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1401  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Mining accidents having caused physical damage (overheating hw, fires, etc) on: May 31, 2011, 06:50:59 AM

I'll start with one from a friend of mine (who shall remain anonymous): he lives in a place with old 120V electrical wiring. He put a rig of ~1.6kW (~13A), as measured by a kill-a-watt, on a 20A circuit for about half a day, until he started smelling smoke in his apartment, apparently coming from the wiring inside the walls. He completely stopped using this circuit, and now runs his rig on a dedicated 240V circuit. A 20A circuit is normally rated 16A for continuous loads by the National Electric Code, but that old wiring was likely defective and the insulation probably started melting.

Did you actually measure the current with the Kill-a-watt? Most my computer have a power factor of about 0.67. That means that for every 100W (833mA resistive), the actual current draw is closer to 1.24 amps. or in your example, 19.9 amps. My kill-a-watt is only rated to measure up to 15Amps, IIRC.
1402  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin distribution on: May 31, 2011, 06:01:45 AM
I also voted for option 2.

Blitzboom, you are not really thinking long-term here. The slightly skewed initial distribution is probably not the only problem with Bitcoin. IMO, we should wait for Bitcoin to fail on its own before starting Bitcoin 2.0. The distribution of bitcoin is still in its early stages. less than 1/3 of the total number of bitcoins have been "mined".

Myself, I would make Bitcoin less deflationary by not tapering off the allotment to cap the number of bitcoins. To see the effect of dropping the number of coins generated per block, we have to wait a least until the first drop within about 2 more years.

In my opinion, Bitcoin will fail because computers are not secure enough to handle a crypto-currency yet. However, when that happens, there will be a demand for a better replacement. I think crypto-currency is a good, but revolutionary idea. If we wait for Bitcoin to be in crisis before deciding what to do for Bitcoin 2.0, we can learn from the mistakes of the first Bitcoin. With Bitcoin value dropping or non-existent, you will get a lot of buy-in from organizations experienced in mining; assuming everyone can agree on prudent improvements to the protocol/allotment.

Keep in mind that no matter what you do, the early adopters will still have an advantage, even in "Bitcoin 2.0".
1403  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why doesn't the open client process txs? on: May 30, 2011, 03:26:48 PM
Yeah, but many of the machines running the client have GPU's as well.  It would be better for the network if every client ran a GPU miner by default, even at a low duty cycle like 1-3% (which could be changed in the preferences).  It would encourage uptake of the transaction client as well.  People don't really know the difference between 1 in 1000 and 1 in a 1,000,000.  If there is some chance of having free money drop into your account, that will motivate people.

With the recent attacks on mining pools, I have reversed my opinion on this. Rumor has it that many of the "DeepBit" miners don't know or care how to switch to solo mining should the need arise. The problem of users with very little knowledge is only going to get worse.

I now think that it is prudent for the "thick" client to default to 1-3% CPU/GPU usage. The clueless will provide a baseline with their "long tail" in return for possibly wining the lottery by actually processing a block. Obviously, it should be possible to disable this low CPU usage: for example, when the computer is isolated from the Internet or is running on battery power.

1404  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why BTC hasn't and wont hit the mainstream: on: May 29, 2011, 02:19:45 AM
all the bitcoin client really needs to be safe for the tech illiterate, is super simple encryption and backup of wallet.dat. I've seen so many hopeless computer users with machines that are riddled with viruses and other who get caught totally off guard by disk failures, etc.

If the user doesn't control the machine, any encryption can not be fully trusted. IMO Crypto-currency is a very long term project that will take generations. A prerequisite for a crypto-currency is trusted (proven correct) computers completely controlled by the users. I don't think this will happen in my lifetime. Since 1996, the trend has been to take control away from the users.

That said, this is an important experiment, even if we know it will ultimately fail. The lessons we learn will help craft a "real" crypto-currency once the computer industry matures.

1405  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why doesn't the open client process txs? on: May 29, 2011, 12:26:08 AM
Yeah, but many of the machines running the client have GPU's as well.  It would be better for the network if every client ran a GPU miner by default, even at a low duty cycle like 1-3% (which could be changed in the preferences).  It would encourage uptake of the transaction client as well.  People don't really know the difference between 1 in 1000 and 1 in a 1,000,000.  If there is some chance of having free money drop into your account, that will motivate people.

This can lead to a nasty surprise for those with low bandwidth caps: even if you don't do a lot of hashing, the protocol will use a lot of bandwidth if it ever really takes off.

Quote
Now we have the long tail working for us instead of mining flowing where it is most efficient (one miner, generally).

No one has implemented GPU mining in the client, but there isn't really any reason why it can't be done.

If we get to the point when GPU's are forced out by some magic hash brownie chips, we can think of something else.

If bitcoins become very popular, every world government, many large corporations, and some early adopters will be in the "mining" business. If Transaction fees become a problem, mining pools may see a resurgence just to take advantage of the "long tail" to process "free" transactions.

So your saying that the cpu's running the  client can't handle the network load...?   I had some one send me a small payment..  took like 10 minutes to see it in my client.  How is that faster than the CC network?

No, I was not saying that. I was saying that few people want to wait over a year to win the "lottery". Their CPU time can be put to other uses, or electricity can be saved by putting the machine in suspend mode.

