781
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: jgarzik goes berzerk in #bitcoin-dev, wtf?
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on: December 01, 2012, 08:01:26 PM
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None. CERN website is true but still your statement is false and misleading... In what way my statements are false? If the Internet and the WWW are 'very, very, very, very, very, very' different, which one do you use to write on this forum? When was the last time you used gopher which is part of the Internet but is not part of the WWW? You don't understand what you are talking about. The internet and WWW are indeed very very very very very different, the same way as roots of the tree are very very very differnet from leaves of the tree. Technically speaking HTTP is only one of the top-level protocols of the Internet, and it is not even responsible for the most of the traffic ! Since you don't understand, let me show you. This is how The Internet is built: Hint: Everything below the Application layer comes from ARPANET. HTTP/WWW is completely in the Application layer. When you post a topic on this forums, it goes through multiple layers of technology which all evolved from ARPANET before it can reach the server. EDIT: I found an even better schematic: Also, here is the wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_protocol_suite#Layers_in_the_Internet_protocol_suite
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782
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: jgarzik goes berzerk in #bitcoin-dev, wtf?
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on: December 01, 2012, 07:35:17 PM
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This is not completely false... What statements are false on the CERN website? None. CERN website is true but still your statement is false and misleading since Internet was created by US Government & Military, not by CERN. Also, it seems you have no idea how the internet actually works and this may be the reason of your invalid line of reasoning.
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783
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: jgarzik goes berzerk in #bitcoin-dev, wtf?
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on: December 01, 2012, 07:08:33 PM
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You're obviously unaware of serious disadvantages of Open Source model. Why not check some articles on how HTML 5.0 came into being? You should be able to realise how easy is to manufacture consensus, which is about removing any chance for oppossition to fight back, ever.
OMG, what the hell you are talking about ? I'm starting to think you're delirious or trolling. Actually, i have perfect proof that what you said above is total crap. This topic. This very topic is the perfect example that proves that it is extremely difficult it is to manufacture consensus in the Open Source world !Look at the "Alternative currencies" board https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=37.0. Forks of the official client spring up even if there is a relative consensus. Ask yourself what would happen if there was no consensus at all ? New forks would be created every hour. There are already multiple alternative clients. Even i created a fork, because i didn't like ONE decision that the devs made. Do you seriously think that it is possible to easily manipulate "consensus" in this situation ? User always has a choice of his client. So why the hell would he choose client that is disadvantageous for him ? I see it this way: either your logic is nonexistant or you are trolling. Keep it on topic please. Thank you in advance.
I will try.
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784
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: jgarzik goes berzerk in #bitcoin-dev, wtf?
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on: December 01, 2012, 06:56:12 PM
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The Internet and the World Wide Web are two very different things. As someone who actually used the Internet before the World Wide Web existed I know, and yes the Internet was started by the US Federal Government.
Technically speaking the World Wide Web is currently 99% of the Internet This is a complete Bullshit. This is so bullshit that the stench can reach me over thousands of miles of optical fibres & UTP cables. Bittorrent, Netflix, FTP, SFTP, SSH, P2P, Bitcoin, TOR, Freenet, Gnunet, Email and many many many many many many many other protocols have nothing to do with WWW. And they do use IP protocols, which is a child of ARPANET. And i would wager if they don't contain at least 51% (if not 70%) of the total network traffic.
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785
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: jgarzik goes berzerk in #bitcoin-dev, wtf?
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on: December 01, 2012, 06:53:45 PM
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TOR project ( AND THE FREAKING INTERNET BTW) was actually started by US Government. Actually everything was started by Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. However, the 'freaking' Internet BTW began in CERN Switzerland. There at CERN the browser, the web server and the html (the hypertext) were invented. I know that most of the brainwashed US citizens think that Al Gore invented Internet, but truth is quite different: The first proposal for the World Wide Web (WWW) was made at CERN by Tim Berners-Lee in 1989, and further refined by him and Robert Cailliau in 1990. http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/about/Web-en.htmlhttp://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/about/WebStory-en.htmlThis is not completely false, but missing the topic. The IP network protocols that HTTP/WWW traffic operates on were created by US Government as ARPANET project. The first two nodes of what would become the ARPANET were interconnected between Leonard Kleinrock's Network Measurement Center at the UCLA's School of Engineering and Applied Science and Douglas Engelbart's NLS system at SRI International (SRI) in Menlo Park, California, on 29 October 1969.[11] The third site on the ARPANET was the Culler-Fried Interactive Mathematics center at the University of California at Santa Barbara, and the fourth was the University of Utah Graphics Department. In an early sign of future growth, there were already fifteen sites connected to the young ARPANET by the end of 1971.[12][13] These early years were documented in the 1972 film Computer Networks: The Heralds of Resource Sharing.
