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1081  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin anarchy in need of some rules | NY Post on: April 15, 2013, 12:43:38 PM
Members of the bitcoin community are starting to wonder if anarchy is the best policy,

We don't have anarchy.    Competing exchanges have been regulated out of existance. shut down hours after FinCEN guidance was released saying they would be classified as a money transmitter.  If we had anarchy, BitMe would still be taking cash and selling bitcoins.

If he had anarchy, then the operators of ICBIT exchange would be willing to share info like who they are and where they are located.  Because trading of futures contracts is a regulated activity in most areas they operate anonymously.   When the exchange rate was skyrocketing, over the past weeks there was lots of interest in buying contracts but there wasn't much liquidity.  Part of the reason is counterparty risk - who feels comfortable sending larger amounts of bitcoins to sites operated anonymously?

If we had anarchy, or just free markets even, we wouldn't have had such a spike to $266 because hedging and shorting would have absorbed the upward pressure and then on the way down short covering would have provided support rather than seeing a drop to mid-double digits.

We need LESS regulation, not more.  We need MORE freedom to transact among ourselves without intervention.
1082  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Bitcoin via Txt: PhoneACoin! on: April 15, 2013, 11:50:21 AM
...I may have wasted my time, unless people find the services like automatic FX rate conversion and the ability to pull the prevailing exchange rate via SMS useful.  I also intend to add services like FX rate and GoxLag notifications, should interest present itself.

No, you most definitely did not waste your time.

There is one risk though.  What if an evil network engineer for the mobile carrier is sniffing and/or intercepting the SMS traffic.  What risk of loss occurs?
1083  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-15 Bitcoin Isn’t the Only Cryptocurrency in Town on: April 15, 2013, 11:42:39 AM
And there was a Tweet:

@jonmatonis @techreview PPCoin is a premined scam coin~King has mined more coins in 1st week than all time since:

by Flibbr Marketplace ‏@flibbr
1084  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-15 Bitcoin Isn’t the Only Cryptocurrency in Town on: April 15, 2013, 11:41:12 AM

Currencies designed to fix perceived flaws in Bitcoin could lead to competition that makes the idea of digital “cryptocurrency” stick.

I commented in the article:

Litecoin is a proof-of-work based currency just as Bitcoin is.  That means it is also vulnerable to a 51% attack, just like bitcoin is. 

However, to reach 51% of hashing capacity with Bitcoin you need tens of millions of dollars worth of GPUs and FPGAs (ASICs would work too and cost less even but every one produced is already allocated to buyers and thus delivery is not available).

For Litecoin, that number necessary is much less, a fraction of a million dollars, or much less even due to Litecoin pools not being mature and able to remain up during a DDoS attack.

The steel door of a bank vault needs to be just as thick whether it stores inside just one million dollars of funds or two billion dollars.    The same scenario is at play here.

So Litecoin simply is not simply a less costly sibling that using a different hashing method, it is a completely different animal when you consider the risk profile.
1085  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Mt Gox - Setting "sell" price in non US currency - how does that work? on: April 15, 2013, 10:53:56 AM
I am wanting to set everything on Mt Gox up in my local currency (Aus) because from what I understand it saves me from various conversion charges. 

But if I put up a sell price in Aus dollars, how will that work with buyers?  Will it limit my potential to sell internationally?  Or will Mt Gox system just automatically adjust it to the currency of the bidders?

Essentially, your sell order will only be taken by buyers paying with the AUD in their wallet.  There is some chance that a bid on another market (e.g., BTC/USD) is so high that Mt. Gox will do the conversion and buy your BTC/AUD offer and they would pay in AUD even though the buyer had a different currency.   Arbitrage is what keeps the various markets relatively equal in price. (after considering the AUD/USD.)
1086  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What chain of events made bitcoin crash/drop? on: April 15, 2013, 10:39:16 AM
Could it have been all related?

Well, nearly everything that goes parabolic has to stop.  If it had stopped at $80 it would have crashed after that rise too.  It just went way, way much further than most anyone would have imagined.

