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841  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] Bitbond 150Gh/s - the only 110% PPS mining bond on: June 24, 2012, 04:24:42 AM
Hey amazingrando, have you considered replacing Bitbond with a fixed dividend bond instead of per mh? It would go a long way to stabilize GLBSE's wild fluctuations, and clearly you can grow your farm fast enough to keep up.
842  Economy / Securities / Re: Forward-looking statement for upcoming July 1st dividend on: June 24, 2012, 04:20:05 AM
Awesome. >3% monthly is nice.

Not if it comes from holding mining bonds that may yield 7-8%, but are about to become worthless.
You can buy greek debt at >8% if you want.
Personally I would avoid those bonds and only invest in mining companies with an upgrade path to asic. Like cognitive.

Please keep trolling in this thread to a minimum.

Its not trolling its smart business to avoid the clear risk these bonds pose to returns.

Many of the bonds are sold at a fixed mh value. They are worth exactly that, no more, no less. There is only one fixed dividend bond on the market and thats BTCMC, as far as I know.
843  Economy / Securities / Re: Forward-looking statement for upcoming July 1st dividend on: June 24, 2012, 03:21:03 AM
Awesome. >3% monthly is nice.

Not if it comes from holding mining bonds that may yield 7-8%, but are about to become worthless.
You can buy greek debt at >8% if you want.
Personally I would avoid those bonds and only invest in mining companies with an upgrade path to asic. Like cognitive.

Please keep trolling in this thread to a minimum.
844  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Quad XC6SLX150 Board - Initial Price £400/$640/520€ on: June 23, 2012, 12:47:27 PM
***
Yohan

Hey man, I can't yell at *** for trolling Enterpoint and then let you guys troll them, even if ***'s offerings are less than, well, existent.

This is his thread, not one of ***'s.  Seems different to me.

Trolling is bad no matter what thread you put it in. Companies should remain professional.
845  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Quad XC6SLX150 Board - Initial Price £400/$640/520€ on: June 23, 2012, 12:42:41 PM
***
Yohan

Hey man, I can't yell at *** for trolling Enterpoint and then let you guys troll them, even if ***'s offerings are less than, well, existent.
846  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Xeon Phi on: June 22, 2012, 11:23:16 PM
I was also under the impression the 7970 did have ECC, but I thought it was not used. It would cost performance? My impression is based from some articles and postings such as the two below.

I read this sometime back on: http://www.anandtech.com/Show/Index/4455?cPage=4&all=False&sort=0&page=6&slug=amds-graphics-core-next-preview-amd-architects-for-compute

Quote
Finally on the memory side, AMD is adding proper ECC support to supplement their existing EDC (Error Detection & Correction) functionality, which is used to ensure the integrity of memory transmissions across the GDDR5 memory bus. Both the SRAM and VRAM memory can be ECC protected. For the SRAM this is a free operation, while for the VRAM there will be a performance overhead. We’re assuming that AMD will be using a virtual ECC scheme like NVIDIA, where ECC data is distributed across VRAM rather than using extra memory chips/controllers.

Shamino has done some LN2 overclocking when the 7970 was released, in his forum he wrote for the 7970,

Quote
actually 1800 ram is easy, i ran 2000 ram and it got the ECC correction and the score was worse.

http://kingpincooling.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1559

ECC on external RAM like that is done by adding more chips. If these were DIMMs, you'd have DIMMs with 9 chips instead of 8.

The easy way to figure this out is if someone finds a picture of the ref board naked and count the chips.

But would counting the number of chips tell whether the gpu support ECC? Probably on DIMMs they may have the extra memory chips to spread the bits equally through chipkill (e.g. 13-bit word = 8-bit data and 5-bit parity, needs to be spread across 13 DRAM chips)? The 7970 most likely has a virtual scheme to implement ECC, that is through BCH code or Hamming as possible examples - the Anandtech article I previously posted made note of it probably being a virtual ECC implementation. DIMMS with 9 chips do parity on 1 bit, multiple ECC DIMMs can do multiple parity bits across DIMMS. As for the 7970, relying on chip-virtual ECC implementation allows for multi-bit errors to be corrected/detected more conveniently and cheaper.

I really doubt they're doing that, it would add too much complexity to the memory controllers. So, yes, find a 7970 photo, count the memory chips, and post the number in here.
847  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Xeon Phi on: June 22, 2012, 09:27:53 PM
Protip: Xeon Phi run x86 code

Good luck using the 7970 (or nvidia) computing power, having to fight with opencl and cuda.

Highly unlikely Phi is going to run x86 code unmodified.

Also, OpenCL isn't bad, it's the whole making things "parallel" that is the hard part of any problem.

Actually, it might run x86 code unmodified. That just isn't the best way to performance on those machines.
848  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Xeon Phi on: June 22, 2012, 09:25:44 PM
I was also under the impression the 7970 did have ECC, but I thought it was not used. It would cost performance? My impression is based from some articles and postings such as the two below.