So you are incorrect. The Internet WAS started by the military. Of course then they had no idea what the project they started would become after many years. If they knew, government would scrap it and it would never see the light.
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786
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: jgarzik goes berzerk in #bitcoin-dev, wtf?
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on: December 01, 2012, 06:10:13 PM
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TOR project ( AND THE FREAKING INTERNET BTW) was actually started by US Government. So there is nothing peculiar about that. This is how it works: 1. Government creates and funds an idea in secrecy (usually for military or intelligence) 2. After the project is no longer secret, scientists of all sorts take over & develop the project 3. The project is deployed academically 4. The project is deployed comercially This is completely normal way of doing things, there are multiple examples - including TOR, The Internet and GPS.
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787
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin: the long game
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on: December 01, 2012, 06:01:31 PM
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I think you already know where you can stick "everyone can inspect the code and contribute with their code" and similar bullshits.
You have no idea what you are talking about. And also, you have no idea about how programming (and especially open source programming) works. The proper thing for somebody in your position would be to shut up and never talk again on this topic, but i seriously doubt you are smart enough to do it. This topic is turning into a serious trollfest.
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788
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin: the long game
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on: December 01, 2012, 05:08:35 PM
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It may be too late for the long game, since Iranians apparently already know about Bitcoin, and by prolonging discussion in this thread you only increase the probability that even more Iranians will get to know Bitcoin because of viral Streissand Effect which you created with your censorship act.
Let's see. What if one knew ahead of time that - the forum is full of idiot trolls
- the chat logs are watched closely by said trolls
Like I said. Chess.
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789
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: jgarzik goes berzerk in #bitcoin-dev, wtf?
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on: December 01, 2012, 05:06:06 PM
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(I don't know if you are talking to me or not, so I will answer just in case) Your suggesting bitcoin development should be done behind closed doors?
No, development can be done openly even if all devs are known only under their nicknames. IRC, Git, SSH, Email, Web forums - all of these can be accessed using TOR, I2P, Freenet, Gnunet and similiar technologies.
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790
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin: the long game
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on: December 01, 2012, 12:51:33 PM
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@jgarzikI generally agree with you on most points, however there is a logical concept you don't seem to grasp: In short, if you care about bitcoin, if you want bitcoin to survive long term, you need to play a long game.
It may be too late for the long game, since Iranians apparently already know about Bitcoin, and by prolonging discussion in this thread you only increase the probability that even more Iranians will get to know Bitcoin because of viral Streissand Effect which you created with your censorship act. So i would say the thing to do now is prepare for shit hitting the fan once Iranians start taking Bitcoin seriously and US government notices the issue. The question is not if, but when this will happen. So if you are that much afraid of US govt, perhaps you should either move to Europe or disappear from the Internet and return under different, TORified and anonymous identity, just like I2P devs did. Satoshi knew exactly what he was doing - this is why he remains anonymous.
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791
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: jgarzik goes berzerk in #bitcoin-dev, wtf?
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on: December 01, 2012, 12:38:30 PM
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Fact 1: The US Government is trying to subvert the Iranian Government
Fact 2: Much of any government's power comes from its ability to print and control currency
Fact 3: Bitcoin, to the extent that it's used instead of a national currency, removes power from governments
Conclusion 1: Perhaps the US Gov should be covertly promoting and disseminating Bitcoin in Iran. What better way to bring down the regime than to collapse its currency and empower the citizens with a tool to resist the regime monetarily?
In other words, the State Dept. should help with the Farsi translations.
This is actually GENIUS. Quite seriously. It turns whole matter around.
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792
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: jgarzik goes berzerk in #bitcoin-dev, wtf?