There are a ton of people who have an opinion one way or another.

More than 1.2 million BTC have traded since we saw $266, an incredibly huge quantity. 

But one thing nobody is discussing is the impact of the discontinuance of the redeemable codes at Mt. Gox.

A lot of over-the-counter trading used these.   A lot of exchange arbitrage occurring used these as well.

That may have contributed to the rise in the exchange rate prior to April 10th.   Those who had USDs and used redeemable codes for withdrawals needed to move the funds out before April 10th and traded at some point.   Every trade has a counterparty so suddenly there was a lot of MTG USDs received by traders that had exchanged cash for them.   It is possible they were the ones buying bitcoins using these newly acquired funds.

So that might explain the buying that was occurring even though the parabolic rise was glaringly obvious.  Simply when that activity stopped (when issuance of new redeemable codes stopped) then the absence of new buying simply let gravity bring down the exchange rate, and that happened swiftly.
1087  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The UK Public & Bitcoin on: April 15, 2013, 09:32:16 AM
So are the major banks disabling bank transfers to Bitcoin exchanges or are they using courts and the legal system to do the dirty work?

Well, Max Keiser is building a UK exchange now -- so they must have some bank willing to play along.

But until then, simply bypass GBP by converting it to EUR:

Which exchanges allow me to transfer funds from my TransferWise account?

Or, ... other methods include:

Bitcoin Fridge (re-opened):
1088  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Does Bitfinex have a competitor? on: April 15, 2013, 08:58:41 AM
I couldn't find where else to place this so if it gets moved I understand.  I'm wondering if Bitfinex has a competitor that also offers the service of margin trading / going short and the lending associated with either of those.



The problem is that these financial products are regulated activities in most jurisdictions.  For that reason, some of these services are operated anonymously or pseudonymously.  That introduces counterparty risk.

Keep an eye on and as well.
1089  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Bitcoin via Txt: PhoneACoin! on: April 15, 2013, 08:41:14 AM
Edit: wanted to ask how do we know you won't just run off with the coinz ?

Good question.  Any #bitcoin-otc trust history?
1090  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-4-11 Bitcoin’s big crash: Why you must know about this digital currency on: April 15, 2013, 07:08:51 AM

This was an AP article by Raphael Satter that appeared in a lot of newspapers across the country last week.  Including Techland on Time:


1091  Economy / Services / Re: Bitcoin paychecks on: April 15, 2013, 06:35:56 AM
Wondering what the best way (if any at the moment), would be to get your DD'd checks as Bitcoin payouts?

You don't mention where you are. 

To receive a direct deposit you'ld need your own account number with a financial service.  There are currently no financial services that have a direct path to Bitcoin.

In the U.S., if you have a bank account, you can simply do a Dwolla transfer from that account and from there do a Dwolla account-to-account transfer to Mt. Gox or Camp BX to buy coins.

If you don't have a bank account you can use a prepaid debit card type of account which has direct deposit capability, and do the same thing with a Dwolla transfer.  I believe Western Union's prepaid debit card allows this as does Walmart's MoneyCard.   [I'm not 100% sure that you can set up ACH to pull from your debit card account though.  If neither does, then I think American Express's Bluebird prepaid card does. ]    Coming soon are mobile-only bank accounts like Green Dot's GoBank which will allow Dwolla to pull funds via ACH.

Coinbase also can do an ACH pull from an account however their service has tight limits while it is trying to keep up to market demand.

In the EU, Bitcoin-Central has described how it will have EUR accounts with a financial partner, and that would be a way to receive SEPA payments directly to the accountholder's exchange account.
1092  Economy / Economics / Re: Why Bitcoin Is Going to Succeed: The Reason Nobody Is Talking About on: April 15, 2013, 04:24:43 AM
We already have more "working employees", all incentivized with "stock options", than they EVER will.

