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81  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: May 09, 2013, 03:40:04 PM
The ASIC chips used in Avalon and AM is different - actually I remember correctly AM is using the older 110nm chips while Avalon uses the slightly newer chip at 70+-nm.

And yes, I can read Chinese for god's sake.  Tongue

90 iirc

I fail, sorry.  Tongue

You both fail Smiley

Avalon = 110nm
AM = 130nm


Well, wtf, I said 110, 130 on IRC, and every time I do everyone says Im wrong its 90 and 110. INTERNET, MAKE UP YOUR MIND.
82  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: May 09, 2013, 03:02:27 AM
The ASIC chips used in Avalon and AM is different - actually I remember correctly AM is using the older 110nm chips while Avalon uses the slightly newer chip at 70+-nm.

And yes, I can read Chinese for god's sake.  Tongue

90 iirc
83  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Diablo Mining Company [shifting gears] on: May 09, 2013, 02:45:22 AM
Just to clarify,  there is some type of restriction imposed by yochdog on share transfers of BTCMC ?   Is there some reason why these holdings cannot be distributed proportionately along with the AM shares?

Yes, he will allow me to sell them, but only to a single owner. Its not like friedcat whos happy to handle it however it needs to be.
84  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Diablo Mining Company [shifting gears] on: May 09, 2013, 01:52:39 AM
@ Diablo ..  I haven't thoroughly evaluated the info you have posted in the past few days,  but skimming it my initial reaction gives me some concern.


I don't agree with you taking the stance that BFL (thus BTCMC) is irrelevant.  (as much as that would infinitely please me being an AM shareholder..)

As well (and this ties in with our PM convo a few days ago too),  there isn't anywhere near enough information available to make a decision on whether DMC 2.0 is worth anything at all (or even what the plan really is)  and if we use DMC 1.0 as the benchmark, well..  that didn't really turn out, at least not according to the original plan anyways.  The ballzy move on the asicminer trades in the early days was much criticized but the results (somewhat, maybe?)  justified it.... but ya know,  AM was never a sure thing even though it may seem like it was / is nowadays,  so the action you chose to take is also concerning regarding future ventures..

For option 1, I personally assign some value to BTCMC, (and to a lesser extent possibly even BTC-Minging) and would be looking for my respective holdings in it as well.. 

Option 2 - I also don't completely negate the possibility of wanting to roll forward on a DMC 2.0 plan,  but I would have to understand exactly what that is..  in absence of that info,  I would be forced to go with option 1  with the caveat that something is to be done about these BTCMC shares that is agreeable by all shareholders.   

teek

   

I have not posted the DMC 2.0 plan yet. Not until the plan is finished, fully vetted by people in the industry that I trust, and the company is registered. I will tell you that the plan includes not loaning the money to outside entities, not even near-sure bets like AM, I just can't take the risk, the Bitcoin community is still too risky to invest in (and yes, before you ask, my opinion has shifted greatly on this after what happened).

I agree something needs to be done about BTCMC, but nothing can be done until BTCMC pays a dividend so I can figure out what the shares are actually worth to DMC. Unless, however, someone right now offers 0.50 BTC a share for the entire lot; I don't think the shareholders that think the shares are worth something would go for any less.

However, if you trade your DMC shares for AM shares, you have no right to the BTCMC shares.
85  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Diablo Mining Company [shifting gears] on: May 09, 2013, 12:49:28 AM
BTCMC is isn't trading, but a value of BTC0.5915 per share can be inferred from the premium DMC trades for over 1/11 AM:
0.1745 * 11 = 1.9195
1.9195 - 1.328 = BTC0.5915 implied BTCMC value.

I have 110 shares, so that's BTC6.5065 worth of BTCMC.  At present, that's $741.55!

If I trade in my DMC shares, when and how will I be compensated for the value of their BTCMC component?



If you're that worried about BTCMC value, then don't trade in. I'm not forcing anyone to do it right now until I can figure out a good way of dealing with this that everyone is happy with.
86  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Diablo Mining Company [shifting gears] on: May 08, 2013, 09:41:51 PM
A total of 7.64874425 BTC has been issued in dividends to shareholders early for 7174 shares (figure does not included nebulus' and DeLorean's share of that, but they have been paid too), and I have asked friedcat to do the AM transfer for those two.

