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1041  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-14 Bitcoin Miners Are Racking Up $150,000 A Day In Power Consumption... on: April 16, 2013, 08:15:23 PM
But still I think a fundamental equation holds that the market will balance when:

rate of mining income = rate of capital repayment + rate of profit + electrical power cost

Can we agree on that?

Over the long run, yes.

the rate of electricity consumed will remain broadly proportional to USD/BTC. i.e. even if ASICS turn out to be 3 times more efficient over their lifetime, that won't compensate for the price of BTC increasing 1000 times.

Absolutely, if there is a doubling in the exchange rate, there will be a proportional increase in the amount of electricity consumed, unless further efficiency from hardware design can (and likely will) come.   I had expected the cost of hardware to drop as higher quantities are produced but with demand far outstripping supply we're not there yet.  But regardless of the proportion, you are correct.  A higher exchange rate will cause a greater amount of electricity to be consumed.

There was handwaving about this in the media as early as 2010 when most mining was on CPUs, ... with projections that if bitcoin caught on it would consumer a quarter of all the world's electricity demand (or some whack number like that).  Even using the power draw if all mining were done on GPUs today, daily power consumption is a fraction of the daily energy consumed at even one gold mine (my assertion, without actually having calculated it but I've literally stood under the trucks that mine ore and can say with confidence that moving dirt around consumes one hell of a lot of energy.)
1042  Economy / Goods / Re: Feeding Bitcoiners across the US on: April 16, 2013, 07:27:25 PM
Alright alright, I didn't know that there was an eating in restaurant option!

Is that really offered?   Then why do they only show takeout / delivery on the site?
1043  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Payment Processor That Gives Payouts in Bitcoin? on: April 16, 2013, 04:25:56 AM
I'm looking for a credit card processor that pays out in Bitcoins rather then wire transfers.

Nothing works like this, but others have asked:

Looking to accept USD and transfer to Bitcoin

Real money to Bitcoin payment processor

Where (country) are you (i.e., country?)  
1044  Bitcoin / Technical Support / Re: Any reason the receiver wouldnt be showing funds I sent? on: April 16, 2013, 03:51:44 AM
Thanks for posting this. I was about too.

I don't know if this helps at all or not but here is what my account looks like I'm missing the transaction mentioned above for .171. It should appear at the top of the list.

You didn't mention which client.

If that is Multibit, try reset:
1045  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What chain of events made bitcoin crash/drop? on: April 16, 2013, 12:38:25 AM
it will just rise up to fast so no one will use it to buy products because 1 day you can be paying $100 and the next you just paid $200 due to the bull market.

Care to answer why FedEx and UPS have dropped off packages today then?  (ordered a week ago today, as the exchange rate was rising).

Incidentally, I've not made a single purchase using bitcoins since the selloff began.

This would seem to be counter to the hoarding argument.  I make more purchases with bitcoins when I think the exchange rate is too high. 
1046  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-14 Bitcoin Miners Are Racking Up $150,000 A Day In Power Consumption... on: April 16, 2013, 12:16:25 AM
There will be a tendency for the same electrical power to be used whatever the technology. ASICS just go faster for the same power.

I doubt that.

It might cost $400 for a GPU that burns over $400 per year in electricity.  So given a 2 year useful life of the GPU, about a third of the mining costs are incurred for the hardware cost and two-thirds are attributed to the electricity.

With a $5K Avalon ASIC, that chews $780 per year in electricity.   So given the same 2 year useful life, about three-quarters of the mining costs are incurred for the hardware cost and just one quarter is attributed to the electricity.

So over time the tendency will be for mining to reach break-even, then at that point two to three times more electricity will be consumed when mining is on GPUs versus when on ASICs [Edit: at the same BTC/USD revenue level].
1047  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin-QT: System Error: Database Corrupted on: April 15, 2013, 11:56:41 PM
Can my coins somehow be retrieved?

If you made a backup, try that first. (Well, make a backup of the possibly bad wallet.dat before restoring anything).