Yup, and here's an article by BitPay's Tony G in which he was describing how owning bitcoins is like investing in the whole Bitcoin ecosystem:

The niche bitcoin space is unlike anything in history. It’s not necessary to invest in a Bitcoin startup in order to profit from the space. Many bitcoin companies are self-funded and the capital requirements are low. By simply owning bitcoins, you can profit from the success of every bitcoin company. There’s no need to pick the winners. BTC is the investment that gives you exposure to the currency, to the payment network, and to every business building products and services on top of bitcoin.

How Owning Bitcoin Is Owning An ETF On The Whole Bitcoin Space

You must understand, this is the first project of it's kind in human history. All these petty beginning-stage problems will be overcome - why? Simply because because for the first time we all WANT them to be overcome. You must account for the solutions to problems that we don't understand yet - because they are being attacked by a motivated workforce quality we have never seen before. The problems will eventually be solved, and this is why Bitcoin will make it to the mainstream.

Well, this isn't the first time that mass collaboration around an open protocol has changed the world.  You might have heard of things like Wikipedia, or the world wide web itself -- both great examples of this.  Look up Don Tapscott's work for more on this.

What is unique to Bitcoin is the others all were mostly web-based/online.   There will be a growing amount of collaboration with a local impact.  Patronizing a merchant versus that merchant's competitors specifically because that merchant accepts bitcoin is something that will be recognized at the local level.  Here's an example of someone drawing from the global Bitcoin community to provide local help:


What is also unique to Bitcoin is that with other mass collaborations, the contributor generally receives no compensation or receives less compensation than could be obtained through other means.  The mass of collaborators were mostly participating as a labor of love.  Bitcoin could be the first mass collaboration that is financially rewarding to nearly all participants.  Bitcoin could be so rewarding to where the collaborator can justify allocating greater and greater involvement -- including obtaining all income needs as a result of that collaborative work.

Stepping back and looking at this "mass collaboration", it is simply the re-discovery of the concept of free markets.
1093  Economy / Goods / Re: Feeding Bitcoiners across the US on: April 15, 2013, 03:40:06 AM
Valid at all 12,041 Foodler restaurants!

This is how we win.   Foodler went out on a limb to begin accepting bitcoins.   Now it is up to us to patronize them by ordering from those restaurants through Foodler.  When the decision to accept bitcoin as payment equates to increased revenues, then the trickle of merchants we have now will turn into a steady stream of merchants coming onboard.  Which in turn creates incentive for the supply chain to begin accepting bitcoins as payment from the individual merchants who can save versus converting all of their coins to cash.   Close the loop.

The list of restaurants could fill out a little more but I'm going to go a little out of the way to get to one to be able to try this ... my first food order purchase paid for with bitcoins.
1094  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-14 Bitcoin Miners Are Racking Up $150,000 A Day In Power Consumption... on: April 15, 2013, 02:25:46 AM
Assumption: 50% of this will be spent on electricity, and the remaining 50% on paying off mining hardware, profit, etc.

Instead of pulling numbers out of thin air lets use upper and lower bounds.

GPUs are the least efficient.  ASICs are the most efficient.

If all mining was ATI 5970s (a relatively decent GPU), then there would need to be about 81,000 of them to make up today's 61 Thash/s.   Each consumes about 350W, (e.g., you can put three in a box with a 1200W power supply and end up drawing about 1,050W).  So that is 28.35kW, running a full day gives 680,400 kWh.  At $0.15 per kWh, thats about $102,060 per day in electricity.  

So that's the upper bound.  I would guess that in reality less than 1/3rd of hashing today is done on GPUs.   So that's $33K USD today from GPUs, plus a fraction of that for FPGAs and and even smaller fraction for a third of that 61T hashing coming from ASICs.

If instead all mining was done on ASICs, then let's use for the math the Avalon ASIC which does 60 Ghashs and draws 600W.  So if all mining was on those there would be about 1,016 of them needed.  That is 609 kW, running a full day gives 14,630 kWh.  At $0.15 per kWh that's $2,194 per day in electricity.  

And that's the low end.  