Everyone else can resume sending me DMC shares in exchange for AM shares.
87  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Diablo Mining Company [shifting gears] on: May 08, 2013, 08:05:29 PM
Update: I am going to pay out the 8.35823326 BTC we got for 754 shares of ASICMINER out in full to 7174 shares of DMC, including to nebulus and DeLorean because I didn't get their transfers done in time. After I transfer AM shares to those two, we'll be down to 681 AM.

Everyone else, don't send me DMC shares until I process the dividend.
88  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Diablo Mining Company [shifting gears] on: May 08, 2013, 04:18:06 PM
Are you based in the UK? Nefario is/was...

No, but he said his lawyer was familiar with SEC law as well.

Quote
Edit: Also what did YOUR lawyer say?

Despite what you may think, not everybody in the US can afford to a lawyer. Its going to cost upwards of $100k to do all the legal work to open DMC 2.0 and be able to accept investors.
89  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Diablo Mining Company [shifting gears] on: May 08, 2013, 01:57:14 PM
Oh, and blaming nefario for everything that went wrong is also not ok in my opinion. Yes he made some mistakes but [...]

nefario was the one that said his lawyer said it was okay for a company to issue shares before it was legally registered. Its neither legal, nor is issuing shares after registering your company legal without going through SEC hoops. So, yes, nefario doomed DMC from the start.

Now, I could be like everyone else and just default and walk away since none of you have a legal claim you can use in court, but I'm not that kind of guy. However, I don't want DMC to continue on and on and effect DMC 2.0. The sooner all shares are settled the better.
90  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Diablo Mining Company [shifting gears] on: May 08, 2013, 03:40:41 AM
There are two share holders out of the 54 that own more than 1000 shares each, and combined you two own 49% of DMC. Please introduce yourselves to the other shareholders if you don't mind. Also, while I'm giving out statistics, only 12 of you have over 100 shares.
91  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Diablo Mining Company [shifting gears] on: May 08, 2013, 12:08:14 AM
Grr... I am not telling you not to follow regulations. I am telling you that the deal you put on the table is shit.

Let's recollect.
1) You took people's money, lost it and blamed nefario for your fuck up (for some reason all other corps are doing fine)
2) You promised to do buyback but you don't want to do that anymore because "fuck it?"
3) You ripped people of their BTCMC equity because you "feel" they are valueless
4) Your trade back is not fair because you force people to accept your rounding policy.
5) You change the rules mid-game whenever you feel like it regardless of what you put down in writing.

Now, you want to extend this sweet deal further by doing this bond thing and paying back in fiat 5 years from now when BTC will be worth way more than that.

Anyway I made you a fair offer in PM.

1) 405.34 to 680.34 BTC were still owed as of the end of April. Using a 1.1 BTC value per ASICMINER share and 246 ASICMINER shares have already been traded (our largest shareholder took choice A), an additional 270.60 BTC has been paid back. At minimum 123 and at maximum 373 shares of ASICMINER clears what was originally invested into DMC. There are still 382 ASICMINER shares, worth 420.20 BTC, left. There was between 1691 and 1966 BTC invested into DMC. That is between a 21% and 25% return on investment.

tl;dr: You made a profit, and you will continue to make a profit with ASICMINER shares.

2) I was participating in a buyback because I was hoping there could be a smooth transition from DMC 1.0 to 2.0, and there cannot be one. nefario gave out a lot of bad advice saying that he got it from his lawyer. I do not believe he had a lawyer, and I believe he acted in bad faith. We collectively pay the penalty for that.

3) I believe BTCMC has been a failure because yochdog relied on BFL units that may never arrived, and if they do they may not turn a profit by the time they arrive. There is no equity, the assets BTCMC holds are worthless (again, if they exist at all, BFL has not sufficiently proved they have the capacity to produce units), and BTCMC is not currently being traded.

4 and 5) This entire thing isn't fair, the whole 9 yards. DMC was supposed to be a company that would show off the strengths of Bitcoin, and thanks to nefario it cannot get there from here. You are getting a better deal out of it, you now can own ASICMINER shares directly and reap all of the dividend instead of half.

