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921  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Counter Announcement to The Bitcoin Foundation on: October 04, 2012, 04:54:21 PM
You don't trust me thats fine. Obviously, you dont understand the structure and how the foundation works if you think you need to trust me at all.

That's a good one.  Roll Eyes Grin
922  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Counter Announcement to The Bitcoin Foundation on: October 03, 2012, 12:06:43 PM
Yup, I've been reading and responded at least 2-3 times on every page, so that means 150+ responses just in that thread.

I would not say its an uproar, its more like Atlas and a few haters. You will agree once you see the amount of members and donations.

Some people like Hazek actually bring up good points with certain issues in the foundation we need to work out and fix.

The haters are trollers say "ahhh foundation centralization ahh" when the smart people actually have good points and want to make it better.

So basically, your creating an announcement to ease the nervousness of the trollers...

As an official TBF hater and troller who just can utter a mere "ahhh foundation centralization ahh", I just wanted to add some art to this thread:

923  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Regarding the Bitcoin Foundation....... on: September 29, 2012, 11:05:42 AM
Remember that Bitcoin's public image is still mostly DOWN THE DRAIN, if people know it at all. Many regular people think it's either a joke, monopoly money, a scam, only used for drugs, unsecure with constant hacks etc etc etc. This foundation IS NEEDED. Anyone who doesn't think so lives under a rock in some sort of personal cryptoanarchy-fantasyland.

Disagree. Bitcoin does not need an advertising corporation. Many new products/technologies face skepticism in their early days. Nonetheless, those products/technologies that prove advantageous will prevail in the end.
924  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Regarding the Bitcoin Foundation....... on: September 29, 2012, 10:45:33 AM

There are alot of questions surrounding the foundation including fear of control. Obviously, we are a group that loves Bitcoin for the sole reason that it is ours. No government or corporation can take it from us. It's our baby, not theirs. We make the rules based on what we feel is the right choice for Bitcoin.

Many people are worried that the foundation will attempt to assert control...which is farther from the truth. In fact, the foundation has no real power over Bitcoin!

Why do we need a foundation you ask?

When I was presented with the idea for a foundation, I said "Wow, wouldn't it be great to have an organization of members that collectively can fund new projects, pay for ads, do QA for the code, be a 'go-to' place for the press, with the same message and beliefs."

Would it not be better if this organization is not owned by anyone? Where members can vote for their board members based on industry and representation?

......this is why I came on board.


Just compare the bold faced excerpts and think for yourself.

It is an outright lie claiming that TBF has no real power over Bicoin. It has the factual power to shape the future of Bitcoin.
The so called "democratic" structure is nothing else than lip service to foster acceptance by the mass. Yes, you can vote ...in two years ...if you join us (and pay).

No foundation is needed to achieve the goals stated above. Everyone can start funding for individual projects.


The belief that some bureaucratic meta body is needed to increase acceptance and stability of Bitcoin by adapting it to the existing rules of corporations and governments is ill-founded. The opposite is true: Bitcoin's inherent advantages - which are essentially non-conformist ones (decentrality, non-regulation) -  have led to its initial success and will continue to do so. Corporations and governments can (and will) gradually adapt to Bitcoin, not the other way around.

I'm sorry, but I have to repeat myself here: The Bitcoin Foundation is elitist BS.

The Bitcoin Foundation is just a security risk for the future development of Bitcoin that achieves nothing positive which could not be achieved by other means.
925  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] BDT - 3% weekly interest bond, backed by Bitdaytrade on: September 29, 2012, 09:56:36 AM
Would it be possible to move those theoretical OT discussions about other investments to a different thread?

Thank you.
926  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Foundation on: September 28, 2012, 05:28:06 PM
I'm not going to address conspiracy theories, mostly because I'm not seeing most of them because of who I've got on my ignore list.
Very good trick if u have nothing to say in ur defense! I hope that the spokesperson of "TBF" won't use it too often...

This is true. If one is truly seeking "input from the community" to help shape this then surely nobody should be on ignore if they are not being hostile?

Gavin, you are a remarkable man. You don't even bother with "conspiracy theories". That's true efficiency.

You know the true importance of "getting things done".

Lead us all!
927  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satoshi dumped Bitcoin right after Gavin announced he was going to the CIA. on: September 28, 2012, 12:57:08 PM
The amount of tinfoilhat-wearers in this forum is too damn high.

