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701  Economy / Economics / Re: POLL: How you're planning on using your bitcoins on: July 12, 2011, 01:03:01 AM
I'm 50/50 BTC and Bullion. Only keeping enough paper cash for things that I can only buy with paper cash. I try first to spend with BTC.
702  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can bitcoin fill the void in a bank run? on: July 11, 2011, 11:44:33 PM
@cypherdoc: Yes, I too was amazed to see the the USD and Treasuries soar while gold and silver plummeted during the '08 crisis but the next time around (as alluded to in the article) it would be the dollar itself that gets broken. It wouldn't be its' own "safe-haven".

I see how there could be demand for physical dollars but the reason there would be a demand is so that people could get out of them and convert them into a stronger currency. So what I see, in the scenario described in the article, is that the physical dollar would still drop against all other currencies (otherwise there wouldn't be a bank run in the first place) but the digital dollars would drop dramatically more in value.

A recent example is Argentina during the debt default of 2000. The peso lost 60% +/- against the dollar. There was still a huge demand for physical pesos but the banks simply closed while the value of the peso continued to drop. Physical cash virtually disappeared and people had to resort to barter if they didn't have US dollars or pesos to trade with.

So this time around the dollar wouldn't be the "safe haven", it would be what everyone is trying to get out of. Because of this I can see bitcoin and precious metals rising significantly as the new "barterable items of choice" since most Americans don't hold other currencies (at least in Argentina a lot of people held US dollars). But I could be missing something.

A good argument could be made for bitcoin appreciating dramatically more than precious metals because it can be traded across space and time electronically. Physical gold and silver couldn't do this. Simply put, bitcoin is easier to carry, protect and trade with. It is arguably a better medium of exchange when compared to physical gold and silver.
703  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can bitcoin fill the void in a bank run? on: July 11, 2011, 11:41:06 PM
A bank run like the ones that happened pre-fed days are not likely to happen, because the Fed backs all banks 100%. If people start withdrawing cash like crazy from their bank accounts, the Fed simply orders cash to be printed as it is necessary. Of course people would be holding on to pieces of paper with nothing to actually back it up.

Yes, but the point is that they don't have that much physical cash on hand to meet the demand. Cranking up the printing presses requires some lead time. During that interim period banks would likely shut down and barter would be order of the day. But I could be wrong... Smiley
704  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can bitcoin fill the void in a bank run? on: July 11, 2011, 11:25:30 PM
@cypherdoc: Yes, I too was amazed to see the the USD and Treasuries soar while gold and silver plummeted during the '08 crisis but the next time around (as alluded to in the article) it would be the dollar itself that gets broken. It wouldn't be its' own "safe-haven".

I see how there could be demand for physical dollars but the reason there would be a demand is so that people could get out of them and convert them into a stronger currency. So what I see, in the scenario described in the article, is that the physical dollar would still drop against all other currencies (otherwise there wouldn't be a bank run in the first place) but the digital dollars would drop dramatically more in value.

A recent example is Argentina during the debt default of 2000. The peso lost 60% +/- against the dollar. There was still a huge demand for physical pesos but the banks simply closed while the value of the peso continued to drop. Physical cash virtually disappeared and people had to resort to barter if they didn't have US dollars or pesos to trade with.

So this time around the dollar wouldn't be the "safe haven", it would be what everyone is trying to get out of. Because of this I can see bitcoin and precious metals rising significantly as the new "barterable items of choice" since most Americans don't hold other currencies (at least in Argentina a lot of people held US dollars). But I could be missing something.
705  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Can bitcoin fill the void in a bank run? on: July 11, 2011, 08:48:20 PM
Reading the following article and got to thinking how those of us holding bitcoin and bullion (vs. bank deposits) would be in pretty good shape should the following event happen:

What An American Bank Run Would Look Like

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/what-american-bank-run-would-look
706  Economy / Marketplace / Re: THE Place to Shop w/ Bitcoin: BitCoinWorldMarket.com on: July 11, 2011, 08:40:48 PM
Just bought a few items and the process was easy and nice. I felt even better because I didn't have to use a traditional bank account or credit card. I'll say it again, I paid for my product totally outside of the current banking system! Grin
707  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: tradebitcoin.com fixed (find local bitcoin traders) on: July 11, 2011, 04:19:15 AM
Hmm... just tried it and it seems to be spotty - can't get it to work properly...

708  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How Many Here Wish to Remain Anonymous When Making Bitcoin Purchases? on: July 10, 2011, 02:03:57 PM
Yes, anonymity is what attracted many people here in the first place. Unfortunately, bitcoin is not as anonymous as many people think. If you want to help make bitcoin more anonymous please see the following thread:

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6354.msg347433#msg347433

709  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: software announcement: "Moneychanger" on: July 10, 2011, 01:40:35 PM
Yes, if you really want true anonymous cash transactions then Bitcoin + Open Transactions could be awesome. Bitcoin, specifically it's decentralized nature, is what was needed to make Open Transactions feasible for untraceable digital cash transactions. As FellowTraveler has requested, all that is needed is volunteers to help build it out. Those of us without programming talent can help with funding.

