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361  Economy / Economics / Re: why do people agree to pay taxes? on: December 01, 2014, 10:39:48 AM
Quote
I'd prefer your "lawlessness" equally for all, instead of just for those who can afford to bribe.
Unfortunatelly for you and for majority of people, reality is not what most people wish for. It never was like that and never will be. It will be even much less in BTC-economy, because it will be even more antidemocratic than recent systems.

Err... I'm pretty sure TheButterZone is not a big fan of democracy.
362  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Getting lost in Proof of XXX on: November 30, 2014, 11:25:28 PM
I've heard of Proof of Storage too but this is an anti-DOS proposal; perhaps not what you're looking for.

I'm liking the Proof of Porn idea.  Is there a whitepaper you could link us to?
363  Economy / Speculation / Re: BITCOIN UNDER A 100 DOLLARS OR OVER A 1000 DOLLARS IN A FEW MONTHS? on: November 30, 2014, 02:41:42 PM
how much is the middle Price?

The linear middle price is 550 USD/BTC (assuming OP meant USD).  The logarithmic middle price is 316.23 USD/BTC (2.d.p).

The current price is about 380 USD/BTC so logarithmically we're closer to 1000 USD/BTC but linearly we're closer to 100 USD/BTC.  Indeed, linearly, we're currently closer to 1 USD/BTC than we are to 1000 USD/BTC.
364  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Can anyone explain this? on: November 29, 2014, 09:17:02 PM
I saw a thread that was discussing the fact that blockchain.info's node will accept certain transactions that will be rejected by other nodes and as a result the TX will never get confirmed. This could be an example of this. Someone did mention that you could get the TX confirmed by submitting the signed TX to the node of f2pool aka discuss fish or eligius

Thought I'd try this just as a learning opportunity.  I worked with the ancestor transaction I identified earlier which itself has 6, well-confirmed, seemingly innocent inputs.

Submitting either the raw transaction or the equivalent hex to eligius results in error code -22 (Error parsing or validating structure in raw format).

Perhaps the transaction is not just non-standard but out-right invalid (even if it were included in a block that block would be rejected by all the standard nodes).  Unfortunately, I know of no tool which will tell me why any given raw transaction is invalid and I lack the knowledge to work it out myself with reference to Bitcoin Core's code in a timely fashion.
365  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What is your favorite Satoshi quote? on: November 29, 2014, 06:28:59 PM
"I am not Dorian Nakamoto"

Lol is only 1 i know

Yeah.  Satoshi's not so chatty these days.
366  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What is your favorite Satoshi quote? on: November 29, 2014, 06:10:14 PM
I recall reading this back when I was just a lurker.

How long have you been working on this design Satoshi?  It seems very well thought out, not the kind of thing you just sit down and code up without doing a lot of brainstorming and discussion on it first.  Everyone has the obvious questions looking for holes in it but it is holding up well Smiley
Since 2007.  At some point I became convinced there was a way to do this without any trust required at all and couldn't resist to keep thinking about it.  Much more of the work was designing than coding.

It's stuck with me ever since.
367  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Can anyone explain this? on: November 29, 2014, 01:58:51 PM
Tracing input history I quickly ran into this transaction.  It doesn't seem to exist in my node's mempool and, when I try to add it, I get the error "64: non-canonical (code -26)".  Looking up code -26 in the source I see that this transaction doesn't conform to "network rules".  The transaction is also not listed at mempool.info and while blockr.io is happy to decode the raw-hex, it returns a general error "pushing your transaction to network".
368  Economy / Economics / Re: why do people agree to pay taxes? on: November 29, 2014, 12:18:38 PM
How would you pave the roads or build school or build hospitals genius?

Oh, yeah, a community effort... where everyone pitches what they can... oh wait a minute... Joe has a bigger farm than me, ...

Wait.  So roads, schools, and hospitals can only fathomably be created through a community effort but farms can be created and owned privately?  What is it that makes the provision of food fundamentally different from the provision of transport, education, and health care.

If your argument was true, every person would then say " Of course we need taxes, but keep people who earn as much as me out of the tax net".