I read this sometime back on: http://www.anandtech.com/Show/Index/4455?cPage=4&all=False&sort=0&page=6&slug=amds-graphics-core-next-preview-amd-architects-for-compute

Quote
Finally on the memory side, AMD is adding proper ECC support to supplement their existing EDC (Error Detection & Correction) functionality, which is used to ensure the integrity of memory transmissions across the GDDR5 memory bus. Both the SRAM and VRAM memory can be ECC protected. For the SRAM this is a free operation, while for the VRAM there will be a performance overhead. We’re assuming that AMD will be using a virtual ECC scheme like NVIDIA, where ECC data is distributed across VRAM rather than using extra memory chips/controllers.

Shamino has done some LN2 overclocking when the 7970 was released, in his forum he wrote for the 7970,

Quote
actually 1800 ram is easy, i ran 2000 ram and it got the ECC correction and the score was worse.

http://kingpincooling.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1559

ECC on external RAM like that is done by adding more chips. If these were DIMMs, you'd have DIMMs with 9 chips instead of 8.

The easy way to figure this out is if someone finds a picture of the ref board naked and count the chips.
849  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Xeon Phi on: June 22, 2012, 02:46:37 PM
Probably covered some of the stuff in thread, but interesting read on the Xeon Phi:

http://vr-zone.com/articles/intel-xeon-family-finally-accepts-the-larrabee-in-xeon-phi-and-its-futures/16361.html


This article fail:

Quote
So, how does it stand performance wise? Its double precision FP throughput is the same as the typical AMD Radeon HD7970 card which costs one quarter of the amount but with much smaller memory, 3 GB, and no ECC.
No ECC? The 7970 has ECC  Roll Eyes

No it doesn't. What GCN did was add ECC to all internal on-die memory (caches, local stores, etc), but the only cards AMD has that have ECC GDDR5 are FirePro/FireStream cards, and although they're normal GCN chips, they're not referred to as such.
850  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Xeon Phi on: June 22, 2012, 07:40:37 AM
I wonder how much stuff Intel removed to put 50 cores on a card.
Here's a pdf depicting the organization of Larrabee, the precursor of Phi.
http://users.ece.gatech.edu/lanterma/mpg08/Larrabee_ECE4893.pdf

Im already well aware of how they designed that. Its more butchered than Atom. But from what I've heard, Phi isn't nearly as bad.
851  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Xeon Phi on: June 22, 2012, 05:42:50 AM
Yeah, what I described is clearly Step 3 or later. Intel also seems to have finally sold a "step 3" type of device in the Phi, depending on what it actually can do.

Intel seems more interested in incorporating the CPU into the GPU, while AMD is incorporating the GPU into the CPU. Totally different mindsets/endgames/results.

They both want branch/loop happy highly parallel computation. The Radeon's biggest "problem" (and I'm using the term loosely) is that wavefronts are ran in lockstep: both sides of a branch are the same length, even if it requires inserting no-ops, and loops that have lengths that are set at runtime (instead of static/compile time set) are just as nasty.

CPUs, otoh, can't do highly parallel calculations because of all the hardware dedicated dealing with branching, branch prediction, cache prediction, etc etc etc takes up a lot of room, produces a lot of heat, and uses a lot of power. I wonder how much stuff Intel removed to put 50 cores on a card.
852  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Xeon Phi on: June 22, 2012, 04:17:24 AM
Quote
And, at least behind the closed doors, both AMD and Nvidia GPUs have been shown booting Linux on their own, without requiring a CPU.

umm. wat

AMD's Fusion is a product of years of research. AMD "demo'ed" an all HyperTransport Radeon about a year after they bought ATI, and they've also been showing off prototype Fusions that don't just have Radeon pipes on-die* but usable from the x86 interface side, although what "usable" means is still up in the air, but if they've managed to use them as the backend for SIMD instructions (ie, no more dedicated FPU units, and the x86 instruction scheduler issues as many ops as it can in parallel (instead of just, say, 2 per core), instead 512 Radeon ALUs across the entire CPU) this could mean a huge goddamned increase in FP performance without needing a dedicated HAL API like OpenCL.

* On-die Fusion Radeons don't have a Radeon memory controller and natively speak HyperTransport. The up side is, they have direct access to system memory as a native processor and can access stuff directly out of on-die cache: this means you have basically zero wait time to send stuff to the GPU for processing and you have zero cost cache coherency.


This is an old slide, but it gives a good vision of AMD's overall goal. We are somewhere between step 2 and step 3, and it's only going to be getting better! AMD has one of the most creative and innovative visions for the future of consumer computing (as opposed to intel just shrinking nm die sizes), and I  think it's progressing quite well (just look at the success of their APU sales) I also think it's only going to get better for them as they move along with even more amazing features like what you just described.

