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1  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 26, 2018, 01:44:23 AM
TAUcoin debate daily topic 10/26/2018

Continuation of reward clipping discussion. What will happen if there is no limit on reward received from one transaction (say, someone pays 0.1 TAU transaction fee can earn 1 TAU later from this transaction)? Imagination please Wink
2  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 26, 2018, 01:39:59 AM
TAUcoin debate daily topic 10/25/2018

Continuation of reward clipping discussion. Do you think it is fair for a user to gain profit from making transactions? For example, without reward clipping, one can send transactions between his own addresses to increase mining power. This could be profitable if future transaction volume is greater than current.
50/50 or win/win. All fake transaction should be limited in any way. From the other hand transactions that make startups on tau platform or transaction that allow growing up the tau community etc., should be awarded for example in lower fees.

TAU is a permission-less public chain, so it might be difficult to tell which transactions are "fake" and which are "start-up".

Maybe the blockchain can check if transactions are only from the same addresses mostly and therefore rewards from them could be limited. A transaction fee of 0.00250000 TAU can produce at least 40 transactions before fully burning 1TAU as tx fee so it will really be abused in the future. How about putting a limit to a transaction to be made between 2-4 addresses.? 
Addresses can be created off-chain for free.
3  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 26, 2018, 01:38:19 AM
TAUcoin debate daily topic 10/25/2018

Continuation of reward clipping discussion. Do you think it is fair for a user to gain profit from making transactions? For example, without reward clipping, one can send transactions between his own addresses to increase mining power. This could be profitable if future transaction volume is greater than current.
50/50 or win/win. All fake transaction should be limited in any way. From the other hand transactions that make startups on tau platform or transaction that allow growing up the tau community etc., should be awarded for example in lower fees.

TAU is a permission-less public chain, so it might be difficult to tell which transactions are "fake" and which are "start-up".
"Fake" is a transaction which overfed determined limit (day, month, year).
Startup makes a request to mods. Mods accepted startup account (accounts) and all transactions from it account is "start-up".

Time limit on "fake" transaction won't work if an entity creates lots of addresses (it's free).

Mods (foundation?) can grant "start-up" status, but this is a centralized solution.
4  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 25, 2018, 09:52:50 AM
TAUcoin debate daily topic 10/25/2018

Continuation of reward clipping discussion. Do you think it is fair for a user to gain profit from making transactions? For example, without reward clipping, one can send transactions between his own addresses to increase mining power. This could be profitable if future transaction volume is greater than current.
50/50 or win/win. All fake transaction should be limited in any way. From the other hand transactions that make startups on tau platform or transaction that allow growing up the tau community etc., should be awarded for example in lower fees.

TAU is a permission-less public chain, so it might be difficult to tell which transactions are "fake" and which are "start-up".
5  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 25, 2018, 09:49:38 AM
TAUcoin debate daily topic 10/25/2018

Continuation of reward clipping discussion. Do you think it is fair for a user to gain profit from making transactions? For example, without reward clipping, one can send transactions between his own addresses to increase mining power. This could be profitable if future transaction volume is greater than current.

We are using POT so why should we not give benefit for those who made transactions themselves? besides transaction fee has doubled in time when I first joined TAU community. I believe it is everybody's right to gain benefit from their transactions. If there should be a reward clipping mechanism, remaining balance out of the cap must be distributed fairly to everyone or by lottery or mining groups

This is the second school of thinking, although I don't like this idea (I might be wrong). Bitcoin's white paper only points out that mining power based on hash computation can prevent sybil attack. Nakamoto didn't say anything about evolution of mining power from CPU, GPU, FPGA to ASIC. We can choose to do nothing about for-profit transactions and see what happens under POT.
6  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 25, 2018, 09:43:03 AM
TAUcoin debate daily topic 10/25/2018

Continuation of reward clipping discussion. Do you think it is fair for a user to gain profit from making transactions? For example, without reward clipping, one can send transactions between his own addresses to increase mining power. This could be profitable if future transaction volume is greater than current.

No it isn't. Imagine if there is no limitation such as reward clipping, many users will abuse it cause they know that the more transactions increase the more mining power. I think the transaction should be in place such as peer to peer or more to say in a natural way not by doing this. 

