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441  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: Decentralized mining protocol standard: getblocktemplate (ASIC ready!) on: December 07, 2012, 08:06:14 AM
Bottom line is still: Kano is a clueless liar.

Luke, continued trolling can earn you a ban on the forums. Are you sure you really want that?
442  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [Announcement] Avalon ASIC Development Status [Batch #1] on: December 07, 2012, 07:52:35 AM
The BFL reps responded to one of Avalons claims...with very vague mentions of a ~unique~ workflow arrangement enabling them to do...well, the impossible. (IMO)


While I appreciate the technical prowess of the Avalon team, the fact of the matter is they simply don't have the resources or experience we have in this area.


*deep breath*
...oh shit.


are they being serious?

experience in what? delaying shit so many times?

"IT POPS POPCORN!" -- Satoru Iwata, President of Nintendo of Japan
443  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: DiabloMiner GPU Miner on: December 07, 2012, 07:32:47 AM
I'm getting an error after the latest update:  Cry

please fix it...

OS: Windows 7 x64 with latest driver and updates

Strange. What pool is this?
444  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [Announcement] Avalon ASIC Development Status [Batch #1] on: December 07, 2012, 03:04:50 AM
Hmmm..... I think doing business in this region for over 25 years, gives me just a little perspective on the business practices of the Pearl Delta.
But perhaps brush up a little 武經七書... because I got what I needed faster than I expected.

I think you have no sense of humility after doing business for 25 years in these regions that you lost the ability to talk to another person like a regular human being. I had no intention to hide who these people were, I simply uploaded the picture from my phone on-the-go and now had the chance to do a proper follow up, not to mention many of these faces are not new and often seen in public involving bitcoin.

It would be much appreciated in the future, especially when directing questions at me. Brush up on how to be a gentleman, remove any trace of prejudice and cynicism you have obtained from a past that has nothing to do with me.

Please don't try to give lecture about something you know little about,  I'm very well paid and very good at what I do.

When you have had credible death threats from 'respectable' Asian business men  and attempts to kidnap your wife, come talk to me and we can talk all you want about:
 humility/racism/prejudice/cynicism/corruption/slavery/poisoning of babies/adults for profit or anything else you think you are an expert on.

Dear Thread,

Shut the hell up or so God help me I will turn this car around.

Signed, your favorite angry neighborhood bastard mod
445  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: December 06, 2012, 10:47:21 AM
An update from the Avalon team with some remarks how ASICs are actually produced by TSMC and the likes

They have not much good to say about bASIC and BFL

This update is mainly to address the uncertainty that have been surrounding the ASIC scene recently due to the lackluster performance by our competitors. We will be walking you through our process of getting the ASIC fabricated. Unlike our competitors we are a in-house team and everyone is always on the same page.

Another update will address the actual status of our chips as we have obtained word from TSMC whom will offer us weekly updates on their website. All in all, see our arguments below regarding our competitors and wait for weekly updates directly from TSMC.

Anyhow, any of our numbers, estimates, and shipping date have not changed, just in case somebody got the wrong idea about this update.

First things first. the following Gallery is our contract with TSMC with pricing and other sensitive information removed.

Some background information on ASIC production process, before tape out, 3 day before uploading GDS, we fill out a MT form with TSMC detailing the ASIC specific information so they may understand what we are doing. The gallery is here

to put simply, to create the physical ASIC goes something like this.

sign contract -> submit GDS for review -> mask making -> wafer making -> ship to packaging company -> packaging -> shipping.
Only then can the chips be in your hands or placed on PCB for finalization.

This whole process will take 30-50 days depending on the processor node technology used, mainly due to the increasing in layer number as you go down in processor size. for example, we have 29 layers, and since TSMC is one of the big companies in fabrication, each layer take 1.2 ( normal lot ) day per layer. in addition, accordingly to friedcat, their fab is producing 4 layers every week [odd, but I guess it is possible if fab is small].

This also means while you wait for the wafer(chips) fabrication you can not do anything else, it is usually around this time you make sure you have everything else ready.

a few things to note is,

1. while this wafer making process is going, you can't cancel it, or make adjustments, and if you wish to change anything, you will have to re-run this whole work flow all over again ( the large amount of the NRE upwards of 6 digits in USD is paid when you make the MASK). so anytime, BFL mention they are waiting for chips to come e.g. next week, but if they are still making adjustments, then this is physically impossible. In addition, fabrication company don't do chip packaging, if they are expecting the chips to arrive next week that means the production is already finished and they are probably in the chip packaging company (it is usually this time you find out if your chips work or not. which can also take some time since you'll have to test each of the chips for defects.)