Yep.  Suppose we're in the US and the median personal income is 40 000 USD/year.  Enter a politician which promises to tax the hell out of everyone with a personal income greater than 50 000 USD/year so that everyone else can enjoy free government.  We put this new policy to a vote.  56% of votes are for the policy with 44% against.  Great, now we have a new law passed in truly democratic fashion which allows the majority of people to live tax free with plenty of free government services.
369  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [2014-11-28] O'Reilly - Bitcoin's Road to Democratization lies in Decentralizat' on: November 28, 2014, 11:13:32 PM

The provocative title has little to do with the content.  Democracy is not mentioned at all.
370  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: What if a large number of miners were suddenly forced to shut down? on: November 28, 2014, 02:47:51 PM
95% of miners are suddenly offline.
Be it a new law or an EMP strike. What would happen to bitcoin?  Huh

Confirmation of transactions would take longer untill we hit the next difficulty adjustment. After that difficulty would be decreased. I am not 100% certain if there is a maximum the difficulty can change per adjustment, but I suspect there is.

There is.  The difficulty may not increase or decrease more than 4-fold.  If the hashrate drop occurs when we're more than about 400 blocks from a difficulty change and the hashrate stays down then we'll endure a few months of 8-block days (1 block every 3 hours on average) before retargeting to grind through 2 months of 45-minute blocks.

In its 6-year life Bitcoin has only once experienced a full 4-fold difficulty change.
Are you sure about the difficulty not being able to decrease by more then 75% in one adjustment? I know that one of the early adjustments almost was 4x and satoshi mentioned that it was close to the limit, however I have never seen anything regarding there being any limits as to how much the difficulty can go down.

Nice to know someone's paying attention. Smiley

Well, certainly the intent is for a difficulty change to be limited between 25% and 400%.  Here's the code in the reference client responsible for this.  Technically, a difficulty rise might ever so slightly exceed 400% due to some rounding which is done to keep block-header size down, but this won't be more than by about 1 part in 10 million and will not allow a breach of the 75%-drop limit.

Bitcoin's difficulty increased precisely 4-fold on 16th July, 2010 with block #68544.

Block #68543 has a "bits" value of 0x1c05a3f4 (470131700 expressed in hexadecimal) where block #68544's bits value is 0x1c0168fd.  The bits value is a 32-bit compact representation of the 256-bit target (the value below which a block's hash must be for it to pass the proof-of-work requirement).  The corresponding target values are:
Code:
0x0.05a3f4 * (0x100 ^ 0x1c) = 0x0000000005a3f400000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 = 92413 * 2^202
and
Code:
0x0.0168fd * (0x100 ^ 0x1c) = 0x000000000168fd00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 = 92413 * 2^200
The target dropped precisely 4-fold here.  This corresponds to a 4-fold increase in difficulty from
Code:
45.3858223410126280934500557280902037592113663662038890632270351573...
to
Code:
181.5432893640505123738002229123608150368454654648155562529081406295...
371  Economy / Web Wallets / Re: Help - I was hacked - 63.73 BTC - Blockchain.info secured by 2FA on: November 28, 2014, 02:39:37 AM
not a fake acct, anyone who knows me can verify this.

There was a backup on my computer of the wallet. So if they breached my PC somehow, they would have just needed the 10 digit password.

How much entropy was in your 10-digit password?
372  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: What if a large number of miners were suddenly forced to shut down? on: November 27, 2014, 09:21:51 PM
95% of miners are suddenly offline.
Be it a new law or an EMP strike. What would happen to bitcoin?  Huh

Confirmation of transactions would take longer untill we hit the next difficulty adjustment. After that difficulty would be decreased. I am not 100% certain if there is a maximum the difficulty can change per adjustment, but I suspect there is.

There is.  The difficulty may not increase or decrease more than 4-fold.  If the hashrate drop occurs when we're more than about 400 blocks from a difficulty change and the hashrate stays down then we'll endure a few months of 8-block days (1 block every 3 hours on average) before retargeting to grind through 2 months of 45-minute blocks.

In its 6-year life Bitcoin has only once experienced a full 4-fold difficulty change.
373  Economy / Economics / Re: why do people agree to pay taxes? on: November 27, 2014, 08:38:59 PM
It is really more about the rule of law and what is good for society as a whole. When the government imposes taxes on it's citizens, it is effectively forcing them to pay for things that is good for society as a whole.

How can we know when a thing is "good for society as a whole"?