I've posted a thread link below for more info and I've posted the donation address as well:

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=20425.msg264740#msg264740

btc donation address to help this project along:

1NtTPVVjDsUfDWybS4BwvHpG2pdS9RnYyQ

More info:

https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki

and

https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Moneychanger
710  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Local currencies + bitcoin on: July 10, 2011, 01:18:19 PM
You would just need the issuers of the local paper currency to be able to show and prove backing for the paper currency in a publicly auditable fashion. This means the issuer(s) would have to put up the bitcoin first before issuing the local paper currency. The purchasing power of the local currency would fluctuate with the value of bitcoin unless you adjusted the amount of bitcoin backing regularly so that the local paper currency is always traded 1 to 1 with the US dollar.
711  Other / Politics & Society / Re: American-liberals, socialists and statists, what is your idea of liberty? on: July 10, 2011, 05:34:54 AM
I can identify with this:

My Philosophy of Liberty

By Anthony Freeman
http://economicsandliberty.wordpress.com/my-philosophy-of-liberty/

The following is a loose overview of my personal “Philosophy of Liberty” which I have developed up to the present time. It warrants further refinement and I’m sure I will continue to modify it as I continue my studies of economics and liberty. Those champions of individual liberty that have contributed to my personal philosophy are too numerous to list here but I have provided links below to sources where you will find many of their works. I hope that my philosophical observations may be of benefit to you and give you some ideas in the development of your own “Philosophy of Liberty”.

Simplified Definitions

Life: our biological existence in space and time.

Liberty: the ability to live one’s life as one wishes while respecting the lives of others.

Property: the goods that man produces or acquires through voluntary exchange and/or gift. Claims of land ownership are included here as well.

Murder: the taking of man’s life without his voluntary consent. This deprives him of his future (and future productivity).  Excluded from this definition is the taking of another person’s life in the act of self-defense against an aggressor (when one believes one’s life is threatened) or in the defense of others when the lives of these others are threatened.

Slavery: the taking of man’s liberty without his voluntary consent. This deprives him of his present.

Theft: the taking of man’s property without his voluntary consent. This deprives him of his past (the time energy and talent that he used to produce this property).

Plunder: The ill-gotten gains from theft.

On The Nature of Human Life

    Man seeks happiness (and seeks to remove uneasiness or discomfort).
    Man seeks life for if there is no life there is no man.
    In order to live man must consume those things that sustain his life (food, shelter, etc.).
    In order for the necessities of life to be consumed they must first be produced.
    An infant cannot produce for himself so he must rely on the production of others through charity.
    As a child matures he must continue to rely on the charitable production of others until he learns to produce for himself.
    In the process of producing for oneself man usually develops a specialization resulting in a surplus that can be traded for the products of the specialized skills of others.
    This process of production results in what is often referred to as “the fruits of his labor”.
    These products are an extension of man because they are the direct result of his invested time and life energy.

First Conclusion

Based upon the propositions set forth, anyone who seeks to take another man’s life, liberty or property against that man’s voluntary consent is an enemy to human life. With this understanding I propose to label my philosophy of liberty as “pro-life” as I am vehemently opposed to murder, slavery, and theft. This is not to be confused with the label of “pro-life” as it relates to abortion although abortion is certainly an issue to be considered within this broader philosophy (the issues regarding abortion will not be addressed in this missive).

Further Observations

There are some men who seek to take away the property and liberty of others in order to use this production for personal profit. These men choose this path as they find it preferable to producing for themselves.

This short-term benefit is not only dangerous to the thief but it is detrimental to his long-term well-being as well. This is because his victims must divert a portion of their resources toward protection services instead of to production. This loss of production reduces the overall societal standard of living as there are less products and services available for trade.

Despite this, the thief is not concerned with the detrimental, long-term effects of plunder as he only cares about the immediate benefit. Therefore, the rest of society must take protective measures if they wish to safeguard their life, liberty and property. It follows then that the degree of man’s freedom is proportionate to the level of protection he has secured.

The Ignorant Plunderers

These are the individuals that unintentionally participate in plunder as they have not thought through the consequences of their actions. Those in this category are the majority of all plunderers and, unfortunately, a large percentage of society.

The Purposeful Plunderers

These are the individuals who know that their actions are contrary to human well-being and they continue in their plunder anyway. They can be thought of as “anti-life”. Those in this category are in the minority of all plunderers.

On Advancing Liberty

It appears then that there are three worthy endeavors that must be undertaken if one wants to enhance life (freedom):

First: One must work to master himself.  Self-mastery.  Self-control.  He must work to adjust his actions so that he is no longer a participator in plunder.  Robert LeFevre referred to this as Autarchy or “self-rule”.  Freedom is self-control, not license to impose on others.