Also, this has been a common request to put the deal back on the table now that ASICMINER is not starting a trading platform and relying on the passthrus instead. You have been outvoted by the majority of shareholders on this one.



I think exclude DMC's shares on BTCMC, that  currently there are 10657 shares of DMC on trade.. and it is means 10657/1000. each 10.657 shares equal to 1 shares of ASICMINER, it means if all shares had agree that subscribe 11 for 1 , then total you only send out 968, and another 32 is still in your hand.. I think you did not use the dividend from MAY to buy back any shares.. this amount also another 18.367 bitcoin. to be fair enough ,this policy is just push people to alows you take assets from them...and about choice B , five years maturity time just ridiculos. I hope if you are honesty people. You should spend this dividend first to buy back some shares, until total shares become 10K in total, then give a choice which is 10 shares of DMC for 1 Shares of ASICMINER....it would be mre fair...as I really didn't see any current amount of shares had decrease yet, since last dividend.

I seriously suggest if you look how startups are invested. They frequently do not finish paying off what they owe for a significant period of time and frequently often the time they become profitable.

May has not paid a dividend yet, so no, no shares have been bought back for May yet. That will happen later this month.

Sorry my mistake,I mean the dividend from last april...I just did a calculation if I accpet either two options, I will lose money (for Choice A and for Choice B I take imprevision risk (sorry I don't like this risk)...I think I will still waiting for the answer from BTCMC...I hope they will finaly start up.... If I made final decision before 6/30 I still can convert my DMC shares into AS, is that right?

You mean AM, and yes, I've stopped the clock.
92  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Diablo Mining Company [shifting gears] on: May 07, 2013, 10:45:34 PM
Grr... I am not telling you not to follow regulations. I am telling you that the deal you put on the table is shit.

Let's recollect.
1) You took people's money, lost it and blamed nefario for your fuck up (for some reason all other corps are doing fine)
2) You promised to do buyback but you don't want to do that anymore because "fuck it?"
3) You ripped people of their BTCMC equity because you "feel" they are valueless
4) Your trade back is not fair because you force people to accept your rounding policy.
5) You change the rules mid-game whenever you feel like it regardless of what you put down in writing.

Now, you want to extend this sweet deal further by doing this bond thing and paying back in fiat 5 years from now when BTC will be worth way more than that.

Anyway I made you a fair offer in PM.

1) 405.34 to 680.34 BTC were still owed as of the end of April. Using a 1.1 BTC value per ASICMINER share and 246 ASICMINER shares have already been traded (our largest shareholder took choice A), an additional 270.60 BTC has been paid back. At minimum 123 and at maximum 373 shares of ASICMINER clears what was originally invested into DMC. There are still 382 ASICMINER shares, worth 420.20 BTC, left. There was between 1691 and 1966 BTC invested into DMC. That is between a 21% and 25% return on investment.

tl;dr: You made a profit, and you will continue to make a profit with ASICMINER shares.

2) I was participating in a buyback because I was hoping there could be a smooth transition from DMC 1.0 to 2.0, and there cannot be one. nefario gave out a lot of bad advice saying that he got it from his lawyer. I do not believe he had a lawyer, and I believe he acted in bad faith. We collectively pay the penalty for that.

3) I believe BTCMC has been a failure because yochdog relied on BFL units that may never arrived, and if they do they may not turn a profit by the time they arrive. There is no equity, the assets BTCMC holds are worthless (again, if they exist at all, BFL has not sufficiently proved they have the capacity to produce units), and BTCMC is not currently being traded.

4 and 5) This entire thing isn't fair, the whole 9 yards. DMC was supposed to be a company that would show off the strengths of Bitcoin, and thanks to nefario it cannot get there from here. You are getting a better deal out of it, you now can own ASICMINER shares directly and reap all of the dividend instead of half.

Also, this has been a common request to put the deal back on the table now that ASICMINER is not starting a trading platform and relying on the passthrus instead. You have been outvoted by the majority of shareholders on this one.