Just try to speculate what would happen if that thing did not exist.
What would happen if there were no taxes and hence no roads were built, no police force was around, etc..

I have tried, and I've studied the writings of others that have tried.  I currently believe that, in such a world, life would be significantly better than it is now.  I reject the assumption implicit in your "and hence".
374  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Inequality on: November 27, 2014, 11:02:22 AM
Incidentally, yes wealth inequality is a problem, in that 99% of the people on the planet do 100% of the producing but only get to keep 40% of what they produce, while the other 1% that produce nothing, get to keep 60% based entirely on the luck of what family they were born into.  

So am I right in discerning that the problem for you is not in wealth disparity per se, but specifically in wealth disparity at birth?  If two people are born with equal wealth and opportunity but one works hard while the other squanders their resources then is it ok for the more productive person to become wealthier?  Is it ok for him to then afford his children a comparative advantage in wealth and opportunity?

Might it be that the root problem behind wealth inequality is in the love of one's children?
375  Economy / Economics / Re: why do people agree to pay taxes? on: November 26, 2014, 02:00:33 AM
It is really more about the rule of law and what is good for society as a whole. When the government imposes taxes on it's citizens, it is effectively forcing them to pay for things that is good for society as a whole.

How can we know when a thing is "good for society as a whole"?
376  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: CoinJoin: Bitcoin privacy for the real world on: November 23, 2014, 09:53:51 PM
Hi everybody, i have a question regarding the cascads and transaction fees.

So, in the first post it says that you can get better anonymity when you cascade your outputs.

If i have 5 BTC and find e.g. 3 People who also want to anonymize 5 BTC i can make a CoinJoin transcation tx_1 with them. The first (minor) problem is, that we have to pay transaction fees. So every praticipant have inputs with at least 5.1 BTC (0.1 BTC for fees). If we have that, we can make the transaction tx_1 where the outputs have a value of 5 BTC.
The problem that i see is, that if i want to cascade, say 3 times, i have to pay transaction fees every time.
I see two ways one could do that.

1. The transaction fees for the second transaction, which uses the output from transaction tx_1 is paid only from that output/input. So i have to find participants who want to make a CoinJoin Transaction with an Output of 4.9 BTC (5BTC - 0.1 Fee) which could be hard, or i find participants who want to make a transaction with less than 4.9 BTC. If i allow participants with lower values the rest is send to an change address of mine. But in this case i can't , in the beginning, know how much Bitcoins i have left in the output after say three cascades.
So if i want a cascade of three and at the end i want to have 5 anonymous BTCs the first Input must be 5.3 BTC -> output ist 5.2. The second Input is 5.2 BTC -> output 5.1 BTC. The third Input is 5.1 BTC -> 5.0 output.
I think it could be hard to find participants with exactly the amount of Inputs that i need. Furthermore i have to know in advance how long my cascade has to be and how much bitcoins i want in the end.

2. The transaction fees is paid by another Input.
So Alice makes transaction tx_1 with an  Input of 5.1 BTC -> output is 5.0 BTC.
The second transaction tx_2 consists of the Input with 5.0 BTC from the last transaction, and a new Input with 0.1 BTC for my fees.
Assume an attacker who can match all Bitcoin addresses to the person behind these addresses excluding the output addresses used for outputs in CoinJoin transactions.
If Alice uses an address  for the transaction fees input , which the attacker can match to Alice, the attacker knows which output of tx_1 belongs to Alice.
Why?
The attacker knows who participates in tx_1 because he knows the persons behind the inputs. The only thing he doesn't knows is, which ouput belongs to which participan. But if one output is used in a second transaction in which Alice pays the fees for, and no other input in that transaction could come from Alice, the only plausible way is, that Alice is the owner of the ouput from tx_1 which is used in tx_2. In that case the anonymity of the CoinJoin Transaction tx_1 is broken.
This even works if the fee Input comes from another CoinJoin transaction. You just have to look at the inputs of the CoinJoin transaction uses for the fee input, if one input matches an address of Alice you can be pretty sure, that the output from tx_1 also belongs to Alice.

So my question is, am i missing something, or is this really a problem when using cascades in CoinJoin. Cause i see no other option than the first case, if you want to use cascades and don't want the anonymity broken by the fees.

I hope you can unterstand what i mean.