2. the whole chip fabrication is very mathematically predictable based on the number of layers your ASIC has and the speed which the fabrication company can produce a layer. There is no such thing as a fabrication company giving a "fuzzy" date when it comes to when the chips will come from the assembly line. The only number that can vary is the shipping time from the fabrication company to the packaging company, but even that is no more than a few days of difference, depending on the shipping method.

3.a if bASIC made an MPW to start (which is the correct way to save money, but not time). the cost to get large amount of chips during this time is astronomical, however the average size is about 50. It is unheard of for somebody to only produce 2 chips to built a prototype and now no longer have any chips left over to build another prototype.

3.b. Even after testing MWP and everything is fine, it'll take the same amount of time to produce a new MASK ( cost and everything ) then make wafers, which will take another 30 - 50 days, which I suppose is consistent with bASIC's new mid-Jan shipping date, ( but this is optimistic estimate, the regular workflow is about 2 month)

3.c. what we think that happened is bASIC has licensed a SHA256 core, the IP company has already produced demo ASICs that utilizes this core, and did some math on how many core you can placed in the chip to obtain the 14GH/s estimated hashrate, while regular SHA256 and Bitcoin's blockchain hashing algorithm is not very different but it is not something you can compare via simulation without making an actual chip, and if they made an actual chip, even if it doesn't perform up to specifications you can still demonstrate it and be world first.

the conclusion is as follows.

1. If BFL really have chips coming, then they are not making any so-to-speak "clock buffer adjustments", either that or they don't have any chips coming and have not tape-out at all, it is also entirely possible that they have not make the MASK yet either. I guess we will find out on the week of the 11th, in this month hopefully.

2. we believe bASIC has no prototype, or have any chips. Also we at Avalon have also explored the possibility of licensing an IP core, but after some in-house comparison, none of the core on the market is superior to our own, thus we eliminated that option.

Questions, Comments are welcome.

I agree with this analysis.
446  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: December 06, 2012, 06:37:12 AM
Gigavps received an updated list and Nastmining received the 1st version of its list with 98.15% of the shares accounted for

So it seems Nefario has been busy today  Grin

So funny to read this nonsense about "shares"... read up on China Law guys.

Go away from this thread, 52 years old Hong Kong troller. I'm a private equity practitioner in China and a board member of ASICMINER, we have researched the law far more deeper than your "read-up-on" troll. The legalization is totally practicable and are in our plan.

P.S. You Hong Kong guys know nothing about the mainland now, and that's why nearly Hong Kong accent now are treated as a sign of loser in the Mainland investment industry. We just know that you Hong Kong guys don't know.

I know what I forgot to get at the store! More popcorn! Shit!
447  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: Decentralized mining protocol standard: getblocktemplate (ASIC ready!) on: December 04, 2012, 05:00:36 PM
I think luke-jr must have stopped looking in that thread.
No, I just continued ignoring known trolls such as yourself.

The question is also irrelevant.

Luke, what did I tell you about trolling on the forum?
448  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: December 03, 2012, 10:09:00 AM
They are at the stage of wafer-process, which is the last one before slicing and packaging, and is the most time-consuming. They have finished 13 layers out of the total 29, and there are 16 layers to go. The speed was originally very low (1-2 layers a week), and had become quicker in recent weeks.

Friedcat, any updates? What does "had become quicker" mean? I know, you can also just rely on info provided by the foundry, but is "had become quicker" really it?? Seems similar to Nefario's schedule of providing share holder lists Smiley

Anyway, so how I see it we have this very unpredictable foundry process which will hopefully be finalized in december. What happens after that? Can you give us an estimate of how long it will take after the foundry till you can start mining?

Typically at a fab you have multiple customers having their orders processed simultaneously. Some stages of the process do not require immediate processing after the previous stage, some stages can be processed in parallel.

Also, some customers pay for faster service and cut ahead of you in line.

