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41  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin could be used to create a silkroad for books on: August 27, 2011, 12:46:39 AM
Often when debating strangers on the internet, it requires checking a book to see if the quote was true or in context. That's what I would use this for, since there's not always a PDF on rapidshare or something.
42  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Bitcoin could be used to create a silkroad for books on: August 25, 2011, 10:34:01 PM
It could work like this:

1. People go to the library, take some books home, and scan them in.
2. People who support the project donate some anonymous bitcoins.
3. The system automatically divides the bitcoins to each person taking part in the project each month. The more pages you upload, the bigger your share of the donations.
4. Continue until every book existing in the world is uploaded, for free, without any restrictions, in one amazing library for every person on the planet to access.
43  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Libertarian Anticapitalism on: August 25, 2011, 10:15:35 PM

Don't be daft. I know you're not an idiot, so don't play one on the internet.


I might be misunderstanding this. Are you saying that Immanuel Go doesn't actually believe what he writes, that's just playing a role for fun?
He's usually rather well reasoned but this latest post was just plain dumb, and he's been smarter than that before. Dead wrong and naive naturally but smarter.

My question was whether he wrote something, which he thinks is wrong, purposefully.
44  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Michelle Obama accused of spending $10m in public money on vacations on: August 25, 2011, 10:01:34 PM
As someone who supports limited government, I don't have a problem with this. My reasoning is that a president is at considerable more risk of assassination then an ordinary person. A salary of 400k may look like a lot, but it isn't enough to hire military jets and so on privately.
45  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Libertarian Anticapitalism on: August 25, 2011, 12:22:09 PM

Don't be daft. I know you're not an idiot, so don't play one on the internet.


I might be misunderstanding this. Are you saying that Immanuel Go doesn't actually believe what he writes, that's just playing a role for fun?
46  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Internet billionaire donates $1.25 million to create libertarian islands on: August 22, 2011, 04:12:48 PM
Remember the idea is to make government itself a marketable good with open competition. Which means central planning can still be selected for (by the migration of people) if it's done well. Libertarians will generally expect the winners of it to be similar to their views, but there's nothing stated in the rules that it's true.

I'm unsure why socialists or traditional anarchists are not as interested.
47  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Internet billionaire donates $1.25 million to create libertarian islands on: August 22, 2011, 03:59:14 PM
Cruise ships can hold several thousand people, it seems to have the same issue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise_ship_pollution_in_the_United_States

Which would make me a prefer a floating city with sewage regulation, due to the public choice problem behind it. My understanding is that modern septic tanks get rid of exess water, leaving only solid waste behind to be pumped every few years. So not everywhere will need a waste treatment plant. The first seasteads are going to ship it back to shore.
48  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Internet billionaire donates $1.25 million to create libertarian islands on: August 21, 2011, 04:20:23 PM

You are right about the community being too small. 200 good individuals (the initial raft) could probably make the worst kinds of governments still work. But this is supposed to be a long-term project, the idea to have governments (eventually) act like corporations, with market forces selecting for them. So if you don't like your government you could detach your property and go somewhere else. Under that system, seasteads will start to stick together under particularly effective/uncorrupt systems and we'll start to see city states of few thousand people.


That doesn't change anything.  A few thousand people still results in ultimate reliance on one another.  If this society is supposed to be self-sustaining, you'd at least one person from every imaginable profession.  With a couple thousand people, that's about all you're going to get is 1-2 people from each profession.  That means everyone needs to execute their job flawlessly.  If a couple people miss a beat, the survival of the entire society is at risk.




It isn't supposed to be self-substaining (as I've had to repeat several times). They want to trade with other countries, most goods will still be imported even with a few thousand people. I will put that in bold text if I have to say that again!
49  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Internet billionaire donates $1.25 million to create libertarian islands on: August 21, 2011, 09:36:18 AM
Unless you get surrounded by a ring of corrupt seasteds that endup getting absorbed by one evil empire, and then they start growing innards till you not have anywhere to go but you can't stay either...

Like with the evolution of living species, the evolution of states favors the ones that are good enough for the moment, but not necessarily perfect. At at some point(s) remaining imperfect costs less than changing for the better.

