Bitcoin Forum
April 25, 2024, 08:37:22 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 [23] 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 »
441  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [Pushpool Web Frontend] Simplecoin v5.0 Opensource PHP/MySQL - NEW RELEASE on: December 30, 2011, 01:13:00 PM
It's coming..... the real issue isn't the source, the source is good. The issue is making it usable for the masses. Right now, 90% of the setup is undocumented database tables and fields. I'm working on beefing up the admin panel so that it isn't nearly impossible to manage and install.
Ah, I was curious about that. (Was looking for a merged mining pool frontend to go with an experimental backend I was working on a couple of months ago. There didn't seem to be any open source ones out there.)
442  Other / Off-topic / Re: 1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2) on: December 27, 2011, 02:59:01 PM
I just gotta leave this here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=52081.msg663353#msg663353

How come a guy who doubted 1GHs/20W was possible is listening(and believing) to rumours about 1GHs/10W??

Funny, indeed...
The key part there is the "ETA 6 months". The problem with BFL's original claims wasn't that 1GHs at 20W is impossible, but that it made no sense for a company to suddenly appear selling boxes that achieved it because it requires ASICs with long lead times and huge up-front costs. If you're going to be producing this kind of ASIC, it makes sense to announce it up-front in order to discourage anyone else from trying to manufacture them too and cutting into your profit margins.
443  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: No "wallet protection services" without (A and B) or C transactions on: December 24, 2011, 04:04:30 PM
Quote
Although the chain code could just be a hash of the private key, I'm thinking that it should be perhaps set to be the ECDSA signature of some nonce with some fixed k value. The reasoning for this would be that in a highly constrained environment like a microcontroller or smartcard, there might not be enough memory or ROM to implement a hash algorithm but ECDSA (or similar) signing comes for free

This is probably a bad idea. I think it might allow the calculation of the private key from the chain code, which you presumably don't want. (If you have a signature, the value of k used to make that signature, and the data being signed you can compute the private key from them. That's why it's so important that k is both randomly generated and different for each signature.)
444  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: MtGox account with $220 blocked for more than six weeks without explanation on: December 23, 2011, 10:34:29 AM
Unfortunately, we will not be able to discuss details about the account "zweiblum" on a public forum. We have left some feedback in your ticket.

I think Maged my be over-optimistic in thinking we'll get any kind of meaningful answer out of Mt Gox. In similar previous cases they've done things like make vague insinuations that the user is a criminal with no actual details given to anyone, including said user.
445  Other / Off-topic / Re: 1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2) on: December 22, 2011, 10:47:56 PM
And what is the cost of one of those chips?
No idea, they're not actually shipping yet. Obviously XC7K325T costs about $1,500 from Digikey but it's always possible the smaller chips might offer better value for money.

Edit; I also notice you guys are not including a T when speaking about the different kintex chips. Do they make one without the gtx transceiver in it?
There should probably be a T on there actually.
446  Other / Off-topic / Re: 1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2) on: December 22, 2011, 10:12:49 PM
28nm FPGA's are already avaible. Digikey yesterday have few Kintexes XC7K325 (today they gone). Board design, assembly and synthesis of current code shouldn't take more then month. But it not be economical without new code (maybe 500MH/s).
Well, I did a synthesis run ages ago using the preliminary support for the smaller XC7K70 and ISE reckoned that could hit 250 MH/s - and this was just by throwing some Verilog I already had lying around at it and using the default options. Only took about 20 minutes or so too. (This is based on post-place-and-route timing and so should hopefully be fairly realistic.) Obviously the XC7K70 isn't actually available yet, and ISE apparently tends to have problems with multiple-miner designs so this may not scale up to larger chips, but it seems reasonably promising.
447  Other / Off-topic / Re: 1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2) on: December 19, 2011, 11:16:16 AM
Even closer to reality:
- company says "we have a 1.05GHash/s, 20W box"
- you tell them there is a market for it (bitcoin mining) that they may not have first realized
- company says they'll give you that 1.05GHash/s, 20W box for it, but later finds out that their FPGA internal switching rate is so much higher for bitcoin mining (which they didn't target originally) that they have to underclock their system by 15% (down to 832MHash/s) and draw 4x the power (80W).
That's not quite right; as I understand it the reason the internal switching rate is so high is the 1.05 GHash/s of SHA-256 in itself. In theory it's inherent to this kind of high-speed hashing. (Not that there's really many uses for this sort of hash rate other than Bitcoin mining anyway...)
448  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Penalizing double spends on: December 17, 2011, 07:28:42 PM
A system such that if a miner can include multiple transactions from the same address, with the same previous_output, that would overdraw the address, the entire balance of the address is set to zero and the coins are passed back out. Maybe something like 5% to the miner who finds it, then 1% to the next 95 blocks (make it less likely for coins to passed back to attacker).
Would this incentivize miners to do tricks with fees that are harmful to the health of the network? Currently, if you don't include enough fees in a transaction for the big miners to pick it up you have to wait for the old transaction to be forgotten and resend it with the same prevouts. If miners can steal coins that are double-spent in this way, they may have an incentive to deliberately delay transactions in the hope that the sender resorts to resending with larger fees, allowing them to steal the coins.
449  Other / Off-topic / Re: 1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2) on: December 15, 2011, 12:16:09 PM
Wait, are we still on this "new company, therefore scam" shit? They have working units that have been tested (Luke-jr has one, and Inaba has tested one too), and have been open about their revised performance claims. Please, go back to your cave now.
Well, if we're being pedantic I don't think Luke-Jr actually has one yet, he just connected remotely to a BFL computer with one attached like I did. He pre-ordered one but they're obviously not actually shipping yet and presumably won't be until new units with beefier regulators come in.
450  Other / Off-topic / Re: 1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2) on: December 15, 2011, 02:21:23 AM
So I take it that your miner, for the duration of the limited test time, out performed the hashrate of the modified ufasoft miner by about 18 MHash.  Good job! Is that a fair conclusion?
Probably more like somewhere in the range of 5-20 MHash/sec and I'm not entirely confident about that. It's a bit difficult to actually estimate performance that accurately.
451  Other / Off-topic / Re: 1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2) on: December 15, 2011, 01:33:36 AM
Look up process agents...you need one to operate an incorporated entity. They are essentially a figurehead. They merely forward along any legal matters to the proper party...like, if you wanted to sue an LLC, you serve papers to their process agent. They can be absolutely anyone with a physical address in the state the LLC is incorporated in and have no link to the business other than being required to pass along paperwork to the owner. It can be the owner themselves, a friend/relative or a complete stranger working for a registration company.
That's roughtly of the impression I got, actually. It's still kind of murky, but the murkiness seems to lie partly in the way the US handles incorporation and partly in Wyoming for some reason having a register of corporations that doesn't necessarily list anyone actually involved in said corporation. (Which is really quite daft.)

