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1  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: August 02, 2018, 10:00:28 AM
GUI wallet preview.  Wallet is currently under testing (by me and others).  Expect some changes before final release.  Here is a preview of how things look now.



what does clicking on the "smart contract" button do?

Nothing yet, it is just a placeholder at the moment.
2  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: July 31, 2018, 11:55:22 AM
GUI wallet preview.  Wallet is currently under testing (by me and others).  Expect some changes before final release.  Here is a preview of how things look now.















3  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: July 24, 2018, 10:16:39 AM
It is a good question but it happened with lot of successful projects in the early days.

I can try to offer a psychological explanation.  It is a known fact from psychological testing that humans perceive a "loss" of a certain fixed cost to be more painful emotionally than the same "gain" in terms of cost.  For example, experiments show that people will expend more efforts to avoid losing a bet of a certain amount than they will in attempting to win the bet for the same amount, and in general have to be offered a higher reward to balance out the potential loss even when the odds are 50/50.  This is called "loss aversion" and if you search that term online you can find out a lot more about it.

I think what we see here is potentially a "reverse loss aversion".   In practice when faced with a project like the Dero Project people see a lot of unknowns and a high potential reward if they "get on board" but also the potential for a loss if they are wrong about "getting on board".  Worse, they fear they will be "scammed" if they get on board and it turns out those fears are right, i.e. "taken for a fool".  The potential loss here is experienced as much more painful than the potential reward for "getting it right", even though the risk/reward ratio is quite low [edit: very low]

Second, a lot of people (though not everyone) see the choice of getting on board or not as a "leap of faith"; they have to have "faith" in the underlying tech or "faith" in the developer team.  In reality this should be a purely rational decision.  You do your research, look at the evidence for the soundness of the project, and make your decision based on your evidence.  This is how George Soros and Warren Buffet made their billions; not by taking "leaps of faith".  But in reality we are emotional creatures and most of us have to see our decisions in emotional terms and experience them that way, too, which makes purely rational decision-making really (really) difficult.

So what happens to those people who see the choice as a "leap of faith" but are not prepared to make that leap, for whatever reason?  Or did make the investment but have a "loss of faith" when they read misinformation or lack of information a certain way and also see prices go down (as they have done recently) but not enough of a loss of faith to simply cut their losses and move on?  Well, some (by no means all, but a small but vocal minority) feel the "closeness" of the painful outcome of making the leap and getting it wrong, and basically express that negative emotional outcome by "FUDDING" the project, that is, by making vocal their fears as a way of offsetting them, of being "right" in at least this way.  No evidence is required for this because evidence (a part of rational decision making) is entirely beside the point.  What matters is vocalising fears and validating them by having others also start vocalising them, without paying much if any attention to evidence.

In case it is not blindingly obvious, I am not endorsing ANY of this.  I am just trying to offer a psychological explanation for a phenomenon a lot of people have been asking about.  It is logical, from this perspective, that a high potential reward, even with low risk, will increase the FUD factor.
4  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: July 16, 2018, 03:54:40 PM

The premine remaining unlocked isn't a red herring. When you say its locked and its not thats bad. When you say it'll be locked till x date and you're trying to dip into it prior to that it doesn't look good. Even if its for marketing and not his personal gain. There is absolutely zero excuse for that premine not being locked right now. He needs to start listening to others instead of astroturfing the ANN thread an purging anyone who doesn't just go along to get along. Creating a hand selected community committee is just another form of astroturfing. Its to appease the community an give the illusion that their voices matter when it clearly doesn't. Much like anytime someone brings up complaints in this ANN thread in come brand new accounts praising Dero an Captain trying to drown out any criticism. That isn't an effective long term strat as most people can see right through it.

Dero is not your traditional copy/pasta fork blockchain or big ico without any successful working product. Dero is one of the legitimate product in recent time crypto has seen. Prior to atlantis version blocktime was 2 mins and now its 12 seconds. Blocktime has reduced 10 times. Even if premine was fully locked for 4 years earlier it would open in 48/10= 4.8 months. Those who are following dero deveopment since start will keep loving dero. Earlier It was high lighted by community itself to not lock premine till block-time is finalized..

no Serena is right, it wasn't 2 min in average,but about 3 minutes, it's very easy to verify it

in 7 month (before atlantis release) it should be around 150k blocks, in fact it was less than 100k.