As far as I can tell, Friedcat is basically saying his order is getting more processing time than it was previously because its nearing completion and there are no high priority jobs ahead of him.
449  Other / Off-topic / Re: Butterfly Labs November Update (ASIC Chips are "flawed". Delays.) on: November 30, 2012, 06:42:29 PM
Yet you boldly ordered a Jalapeno, and BFL cancelled it. And yet you lent a broke-ass guy who would go mining with a 12btc graphic card he could not afford and needed a loan for, 6 coins, which he would pay back of the profits, while the fine for being late on that loan (did you ever hear from him again?) was more than he could earn with it?Huh Math, it ain't easy.
...... I also believe at the start BFL had nothing but a Idea, they pre-sold you a Idea and then built it. In normal circumstances that would be called a investment, but they spun it so it would be a "Pre-order". If BFL would have been past the "Idea" Phase and actually had some solid work done they would have been close to if not already shipped. If you do not believe me this is how BFL funded there new product do the math. ..............
What does my outside dealings have to do with this discussion? Can you not back your case with logical comments?
You should go hang out on the BFL forums with like minded Koolaid drinkers. This post is about BFL not my lending practices, but if you wanted to get into it. I lent money and I knew I was lending money, Unlike BFL who took out a loan and told you it was a pre-order.
Does anyone know the exact number of Singles and Rigs sold? I want to do some math to see about what there operating funds were.

Just another tidbit here.
Here is another thing to look at, A company in Communist China is releasing more details then a American company. Now people bitch about jobs being lost to them but then look how the U.S. Company acts and then how the Chinese company acts. Ask Avalon something and they answer. Ask BFL something and you get ridiculed.

Yeah, but ngzhang is just a single guy who isn't doing this as a business or as his job... it may turn into a job in the future, but this is still a side thing for him. Hes willing to license his designs to whoever asks for a small fee (although I don't think he can relicense the SHA256 IP core hes using for Avalon, so you'd still buy the ASICs from him but fab your own boards however you want).

Its not about US vs China, its about greed. BFL wants to become a legitimate company so hard that they're pissing off all their potential customers, but with ngzhang, people are throwing money at him because hes proven several times hes legit and delivers and has that whole "its done when its done and not a moment sooner" mentality.
450  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: DiabloMiner GPU Miner on: November 30, 2012, 12:46:06 AM
at the page
you mention that you "Add[ed] ability to add LTC and Stratum support".  Does that mean it is only the ability to add stratum in the future, or is it included in the newest release?

Only the ability. A lot of the code was not meant to be modularized, so that was a large PITA.
451  Other / Off-topic / Re: Butterfly Labs November Update (ASIC Chips are "flawed". Delays.) on: November 29, 2012, 06:18:18 AM
Maybe someone at BFL went to the Duke Nukem Forever School of Hardware Design?

Man that sucked when it came out.


Yeah, killed one of the best jokes the video game industry ever produced. Ironically, it became one of the worst jokes shortly after.
452  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: DiabloMiner GPU Miner on: November 28, 2012, 05:30:39 PM
Im getting an error with the latest update:
[11/28/12 11:53:58 AM] Started
[11/28/12 11:53:58 AM] Connecting to:
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.LinkageError: Version mismatch: jar version
 is '23', native library version is '24'
        at org.lwjgl.Sys.<clinit>(
        at org.lwjgl.opencl.CL.<clinit>(
        at com.diablominer.DiabloMiner.DeviceState.GPUHardwareType.<init>(GPUHar
        at com.diablominer.DiabloMiner.DiabloMiner.execute(

        at com.diablominer.DiabloMiner.DiabloMiner.main(

Anyone got a fix?

Delete your DiabloMiner directory and unpack the zip again, or if you're building from source delete everything in target and run mvn package again.
453  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] Diablo Insurance - Butterfly Labs BitForce SC Insurance (7,829:30,903) on: November 27, 2012, 08:11:23 PM
Hi. When do you decide fail or success ?

Its already been decided. BFL has failed to produce any SC units at all, and still claim they're coming; they have clearly failed and are in default of their obligations to their investors. As the contract/policy for this insurance stated they must produce these units by the end of Oct 31st and they did not: the fail insurance will pay out.

The problem is nefario (owner of GLBSE) refuses to release the shareholder lists to asset issuers, so I can't payout until he does.