Also, I managed to get remote access to a machine with a BitForce board attached for the purposes of testing my poclbm-based miner, and came to a few conclusions:
  • The board does appear to run at the (reduced) speed stated, though obviously I could actually be mining on wreckage from Roswell or something Wink
  • I'm getting the odd hash verification error, not sure if it's a bug in my code or something else
  • Either something weird in their network is mangling long polling horribly or there's a truely bizarre bug somewhere


(This is a slight overestimate - I calculate closer to 850 MHash/sec including stales due to the broken long polling, which for some reason masterpool.eu isn't showing. This roughly aligns with the performance I was told to expect.)
452  Other / Off-topic / Re: 1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2) on: December 14, 2011, 10:07:03 PM
Care to explain why it's registered under Nancy Hernandez?
It appears that Nancy Hernandez is most likely an employee of Pacific Registered Agents, Inc, the corporation acting as their registered agent in Wyoming. Slightly murky.
453  Other / Off-topic / Re: 1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2) on: December 13, 2011, 10:36:03 AM
Our prototype units consume more power than was initially expected.  As someone who has had similar experiences here pointed out, the toggle rates required for bitcoin mining are a surprise.  Simply put, our power system wasn't designed to supply that great a load so we had to tune the chips down to 832 mh/s to meet the available power.
This was actually one of the things that worried me at the time; if you didn't realise that Bitcoin mining would use so much power it seemed unlikely that you would've designed the boards with power circuitry capable of handling its power consumption. (The various Spartan-6 boards have generally been designed with regulators capable of handling the maximum possible power usage.) It may have been a good idea to be more open about the problems you were experiencing.

I actually managed to blow up a wall wart testing the 25 MHash/sec bitstream mentioned in my sig, and that was obviously a lot smaller-scale than your BitForce boards!