Or try importing it here and then if that works, start over with a new, empty wallet.dat and send the funds back.
1048  Bitcoin / Technical Support / Re: Weird bug: old BTC transactions suddenly become not confirmed? on: April 15, 2013, 11:35:00 PM
I have a bunch of old BTC transactions between 4/10 and 4/12 that were confirmed long ago.  But somehow today, they all suddenly appeared as not confirmed.  Newer transactions are not affected.

Any ideas what's going on?

A confirmed transaction can drop to unconfirmed if was double spent when a block reorg had a different transaction.   That doesn't happen a whole lot, and the transactions affected during the March 11th hard fork were the only ones since 2010 that a transaction with six confirmations on the longest chain reverted to being unconfirmed.

So if you had a confirmed transaction revert, it would have had just one confirmation most likely,

Check to see if the payments show on
1049  Bitcoin / Meetups / Re: SoCAL BITCOINERS Poll: Where to meet??? on: April 15, 2013, 11:04:07 PM
cool, I just rsvpd for the meetup on monday.

Any report on how that went?

Also, heads-up:

Next week in Southern California (Los Angeles and/or San Diego, I couldn't make it out), the first Bitcoin ATM will be deployed [Edit: demonstrated].
1050  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-15: Fox Business: Bitcon Crash Coming? Jeff Berwick Interview on: April 15, 2013, 11:02:06 PM
I'ld like to know more about where this ATM (s) will be in Southern California.

1051  Bitcoin / Alternative clients / Re: Bitcoin wallet for feature phones on: April 15, 2013, 09:35:52 PM
You can access it here:

Very, very nice!

How about a secure (SSL) site?
 -  [Edit: the mobile site itself is secured with SSL.]

Also, the domain is registered with privacy protection.  Who is the operator (i.e., you personally, or a company/LLC)?  

And security of E-Wallet, ... are coins kept in cold storage with a hot wallet?
1052  Economy / Goods / Re: Feeding Bitcoiners across the US on: April 15, 2013, 08:47:51 PM
PM me if you want a referral code.

Oh, cool, affiliate program:
1053  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin anarchy in need of some rules | NY Post on: April 15, 2013, 12:43:38 PM
Members of the bitcoin community are starting to wonder if anarchy is the best policy,

We don't have anarchy.    Competing exchanges have been regulated out of existance. shut down hours after FinCEN guidance was released saying they would be classified as a money transmitter.  If we had anarchy, BitMe would still be taking cash and selling bitcoins.

If he had anarchy, then the operators of ICBIT exchange would be willing to share info like who they are and where they are located.  Because trading of futures contracts is a regulated activity in most areas they operate anonymously.   When the exchange rate was skyrocketing, over the past weeks there was lots of interest in buying contracts but there wasn't much liquidity.  Part of the reason is counterparty risk - who feels comfortable sending larger amounts of bitcoins to sites operated anonymously?

If we had anarchy, or just free markets even, we wouldn't have had such a spike to $266 because hedging and shorting would have absorbed the upward pressure and then on the way down short covering would have provided support rather than seeing a drop to mid-double digits.

We need LESS regulation, not more.  We need MORE freedom to transact among ourselves without intervention.
1054  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Bitcoin via Txt: PhoneACoin! on: April 15, 2013, 11:50:21 AM
...I may have wasted my time, unless people find the services like automatic FX rate conversion and the ability to pull the prevailing exchange rate via SMS useful.  I also intend to add services like FX rate and GoxLag notifications, should interest present itself.

No, you most definitely did not waste your time.

There is one risk though.  What if an evil network engineer for the mobile carrier is sniffing and/or intercepting the SMS traffic.  What risk of loss occurs?
1055  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-15 Bitcoin Isn’t the Only Cryptocurrency in Town on: April 15, 2013, 11:42:39 AM
And there was a Tweet:

@jonmatonis @techreview PPCoin is a premined scam coin~King has mined more coins in 1st week than all time since:

by Flibbr Marketplace ‏@flibbr
1056  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-15 Bitcoin Isn’t the Only Cryptocurrency in Town on: April 15, 2013, 11:41:12 AM

Currencies designed to fix perceived flaws in Bitcoin could lead to competition that makes the idea of digital “cryptocurrency” stick.