I can't make the same connection with evolution so you so might need to clarify it a bit, as I assume others will have the same problem. Perhaps you could provide an example of a real-world geno/phenotype with this property?

50  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Internet billionaire donates $1.25 million to create libertarian islands on: August 21, 2011, 07:32:58 AM
To be honest, it wouldn't cost anything extra for the US to defend a seasteading community off its coast.  All it has to do is announce that the community is under its protection.  No country is going to attack the US or any protectorate of it with its current military capabilities.  


The irony in that situation would be unbearable.  Rugged, independent individuals leeching protection off an evil government they pay no taxes to.  Cheesy

If you bother having a read of the FAQ, the project makes no mentions of morals (good and evil) and isn't even anti-government, though it's mostly libertarians interested in it right now. They want to test all sorts of societies, including socialist ones, but even most libertarians want a government.

Something I would like to see to tried is direct-democracy, e-democracy specifically: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-democracy




My bottom line point is that it really doesn't matter who is doing it, it's a totally idiotic idea.  You can't pretend you're testing these systems of government in some controlled conditions just because you're in the middle of the ocean.  In fact, it's not even good conditions for that type of experiment.  It's not even ok conditions.  In actuality, I can't think of a worse set of conditions to use to test governmental systems under.  A platform at sea is TOTALLY dependent on the outside world and will house such a small community that the literal survival of the society will completely depend on each and every individual.

Look up the many biodome experiments if you want to see the success rate (0%, just FYI) of this type of thing.

You are right about the community being too small. 200 good individuals (the initial raft) could probably make the worst kinds of governments still work. But this is supposed to be a long-term project, the idea to have governments (eventually) act like corporations, with market forces selecting for them. So if you don't like your government you could detach your property and go somewhere else. Under that system, seasteads will start to stick together under particularly effective/uncorrupt systems and we'll start to see city states of few thousand people.
51  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Internet billionaire donates $1.25 million to create libertarian islands on: August 21, 2011, 12:17:37 AM
To be honest, it wouldn't cost anything extra for the US to defend a seasteading community off its coast.  All it has to do is announce that the community is under its protection.  No country is going to attack the US or any protectorate of it with its current military capabilities.  


The irony in that situation would be unbearable.  Rugged, independent individuals leeching protection off an evil government they pay no taxes to.  Cheesy

If you bother having a read of the FAQ, the project makes no mentions of morals (good and evil) and isn't even anti-government, though it's mostly libertarians interested in it right now. They want to test all sorts of societies, including socialist ones, but even most libertarians want a government.

Something I would like to see to tried is direct-democracy, e-democracy specifically: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-democracy

52  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Oh, big companies must love free markets... on: August 21, 2011, 12:11:52 AM
I guess we'll just ignore the fact that the Ron Paul list is a who's who of defense contractors.  Roll Eyes

Two sides, same coin.
He wants all of our troops home. He's actually skeptical of 9/11.


Which is obviously why every defense contractor in the country is backing him... because they want to destroy themselves.
Maybe his actions will lead to more of a focus on defense at home and more sales due to said change? He has never lied or left his principles. He will not advocate war.

Perhaps it would be a better rebuttal to mentioning that it's soldiers, not defense contractors, doing the donating.
53  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Conference 2011 NYC on: August 19, 2011, 04:05:34 PM
Is there a stream of this? At what time?
54  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Porn on: August 19, 2011, 02:42:21 PM
My understanding of the huge 'bitcoin bubble' a few months back was that it was caused by a senator clamoring to shut down Silk Road and Bitcoins. Saying quite openly that bitcoins were being used to buy drugs.

So it might be that the more moral outrage there is, the faster bitcoin is learnt about and adopted. If that's true, then it makes it worthwhile to support the use of bitcoin for immoral activities, even if that's not what personally interests you.
55  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Internet billionaire donates $1.25 million to create libertarian islands on: August 19, 2011, 02:28:13 PM
I hope they build it off the coast of Somalia. I don't want my tax money spent to defend it.