with 2 minutes blocks, it's 720/day: 720*30*7= 151200

What is significance of this?  Why did it happen?  I donít full understand the Serena allegation that it means coins were ďhidden minedĒ and siphoned off to an unknown wallet.  For this explanation to make sense, there would have to be other evidence.  As it stands, it means emission curve is lower, thatís all.  What is the other evidence concerning this issue?  What is Captís statement about it (if any)?

but now the emission is higher than before, not the opposite

So what exactly is the issue here, then?  Perhaps that is as intended, to compensate for the lower emission rate before?  I have read again, and more carefully and slowly than before, Serena and Mojoís Medium article.  It is clear to me that they have only presented partial information as to what went wrong in the relationship between them and Capt.  After that careful reading, I can say with some confidence that there is no actual evidence of wrongdoing on Captís part.  Sure, there is the stuff about possibly using John McAfee, and perhaps using premine on a different schedule than before, and appointing members of DCAB rather than letting the community handle that entirely themselves, and Serena seemed to react (internally) very badly to these things.  But there is not even circumstantial evidence that Capt has acted dishonestly, and certainly not the sort of evidence youíd need to conclude that Dero is a Ďscamí project, not even close.  Furthermore, it may be that Capt has his own reasons for not liking the way Serena/Mojo handled moderation, or thought they were doing things out of their remit, or any other number of things.  He hasnít commented on those, but we can assume that he has his own side of the story, completely untold here. 

The unlocking of the premine, and the combination of anon devs and no source yet released, sure these are issues as have been discussed here a lot already, but these issues were already known before Serena and Mojo let themselves loose.  The issues of block times were not raised before, but anyone might have noticed those issues earlier as the data was already there.  The single new piece of information to come out of all that was the McAfee connection.  And it isnít even certain that this is what Capt was going to do; it was just an idea he was toying with.

I have yet to collate the evidence that Serena and Mojo themselves operated a scam; I still think that is unlikely (though I would like to look at their communications, in combination with Captís, through the pumping and subsequent dumping period, to see if there is any circumstantial evidence).  The provisional conclusion I have come to so far is:

- Capt likes to run this project along his own terms and according to his own preferences, and does not run it as a community project in the way that Serena, and possibly Mojo, originally conceived of and perhaps thought they had signed up to when joining the project

- Capt is also willing to change the way things work, adapting to changing conditions, as time goes along; which S/M interpreted as ďgoing back on commitments or idealsĒ rather than flexibly changing the way the project was run to adapt to changing circumstances (e.g. the ASIC stuff and McAfee)

- Serena, and to a lesser extent Mojo, went beyond their remit in trying to control the way the project was run, according to their ideals rather than Captís preferences

- Communication between S/M and Capt started to break down as a result of this, and Capt communicated less with them the more important information of the project, and this made the frustrations of S/M worse

- It got to a point where they found the working conditions intolerable and abruptly left, causing all the mayhem we have experienced

I am not passing judgment on the way they handled this or on them as people, I am just trying to come to an objective viewpoint about what happened.  I also understand less clearly Mojoís role in all of this; it looks like he increasingly came under the spell of Serenaís thinking, but it is not clear.  As far as it goes though I think the above interpretation fits the facts as we know them.

For us as a community, there are these outstanding issues I think, in no particular order:

1. the locking of premine
2. the changing emission rates
3. the marketing with McAfee and possibly spending part of premine earlier than original stated
4. the main devs anonymity
5. the opening of source to outside audit
6. the forming of a foundation
7. adding Dero to new exchanges


Capt has issued statements on issues 4, 5, and 6.  (Personally I donít care if devs remain anonymous if all other issues are adequately dealt with, but thatís just me.)  If people are not sure to trust his statements, it would be good to go over all past statements on this thread - *his* statements and not Serenaís and Mojoís - to evaluate the likelihood of his honouring his commitments in these two regards.  Note that a significant portion of what people complained about when they complained about the project not meeting goals were based on Serena and Mojoís statements as community managers/moderators, and not Captís statements directly.  All that needs to be parsed out.

Regarding 1, 2 and 3, I think we should collectively ask him for some sort of statement on these matters.  Perhaps this is a matter for the DCAB.  Magicsmoker is active here on this thread and is a member of DCAB; perhaps he would like to comment on this?  Regarding 1, Capt has made some efforts to show that premine is intact (as of 12 July I think) but this doesnít really go far enough; a more robust method of verifying that premine is intact is needed than a dated screenshot, and also some sort of statement about the future locking of stages of the premine as we originally conceived (even if an official statement to the effect that premine will remain unlocked for whatever reasons).

