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821  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: February 27, 2014, 07:08:58 PM
I'll try again...

Would one solution be to have a sequence of nodes, where the next 'n' forging nodes are always known not necessarily in parallel but in close sequence, so node 1 identifies node 2 and node 2 identifies node 3 (based on 1 & 2), node 3 identifies 4 (based on 1,2,3), this would create a forging mesh within the network and clients could choose which node to send to based on latency and forging window. (mobile networks and phones do something like this all the time - yes I know about dropped calls its not perfect!)

The choice of node not just based on the current params but also its awareness of the network topography would mean a continual distribution of nodes resulting in statistically a node being close in latency and forging window to a client that wanted to transact...

Depending on the capacity required the nodes would seek an optimum connection with other nodes to achieve that capacity, also if the network can advertise its current processing capacity based on its current demand and ask for more nodes who might be sleeping because not needed before.

You don't have to deploy static network models like hub/spoke or regional or whatever...

Normally people think the a system is stronger than any one single part but what I read here is how for a moment one part has to stand out from all the rest and that makes it vulnerable.

This is why we need groups of forging accounts.

ARRRGHHH NO!!! THIS IS NOT ABOUT POOLS

This is about nodes having a more intelligent relationship with other nodes rather than the primitive one we have now...
See pages back on self optimising networks.

Even in the ether or whatever the internet is there are physical relationships defining the connections between nodes, define rules for which nodes establish which connections based on physics and node behaviour and you create a strong network or mesh... add a bit more where this mesh tells the clients how to work and they know where to send their transaction to get it processed fastest... there will be some collisions but as long as there are no hotspots (which the network will adjust for anyway if it can)...

You need NXT in a node to make it a strong node (aka pools) but this is about creating a strong and responsive network of nodes.
822  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: February 27, 2014, 05:50:07 PM
The good news is I just got the first automated multisig successfully cross validated on all three servers and generated a properly signed transaction.

James

BAM!    Grin

jl777,

Those words are music to my eyes!  Thank you and KEEP IT COMING! 


Yay - go James....
823  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: February 27, 2014, 05:49:35 PM
I'll try again...

Would one solution be to have a sequence of nodes, where the next 'n' forging nodes are always known not necessarily in parallel but in close sequence, so node 1 identifies node 2 and node 2 identifies node 3 (based on 1 & 2), node 3 identifies 4 (based on 1,2,3), this would create a forging mesh within the network and clients could choose which node to send to based on latency and forging window. (mobile networks and phones do something like this all the time - yes I know about dropped calls its not perfect!)

The choice of node not just based on the current params but also its awareness of the network topography would mean a continual distribution of nodes resulting in statistically a node being close in latency and forging window to a client that wanted to transact...

Depending on the capacity required the nodes would seek an optimum connection with other nodes to achieve that capacity, also if the network can advertise its current processing capacity based on its current demand and ask for more nodes who might be sleeping because not needed before.

You don't have to deploy static network models like hub/spoke or regional or whatever...

Normally people think the a system is stronger than any one single part but what I read here is how for a moment one part has to stand out from all the rest and that makes it vulnerable.
824  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: February 27, 2014, 03:35:48 PM
I think if we had two phases of block creation where new transactions are queued for the next block while the hallmark servers achieve consensus on the previously queued transactions and then broadcast to all the non-hallmarked nodes, then 10 seconds is very achievable.

And once again - James goes of into "fantasy land" where real things like "network latency" don't exist.

You were told the reasons - if you just want to ignore them that's fine - but you can't change facts with statements.


Traditional transaction processors generate 1 record per account transaction and confirm it.
Existing card/ATM networks cheat because they do 'authorise' and then confirm/clear the transaction later, and they can only do this because they can reverse and everyone is identifiable.. This model has always been flawed and what is being suggested sounds like it.
The above sounds like its going in that direction by segmenting network/node functions and creating special nodes, this will end up like the above I suspect and flawed.

This is a hard problem - if it was easy to solve the bank networks would not be like they are, they were built when latency was a much bigger problem than it is today, and while its much less of a problem, I agree with CIYAM we ignore it at our peril.

Existing transaction processing systems create a transaction or a block on demand for a single transaction when it arrives, the record is linked to the account and in most systems the TPS limit (H/W not withstanding) it based the time to confirm the transaction (checks, business rules etc) by a single Transaction processor and the account (which is normally locked for the duration of a live transaction) but other than that the systems are inherently asynchronous and process as many transactions in parallel are there are processors.

There are millions of mobiles in Africa sending transactions, via GSM SMS + VPN back to servers in Europe, at over 300tps with confirmation times of less than 10s and these transactions are fully authorised and cleared, and this number is going to grow and the systems exist to service it.