This is the first school of thinking, and what I prefer. Making transactions solely for the purpose of profit should be stopped.
7  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 24, 2018, 11:31:48 PM
TAUcoin debate daily topic 10/25/2018

Continuation of reward clipping discussion. Do you think it is fair for a user to gain profit from making transactions? For example, without reward clipping, one can send transactions between his own addresses to increase mining power. This could be profitable if future transaction volume is greater than current.
8  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 24, 2018, 11:25:22 PM
TAUcoin debate daily topic 10/24/2018

What do you think of reward clipping in POT? For example, mining reward of every address is bounded by its total historical transaction fee paid. The goal is to discourage users from making transactions for future profit (mining reward).

Is there already a threshold for reward clipping? And what method are they using as basis? Should there be a ratio of tx fee to # of transactions?
Is it possible in the future to have a tx fee higher than the amount being transferred? if so, will it not go back to the miner as part of the block reward?

I suggest that a fix percentage of whatever value (e.g. 10% of tx fee) of the reward clipping cap should be established while the remaining balance be distributed throughout the mining cub members (90%)

A suggested reward clipping model has been put into white paper v0.4. Please read. The key idea is that any address cannot own more reward than it paid.
9  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 24, 2018, 07:40:31 AM
TAUcoin debate daily topic 10/24/2018

What do you think of reward clipping in POT? For example, mining reward of every address is bounded by its total historical transaction fee paid. The goal is to discourage users from making transactions for future profit (mining reward).

My opinion should establish a dynamic dependence of the transaction value on their number for a certain period of time (day, month, year). For example, the cost of a standard transaction is X tau. If the number of transactions, for example, is more than 100 per day, then 101, 102 and further transactions will cost 10X, more than 1000 -  1001, 1002… - 100X, etc.

That is an interesting suggestion, dynamic transaction fee based on volume. But it may bring unfairness to some users, or create bias by block generator.
10  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 24, 2018, 01:48:37 AM
TAUcoin debate daily topic 10/24/2018

What do you think of reward clipping in POT? For example, mining reward of every address is bounded by its total historical transaction fee paid. The goal is to discourage users from making transactions for future profit (mining reward).
11  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 24, 2018, 01:40:34 AM
TAUcoin debate daily topic 10/23/2018

What are the pros and cons for UTXO (BTC) and account based (ETH) systems?

As we know there are two broad groups with respect to the style of cryptocurrencies transactions UTXO (BTC) and account based (ETH).

In the UTXO transactions, each coin contains essentially two different pieces of data: ownership data, and the amount it represents. Transactions inductively spend outputs generated by previous transactions and create new unspent outputs, and there is no intrinsic notion of an account associated with an address.

In the account based transactions, the currency is spread among the multiple accounts of the system, each of which has a specific balance. Each address is seen as an account with a balance, and transactions are transfers of value from one account to another. Every transaction also contains a unique nonce to protect against replay attacks.

Pros for UTXO:
First, it allows transactions to be processed in parallel for different UTXOs and transactions can be processed in any order. These parallelizability and invariance property lead to scalability benefits.
Second, it is difficult to link accounts to each other because the user uses a new address for each transaction that they receive. It leads to a little higher degree of privacy.

Cons for UTXO:
The main one it is its complexity. Second UTXO basically suited only to asset issuance and transfer applications. It’s more difficult to successfully run smart contracts on it.

Pros for account based are simplicity and efficiency before UTXO.
Simplicity means that it opted for a more intuitive model for the benefit of developers of complex smart contracts.
Efficiency means that each transaction only needs to validate that the sending account has enough balance to pay for the transaction.

Cons for account based main one is a double spending attack. Every transaction must have a "nonce" and the account must keep track of the nonces used.

Some word about TAU. In my opinion TAU devs, team and rising up community should find own decision. Maybe it will combine UTXO and account based. Or it will something innovative brand-new like a Proof of Transaction consensus mechanism. Copies are always worse an original.

References
https://medium.com/@ConsenSys/thoughts-on-utxo-by-vitalik-buterin-2bb782c67e53
https://eprint.iacr.org/2018/513.pdf
https://eprint.iacr.org/2018/262.pdf


Nice summary.

Actually we are considering a mixed approach with UTXO and account.
12  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 23, 2018, 09:53:43 AM
TAUcoin debate daily topic 10/23/2018

What are the pros and cons for UTXO (BTC) and account based (ETH) systems?