Greetings
Duky

I think I have a rough understanding of what you're pondering.  I believe that OP has dropped transaction fees from the introduction for simplicity and from the tone it should be clear that he's primarily interested in a little extra privacy as opposed to hardened secrecy.

If we assume the hostile environment of your scenario 2 and desire regular, thorough mixing then I would first think about dropping the "all inputs/outputs should be of the same size" assumption.  Of course, we'd have to take care here not to allow varying input/output sizes to reveal too much information.  If we want regular mixing we really also ought to tackle the issue of combining outputs (always a pain).  Here's a first thought:

Inputs(5)     Outputs(110)
Party_A:1.5671 BTC1 x1 BTC
0.3894 BTC29 x0.1 BTC
0.0015 BTC25 x0.01 BTC
Party_B:1.5000 BTC33 x0.001 BTC
Party_C:0.7082 BTC22 x0.0001 BTC
0.0203 BTC
(Fee: 0.0013 BTC)

I'm afraid I lack the time to explain everything I'm thinking here but I hope this example transaction gives you an idea or two.  I'll happily try to tackle a follow-up question if you have one.
377  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The transaction fee is just ridiculous. on: November 22, 2014, 01:21:54 PM
Having a fee is a great way to avoid having to many unnecessary transactions but the miners don't need the fees to profit right now, the block reward is enough so even lower fees in average could be possible.

It's true that miners don't need the fees to profit, but then they also don't need the transactions to profit.  Indeed, it seems that the block reward presently works against "even lower fees" because a transaction included in a block increases the probability that the block will be orphaned.

Could you explain why a transaction included in a block increases the probability that the block will be orphaned?

Sure.

Currently, when a new block is found, the entire block is sent to adjacent nodes which then, in turn, pass the block to their neighbours.  Meanwhile, other miners continue to build on the previous block, likely unaware that a new block has been found.  This delay between finding a block and getting a copy to every miner is what gives rise to orphans.

Including a transaction in a block increases the size of the block.  A block full of transactions can be a thousand times larger than an empty block.  Larger blocks take longer to propagate throughout the network and so allow more time for rival blocks to inadvertently appear.

You might be interested in some rough calculations concerning this effect Gavin did a little while ago.

You might also be interested in this proposal to improve the efficiency of relaying blocks.
378  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What according to you is definition of ' Financial Freedom'? on: November 22, 2014, 12:42:33 PM
You are correct. It doesn't matter if Sallie Q American values the welfare of her cat over the life of a starving child in Sub Saharan Africa or elsewhere. But Sallie should just bear that in mind when her son little Johnny is diagnosed with leukemia. Maybe that's what it would take before she'll realize the selfishness in her way of thinking.

House pets can be special things in people's lives. I get that. But to even suggest that a dog or cat is more valuable to the world than a human being speaks volumes about you. Particularly if you are not a vegan.

Simply from your use of the terms "selfishness" and "valuable to the world", we see that the conflict here is not in my failing to rank species, but in my assertion that valuing loved ones above strangers can be ethically sound, even when multiple species are involved.  It appears that you tend towards collectivism and have little tolerance for those who do not.
379  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What according to you definition of 'freedom'? on: November 22, 2014, 01:58:31 AM
Contrary to popular American belief...little brown kids in far away places are more important than your ugly family dog...you should act like it.

Source?

I'm aware that Target Corporation was once under fire for sourcing cotton from Uzbekistan (a state which uses slavery to harvest cotton), an issue it's since taken steps to address.  I'm not finding anything similar concerning Target and Bangladesh.

Contrary to popular American belief...little brown kids in far away places are more important than your ugly family dog...you should act like it.

Importance is subjective.  An American with a dog may well care more for it than for some unknown child of a distant land.  This preference would be apparent, for example, in their spending more money on the health and comfort of the pet than on the same for the child.  This is a common ethical position and is no less valid than your own.
380  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The transaction fee is just ridiculous. on: November 21, 2014, 10:04:04 PM
Having a fee is a great way to avoid having to many unnecessary transactions but the miners don't need the fees to profit right now, the block reward is enough so even lower fees in average could be possible.

It's true that miners don't need the fees to profit, but then they also don't need the transactions to profit.  Indeed, it seems that the block reward presently works against "even lower fees" because a transaction included in a block increases the probability that the block will be orphaned.
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