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on: November 30, 2012, 11:55:33 PM
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?? If they're here reading this topic wont they know about it already?
Not necessarily. Every action you take (like posting, commenting) in the Internet may lead to more people knowing about the issue. The issue spreads faster, and more people learn about it in a shorter amount of time, thus increasing probability that more people (including Iranians) will come across it. Simple logic. EDIT: I believe today it's also called " going viral". And this is what we are doing - strengthening the virus.
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793
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: jgarzik goes berzerk in #bitcoin-dev, wtf?
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on: November 30, 2012, 11:50:22 PM
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Let me repeat myself, because it seems that most of people here don't get it: It is also clear that after this topic and "Iranians start to use Bitcoin" article on Buisnessweek, there is no stopping Iranians from using Bitcoin, and hundereds of pages of posts will only make it worse by spreading the topic further into the Interwebz. ** The longer you discuss on this topic, the more Iranians will eventually start using Bitcoin** (jgarzik should not have censored the guy in the first place, but it's too late for it now) Streissand Effect is a bitch.
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794
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: jgarzik goes berzerk in #bitcoin-dev, wtf?
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on: November 30, 2012, 09:37:48 PM
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Someone stated smartly in THE Bitcoin Foundation thread that we need to separate the Bitcoin project from the USA. Now we have USA devs, working in a Washington based foundation and forums with USA moderators fearing USA laws censoring worldwide users.
+1000 And to say more, by calling it *THE* Bitcoin Foundation they only made it worse, because it's like saying "Hey, we are the CENTRAL Bitcoin Authority !". Not very smart if you don't want to be first target in case of "some" government decides that Bitcoin is illegal after all.
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795
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: jgarzik goes berzerk in #bitcoin-dev, wtf?
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on: November 30, 2012, 09:30:37 PM
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After reading this discussion, my conclusion is that it totally brings down to one thing: FEAR. It is also clear that after this topic and "Iranians start to use Bitcoin" article on Buisnessweek, there is no stopping Iranians from using Bitcoin, and hundereds of pages of posts will only make it worse by spreading the topic further into the Interwebz. So those of you (including some devs) who are afraid of US government should leave the boat now, while the matter has not become " very hot" yet, and return later (or not) under anonymous identities using networks such as TOR, I2P and Freenet. And it is highly probable that this will become hot.
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796
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: jgarzik goes berzerk in #bitcoin-dev, wtf?
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on: November 30, 2012, 08:54:27 PM
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What options do we have when governments attack the dev team? The fact that someone in the team is afraid is a genuine problem.
Yep, this might be a problem. If the core devs weren't already known, i would suggest them going the I2P-way. Some of I2P anonymous network devs are known only under psudonyms and are hiding behind the network they created. We could have the same kind of devs when it comes to Bitcoin. Many developers of I2P are known only under pseudonyms. While the previous main developer, jrandom, is currently on hiatus, others, such as zzz and Complication have continued to lead development efforts, and are assisted by numerous contributors.[1]
Perhaps, If for some reason current devs would not want (or could not) to maintain Bitcoin anymore, then some new, anonymous devs could take over, I2P - style.
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797
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Big Shots in favor of Bitcoin
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on: November 29, 2012, 10:27:49 AM
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Bitcoin is working as expected. A mass of people will slowly accept it in silence. As happened with the credit card system or the peer to peer users. Don't expect huge known figures jumping in and broadcasting their Bitcoin affinity. That is not going to happen because Bitcoin is the revolution in the economy, and the true revolution will not be televised.
+n, n->∞ Big Shots talking in favor of Bitcoin... sorry guys - not gonna happen too often.
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798
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Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: [ANNOUNCE] picocoin and libccoin -- C-based bitcoin library and client
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on: November 28, 2012, 09:28:22 AM
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First thing, i like the idea very much. One small suggestion though: Do you think you could give a distinct (and cool) name for this library? There are several now and it gets confusing. For example:
libcoin - Gronager libccoin - jgarzik libbitcoin - genjix cbitcoin - MathhewLM
How about GarzikBitcoinLib?
+1 Seriously jgarzik, these names are getting more and more confusing. How about calling it glibbitcoin, jgbitcoin or libbitcoin-jg ?
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