/amdfanboyrant

Yeah, what I described is clearly Step 3 or later. Intel also seems to have finally sold a "step 3" type of device in the Phi, depending on what it actually can do.
853  Economy / Securities / Forward-looking statement for upcoming July 1st dividend on: June 22, 2012, 03:07:32 AM
Our second dividend and first full month dividend is quickly approaching.

Estimated total dividends: 75.52 to 83.00 BTC
Estimated per share dividend: 0.028495 to 0.031827 BTC
854  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Xeon Phi on: June 22, 2012, 12:29:32 AM
Quote
And, at least behind the closed doors, both AMD and Nvidia GPUs have been shown booting Linux on their own, without requiring a CPU.

umm. wat

AMD's Fusion is a product of years of research. AMD "demo'ed" an all HyperTransport Radeon about a year after they bought ATI, and they've also been showing off prototype Fusions that don't just have Radeon pipes on-die* but usable from the x86 interface side, although what "usable" means is still up in the air, but if they've managed to use them as the backend for SIMD instructions (ie, no more dedicated FPU units, and the x86 instruction scheduler issues as many ops as it can in parallel (instead of just, say, 2 per core), instead 512 Radeon ALUs across the entire CPU) this could mean a huge goddamned increase in FP performance without needing a dedicated HAL API like OpenCL.

* On-die Fusion Radeons don't have a Radeon memory controller and natively speak HyperTransport. The up side is, they have direct access to system memory as a native processor and can access stuff directly out of on-die cache: this means you have basically zero wait time to send stuff to the GPU for processing and you have zero cost cache coherency.
855  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] Diablo Mining Company (DMC) [5.0 ghash] on: June 21, 2012, 01:30:13 PM
.... As it stands, people are valuing DMC like a mining stock, and there is no formula to convert non-mining assets to mhash. I imagine when we get the green energy farm online, no one will have to worry about DMC stock price again.

You can alway look at the price versus div and figure out your return (yield)  if you buy a security at price X. As simple as that.
BTC form Mh is nothing more than a floating "coupon". If coupon drops (Mh produces less btc), bond price will go down to keep up with yield desired by market.

 

Yeah, but no one has an easy to read chart for that. Theres a Google spreadsheet out there, but its nigh unreadable.
856  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] FUTUREFUND - Making the Future Happen on: June 21, 2012, 03:23:47 AM

What he really wants to do is buy out DMC.
857  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] BTC-Mining - 75 Ghash/s mining operation on: June 21, 2012, 12:35:12 AM
Don't bother bringing that up. No one trusts BFL.

Aren't we buying their minirig though? Or you mean nobody trusts their specs or their delivery dates?

No one trusts their specs or delivery dates. 28nm also may completely crush it.
858  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] BTC-Mining - 75 Ghash/s mining operation on: June 21, 2012, 12:29:46 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html

Any ideas when are those coming out?

If we get the minirig, can we sell it back for $15000 as this article says? (or so I understand)

Maybe we could spend the first 15K we gather in the new single units? We could get more than 10 of them for a total of 400Ghash/s.

And then when we collect the next 30K we can get the new minirig for another 1Thash/s.


I still can't believe those numbers. I am reading them again and again... Is this going to happen during 2012???

Don't bother bringing that up. No one trusts BFL.
859  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] Bitcorp Mining Company - BTCMC 40 GH/s with plans for 50 GH/s on: June 20, 2012, 10:37:25 PM
BFL also made fools of themselves by trolling them.

Frankly, the only trolling I see is you stickying that post and putting that title on it.

As for recommending purchasing fpgas at this point, particularly ones that cant be traded up for asics, and to someone who pays virtually nothing for his electricity.. well Im not (yet) a shareholder, but I would hope a CEO knows when to ignore advice from a shareholder.



You're welcome to outvote me in the motion.
860  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] Bitcorp Mining Company - BTCMC 40 GH/s with plans for 50 GH/s on: June 20, 2012, 09:12:56 PM
OK shareholders......I think P4man is correct, and we need to decide sooner rather than later how we want to proceed.  

I have created a motion on GLBSE to issue and additional 6,000 shares, the proceeds of which will be used to place an order for a BFL SC mini-rig.  

I will take feedback here, and you can vote on GLBSE.

Currently BTCMC represents .3% of the mining network (1/300th).  If we purchase a SC mini-rig, the network capacity could leap to 300 TH/s (25x) before our share of the block reward would go down.  



I own 783 shares, I've voted no.

What would be your preferred route? 

See four posts up. Enterpoint now, 28nm later, and BFL has probably lied about their SC minirig and its closer to 500gh for $60k so 22nm FPGAs should start rolling out about the time they come out with their SC gear.

I have not seen the exact specs on Enterpoint.....what are they offering? 

A quad Spartan 6 board that has enough amps to run Tricone Mining's firmware. Seems to be the cheapest Spartan 6 solution per mh. They're a British company that specializes in custom computation gear, but the Cairnsmore is the first Bitcoin-related product they've made.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78239.0

BFL also made fools of themselves by trolling them.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88363.0
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