Regarding 7, I think it is too early to worry about this.  We need to wait until other issues are resolved.

5  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: July 16, 2018, 03:05:14 PM

The premine remaining unlocked isn't a red herring. When you say its locked and its not thats bad. When you say it'll be locked till x date and you're trying to dip into it prior to that it doesn't look good. Even if its for marketing and not his personal gain. There is absolutely zero excuse for that premine not being locked right now. He needs to start listening to others instead of astroturfing the ANN thread an purging anyone who doesn't just go along to get along. Creating a hand selected community committee is just another form of astroturfing. Its to appease the community an give the illusion that their voices matter when it clearly doesn't. Much like anytime someone brings up complaints in this ANN thread in come brand new accounts praising Dero an Captain trying to drown out any criticism. That isn't an effective long term strat as most people can see right through it.

Dero is not your traditional copy/pasta fork blockchain or big ico without any successful working product. Dero is one of the legitimate product in recent time crypto has seen. Prior to atlantis version blocktime was 2 mins and now its 12 seconds. Blocktime has reduced 10 times. Even if premine was fully locked for 4 years earlier it would open in 48/10= 4.8 months. Those who are following dero deveopment since start will keep loving dero. Earlier It was high lighted by community itself to not lock premine till block-time is finalized..

no Serena is right, it wasn't 2 min in average,but about 3 minutes, it's very easy to verify it

in 7 month (before atlantis release) it should be around 150k blocks, in fact it was less than 100k.

with 2 minutes blocks, it's 720/day: 720*30*7= 151200

What is significance of this?  Why did it happen?  I donít full understand the Serena allegation that it means coins were ďhidden minedĒ and siphoned off to an unknown wallet.  For this explanation to make sense, there would have to be other evidence.  As it stands, it means emission curve is lower, thatís all.  What is the other evidence concerning this issue?  What is Captís statement about it (if any)?
6  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: July 13, 2018, 01:15:50 PM
Community Advisory Board was already formed, privately I believe
7  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: July 12, 2018, 09:43:37 AM

* - which CaptDero alluded to with the snarky, "let me know if you are capable to figure out something good," comment.

I wouldn't interpret that as snarky.  I don't think Capt is a native speaker of English.  Substitute "able" for "capable" and there is no tone of snarikiness IMO.  No reason for him to be snarky, either.  It's unmotivated.
8  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: June 25, 2018, 09:52:24 PM
There's a lot of FUD on here now.  I know for a fact there are many supporters of this project who understand the technical achievements and the potential, but they are choosing to stay away from here right now.  Hopefully once Atlantis is released and the doubters silenced we can return to some normalcy here, because it used to be a nice place to hang out, and it would be nice if was again.
9  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: June 25, 2018, 07:16:07 PM

When @cpmcgrat was banned a few weeks ago I sided with --Serena--, but after getting the 3rd degree from her and Mojo on Slack for I'm still not sure what, and then seeing @h0g0f0g0 was banned from Telegram, and, finally, actually witnessing the conversation that lead up to you being banned on Slack, well, I'm no longer taking the DERO teams side.

@CaptDero - you need to review the actions of Mojo and --Serena-- and then have a talk with them about proper community management. Yes, we should show your team members respect, but your team members better be damn sure we are attacking them and/or being abusive before banning us.

***

As for the decision to stick with the original CryptoNight algo for PoW, I understand the reasoning and though it took a few hours, I actually came to agree with it. What I don't agree with - and what many others seem to have a problem with, as well - is how we were very much mislead into believing Atlantis would use a new, ASIC-resistant algo, right up until the announcement that it wouldn't yesterday. Oh, sure, --Serena-- was quite cagey whenever she was asked about ASIC resistance these last few weeks, which might have been a clue there, but the way this decision appeared to occur so abruptly, and without any preface or explanation, has definitely angered many - just look at the collapse in DERO's price over the last 24 hours if you need any more of a hint. Yes, the Atlantis tech is very promising... but so was Betamax, to use one of history's most infamous examples of a superior tech getting shunted aside due to industry collaboration and marketing.

You never got banned, and while you were exceptionally rude, we simply pulled you aside and spoke with you. I'm not sure why you would say we banned you when that's factually inaccurate.

Everyone else earned their ban through being crass, disrespectful, and in some cases, a ban came from ranting for more than 10 hours straight in the various channels.