The amount of asslickers as well.

Just wanted to say the same.  Grin

It is plain dumb to ignore the abusive potential that comes from a minority-controlled central entity that proclaims to push Bitcoin forward by openly admitting that Bitcoin is safer when it adheres to the principles of governmental regulation. Even if we assume that the members of The Bitcoin Foundation-club do not originally intent such, they serve as a perfect gateway for authoritarian control of the Bitcoin project.

In addition I have a bad feeling about the way they present themselves at their club - like heros from the corporate headquarter. I know a lot of successful projects where the founders do not engage in such a personality cult.

928  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Foundation on: September 28, 2012, 12:00:03 PM
Only two years in the Bitcoin universe... few months are sufficient to severely damage Bitcoin with your elitist BS.

This kind of language is also damaging. You want to benefit Bitcoin? Be constructive, not destructive!

I feel free being destructive on things that destroy what is good.

The Bitcoin Foundation is a threat to Bitcoin. It will lead to its factual control by a central authority. That's against all which Bitcoin stands for.

But most people here seem not be willing to admit that danger.
929  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Foundation on: September 28, 2012, 11:51:48 AM
...
As a libertarian and non-Statist on the Foundation board, I think that other libertarians and non-Statists would mostly agree that a transparent organization is preferable
....

Matonis,

Didn't you object against the ban on anonymous memberships? If not, why?

Very simple: Due to this simple restriction they have a preselection of people that do not mind the establishment of a factual central authority. People who care about privacy will not join - and these are generally the most libertarian and non-conformist ones.
930  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satoshi dumped Bitcoin right after Gavin announced he was going to the CIA. on: September 28, 2012, 11:46:46 AM
(at above poster: I stole your sig Smiley )

The same.

You're welcome.  Smiley

Let's show at least the new members that not all people here are worshipping the same gods.

Bitcoin is not a institution/corporation/old pal's club!
931  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Foundation on: September 28, 2012, 11:02:56 AM

The Foundation runs itself. No one owns it. It's a registered non-profit based in DC and holds elections.

In 2 years from now, the board could be completely new. You could be on it.


Only two years in the Bitcoin universe... few months are sufficient to severely damage Bitcoin with your elitist BS.
932  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satoshi dumped Bitcoin right after Gavin announced he was going to the CIA. on: September 28, 2012, 10:58:45 AM
People, please... There is no such thing as an "official" client in an open-source project. There might be a dominant client that is more popular than the others, but surely for software to be official, it would have to be closed-source? Wink

Most of bitcoiners don't audit changes in the most popular client. Even if someone finds a backdoor and announces here, most of bitcoiners won't pay attention, they'll be listening to "The Bitcoin Foundation". That's why involvement of Gavin into "TBF" is very dangerous.

+1

This is not about theoretical possibilities - it's about the factual centralization of power to shape the future of Bitcoin.

I don't know why so many people here do not see the danger.
933  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Foundation on: September 28, 2012, 01:00:22 AM
To those ones who wanna Decentralization:

JUST start your own bitcoin foundation. don't waste your time to criticize Gavin's work.

...or we can just declare independence from this one and make sure its purported authority is not recognized. Then we can let others work as they see fit.

I don't want a foundation. I don't want power. I just want people to leave my money alone. I don't want mob rule putting a backdoor in Bitcoin.

+ 1


I just had to change my sig.
934  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Foundation on: September 28, 2012, 12:48:26 AM
The centralization of power has started - factual power.

The Bitcoin Foundation and the way it was introduced is against the core principle of Bitcoin: Decentralization.

I'm deeply dissappointed. And I'm saddened by the people cheering for their new masters.

I see a major fork coming.
935  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] BDT - 3% weekly interest bond, backed by Bitdaytrade on: September 26, 2012, 10:03:11 AM
The part that sucks is that this scammer will use this as an excuse to delay as long as possible.

That was my point. It was not helpful at all.

It is of absolutely zero relevance for the legal assessment of the Alberto case if the posting his documents was lawful or not. These are two different cases.

There is no room for excuse.

Alberto is just one letter away from criminal investigation. It's in his best interest to resolve this issue ASAP.
936  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] BDT - 3% weekly interest bond, backed by Bitdaytrade on: September 25, 2012, 09:22:48 PM
He paid a bit to Meni, and hopefully if he pays the next bit (which will be bigger) a payment to asset holders can be made.