I commented in the article:

Litecoin is a proof-of-work based currency just as Bitcoin is.  That means it is also vulnerable to a 51% attack, just like bitcoin is. 

However, to reach 51% of hashing capacity with Bitcoin you need tens of millions of dollars worth of GPUs and FPGAs (ASICs would work too and cost less even but every one produced is already allocated to buyers and thus delivery is not available).

For Litecoin, that number necessary is much less, a fraction of a million dollars, or much less even due to Litecoin pools not being mature and able to remain up during a DDoS attack.

The steel door of a bank vault needs to be just as thick whether it stores inside just one million dollars of funds or two billion dollars.    The same scenario is at play here.

So Litecoin simply is not simply a less costly sibling that using a different hashing method, it is a completely different animal when you consider the risk profile.
1057  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Mt Gox - Setting "sell" price in non US currency - how does that work? on: April 15, 2013, 10:53:56 AM
I am wanting to set everything on Mt Gox up in my local currency (Aus) because from what I understand it saves me from various conversion charges. 

But if I put up a sell price in Aus dollars, how will that work with buyers?  Will it limit my potential to sell internationally?  Or will Mt Gox system just automatically adjust it to the currency of the bidders?

Essentially, your sell order will only be taken by buyers paying with the AUD in their wallet.  There is some chance that a bid on another market (e.g., BTC/USD) is so high that Mt. Gox will do the conversion and buy your BTC/AUD offer and they would pay in AUD even though the buyer had a different currency.   Arbitrage is what keeps the various markets relatively equal in price. (after considering the AUD/USD.)
1058  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What chain of events made bitcoin crash/drop? on: April 15, 2013, 10:39:16 AM
Could it have been all related?

Well, nearly everything that goes parabolic has to stop.  If it had stopped at $80 it would have crashed after that rise too.  It just went way, way much further than most anyone would have imagined.

There are a ton of people who have an opinion one way or another.

More than 1.2 million BTC have traded since we saw $266, an incredibly huge quantity. 

But one thing nobody is discussing is the impact of the discontinuance of the redeemable codes at Mt. Gox.

A lot of over-the-counter trading used these.   A lot of exchange arbitrage occurring used these as well.

That may have contributed to the rise in the exchange rate prior to April 10th.   Those who had USDs and used redeemable codes for withdrawals needed to move the funds out before April 10th and traded at some point.   Every trade has a counterparty so suddenly there was a lot of MTG USDs received by traders that had exchanged cash for them.   It is possible they were the ones buying bitcoins using these newly acquired funds.

So that might explain the buying that was occurring even though the parabolic rise was glaringly obvious.  Simply when that activity stopped (when issuance of new redeemable codes stopped) then the absence of new buying simply let gravity bring down the exchange rate, and that happened swiftly.
1059  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The UK Public & Bitcoin on: April 15, 2013, 09:32:16 AM
So are the major banks disabling bank transfers to Bitcoin exchanges or are they using courts and the legal system to do the dirty work?

Well, Max Keiser is building a UK exchange now -- so they must have some bank willing to play along.

But until then, simply bypass GBP by converting it to EUR:

Which exchanges allow me to transfer funds from my TransferWise account?

Or, ... other methods include:

Bitcoin Fridge (re-opened):
1060  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Does Bitfinex have a competitor? on: April 15, 2013, 08:58:41 AM
I couldn't find where else to place this so if it gets moved I understand.  I'm wondering if Bitfinex has a competitor that also offers the service of margin trading / going short and the lending associated with either of those.



The problem is that these financial products are regulated activities in most jurisdictions.  For that reason, some of these services are operated anonymously or pseudonymously.  That introduces counterparty risk.

Keep an eye on and as well.
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