Russian military?

Ukrainian nazis with flowers

Damn Ukrainian nazis not greeting Russian soldiers with flowers, is that what this is?

You don't even try to be objective.
Of course, Ukrainian Nazis do not greet the Russian army with flowers, but many locals (who are not Nazis) greet Russian soldiers quite favorably.
I must say right away that, of course, not everyone is happy, but there are those who openly welcome the Russian army. According to the Ukrainian government, these are traitors and collaborators, who, by the way, Ukrainian soldiers can execute for treason. Therefore, it is even surprising that at least someone meets Russians at all, because it is mortally dangerous. These people are very brave.
As confirmation of my words, you can watch the video of the British TV channel Sky News. Timecode 03 min 45 sec
Or you can read an article on a French news site in the last paragraph, as French journalists report the words of the inhabitants of Lysichansk:
"We do not believe that the Russian army is firing on the city, and we wish the Russians to be victorious."
In addition, here are a couple of links for you to a video from Telegram, how Ukrainians meet Russian soldiers: 1, 2

Second language

The bullshit about not prohibiting second languages etc is laughable to non-Russians in the former USSR.

The Russian language was abolished as the state language in countries such as Ukraine and the Baltic states, but was not canceled in Kazakhstan. In Russia, there are plenty of national regions where a second state language is adopted. In Ukraine, they refused to comply with the Minsk agreements and give autonomy to the Donetsk and Lugansk republics so that their Russian-speaking residents could study, work and speak Russian.

Russian influence

There is a reason why most of Eastern Europe wants to get as far from Russian influence as possible.

What official surveys and studies do you rely on in your statements?

15-ruble manual

Not something you could possibly understand even if your belief in the benevolence of Putin and other Russian tzars is genuine, and not pasted from a 15 ruble мeтoдичкa.

About the 15-ruble manual is even funnier than about Kiselyov. In fact, it is on Ukrainian resources (which you allegedly do not need) that this term is very often used, so you gave yourself away with your ears.

Reply to paxmao

Russia will not run out of soviet era tanks and artillery, but HIMARS seem to certainly be making a difference on the ability to disrupt logistics. I do not give full credit to the British intelligence reports, but there seems to be a good chance on Ukraine actually being able to re-take the offensive, while the RF assaults seem quite stalled in the east.
This touches several of the weak points of RF and can make the war take a different perspective.

You constantly talk in this thread about the future victories of Ukraine and how clumsily the Russian army is fighting. Apparently, you are very confident in the victory of Ukraine, then I offer you a bet with the following conditions:
- if Ukrainian troops manage to recapture any of these cities before January 1, 2023: Kherson, Mariupol, Melitopol, then I will leave this forum forever.
- if the Ukrainian troops until January 1, 2023 are NOT able to recapture any of these cities: Kherson, Mariupol, Melitopol, then you will leave this forum forever.
If you're not ready for this bet, then maybe you will stop your wishful talking?

Reply to Waradlain

Found some info regarding captives slaughtered by Russia in Olenivka.

... In short: russia staged it. russia never wanted to return the Azovstal defenders to Ukraine, where they would receive a hero's welcome.

Russia was very reluctant to return the prisoners from Azovstal to Ukraine, which is why it exchanged 144 soldiers, including prisoners from Azovstal, for Russian soldiers. You are quoting some nonsense.
It amazes me that such primitive things have to be explained. Nevertheless, it is not surprising that so many people are ready to believe in the most diverse Ukrainian nonsense.

Reply to TwitchySeal

Did you miss the part where the Russia tried to take Kiev and remove the government and ended up having to retreat?

As for Kyiv, I commented in this post above.
19  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: July 30, 2022, 11:19:50 AM
Propaganda coming from the fascist Kremlin regime is hardly "facts".