I have no interest in this (it looked like a scam from page 1 of this thread, to me), however - this seems completely wrong headed.

meni represented the asset to investors. Investors have lost out. Meni should be doing the honorable thing here and putting himself in 2nd creditor position AFTER the bondholders. This would undoubtedly help Meni's reputational damage control effort Smiley

Just my 2 satoshis.

+1

What gives me an unpleasant feeling is that he is still not communicating on the matter in an open way...
937  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] BDT - 3% weekly interest bond, backed by Bitdaytrade on: September 24, 2012, 09:09:57 AM

Nefario and I are working on a repayment plan with Alberto and will post updates when there's significant progress.

Thanks to the both of you for your continuing effort! The work you are doing is vitally important since having your ID and such verified, must be made to mean something. Thanks again!

Thank you for pushing this. But please do not take promises to pay too serious - could also be typical delay tactics.

I suppose criminal prosecution will work quite well within EU member states. And the evidence in this case seems sufficient to justify prosecution ''in public interest''.
Well, let's wait a (little) bit to see if Alberto is able to resolve this...
We're approaching this in multiple ways. The best outcome by far is if Alberto voluntarily repays, litigation would be a lengthy process with an uncertain outcome.


I did not talk about litigation. I was talking about criminal prosecution.

But I agree, it would be best for Alberto to voluntarily repay. Pronto.  Grin
938  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] BDT - 3% weekly interest bond, backed by Bitdaytrade on: September 21, 2012, 09:47:03 PM
Nefario and I are working on a repayment plan with Alberto and will post updates when there's significant progress.

Thanks to the both of you for your continuing effort! The work you are doing is vitally important since having your ID and such verified, must be made to mean something. Thanks again!

Thank you for pushing this. But please do not take promises to pay too serious - could also be typical delay tactics.

I suppose criminal prosecution will work quite well within EU member states. And the evidence in this case seems sufficient to justify prosecution ''in public interest''.
Well, let's wait a (little) bit to see if Alberto is able to resolve this...

939  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] BDT - 3% weekly interest bond, backed by Bitdaytrade on: September 19, 2012, 06:45:23 PM
Meni, reading your detailed explanation gives the impression that you repeatedly withheld or delayed information, which was of high importance to investors.

I don't want to start a second frontline here, but I must at least express my disapproval of your information policy.

I'm interested to see if you will take appropriate action in respect to the Alberto case.
940  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] BDT - 3% weekly interest bond, backed by Bitdaytrade on: September 13, 2012, 01:41:10 PM
The good news is that Friday's coupon of 0.036 BTC per bond was paid, including the late fees.

The bad news is that Alberto says he doesn't currently have available bitcoins, and that he will need to move some funds around and liquidate some assets before he can perform a complete buyback. This has been taking much longer than expected.

Also, Alberto says he will not be able to sustain the original contract terms of 3% weekly interest until a 120% buyback. I reminded him of the commitment he has made, but he insists that he can only repay the face value of 1 BTC per bond with no further interest. Any dividend payment made after the last one will count towards this total. The contract will be updated to reflect this. He has reneged on his original obligation and this shouldn't be taken lightly; however, I believe that if he does indeed manage to repay the face value the matter will not have been a complete disaster.

Progress towards resolving this matter has been slow, and I have made it clear to Alberto that some real progress is expected by next week, which includes more funds repaid and some clarification of the matter of withdrawals from the Bitdaytrade platform. If he fails to deliver I will have no choice but to release more information and escalate the debt collection.

Because this event is disruptive, trading of the asset has been frozen until investors can absorb the news and some stability can be obtained. If it seems justified, trade will be resumed later to allow people to freely trade according to their belief in Alberto's ability to repay.

Alberto's total debt is 5000 BTC in outstanding BDT bonds, 4000 BTC in a private loan from me and Bitdaytrade deposits in an amount which to me is currently unknown.

Also, as much as I'd like to spend much time on this issue, I am already WAY behind my schedule of preparations for the trip to London, during which I will not have internet access; any further action from me will have to wait until I get back on Wednesday.

I'm sure you are aware that Alberto's actions also affect your reputation as the guy doing the PR for the BDT fund. So I don't think it is wise to take this issue lightly and to state that your personal interests (trip to London) are more important than the interests of the people you encouraged to invest in BDT.
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