People who take their actions to the edge of what they consider polite, and try to push boundaries should not be surprised when others don't share their perceived boundaries and get banned for being rude. Anyone who has been banned has been bothering multiple people, and I made sure to let them speak for an extended period to air their grievances, but again, there comes a time when 10+ hour rants are no longer helpful.

Wait...  MagicSmoker claimed he was banned?  I'm putting the quotes back in there because I'm struggling to see where he said that.
10  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: June 12, 2018, 09:24:02 AM
I think when you are in alpha version and almost constantly producing new builds, it just slows you down keeping track of file naming versioning  Smiley

I have nothing to add, I know exactly what I'm writing, 20 years a day I'm producing a code.
I do not know exactly what you are advocating.
xxx_001, xxx_002, xxx_003 ....?
it is enough to note the working name in the description in download page
I will not participate in the wacky wars!
I write these remarks because I am interested in the project being developed in the right direction, based on personal experience.
 Smiley


Ok, fine, no problem, not trying to pick a fight.  Just trying to offer a rational explanation for observed behaviour.  I imagine the dev team are working under extreme time pressure right now and are just not doing stuff they consider non-essential.  However if you have different explanation for observed behaviour feel free to offer it.  Smiley Smiley

@pegos, you are absolutely right. As @fellestreum said is right but will definitely add in coming releases.


Actually I think it is better to keep the filenames static with these alpha builds that are updated often.

It makes it easier to update, when you know a new release is out, you just run the same command again

wget http://seeds.dero.io/testnet/dero_linux_amd64.tar.gz

(or whatever works for your version)  without needing to check the new filename and change the command possibly across multiple systems or in a script etc
11  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: June 08, 2018, 03:00:09 PM
Well kudos to Capt - a nicer chap than me  Cheesy
12  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: June 08, 2018, 02:56:02 PM
I think when you are in alpha version and almost constantly producing new builds, it just slows you down keeping track of file naming versioning  Smiley

I have nothing to add, I know exactly what I'm writing, 20 years a day I'm producing a code.
I do not know exactly what you are advocating.
xxx_001, xxx_002, xxx_003 ....?
it is enough to note the working name in the description in download page
I will not participate in the wacky wars!
I write these remarks because I am interested in the project being developed in the right direction, based on personal experience.
 Smiley


Besides which... the whole point of the testnet is that members of the community are invited to help test the network.  If you don't like the way this is being done you are free to stay away.  No-one is forcing  you to contribute.

The dev team are dealing with some pretty major issues.  To complain that they are not naming the files correctly according to some convention you like, especially when you can easily see how old the files are - they are all datestamped so verifying whether you have the latest version is as easy as checking whether a new version has been uploaded since you last checked - and especially given that the team alerts everyone when a new version is ready to be downloaded (if you are alpha testing you should be on the slack or discord testnet channels) - is maybe getting the priorities a wee bit in the wrong order...
13  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: June 08, 2018, 12:23:51 PM
I think when you are in alpha version and almost constantly producing new builds, it just slows you down keeping track of file naming versioning  Smiley

I have nothing to add, I know exactly what I'm writing, 20 years a day I'm producing a code.
I do not know exactly what you are advocating.
xxx_001, xxx_002, xxx_003 ....?
it is enough to note the working name in the description in download page
I will not participate in the wacky wars!
I write these remarks because I am interested in the project being developed in the right direction, based on personal experience.
 Smiley


Ok, fine, no problem, not trying to pick a fight.  Just trying to offer a rational explanation for observed behaviour.  I imagine the dev team are working under extreme time pressure right now and are just not doing stuff they consider non-essential.  However if you have different explanation for observed behaviour feel free to offer it.  Smiley Smiley
14  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: June 08, 2018, 10:11:13 AM
please update your testnet daemons to the latest version from here: http://seeds.dero.io/testnet/ this update just came out

bothers me, that versions are not numbered, there is a terrible mess ...
synchronization is really much faster than yesterday!


Everything is version-ed internally. Use version cmd/syncinfo cmd in testnet daemon to see versions.

in programming has always been a good habit of numbering a version, whether it be a test or a sharp script.
 Huh

In any case, the test-net runs without any problems, occasionally disrupts system time ...
I miss the time stamps for more accurate analyzes!