Why not? Isn't the ability to experiment with new governments and societies a very useful thing? They state repeatedly on the website that this isn't restricted to libertarianism. So I assume various forms of socialism could be tested aswell. The only criteria is that people should always be allowed to leave.

It seems to me that there's a lot to learn here, what ever your political views are.
Unless they are officially chartered as a member of my country, then the answer is no. Sovereignty has a price, if you don't pay it, then you don't deserve to be free.

I think your jumping to conclusions by assuming there isn't a price. There is a price here: the useful information gained from experimenting with various untested societies.

I don't think the seasteaders are asking for US defense, but I still think it would be worth the money even if they did.

56  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Internet billionaire donates $1.25 million to create libertarian islands on: August 19, 2011, 04:08:21 AM
Only $1.25 million?  Thats not enough to buy a house with a decent garden in London let alone to create a free state.  This guy should pony up enough to at least make his idea possible.

Which isn't really the goal of the project. From the website:

"Many similar ventures failed because they expected billions to materialize out of thin air. Our ideas for seastead financing are far more realistic. The basic idea is to proceed in self-financing, incremental steps."
57  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Internet billionaire donates $1.25 million to create libertarian islands on: August 19, 2011, 04:02:44 AM
I hope they build it off the coast of Somalia. I don't want my tax money spent to defend it.

Why not? Isn't the ability to experiment with new governments and societies a very useful thing? They state repeatedly on the website that this isn't restricted to libertarianism. So I assume various forms of socialism could be tested aswell. The only criteria is that people should always be allowed to leave.

It seems to me that there's a lot to learn here, what ever your political views are.
58  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Internet billionaire donates $1.25 million to create libertarian islands on: August 19, 2011, 03:59:08 AM
this is going to be crazy when its done..


Crazy good place to hide from taxes and bang child prostitutes, but otherwise (if it even gets started) it'll just be a disaster that ends in chaos just like every biodome trial... ever.

Perhaps you should of read the link I posted? Have a look at this quote below:

We don’t think our libertarian supporters expect to create a perfect libertarian paradise where they can do whatever they want without any interference. They are simply looking for a significant improvement over the territorial status quo. To see how large a gain this might be, try the following thought experiment: Look at all the states currently in existence and consider how a libertarian might hand select the best available policies from among them to create a new, single set of institutions.

For example, there are countries in Europe (Switzerland, The Netherlands and Portugal) with fairly lax drug laws (social freedom). There are economic havens (Luxembourg, Bahamas) with very low tax rates (economic freedom). None are perfect from a libertarian perspective. The drug-tolerant countries tend to be left-leaning states with high taxes. The tax havens tend to be more right-wing and socially restrictive. Libertarians feel the combination of these two types of freedoms is worth striving for, even if either is restricted to the maximum level currently tolerated by any of the powers-that-be. Such a state would be far more libertarian than any currently in existence without pushing the legal envelope or creating any radically new policies.

In practice, some libertarians think they can achieve even more freedom than this. Countries really do have a great deal of leeway in their internal affairs, after all. A libertarian seastead should easily be able to have no zoning laws or building codes, low taxes, no import/export tariffs, few restrictions on weapons, local consumption of drugs, no minimum wage, no legislated work week, no coerced welfare system, no eminent domain and many other items from a laundry list of common libertarian policies.

Sure, there are definite limitations. Actions seen as a serious threat to the security of other nations ought not be tolerated, such as letting terrorists launder money, exporting drugs to countries where they are illegal, or researching or building weapons of mass destruction, particularly with nuclear capabilities.
59  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Internet billionaire donates $1.25 million to create libertarian islands on: August 18, 2011, 11:25:47 PM
For those interested in this, I suggest reading the detailed and well-written FAQ here: http://seasteading.org/about-seasteading/frequently-asked-questions
60  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Silicon Valley billionaire funding creation of artificial libertarian islands on: August 18, 2011, 11:24:45 PM
By the way check out the seasteading FAQ: http://seasteading.org/about-seasteading/frequently-asked-questions#freedom_without_interference

It's very detailed and goes over several of questions raised in this thread, including things like piracy.
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