I think exclude DMC's shares on BTCMC, that  currently there are 10657 shares of DMC on trade.. and it is means 10657/1000. each 10.657 shares equal to 1 shares of ASICMINER, it means if all shares had agree that subscribe 11 for 1 , then total you only send out 968, and another 32 is still in your hand.. I think you did not use the dividend from MAY to buy back any shares.. this amount also another 18.367 bitcoin. to be fair enough ,this policy is just push people to alows you take assets from them...and about choice B , five years maturity time just ridiculos. I hope if you are honesty people. You should spend this dividend first to buy back some shares, until total shares become 10K in total, then give a choice which is 10 shares of DMC for 1 Shares of ASICMINER....it would be mre fair...as I really didn't see any current amount of shares had decrease yet, since last dividend.

I seriously suggest if you look how startups are invested. They frequently do not finish paying off what they owe for a significant period of time and frequently often the time they become profitable.

May has not paid a dividend yet, so no, no shares have been bought back for May yet. That will happen later this month.
93  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Asset Exchange Marketplace + Rewritable Options Trading on: May 07, 2013, 10:24:04 PM
Ukyo is already aware of my wishes to end DMC. Now that yochdog will allow transference of shares, I am going to consider auctioning them off.

I'm glad you are keeping Ukyo in the loop.  It's not fair that the unwise actions of his asset issuers reflect poorly on his exchange, but yours will regardless.

 Huh  Is Ukyo "already aware" that you unilaterally decided to steal DMC's 1000 BTCMC shares under the false pretext of them holding no value, despite being worth exactly 10% of Yochdog's large established mining company?

I disagree with any attempt by Diablo to assign "zero value" to DMC's holdings.

 Huh  Is Ukyo "already aware" that Yochdog, backed by facts and demonstrative evidence, disagrees with your (former, now abandoned) self-serving subjective appraisal of BTCMC's negligible worth?

 Huh  Is Ukyo "already aware" that you have now contradicted yourself (in a most spectacular and embarrassing manner) by entertaining the idea of holding an auction for shares you previously insisted on declaring defunct, upon suddenly realizing (when pointed out to you) DMC owns an enormous 10% of BTCMC and not the 2% you formerly believed?

 Huh  Is Ukyo "already aware" that many DMC shareholders have already (eagerly) submitted to your abusive, unethical change in DMC's terms, losing their rightful BTCMC stake in the process

 Huh Is Ukyo "already aware" you may now auction off DMC's BTCMC shares, forcing your shareholders to bid for assets they already rightfully own?

Im pretty sure Ukyo is aware that this forum has trolls. You do realize any funds received for the sale of BTCMC would be paid out as dividends, right?
94  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Diablo Mining Company [shifting gears] on: May 07, 2013, 09:59:42 PM

Dude wtf?
600 / 50000 TIMES 1000 = 12 and on... is the math

Times 1000 for per share? What are you on? Seriously, it looks like fun.

Okay... I'll do the math for you.

Debt: 600BTC
Total BTCMC: 10K
DMC holding: 1000
Total DMC: 10K

You get
600 / 10000 * 1000 / 10000 = 0.006 per DMC

I have 700 DMC shares and that makes 4.2 BTC of unrealized gains for me..

Anyway, man, I have made you a pretty good offer (I am asking 64 AM for 700 DMC). I don't want to deal with depositing anything extra into BitFunder to buy extra 4 shares to make it whole. You can have all the equity you call valueless for the price of 0.4 AM share.

As far as it's concerned the whole DMC thing ain't gonna happen. You don't have what it takes.

Er, yes, I screwed up the math. Its been a long day on the phone with various people, oh well.

I don't mind rounding up to the next whole AM share for people trading in enough of them, thats fine. You don't have to be insulting about it, however.

So, until I figure out what to do with these BTCMC shares (yochdog said he'll allow me to auction them off, but only to a single party), I'll stop the 60 day clock.
95  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] Bitcorp Mining Company - BTCMC 60+ GH/s, clear ASIC upgrade path. on: May 07, 2013, 09:50:41 PM
Wow, you've dragged your trolling into this thread too?

Why don't you want me to enquire as to Yochdog's opinion of your unflattering characterization of his mining company?

You should welcome his confirmation of the correctness of your negative evaluation of BTCMC.