Late this afternoon, I was sent the latest codeset to the modified Ufasoft miner for review.  After trying to compile it again, with the same results and trying several different scenarios, I was still unable to compile the software.  I dug a little deeper into the error and consulted with BFL and we determined that the Ufasoft codebase is not 64 bit ready, and thus would not compile on my laptop.
Don't suppose anyone would be willing to give me a copy of the protocol specs and access to a box or VM with a board connected? I already have a poclbm-based FPGA mining client lying around that could almost certainly be adapted. (It does fancy things like pool failover, roll-ntime support and testing found nonces against the previous work unit as well as the current one for increased efficiency.)
454  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: X6500 Custom FPGA Miner on: December 12, 2011, 01:37:12 PM
Well, there's a software section on the website that appears to have software downloads and instructions, though I've no idea if that's the latest version and obviously don't have the hardware to actually use it.
455  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: 1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — ButterflyLabs 3rd party testing for Dummies on: December 11, 2011, 05:49:01 PM
I thought I had mentioned it, but perhaps not, I have yet to receive software source that will compile from BFL.  The one set of software I received and reviewed would not compile and I am suppose to receive a new codeset this weekend.  However, given the nature of the codeset and it's author, I'm inclined to believe that is more likely legit than not, but that does not mean I will not be reviewing it regardless.
Ah yes, I remember Luke-Jr mentioned he'd been writing mining client code for it that he thought you might be using for your test. It's unfortunate that it seems to be taking so long to get working code. (If it helps, I released some poclbm-based code a while ago that could probably be adapted to the BitForce boards with a little work, though it's hard to be sure given that they haven't released any interface specs or code. It's not a general purpose solution but...)
456  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Transaction that expires if not included in next block on: December 11, 2011, 04:23:04 PM
No. There's intentionally no way of tying transactions to blocks, because block chain reorganisations or even just blocks arriving sooner than expected would cause payments to simply disappear. Solidcoin 2 has a trusted block scheme based on trusted parties inserting transactions into the block chain and it failed exactly because transactions can't be tied to blocks. Your suggested method also opens up a whole bunch of new 51% attacks.
457  Other / Politics & Society / Re: What does it take to get a job around here? on: December 11, 2011, 04:11:14 PM
The resource is not a strawman.  It makes the point that the US is producing more graduates than ever yet its producing less science and engineering graduates than ever.  so unless there is a coming boom in the Women's Studies, Black History or Elizabethan Stitchwork industries, the US is committing economic suicide.
There are two problems with this. Firstly, not everyone would necessarily make a good scientist or engineer and not every graduate job needs that kind of employee. (Some of them would honestly be better off employing a Women's Studies or Black History graduate.) Secondly, scientists and engineers have been having trouble finding jobs.
458  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How would Bitcoin have prevented the MF Global client money going missing? on: December 11, 2011, 09:50:05 AM
Bitcoin has some wonderful features, but could it have prevented a firm like MF Global from hiding/stealing clients' money? It would seem to make it easier to do, not harder.
It wouldn't. Remember the MyBitcoin incident? I don't think they ever followed through with their promises to release more information about what happened either.
459  Other / Off-topic / Re: 1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2) on: December 09, 2011, 10:49:44 PM
I made no such conclusion.  I said the hardware does what it's designed to do - namely process SHA 256 hashes.
My entire point is that the test doesn't actually prove that, you were aware of the reason why it doesn't prove that and published a test plan with precautions designed to prevent that specific method of cheating, and you came to the conclusion that it did anyway. That's kind of unfortunate. It wouldn't matter if you'd given people enough details to draw their own conclusionsin the first place - after all, it was just a preliminary test - but the information just wasn't available to us.

1) Setup a connection to process the data
2) Remote system process the data
3) Return / receive the processed nonces

All in the roughly exact same amount of time as it would take a box hashing 4.2 billion nones should take at a given hashrate.  I suppose they could have a giant GPU farm somewhere (Say a 4 GH/s farm as a conservative estimate) that is custom programmed to break up a single data block into multiple work units and farm all of those out to the multiple GPUs to hash, aggregate that data back (from a minimum of 5 separate GPUs) and return the results... but could they do it in under 6 seconds (and in some cases 4 seconds) over a wireless or cellular link?
You can get down to a few hundred milliseconds round-trip time over 3G with a fair wind and a bit of luck, or tens of milliseconds over wireless. Depends partly on how much BFL controlled the environment that the tests were carried out in. I don't even bother polling my toy mining FPGA for results more than a few times a second; doesn't really matter that much. (Also, it's convenient in an FPGA design to keep the nonce counter rolling continuously and not bother to reset it for new work units, so any delay is likely to be lost in the noise across two trials.)

But for my money, I'm going to say it would have been far harder and far more costly to FAKE the results than it would have been to actually bring a piece of hardware that does what it's designed to do.  Not to mention, after sinking all that time and money into faking it, they are still going to have to hand over a unit to me for isolated testing at some point.
In a way that's quite odd - even though it's entirely possible to build hardware that does what they claim, they've been putting off the isolated testing time and time again and we still haven't seen evidence that it can mine at all. Admittedly it'd be rather expensive to build the hardware and require unusual technical knowledge, and scammers have been known to cut corners before, but still.
460  Other / Off-topic / Re: 1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2) on: December 09, 2011, 09:50:35 PM
But seriously, come on down to KC here and you are welcome to sit in on the next test and conduct it in a manner you think is the right way.  You conspiracy nuts can go piss up a tree at this point. I'm tired of trying to cater to the nutbag leanings that have absolutely no basis in reality in terms of time frames, business practices, or technical development.
This might possibly be a reasonable response if the "but the computer could be connecting to mining hardware elsewhere" problem was just something I came up with after the test that you didn't think of beforehand. It wasn't. It was important enough that your original test plan went to great lengths to explain why this would be impossible - obviously you knew people wouldn't believe a test that didn't block this kind of outside communication. Yet somehow you concluded that their box could actually mine shares based on a proof of concept test that didn't exclude this potential cheating, and failed to mention the change so that people could judge for themselves how reliable the test was, instead leading us all to assume that the test proved more than it actually did.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 [23] 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!