The entire pool was 38.732 BTC, so the final payout will be 0.00125 BTC per share of fail.
454  Other / Off-topic / Re: Butterfly Labs November Update (ASIC Chips are "flawed". Delays.) on: November 27, 2012, 07:59:02 PM
meaningless bullshit removed

Here's the actual list:

1. The CEO is a convicted felon who
1.a. Is in probation/supervised release.
1.b. Is prohibited by the terms of his deal from doing a number of things BFL is doing, such as taking money from people.
1.c. Failed to disclose this; once discovered by 3rd parties he made a half-assed statement about "the mean government". Promised post with further details "over the weekend", never materialized.

This was explained away on the vague theory that while convicted "he wasn't really guilty" and while the CEO "he doesn't really have anything to do with the company".

2. BFL is a company that
2.a. Consistently made promises which were then not kept, such as to the time of delivery (blown in the past by 4 months +) and specifications of the items delivered (significantly larger power consumption).
2.b. Consistently takes money from perspective customers in exchange for products that do not actually exist. These don't constitute pre-orders, even if BFL calls them that, but loans to the company.

This was never explained other than "doing things is hard".

3. BFL PR is a guy who
3.a. Is a loudmouth just like I am, except he makes a lot less sense, rarely has a point and also lacks tits.


(And yes, my personal opinion is that dud run = bankruptcy.)

I'll quote this for the people that ignore you and boobies Smiley


-- Signed, The Male League to Promote Boobies, 301st Tit Watching Corps
455  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Block Erupter: Dedicated Mining ASIC Project (Open for Discussion) on: November 27, 2012, 05:59:27 PM
So ... who's planning a better hardware interface Smiley

I had always imagined that if ASIC boards were produced at one point, we would connect them to PCI express x1 slots.

No point in using a more expensive controller for the ASIC plus have more limited room and power availability.

Easier to just build large scale 2 or 4U boxes dedicated to the task.
456  Other / Off-topic / Re: Inaba's request on: November 24, 2012, 01:37:03 PM
I blame the Jews!  Tongue

Seriously? We're going there?
457  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Block Erupter: Dedicated Mining ASIC Project (Open for Discussion) on: November 23, 2012, 12:59:43 PM
Hey friedcat, if you give me one of these, I'll make sure DiabloMiner supports it.
458  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Block Erupter: Dedicated Mining ASIC Project (Open for Discussion) on: November 21, 2012, 10:28:37 PM
No. As bitfury demonstrated in practice, tiny hashing cores are superior to unrolled designs. He gets 300 Mh/s compared to 220-240 Mh/s for the competition, on an LX150. Some of the gains are attributable to overclocking and overvolting, but most come from its superior design.
That's because the routing really sucks on Spartan-6 FPGAs. I'm not convinced an ASIC would have the same problem.

It would, but because heat and (lack of) voltage (to prevent more heat, causing stability issues) would become much more apparent on more complex designs. Spartan 6s just make the problem seem a magnitude or two worse than it is.
459  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Block Erupter: Dedicated Mining ASIC Project (Open for Discussion) on: November 21, 2012, 07:02:30 PM
I think you're suggesting that unrolled cores are the answer. They aren't. You run into timing problems, and you also pay for that silicon to be produced no matter how sparse or packed it is. The best option seems to be iterative rolled up cores that take ~110 cycles to do a nonce, but you have ~100 times more cores.

Plus, it increases yields as the controller hardware can just test which cores work and ignore known broken ones (ie, intentionally binning parts ala modern GPU design).

I'm not familiar with the term unrolled cores... I assume it's a bastardization related to how you might unroll loop iteration on an x84 cpu?

Why there be timing problems, we'd have a relatively slow cycle time... and thus plenty of time to check and/or error correct.

Yes, its just like unrolling loop iterations, but in hardware. You have timing problems because you have one clock pulse per hash and everything needs to arrive into their stages at the right time; if you have traces that are too long or too short then stuff doesn't function correctly or you need to waste more silicon trying to properly synchronize data.

It is much easier to just keep data exactly where it needs to be and iteratively process it.
460  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] BTC-Mining on: November 21, 2012, 06:38:38 PM
Partial asset list received.

Please check this link and check if you are included and amount of shares is correct (Only the first characters of email/BTC address are shown)

PM me with confirmation of which entry you are and if entry is correct.

I know this is a partial list, but I'm not on it.
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