Yochdog, may I buy DMC's 1000 shares now?  If not, I understand, but will you honor an agreement between Diablo and myself to transfer the shares when possible?

Yes, I will facilitate private transactions of shares between consenting parties. 

Really? So if I go run an auction selling the shares, thats totally fine with you?

You have to sell the entire lot.  I will not break down current holdings into smaller blocks.

If you run an auction, and both parties verify they accept the terms, I will transfer ownership. 

Ahh, that makes it a tad more problematic.
96  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Asset Exchange Marketplace + Rewritable Options Trading on: May 07, 2013, 09:33:07 PM
Hi Ukyo,

Unfortunately it seems we may have another scammer using your exchange.

Diablo has decided to change, suddenly and completely, the terms of his DMC asset.

He's reneged on his promise to buy back shares, forcing all shareholders into either an exchange for AM (at less than the per DMC share value) or a bond to raise money for his latest hopelessly futile pie-in-the-sky shenanigans.

The problem with the 1:11 exchange (besides undervaluing DMC in terms of AM) is that allows him to steal DMC's 1000 shares of BTCMC.

His position is that they are "worthless" but Yochdog disagrees, and I've offered to buy the BTCMC shares from him (as has burnside).

Should he not relent from this course of action, I suggest locking the asset and letting us poor shareholders take over, as we've been forced to do with BAKEWELL.



Ukyo is already aware of my wishes to end DMC. Now that yochdog will allow transference of shares, I am going to consider auctioning them off.
97  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] Bitcorp Mining Company - BTCMC 60+ GH/s, clear ASIC upgrade path. on: May 07, 2013, 09:31:38 PM
Wow, you've dragged your trolling into this thread too?

Why don't you want me to enquire as to Yochdog's opinion of your unflattering characterization of his mining company?

You should welcome his confirmation of the correctness of your negative evaluation of BTCMC.

Yochdog, may I buy DMC's 1000 shares now?  If not, I understand, but will you honor an agreement between Diablo and myself to transfer the shares when possible?

Yes, I will facilitate private transactions of shares between consenting parties. 

Really? So if I go run an auction selling the shares, thats totally fine with you?
98  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Diablo Mining Company [shifting gears] on: May 07, 2013, 09:22:53 PM
I would like to clear up the record here.

-BTCMC has 10,000 shares outstanding.  No more, no less.  
-I have an accurate listing of every single shareholder and an associated BTC address.  
-BFL is late, but appears to be moving towards actual delivery.
-The ASIC units are paid for, thus ANY future production is "profit" in the sense that the cost is a sunk cost.

I disagree with any attempt by Diablo to assign "zero value" to DMC's holdings.  I have no dog in this fight, as I am not a DMC shareholder.

Just the facts. 


I'm sorry they dragged you over here.

1) Oops, thought it was 50k. My bad.
2) Yes, you do. No one was disputing this.
3) I do not think BFL will deliver in a timescale that will not see the combined effort of Avalon and ASICMINER make BFL units not worth even a fraction of what everyone paid for them.
4) Yes, but they will still not pay for themselves and will likely pay very little to DMC.
99  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Diablo Mining Company [shifting gears] on: May 07, 2013, 09:19:48 PM

There is something like 50k shares of BTCMC, we have 1k.

600 / 50000 / 1000 = 0.000012 BTC per DMC share

Dude wtf?
600 / 50000 TIMES 1000 = 12 and on... is the math

Times 1000 for per share? What are you on? Seriously, it looks like fun.
100  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] Bitcorp Mining Company - BTCMC 60+ GH/s, clear ASIC upgrade path. on: May 07, 2013, 08:32:48 PM
Hi Yochdog!

Diablo has suddenly decided to strip us DMC shareholders of our ownership of/exposure to BTCMC.   Angry

He says it's "worthless" because it isn't trading and BFL is lagging.   Roll Eyes

He claims your hardware and infrastructure

most likely will be thrown out or sold for what little scrap value they have.

His hare-brained scheme is to steal DMC's investment in BTCMC and use it for DMC 2.0, which is some blue-sky fantasy about disrupting cloud storage completely unrelated to Bitcoin.

 Huh  Any advice?   Undecided

Wow, you've dragged your trolling into this thread too?
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