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1  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin price vs. hash rate? on: June 27, 2014, 03:03:28 PM
While the above is all true, it does not take into account that the market for mining gear is a significant one for the use of bit coins. So to the extent that that market is influenced by the hash rate so to will the bitcoin price.
Spend some more time around here, and you'll slowly start to realize that this just isn't true.

It's almost completely parallel to the old gold rush adage that it's better to sell the shovels than to mine the gold. That's essentially what you described above. But it has practically zero effect on market price.

The topic of coins "hoarded" by miners indefinitely...sure, that does play an indirect role on the market price. But the whole "price vs. hash rate" discussions here are typically way off the mark.
2  Economy / Economics / Re: Cex.io: the largest Bitcoin cloud mining service, not a profitable investment on: June 24, 2014, 06:37:59 PM
Anyway, I don't know how to make the point any clearer: If 1 GH/s can mine X BTC, then it doesn't make sense for cex.io to sell it for less than X, and it doesn't make sense for a customer to buy it for more than X.

^^This, and end thread.

The biggest part of the problem is shown in this very thread; people are not doing the research to even see the forecast for how much this 1 GH/s will mine. That's ultimately what it boils down to.

I'm not understanding how people continue to flock to cloud mining, or BTC mining at all.
3  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin price vs. hash rate? on: June 24, 2014, 06:13:12 PM
no matter the hashrate and diff, new coins minted per day remain the same in general.
people often think that supply is shorted with the rise of difficulty, but actualy its the same, just more spread out between miners.
more interesting thing to talk about is next halving, if that doesnt move the price way up, nothing will.

It seems that there's no use in even trying to explain this to people on this forum.

Not to mention all of the "price will follow hashrate" comments. But please, yes - all of you should go buy more coins right now because the hashrate is continually rising.
4  Economy / Speculation / Re: In the eye of the storm.. on: June 17, 2014, 09:31:14 PM
I agree with #3 above.

With #4, I think it's best to not frame bitcoin's price rising relative to last year's ATH, which was potentially generated out of the beginnings of the ultimate Goxxing - I think it just needs to slowly rise in a less volatile fashion.

Hopefully more volume brings this, but maybe it won't.
5  Economy / Speculation / Re: We're not going anywhere, until the 51% question is answered on: June 11, 2014, 07:38:41 PM
GHash generated 7 of 12 blocks since 0:00 UTC today. It means 58%.
No, it doesn't.
6  Economy / Speculation / Re: Some Bearish Observations. on: June 10, 2014, 09:14:15 PM
More sure, in fact, than you are that HODL will work for the pure HODLers.
I'm fairly sure that Mat is not sure of the HODL strategy in the slightest.
7  Economy / Speculation / Re: 2014-06-04 Crash on: June 04, 2014, 05:08:39 PM
Agreed.

I wish their was a 'Rather' app for this forum for posts containing "manipulation" and "what caused the price to _____."
8  Economy / Speculation / Re: New China Ban incoming on: June 04, 2014, 04:49:21 PM
Fonzie: One of the best candidates to go on anyone's ignore list.
9  Economy / Economics / Re: Why would sales in Bitcoins decline on Overstock? on: June 03, 2014, 06:04:29 PM
I believe most people would rather hold onto their bitcoins and just purchase goods with cash simply due to the fact that the bitcoin value can skyrocket at any time and that $1,000 tv you just purchased for 2 BTC would be $2,000 worth of BTC or more in a short period of time. Cash doesn't fluctuate in value like bitcoin does.
This. This is the real, sensible answer.

Add to the fact that the coins are typicially just immediately dumped, and it's a no-brainer.

10  Economy / Speculation / Re: Why are psychics bearish on bitcoin? on: June 02, 2014, 08:21:00 PM
My psychic is not a trader and knew nothing at all about bitcoin before the reading.  ( I don't know about those other psychics I posted about though)
TERA, your posts of late have been epic slow trolls.

It's like guerrilla Proudhon tactics. Well done.
11  Economy / Economics / Re: What every miner should know about on: April 21, 2014, 02:19:38 PM
You're doing it again.

There's a perfectly parallel example to what you just described - buying X amount of coins, but only trading a small ratio of them.