In NXT as I understand it we have a record that is going to be formed whether there are transactions are not, and a single transaction processor - the node that has been chosen to forge.
At 100 tps, with one block every minute that means 6000 records in a block - or have I got that wrong?
So this node needs to confirm all the transactions in the block and then broadcast the results to the rest.
So we have all these nodes available to do work but only one of them at anyone time processes the transactions.
And all those transactions need to go to the right node irrespective of the latency from the client to the forging node.

Depends what your market is, if you never want to get into the physical retail environment - this is not an issue and you can drop it it can be handled in client software, the website takes your payment, completes the purchase and later you get final confirmation or a rejection - just like any other credit card and bitcoin!

If you want it used in shops, then when you are standing at a till, with a queue of people behind you, there needs to be a guaranteed transaction performance - this is hard and this is why the card companies technically cheat and have built the business model to ensure other people carry the liability e.g. retailer / customer.

Solving this is a combination of node, network and the ability to marshall the work, get it to the right place in the network in advance of execution and then execute it in a guaranteed timeframe - when you know the best timeframe you can achieve then communities like retail will look at it and decide whether its ok, do you need to be sub-second - no, can you take minutes - no.

I can see the issue but I cannot tell you the answer - if I knew the answer I would be building it Smiley perhaps between us we will find it.
825  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 27, 2014, 02:17:01 PM
I got to be honest. I don't like this.

It's not quickly recognizable whats written on the blocks. To an outsider, this is going to be confusing - and the crypto world has enough of that as it is.

It looks more like CEM to me.

Nonetheless, i think keeping the font/style is good, especially having the E the way it is. IT just needs to be presented in a more conventional manner. We just need it eyecatching (the "E" accomplishes that) Not frustrating or confusing to understand.

You might still not like it but I agree with you so I've rotated the 'Π'
Gonna stop now - filled enough pages...
If people like the direction then a proper artist can take it over..
Was just trying to stimulate some alternative to the flat 2 D round coin like symbols and the NXT lookalikes.
I like NXT but I don't see why NEM has to look like it.

This was done within the limitations of MS Powerpoint I'm afraid as its quick - here is the file if anyone wants to take it further.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53047281/NEM.pptx

826  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 27, 2014, 02:07:06 PM
Another thought following from your out-of-the-box suggestion, is how would the text characters look if they were popped/embossed/expanded out of the box, i.e. in the same fashion as Lego pieces have their connector nubs pop out at the top?  It's a lateral thought as how to represent NEM (or ΠΞM) as the "building blocks of future crypto-transactions".

I'm not sure how to CAD that out myself, and whether it'll be "readable" though is another matter.  If it's quick to do I'd suggest it's worth a go, still using the solid shades on the sides of the characters, and white as the character face.

Top props for the fast design turnaround!

You mean something like this... Although I don't think the front M is quite right

827  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 27, 2014, 01:55:49 PM
Here are some colours...
Just in case this does gain some traction as a logo idea...

828  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 27, 2014, 01:44:26 PM
Here you go... with the  Π and Ξ
Put them in a group to see what they look like...
Done nothing with the colour
829  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 27, 2014, 01:24:37 PM
I don't normally do this kind of stuff (and probably shouldn't  Cheesy)
I'm an engineer so it probably shows that I've gone for a square 3D object...
But can we please have someone thinking out of the 'box' on this logo...

I thought this was more than a coin... so do we have to look like all the other coins that are out there...

Dude that's pretty cool. Colours arent rly my thing but the idea is very good imho.

I like this very much too - and I'm on the same thoughts with changing the colours - perhaps change the N and E to Π and Ξ as seen in some of the other logo designs?

Well if you like I can try to change the colours and find the Π and Ξ on my keyboard
What colours?
830  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 27, 2014, 11:56:05 AM
I don't normally do this kind of stuff (and probably shouldn't  Cheesy)
I'm an engineer so it probably shows that I've gone for a square 3D object...
But can we please have someone thinking out of the 'box' on this logo...

I thought this was more than a coin... so do we have to look like all the other coins that are out there...

Dude that's pretty cool. Colours arent rly my thing but the idea is very good imho.

TY very much  - it took 5 mins in powerpoint, and I gave up on the colours when I couldn't make the slidey shader thing change them Smiley
SO I'm sure the real creative people in the NEM community can some up with something a lot better...
831  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 27, 2014, 11:50:51 AM
I don't normally do this kind of stuff (and probably shouldn't  Cheesy)
I'm an engineer so it probably shows that I've gone for a square 3D object...
But can we please have someone thinking out of the 'box' on this logo...



I thought this was more than a coin... so do we have to look like all the other coins that are out there...
832  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: February 27, 2014, 11:15:45 AM

I created CIYAM Open (https://ciyam.org/open) for doing Project Management (and I hope to create its decentralised Nxt replacement via ATs in the future) and will most likely end up managing the Nxt AT project listed on it.