About the fascist Kremlin regime is from the same opera as about corruption in Ukraine.
When a Dutch journalist asked President Zelensky about corruption in Ukraine, he reacted sharply that only those who lived in Ukraine could talk about corruption in Ukraine. Cheesy
One of the hallmarks of fascism is the rigid dictatorship of society. The devil is in the details. It is unlikely that you know that applicants for journalism at the Moscow State University, quite recently, could be denied admission due to the fact that they support Putin's policies - this is according to Russian political scientist Sergei Chernyakhovsky. In the Russian Federation there is such a university, the Higher School of Economics, and so there, the post of scientific director is occupied by Konstantin Sonin, who called for the hanging of President Putin, as well as Russian ministers Shoigu and Lavrov, and instead of prison or a fine, he was awarded a scientific award.
In Russia, the property of Ukrainian propagandists, such as Dmitry Gordon and Evgeny Kiselev, is not seized, and the property of Navalny's FBK employees is not touched, at least for now.
Evgeny Roizman, the Russian ex-Mayor of Yekaterinburg, who is constantly branding the Russian army on social networks, is not being jailed. They do not open criminal cases against many famous people (Sobchak, Shevchuk, Makarevich, Galkin, Khamatova, Bi2) who condemn the Russian army. There are many such examples. If this is totalitarianism, then some kind of ridiculous. This cannot be compared with Ukraine, especially after SBU agents admitted in March that they had killed Denis Kireev, a member of the negotiating delegation, for treason.

Except Hitler was a bit more successful at it than Putin, he was able to take Warsaw in a month... Putin managed only to destroy Mariupol in a month. The end will hopefully be the same, suicide in a bunker.

Read the latest news. Russian troops took Kherson, Melitopol, Lisichansk, Severodonetsk, the entire Luhansk region, a significant part of the Donetsk region, as well as part of the Zaporozhye and Kharkov regions.

Why is this comparison between Putin and Hitler, have you re-read the Ukrainian propaganda again? So know that Russia is a multicultural country, which, unlike Ukraine, does not prohibit second languages ​​in national areas. You're looking in the wrong direction. Modern Hitlers sit in Washington, I'm not talking about Biden, but about the American leadership as a whole, which spits on the independence and interests of other states, putting their own interests above all else. "Defenders of democracy" who have already killed 20-30 million people since WW II, that's who the real terrorists are. And hypocrites are all those who say that NATO is only for protection.

20  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: July 30, 2022, 12:54:01 AM
So... that's a good thing actually. A very small minority introduced a law that didn't pass. Are you even aware how democracy works? A hint: it's a bit different from Soviet/Putin style single-party "sieg heil" type of system.

It didn't pass, because the initiators themselves removed it. If the Zelensky government really wanted to, then this law would be approved at the snap of a finger. This law was lifted so as not to spoil the image of Ukraine in front of Western arms suppliers. And for your information, Zelensky has banned almost all opposition parties, and he said it's cool that the Nazi terrorist Stepan Bandera is the national hero of Ukraine for a certain part of Ukrainians, therefore, when you talk about the Nazis, look towards Ukraine first.

Here's a photo from western Ukraine in 1941.

Translation of the inscription
"Glory to Hitler! Glory to Bandera! Long live the independent Ukrainian state!
Long live leader Stepan Bandera! Long live Hitler!
Glory to the invincible armed forces of Germany and Ukraine! Long live Bandera!"

This is the hero of modern Ukraine Stepan Banders - Hitler's henchman, whose punishers killed tens of thousands of people in Volhynia in 1943 on a national basis.
But you, apparently because of your stubbornness, are still trying not to notice the obvious facts that Ukraine is infected with Nazism.

[...] You can talk about logic and motives when it comes to any other country except Russia. They are capable of any crazy stuff because they can and they get away with it. If in 2008 the civilized World gave a tough rebuff in response to the invasion of Georgia, you didn't even know what Crimea is.

Did Mikhailo Saakashvili, the lover of ties, tell you this tale?
What "tough rebuff" from the civilized world are you talking about if Georgia was the first to start that conflict?
Read at least the BBC, Reuters or the report of the International Commission in the end, to keep abreast of past events.

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