Bitcoin Forum
May 08, 2024, 07:12:06 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: [1]
1  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin - The Inheritance Problem (and the search for a reasonable solution) on: June 04, 2011, 12:44:12 AM
Isn't it straight forward?
Have a binder with your will and documentation. In the will you establish someone to be the executor of the estate and to fulfill your wishes. Keep your Bitcoin information along with the account numbers and investment information you have in there and seal it so it will be obvious if it has been opened. That way when (not if) you change your will it will all be there on that shelf and in your lawyers office for verification of accuracy.
Yes sometimes the executor does not do things correctly, but then at least there is legal recourse. If you simply hand out your password for in the event of your death and never do proper estate planning, then it doesn't matter how much digital gold you leave your descendants as they will soon hate each other. Fighting over it.

Don't forget to update instructions on how to convert it to cash as some people may prefer hard cash especially if you die within the next $10 years. The messages of people asking how to get in will be nothing compared to people asking how to get out.

2  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BitCoin Denomination Naming Conventions for Startups? on: May 30, 2011, 06:07:15 PM
I saw someone refer to a .00000001
as a Satoshi, but we seriously need real names after the Millie Coin.
After all SI notation only labels one more of the 8 decimal places we have.

.000001 is one micro coin.

otherwise I guess we have 1 - 99 satoshi
1-999 microcoins
1-9 milliescoins
1-9 centiecoins
1-9 decicoins

Maybe we need 3 more names to start at any decimal place out to 8?
3  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Negative interest loans is foolishness. on: May 30, 2011, 05:32:01 PM
My point was not to praise the virtues of debt or the need to borrow money. I just think it's only fair while commenting on the system that the future of this system not be misrepresented. The cost of borrowing money  being similar to the current systems, a lender charging negative interest rates, ease of borrowing start  up /operating capital, or ease of making a profit greater than the rate of deflation: are all misconceptions I'd rather avoid.

The need for the government to borrow money it hasn't saved for things such as wars and infrastructure is the reason even the Roman Empire practiced inflation back when America was still using the barter system.

1. So this system will never "replace" the various national currencies as no government will completely surrender this power, though it makes a good currency of exchange for those who choose to accept it.

2. Sales tax on any purchase made using Bit coins will be owed to the authority using the same conversion method used for calculating a purchase made with a foreign currency, paid in the Local currency (in my case US$) unless your government chooses to accept Bit coins.

3. Income for a business must be reported in a value for the local currency based on laws for income in a foreign currency. Any taxes on that income must be paid in the local currency (in my case US$) unless your government chooses to accept Bit coins.

4. Until Bit coins trade at a value that establishes Trillions of dollars of value available, Bit coin itself could never be the worlds reserve currency.

One strength however of Bit Coin is it already on its way to scaling well for VERY large purchases.

Last I checked there was 6,383,550 BTC in circulation, at the current exchange rate of US$8.75/1BTC is worth US$55,856,062.50 .
That means even now in theory with 20% of the currency you could make a $10 Million purchase. In fact yesterday over $5,000,000. poured through Mt Gox. With So few people with 10 Million or more in assets, it doesn't much matter at the moment for the currency.

Metamantis
4  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Negative interest loans is foolishness. on: May 30, 2011, 03:43:37 AM
Ok fine out with the chart as to why this argument that people will still be able to borrow money is insane.
Since the actual value is relative let's use an easy example.
40,000 units on a 30 year note at 5% interest if the value of money stayed steady.

In the end costs the borrower without any additional fees in units the same value as the first year,
77,301.68 units

Current inflation on average is 5% for the US $ so let's assume 5% deflation for the counter example.


40,000 units on a 30 year note at 5% interest if the value of money deflated by 5% a year.

In the end costs the borrower without any additional fees in units the same value as the first year,
171,192.35 units

40,000 units on a 30 year note at 0% interest if the value of money deflated by 5% a year.

In the end costs the borrower without any additional fees in units the same value as the first year,
88,584.91 units

That's not even as good as a 5% loan under no inflation and that is pretty much as good as it gets. If a person can save money at no risk why would they loan it at a negative interest rate. A 0% rate is still more expensive in value than the 5% loan in a non-changing economy.

So how can a family pay for medical care in an emergency? If they borrow the money you can see how even an interest free loan is worse than a 5% mortgage with their income decreasing at a regular pace if they wouldn't normally get a 5% wage increase in an inflation economy.

How would you react if your employer where negotiating the percentage of your annual pay cut? Don't worry you can still buy more loaves of bread just not as many as if you had that great wage you had 5 years ago.

5  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Negative interest loans is foolishness. on: May 30, 2011, 02:18:50 AM
What I'm saying is other people argue that it doesn't matter if the farmer makes less for his produce than it cost him to buy. As long as his money has the same value.

It does matter if he needs to borrow money to purchase the seeds.

So if he borrows 20 Bit coins to plant the seeds and makes 15 Bit coins for his harvest he still owes 20 Bit Coins plus interest, which is much more value now than it was when he borrowed the money.

Let me put this another way. If people argue that you can still give me a 30 year loan with compound interest at 5% interest, think about how much more punitive that is in a deflationary economy.

If I borrow 60,000 Bit Coins to buy a house, then I am paying back the loan for a house that is decreasing in price with a job that pays less money year after year.

If you need me to be clearer I'll make a chart for the 30 year loan showing the value.

6  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Negative interest loans is foolishness. on: May 29, 2011, 11:45:10 PM
I understand that if you add enough decimal places the amount of usable units becomes infinite.

I understand as the population grows and more users are purchasing more goods that the value of the pool of Bit Coins rises as the pool of products rises despite the quantity of Bit Coins remaining the same. This means prices in Bit Coins would decrease as the relative value of the Bit Coin rises.

This means that the growth in the value of savings in Bit Coins equals the value of deflation. While the value of earnings and property remains constant due to supply and demand.

Making a loan is taking a risk that the person will not pay you back counteracted by the reward of a profit for the loan. A person loaning money will loan it for the most reward he can within his acceptable level of risk. A person borrowing money will borrow money for the lowest he can get. This is called supply and demand.

In the inflationary situation of the US Dollar, I take a loan out to purchase a house I pay back a greater number of units of currency with less valuable currency that is projected for me to pay back the value of the home(the rate of inflation) plus some reward for the risk taken by the lender(interest and fees).

On the other side of the desk if the lender does not loan out his money he will be losing value over time(The holder of dollars is punished for doing so). So he chooses to risk his money so his money will buy the same or more when he needs to use it. This is the same formula the makes fractional reserve profitable for the banks.

Bit Coin makes people with money not want to loan it out. If I am going to lose value if I hold onto it I will take a risk to maintain or grow my money. If my money grows in value I am not tempted to loan it out.

If I can hold onto my money and it grows in value naturally without risk, then any action I take with risk will require a greater profit. that means a lender is never going to make a loan for "negative interest" because he could just hold onto his money and get better returns for less risk. This means that the amount repaid in units would never be less than the amount in units of the loan. This means that you would be paying back the loan in Bit Coins worth more than the Bit Coins you borrowed. It also means your home cannot stand as collateral for the loan as the homes value remains the same while the value of the Bit Coin increases. So your home mortgage if there is not inflation in the housing market is the same as a car loan today relative to a deflating currency (underwater from day one).

Who then is going to loan a stable value for the purchase of a decreasing value only to be paid back less value than he would have if he hadn't made the loan.

This will also decrease entrepreneurship without a large profit margin as the return on investment must be larger than the rate of deflation to justify the risk taken by the venture and the difficulty of obtaining more start up capital. 

Pages: [1]
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!