 UTXO

1. Higher degree of privacy: if a user uses a new address for each transaction that they receive then it can be difficult to link accounts to each other. Although some wallets (JAXX eth) can have multiple addresses, this has not benen brought up yet with Eth official wallet. Once a transaction is done, though it is recorded there, one cannot do anything about it.
2. Potential scalability paradigms: UTXOs are more theoretically compatible with certain kinds of scalability paradigms in such that it uses only one proof of owner ship in the Merkle tree.
 
ETH accounts

1.Large space savings: because every transaction need only make one reference and one signature and produces one output unlike UTXO's that could probably have 2 more reference for output.
2. Greater fungibility: because there is no blockchain-level concept of the source of a specific set of coins, it becomes less practical to institute a redlist/blacklisting scheme. I believe freedom is one of the concept of Etheruem and creating a restriction on coins of where they come from is not invluded in their function.
3. Simplicity: it seems easier to code and understand, especially once more complex scripts become involved. Unlike UTXO, it doesn't require proof from the Merkle tree.
4. Constant light client reference: light clients can at any point access all data related to an account by scanning down the state tree in a specific direction. In UTXO paradigm, every transaction leads to another reference therefore crating a system with more privacy than ease of tracking.

So any ideas on which way TAU should go?
13  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 23, 2018, 08:08:49 AM
There certain stuff for Taucoin mobile mining to avoid problem such as Apple's censorship.

The taucoin mobile app that will be used for mining should be:

1. The app developers of the product are inside the company or organization. Must be part of the team.

2. Mobile mining via the device is still prohibited maybe if the mine activity could work out of the device, can taucoin team managed this?

3. Apps can help users make pay, trade, or receive cryptocurrency on an approved exchange, but the apps must be from the exchanges themselves.

4. The apps that will be interact by the mobile app should be legit for trading, or buying and selling. Must be govern by the Law.

5. The app shouldn't be used to offer users to earn virtual coin for completing task such as downloading some file or other app.


If all those mentioned provisions, can be made by Taucoin team, then we can  avoid such censorship upon launching a mobile mining app for taucoin. But you need to make a product first that consistent on their guidance and also sync on the objective of Taucoin project. If only android can be used for mobile mining then the chance to increase users for taucoin mining isnt that effective.

Im thinking as well how the system can transfer node and blocks from a mobile  which not rapidly drain battery when conducting mining. Still you will use power even you don't use proof of Pow.


Thanks for the suggestions. These actually are quite similar to Electroneum's mobile "mining" APP, except that theirs only offers simulation of mining. Another big problem is that Apple and Google currently ban mining APPs in their APP store.
14  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 23, 2018, 01:24:57 AM
TAUcoin debate daily topic 10/23/2018

What are the pros and cons for UTXO (BTC) and account based (ETH) systems?
15  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 22, 2018, 05:50:35 AM
TAUcoin debate daily topic 10/22/2018

As we are doing research on mobile mining, the first issue is communication. Peer to peer network forms the basis of Bitcoin. However, communication on mobile devices, such as phones and tablets, are usually managed by WWAN provider. Is it possible to build a peer to peer network for mobile devices? There already exist ad hoc solutions.

Today is supposedly the reopened of TauX but based on Imorpheus announcement, the team decide to postponed the exchange due to premature of the platform and the factor that taux cannot handle bulk amount as of the moment.

I think its possible to gain peer to peer on mobile there are lots of other projects already doing this will not mentioned all. We can't deny that some are disappointed with the postponed of the taux but the platform still need to be perfect yet and building a solid mainnet is a good move before releasing the taux. Also I noticed  encouragement to use peer to peer, on the announcement but this will not be easy for those holders. Why? In order to do a peer peer, there are lots of factor along the way such as trust, valuation of the coins, the taucoin doesn't have an ICO and the people cannot set the value of it properly. Scamming can rise from it due to no trust doing it with one another. At least escrow service for this is also good solution but it will hassle on both parties since they don't know or doesn't have idea about its current value.

I think the remedy for this is to linked on an external exchange or third-party liquidity platform so everyone can do the peer to peer with a system. I can see that taucoin needs massive transactions to rise potential value. But without an ecosystem where we can do it we cannot grow faster than expected.

Sorry that TAUX didn't work as expected. We need more mature platform and community.