Second: One must work to educate those individuals that are Ignorant Plunderers so that they can recognize the negative consequences of their actions and then hopefully change those actions.

Third: One must invest a portion of his resources toward the protection of his life, liberty and property from both types of Plunderers. Harry Browne recognized this when he said that “freedom is self-defense” in his fantastic Rule Your World seminar.

On Self-Defense

There many strategies for defending one’s life, liberty and property which will not be addressed in detail here.

One strategy for dealing with the Purposeful Plunderers that I will call your attention to is the one put forth by Marc Stevens in his book Adventures in Legal Land. His key observation is that the Purposeful Plunderers must maintain a veneer of legitimacy or moral authority in order to continue their plunder. Marc’s techniques for destroying that veneer are powerful and they warrant further study, analysis and practice.

On Education

Thankfully for the internet there are now numerous resources where people can learn the ideas of liberty. A few that I will mention here are The Freedom School, LewRockwell.com, and the Ludwig von Mises Institute.

On Self-Rule

On this wise I will refer you to two, short discourses that explain this principle better than I ever could.  The first is Robert LeFevre’s Autarchy.  The second is A Way To Be Free – Epilogue which I feel are some of the finest words ever written concerning the cause of liberty.

Conclusion

With my personal philosophy I can easily be referred to by any of the popular labels: Libertarian, Liberal, Classical Liberal, Voluntaryist, Autarchist, Capitalist, Free-Market Capitalist, Anarcho-Capitalist, Anarchist, Agorist, Counter-Economist, Idealist, Realist and so on but when you really get to the heart of the matter I am ultimately “Pro-Life”.
712  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bitcoins backed Chaumian currencies - are there any? on: July 10, 2011, 04:50:52 AM
+1
713  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: software announcement: "Moneychanger" on: July 10, 2011, 04:33:19 AM
+1
714  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Cautionary Tale: What the poker community can give to the bitcoin community on: July 10, 2011, 03:01:19 AM
Excellent post.
715  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is this a paradox? on: July 09, 2011, 07:09:32 PM
It would be impossible for one person to accumulate all bitcoins unless they had dropped to essentially zero due to a devastating flaw/security issue.

Why impossible? Because every marginal bitcoin which is purchased from some other owner will increase in value up to infinity. Imagine if one man started buying all the bitcoins now... the price would rise and rise and rise. Perhaps he could get half the bitcoins. Maybe 80% of them. But as he approached 100% ownership, those with the remaining coins would only sell at higher prices. A bitcoin would become so expensive that not even Warren Buffet could purchase the last few.

Note: this same economic concept is why the world will never "run out" of oil, or trees, or any resource. If the last barrel of oil were found... at what price would it sell? Infinity. And long before that last barrel, alternatives would be used.

So cheer up all, we'll never run out of oil, and Bitcoins will never all be owned by one person Wink
+1
716  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: An Idea to help make Bitcoin work. Towards Critical Mass on: July 09, 2011, 05:12:58 PM
What a good idea, i'll just buy a bunch of bitcoins and give them away for free!

LOL
717  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Fun Calculation For The Day on: July 09, 2011, 05:05:05 PM

You all had some education at some point.  Did you skip out on critical thinking class?  You think it's reasonable for bitcoins to reach $200,000 each in ten years?

Why not?
718  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is this a paradox? on: July 09, 2011, 04:44:37 PM
Quote

Just being analytical, money is the root of all evil is an obvious fallacy. Rand's character, d'Anconia, does not address this. Instead he goes off on a tangent about how money is a basis of morality. Which I think is as nonsensical as saying it is evil.

True, money is neutral. The way that it is used (or abused) is what gives it color. I like Francisco's speech because it gives the extreme counter-punch to the "money is evil" crowd. Especially to some of those on these forums who, like the moochers, are envious of those who have acquired bitcoin and they keep begging the bitcoin holders ( or trying to "guilt" them) to "share the wealth" and "don't hoard" - which is another fallacy. Smiley
719  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Fun Calculation For The Day on: July 09, 2011, 04:39:09 PM
Why do you guys assume that the value of gold will stay at $1500/ounce? Bitcoin could easily exceed $10mio if the USD lost its global credibility.

Whether or not it ever reaches market share parity with gold is another issue... who knows. Perhaps one day the digitial nature will be seen as a boon rather than bane.

No assumption here. I'm certain the money-printing will continue and these calculations could very well be understated!
720  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is this a paradox? on: July 09, 2011, 03:07:44 PM

“So you think that money is the root of all evil?” said Francisco d’Anconia. “Have you ever asked what is the root of money?

I believe the original goes: "the love of money is the root of all evil." From 1 Timothy in the NKJV Bible.

So this d'Anconia guy makes a passionate "man is behind money "speech based on a misquote? Ayn Rand ought to know better.

FYI: Her character is not quoting the bible therefore there is no misquote. Smiley
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