You are welcome to use that platform for other Nxt projects if you are interested to (I won't charge anything for that but you'll need to let me know what account to create a Project for as only an "admin" account can create Projects). Understand that it does things in BTC (although tasks for 0 BTC are not in any way being prevented and there is a USD field that can be used). If that is not deemed suitable I understand (I don't have the time to change it to work with NXT at the moment although I would be happy to add a NXT field before the USD field if that would be of benefit in the short term).

It also has a functioning (although not wonderful) Forum which gets very little use currently that you would also be welcome to use (although I won't tolerate personal insults, bullying, trolling or spamming).


+++ very community spirited, thank you and people should think about it seriously to give us a common place to look at all the NXT projects.
 
Perhaps this is something the 3 project committees can think on and decide certainly for all funded / bounty projects they can be found here.
833  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: February 27, 2014, 07:39:45 AM
Wait, mintpal aren't adding nxt? But we had the votes... I put money into that. Have they stated that they have no intention or are waiting for some kind of guidance or instruction?

I put money into it too and I've told them add it or give me my BTC back - each time I tweet them they say they are going to do it but "I aint seen nothing yet"
834  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: February 27, 2014, 01:12:22 AM
NXTio forging every day lately.

Actual Blocks Status...
* Block: 3448657319332696167 (Amount: 1.00 NXT) - Transaction: 9970323445323036321 - Confirms: 14
* Block: 13030695318873148005 (Amount: 1.00 NXT) - Transaction: 10989271715894296795 - Confirms: 1350
* Block: 3940469777859251750 (Amount: 1.00 NXT) - Transaction: 9069472074360739900 - Confirms: 1530 [CONFIRMED]

And its appearing in my NXTio summary Cheesy

835  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: February 26, 2014, 10:02:11 PM
for those of you yet to find your first block all I can say is....

836  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] NOX extends the dark side of NXT on: February 26, 2014, 05:00:29 PM
Is Noxophilia a word?

Anyway....
Here is my proof of burn...

http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=2000&tra=796246611060954871

Everything should have a dark side....

837  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: February 26, 2014, 12:24:30 AM
Reward nodes, listen to jl777, do not fuck around with forging.


+1 - but penalties and node vs node behaviour does need at least looking at for vulnerabilities.


Back to the 1st Gen/2nd Gen thing: some people have expressed the opinion that NXT should completely skip the whole idea of being a successful 1st Gen crypto (ie pay, move, store, invest) in favour of going straight to concentrating on being a 2nd Gen crypto (AE, AM, DACS, colored coins, games....etc).

Good idea but if NXT is a success as a 1st gen currency:
We will have lots of money to spend on setting up 2nd gen features/DACS.
We will have a large user base ready to invest in and adopt 2nd gen features.
We will have a much higher profile in the crypto and wider worlds.

We can't expect to just go from zero to successful 2nd gen without first succeeding as a 1st gen. I can't see it happening.....
Correct me if i'm wrong, but all other 2nd gen cryptos are either stuck in development hell or riding on the back of Bitcoin, a successful 1st gen currency.  See where I'm going with this ?

Last 1st gen vs 2nd gen point: assuming that we have 15,000 unique NXT users (number out of my head) , how many of those people are capable of doing effective development work on the 2nd gen features ?  5% ? 10% ? 20% ?
But everyone can participate in making NXT a success on the 1st gen level, simply thru marketing, encouraging adoption, and actually helping to build a 1st gen eco-system thru trading and use.

+1 If you can't demonstrate you can do the basics well (or frankly in the case of BTC A lot better!!) why would people trust you with the advanced stuff which is built on top of it.
838  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: February 25, 2014, 10:46:58 PM
DONE!

Everyone do it: https://bittrex.com/Account/Register

Invite code: "SUPPORT_NXT"

Already done 2 days ago...
839  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: February 25, 2014, 10:35:31 PM
H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y
R I C K Y J A M E S
840  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread on: February 25, 2014, 06:49:06 PM
Shameless repost, we need community members to get involved for this to be great!

nemcoin.info
Current Versions are at:
http://oddape.co/AwkwardTheme/index1.9.8.html (black theme)
and
http://oddape.co/AwkwardTheme/index1.9.7.html (blue theme)

Google Docs:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gbp1rivOTFZvtBG0_rJabUyyKbDuZjMBx9jiifBJO0c/edit?usp=sharing   (nemcoin.info proposal)

Please give me your input, I have appreciated all the suggestions so far! Do you like the black or blue theme? I prefer the blue theme as I think it is more welcoming, but the black theme would go well with ournem.com
<snip>

Reading previous posts this may not be popular...

Don't mind black or blue - what I would say is the contrast of the black really helps other features stand out and gives the page a stronger more striking feel to it...

In comparison the blue feels more average colour, a bit like Hewlett Packard corporate blue and microsoft use a blue like that quite a lot.

Nothing wrong with that... they want to be welcoming too. A DARKER Blue perhaps would give welcome and contrast?
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