Psychologically it may seem to be a benefit to you personally in the area of mitigating risk. But if you never break even on the original capital (plus electricity), it's a bad investment in hindsight. And I do understand where you're coming from; I have a 2 m/hash Scrypt rig that's been online since early December. And I live in a state that has some of the lowest electricity rates in the USA. The electricity costs are not negligible.

*Edit -Obviously the most redeeming quality of Scrypt mining on a PC is that the components have quality resale value. It definitely has that going for it.
12  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: a brief update, regarding that China thingy on: April 18, 2014, 07:51:26 PM
What kind of data do you have that supports your view that we " don't need " China and the rest of the world? I would go as far as to say China was a major catalyst for the rise of bitcoins. Using pure logic would get you to a rudimentary conclusion that we need all the support we can get and that would include the most populous nation on earth.
Look at it this way: Although China does have roughly 20% of the world's population, total global adoption of bitcoin is currently at an incredibly small ratio.

Even if China were to completely exit from the market, if adoption continues along its current trend line in the majority of the rest of the world, the figures for both bitcoin's price and usage have incredible potential.

This obsession over the short term effects that China's role plays is actually the illogical part.
13  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bank of China closes another bitcoin exchange account today on: April 18, 2014, 06:25:44 PM
Such translate, much irrelevant.

14  Economy / Economics / Re: What every miner should know about on: April 18, 2014, 04:29:12 PM
Having mining equipment lets me speculate on many different coins. Naturally when I bought the equipment I was (and still am) gambling on making enough profit simply by mining, to profit over the cost of the equipment, in addition to any profit from price increases.
Only in the same sense that having dollars that can be used to buy bitcoin on an exchange which is then exchanged for many different coins lets you speculate on many different coins.

I don't think that anybody is bashing mining here. The point is to drive home the principle of whether or not the initial investment capital could have yielded more wealth by simply buying coins.

Scrypt mining doesn't give any more flexibility to get moar coinz than does buying them with bitcoin. It might be enjoyable, it might be a good way to learn more about building a PC, etc. But it doesn't necessarily afford any benefits over buying coins. Especially since GPUs suck a lot of electricity, which also has to be factored into opportunity cost. Even the electricity used by ASIC gear is not negligible in the calculation.
15  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin is a weapon on: April 18, 2014, 03:35:29 PM
Your "prediction" is a bitcoin price of $40,000 in December 2014.

If you believe this, you're pumping every last cent of the fiat currency of your choice into bitcoin, yes?

16  Economy / Speculation / Re: It's almost 6AM in Beijing, China and looks like someone is trying to pump... on: April 18, 2014, 03:25:36 PM
Gotcha. And that is a good piece of advice.

The reason I asked about orders not triggering in your own personal trading is this - you started out trading with roughly $20K USD, correct? That is in my opinion a good chunk to trade with.

I'm genuinely curious if you had ever considered making a larger number of "micro" trades on the swings (referring to going long), as opposed to holding out for longer periods, thus generating more risk.

But I suppose if orders don't get triggered, that's only really a viable strategy if one can sit in front of a computer 16 hours a day.
17  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin is a weapon on: April 18, 2014, 02:14:50 PM
Threads like these just completely ruin this community.

OP, show proof that you're selling everything you own to buy bitcoins to put your bitcoins where your mouth is, or gtfo.
18  Economy / Speculation / Re: It's almost 6AM in Beijing, China and looks like someone is trying to pump... on: April 17, 2014, 05:20:30 PM
Mat, have you ever gotten screwed out of a stop-loss order on any of the exchanges?
19  Economy / Speculation / Re: BREAKING NEWS. (MORE) CHINA BANKS BANS ON APRIL 18TH on: April 17, 2014, 03:59:19 PM
I believe the community is becoming more immune to these constant "China's going to ban bitcoin" scares.

You can feel the change in sentiment; this shit just doesn't concern people as much as it did three months ago. Which is a good thing.
20  Economy / Economics / Re: What every miner should know about on: April 17, 2014, 03:43:51 PM
People who mined, held for a bit, and sold, could have made some MASSIVE profits.

I don't sell anything, I mine and hold. And hold. And hold. I'm waiting for a massive gain or nothing at all. It's pointless to me to mine and sell immediately for like what, $20/day profit and dropping every couple weeks?
But as odolvlobo points out very clearly, the gains come from holding those coins, not from mining them.

And since the majority buy their rigs in fiat, it begs the question of why one wouldn't just buy and hold bitcoin, as opposed to mining.
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