I think when you are in alpha version and almost constantly producing new builds, it just slows you down keeping track of file naming versioning  Smiley
15  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: June 06, 2018, 10:36:18 PM

That said, your CPU is distinctly unusual and so what works/doesn't work for you might not apply to those of us with rather more pedestrian processors.


Not only that, I made a mistake.  It is a dual processor system, the L3 cache is per processor, not total, so it is 55 x 2 = 110 MB, i.e. 55 threads by the 2MB rule which is larger than the total number of threads available so 44.
16  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: June 06, 2018, 08:16:04 PM
Quick Testnet How-To For Windows

Replace <testnet address> with your address and <# of threads> to a maximum of the amount of L3 cache divided by 2; e.g. - a Ryzen 5 1600 has 16MB L3 cache so max number of threads is 8 (but to preserve desktop interactivity set to 1 or 2 less threads than maximum).


I'm not sure this is good advice for all cases.  I have a 44 core machine with 55 MB of L3 cache.  Mining with 27 threads (55 / 2) I get about 62% of the hashrate I get by mining with 44 threads.  (I have turned hyperthreading off, so have not tried with 88 threads, but I doubt that would see better performance, and it could well be worse.)
17  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: June 06, 2018, 07:50:33 PM
Thanks MagicSmoker for the guide, I think people will find that very useful.

Note that the Windows way of syncing to a timeserver could cause problems.  If you find that even after checking to make sure that Windows is set to update the clock, and has (it claims) updated the clock, you still get complaints about the clock being out of sync from the daemon, come back here and we will try to solve that problem.
18  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: June 04, 2018, 05:08:50 AM
https://twitter.com/Serena_fox_dero/status/1002014863475007489

Serena tweeted this a few days ago!! Don't know why nobody realized!!

Atlantis comes out tomorrow or Tuesday!!! Load your bags or you are going to miss out!! Dero's marketcap is only 6 million!! it's going to multiply like crazy!


It's not that simple.  "Buy the rumour, sell the news."  Also, ASIC miners may choose this time to unload their bags once they realise for sure that mining is over on Dero.  So there might be increased supply.  At the same time lots of Dero supporters will stop being on the markets where they have been swapping other coins they have been mining for Dero, and turn their attention back to mining Dero, so there might be reduced demand on the exchange.  So do not be surprised if there is a price drop, even a significant one.

At the same time, it could go the other way.  Lots of people may be waiting on the sidelines to buy in once they have seen the Atlantis proof of the pudding.  Times like these are times of uncertainty for markets, not certainty.  I am not making predictions, just urging caution.
19  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts on: June 01, 2018, 06:05:36 AM
What's with that earlier quote that Inlite brought up though Serena:

"Our devs even built an asic-resistant algo generator that can produce hundreds of new algos/second."

In retrospect it seems like it was at least an odd thing to have said, and isn't a statement you're currently holding to.  Seems like it needs a bit of explanation.  From my understanding, there are two possibilities:

(1)  There is/was an algo generator that could change the algo as often as you like - but each change would still require a daemon update and a soft fork.  Basically it plays with some parameters and the new algo is fairly trivially different from the old one, but this change was at the time thought to be enough to throw ASICs off the network until a new hardware update of the ASIC (new ASIC) was developed.

(2)  The algo referred to is a POW algo that could change itself hundreds of times a second and would in some way be self-replicating and ASIC resistance without needing any daemon updates or forks

My impression is that (2) seems like science fiction and can't be what you meant.

That leaves (1).  Producing a new algo that differ from the old by just a few different parameters isn't really producing a new algo so that is stretching the facts a bit, and in any case, ASIC mining is more sophisticated than you then realised and/or has become more sophisticated, and you now realise that these kinds of trivial changes are not sufficient to build ASIC resistance anyway, since ASICs can be built to accommodate them.  Given that the new algo (Atlantis / Dero-DAG) is new and therefore there will be no ASIC for it for a while at least, you want to just wait to do more research on this before making further commitments.  But the new algo is not inherently ASIC resistant; there is nothing about it that will make it particularly difficult for bitmain to develop a new ASIC for it given a bit of time, just as they have done for other CN algos.  Therefore you don't (any more) claim native ASIC resistance, but you are open to doing this going forward, if it proves technically possible.

Comments?

20  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][BCL] bitcoinClean - the first eco-friendly cryptocurrency on: May 30, 2018, 09:01:45 AM
What's to stop the network from becoming infiltrated by "bad actors" who upvote each other even though they are producing energy from coal?
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