Back to the daily topic. I was actually asking for ideas on mobile mining and its communication issue. That is, how we build a peer to peer network over which we send transactions and blocks, without potential censorship from App store (Apple) or WWAN service provider (Verizon).
16  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 22, 2018, 03:11:52 AM
TAUcoin debate daily topic 10/22/2018

As we are doing research on mobile mining, the first issue is communication. Peer to peer network forms the basis of Bitcoin. However, communication on mobile devices, such as phones and tablets, are usually managed by WWAN provider. Is it possible to build a peer to peer network for mobile devices? There already exist ad hoc solutions.
17  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 18, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Got it and looking forward to the development of the mobile mining. On the other way around,  how TauX exchange will be like? I saw some screenshot about BTC pool inside, looks like it will be like direct exchange for taucoin. Honestly I like a traditional exchange where in there are bid to buy and ask to sell option. There will be something like that? I like this cause we can see and monitor the volume about the trading. We need it so community can see what was the demand of the coin.

TAUX is a direct exchange between BTC and TAU, round based (360 blocks). We'll make most data open.

Congrats genie on the start of TauX I think its already a success. I can see that potential investors are really on the way, I.noticed it during the swapping of taucoin but dumpers are still many. But I don't think the second round will be the same. I salute all the team who made this possible. By the way, is there no limit on the BTC pool? I mean I think its much better if have at least minimum pool for btc before the swapping happen to preserve taucoin price. What do you think?

There are limits for both entering BTC pool and withdraw, perhaps 0.001BTC (not sure). If we take today's 1st round as its face value, many dumpers don't reach withdraw limit. Actually, even if one really wants to dump, 1st round is probably a lousy choice.

Sorry bugs arise in today's 1st round. Hope our tech team can fix them and TAUX will be online again tomorrow.
18  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 17, 2018, 10:00:54 AM
Got it and looking forward to the development of the mobile mining. On the other way around,  how TauX exchange will be like? I saw some screenshot about BTC pool inside, looks like it will be like direct exchange for taucoin. Honestly I like a traditional exchange where in there are bid to buy and ask to sell option. There will be something like that? I like this cause we can see and monitor the volume about the trading. We need it so community can see what was the demand of the coin.

TAUX is a direct exchange between BTC and TAU, round based (360 blocks). We'll make most data open.
19  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 17, 2018, 07:32:00 AM
Hello there what was the timeframe for the mobile mining? I think it's better to tie up with some firm that allready engage in this adpect of field? If you heard of Electroneum maybe Taucoin can follow the track they did for their mobile app regarding mobile mining. If full.node mining wont be supported so it cant fully compete on pc mining? It should be same with as POT is eco friendly mechanism right not unlike POW.

Thank you for your suggestions. I've heard of Electroneum but didn't look into details yet. Seems they need some POW, which is CPU memory friendly. Communication and latency is also a big problem. Seems Electroneum made partnership with many wireless service provider world wide.

Anyway, we are still in early stage of mobile mining research. No definite time frame yet.

----Edit below----
For mobile mining, Electroneum only simulates the mining process and rewards mobile device users from a pre-assigned pool. This improves "user experience" in some way, but their mobile mining actually has nothing to do with block generation or network security. PC based mining handles that job.
20  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months on: October 17, 2018, 01:34:05 AM
12 months debate on features and consensus is critical to get peer-reviewing on plan and constitution. So that 10 million TAU is reserved for this effort, 200K x 54 weeks.
Put entire network onto mobile platform is our vision and that is what need every expert to discuss. Decentralization also need consider how nodes hosted, if everyone hosted in AWS, that is not decentralized. If TAU network running on 1 million mobile nodes, that is true decentralized and permission-less.
However, there are huge technical barrier to achieve it. I could only say Proof of Transaction standing at best chance to accomplish it then POW.

Does mobile platform include mobile mining? If so, epoch rotation's cooldown must have a modification too.
TAU network running on millions of mobile nodes needs accuracy and speed. Also current mobile nodes have an external storage. A normal mobile cannot hold that much data when running a full node. A special support is also needed to maintain stability in connections as it moves from one network to another or a subnet to another.


We are still in early research stage for mobile mining. Storage space is certainly a major concern for mobile devices, along with communication. Full node mining probably won't be supported. Instead, some light mining mode will be developed.
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