It is faster than the CC network because apparently transactions on not reconciled until the end of the day. If a user has an account with a trusted payment processor, it can be made to appear the transaction goes through immediately, even if it takes all day to be confirmed.

The 10 minute delay is actually too short for some use cases: if you are colonizing Mars, you are too isolated to use Bitcoin.
1406  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin v2.0 on: May 29, 2011, 12:02:52 AM
I expect this currency to fail in the next 50 years. I feel computers won't be secure enough for crypto-currencies for about 6 generations (150 years). The value of bitcoins will crash if people feel their private keys are no longer secret and are being actively abused or tracked.

When the crash happens, the UN can act as a "neutral" third-party to start bitcoin 2.0. Hopefully, the second version will correct any oversights in the protocol. The "bitcoin trillionaires" would be wise to invest in computing and power generation infrastructure in order to get a head-start on this new currency as well.
1407  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why doesn't the open client process txs? on: May 28, 2011, 10:57:29 PM
Your CPU isn't as big as you think it is. Most the people "mining" are using GPUs now, which are about 1000 times faster than CPU mining. There are also people experimenting with FPGAs as well, but the cost of electricity is not yet prohibitive for GPU miners.

I think in the long term, mining will stabilize on about 50,000 entities crunching away. This works out to each "entity" winning the lottery (a Transaction block is produced every 10 minutes) once a year.

If you want to trade in Bitcoins, it is easier to purchase them.
1408  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What you going to do when your a bitcoins millionaire ? on: May 28, 2011, 02:43:12 AM
I don't have any bitcoins yet. However, if I was an early adopter, and my paper worth exceeded a Billion Dollars, I would start investing in infrastructure to preserve the integrity of Bitcoin, while at the same time getting ready to start the next cryptocurrency.

The bitcoin protocol makes an assumption: That the value of a Bitcoin is inherently limited by the cost of electricity used to generate it. What if you found a very large, largely untapped source of electricity? What if you installed a supercomputing cluster near your shiny new Gigawatt solar plant?

The only problem with this plan is that people, coporations, or government with a lot to loose may do eveything they can to shut you down. How do you find a component supplier you trust enough to build a datacenter designed to handle cryptocurrency? Even if you prove the hardware and software won't betray you, and guard the data center with a small army; you are still vulnerable to attack. A megawatt solar plant would not last long against a bombing campaign from one of the nuclear powers.

On second thought, you might want to consider something like Shipping container computers scattered around the globe.
1409  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: conjecture about proof-of-work and cryptocurrencies on: May 28, 2011, 01:59:33 AM
The job of the time-stamping server would be to assign order to transactions that is final and immutable. Instead of the current block-chain there will be a chain of transactions signed by the time-stamping server. A copy of the chain of transactions will be stored on every node. If the time-stamping server attempts to double-spend, then it will have to modify the immutable chain of transactions, and that attempt will be rejected by the network of nodes, since each node will be able to see that the server is trying to assign a different order number to a transaction it has previously signed. Once that happens, the community has to choose a new time-stamping server that is trustworthy. Since the job of the time-stamping server is easy, it would be trivial to set one up.

Anything based on the Network Time Protocol or astronomical observation won't work. What is the recourse if the "time" server says you didn't make any transactions? Elect a new server? The beauty of the the Bitcoin protocol is that a new server is chosen by lottery every time a new block chain is made. The "time stamp" is a time stamp in terms of entropy and proof of work. To falsify a past transaction takes an increasing amount of resources as time goes on. To falsify the newest block chain you have to prove your version is "better" (I have to read-read what the protocol does for competing block-chains).

Keep in mind that transactions don't have to be synchronous. For smaller transactions, people may be trusted not to double-spend even in the absence of a constant network connection.
1410  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: your faith in bitcoin on: May 28, 2011, 12:31:11 AM
None of the poll options really express how I feel about bitcoin. I feel it will become very successful, then fail in the medium term. Converting all of my USD (I live in Canada) to bitcoin is about all I want to do with it at the moment. I would not be comfortable keeping my retirement savings in Bitcions.

IMO, BitCoin will fail under the following conditions:
  • Wide-spread computer compromise; making wallets non-secret.
  • Severe government repression.
  • The latency limitations of the protocol become a problem.

I have reason to believe that all 3 may happen in my lifetime.

  • Most computers are made in one country (China) and include chips from one company (Intel). Computers are now so complex that nobody knows them from top-to-bottom. The only way to get secure computers is to either simplify the design or prove each  abstraction layer correct. The latter will take about 6 generations.
  • We have already seen this with attempts to curb copyright infringement. Domains have been seized, Europe and Australia are working to set up their own firewall modeled loosely on China's great firewall. If you read the Terms Of Service for your residential Internet connection, you will see you actually only get half an Internet connection. Though, as things stabilize, only about 2192 52596 hosts entities will be mining and processing transactions anyway (expect transaction fees when this happens).
  • Severely isolated groups of people can not process transactions. Similarly, these groups can not check with the network to prevent double-spending. The TCP time-out is about 2 minutes. As long as the protocol relies on IRC, your latency must be lower than 2 minutes (round trip time). This means that any Mars colony can not use Bitcoin. Down here on Earth, it means that the protocol can not take advantage of couriers moving data across borders. Only wallets can move across borders using a physical medium.
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