So an educated guess would say today that total cost to power all bitcoin mining today should be a number less than $50K, and will probably end up in the range of $15K to $25K per day one ASICs have shot difficulty up to about 500 Thash/s.   (And BFL's ASICs are more efficient on power consumption than Avalons so even at that level the amount for power could be less.)
1095  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE on: April 14, 2013, 11:19:31 PM
Total volume of the contract: $754550

The exact same volume for the last two BTCUSDs?

Total volume for this contract is $754550.

Here's a summary of the settled contracts:

Dec 15, 2012: BTCUSD-12.12 (BUZ2) Total volume: $500,000, Final settlement: $13.4870
Mar 15, 2013: BTCUSD-3.13 (BUH3) Total volume: $754,550, Final settlement: $47.0764
Apr 14, 2013: BTC/USD-4.13 (BUJ3) Total volume: $754,550, Final settlement: $98.94082

Feb 15, 2013: GOLD-02.13 (GDG3) Total volume: 268 contracts, Final settlement: 65.0314 BTC ($1634.30 USD)
Apr 14, 2013: GOLD-04.13 (GDJ3) Total volume: 119 contracts, Final settlement: 15.23 BTC ($1507.0 USD)

Feb 15, 2013: OIL-02.13 (CLG3) Total volume: 1513 contracts, Final settlement: 3.8709 BTC ($97.28 USD).
Apr 14, 2013: OIL-04.13 (CLJ3) Total volume: 187 contracts, Final settlement: 0.9169 BTC ($90.72)

BUZ2 volume obtained from news release:
1096  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: BEWARE!!! Bitinstant -> Mt.Gox Deposit Changes on: April 14, 2013, 08:55:33 PM
Its too late for me, as I already tried prefixing an "M" and suffixing and "X" to the account number shown. This was accepted by Bitinstant, but it appears the funds will never make it into my account (maybe someone else just received a gift). I contacted Mt.Gox about this issue, but I'm not really holding my breath.

Chill, dude.

That account format change isn't what the disclaimer is referring to.    If you used the old format they still know which account to credit.

The disclaimer is there because people were careless and entering the wrong number ... a number that matches someone else's account.

So as long as you have the correct digits for your account number entered, you won't lose anything -- it just might be delayed as the automated method might be looking for the new formatting.
1097  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Is mtgox going to offer USD coupon codes sometime soon? on: April 14, 2013, 07:29:52 PM
anything on when this will be coming back?

Mt. Gox has discontinued all redeemable codes.  The reason given is "legal issues".

MtGox generation of USD redeemable codes will stop at 10 Apr 2013
1098  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: MtGox generation of USD redeemable codes will stop at 10 Apr 2013 on: April 14, 2013, 07:29:03 PM
There is one workaround and that is to create throwaway accounts.

So you create an account specifically with the intention of sharing the username and password with your trading party.  You wouldn't want the account to get flagged as needing verification so the amounts you would hold in it would need to be under the levels that non-verified accounts are allowed to transfer.

This lets you lock in a certain amount of USDs and transfer that value as dollars to someone else by giving the username and password to them.  Then that person completes the verification steps to withdraw the dollars  (or use the funds to buy bitcoins at a later time).   Since most people already have a Mt. Gox account, trying to get verification on a second account at Mt. Gox would likely bring closer scrutiny and/or [Edit: be a violation of their user agreement and possibly] see the funds getting frozen.  

Also, there's the chance the person who funded the account will claim the account was lost due to identity fraud (hacker gaining username/password) after trading it away and possibly regain access to the funds.   So this isn't a method two parties who don't have trust in each other would want to follow.

But it might be a way to separate off some bitcoins into multiple accounts, convert them to dollars to lock in a certain amount of value in USDs, and then later trade those USDs away.

That's nowhere near as convenient as the redeemable codes, but it is an option.

Of course, other exchanges still have account-to-account (A2A) transfers, if the need is simply a USD-denominated store of value that can be easily transferred to and from BTCs:

1099  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013_04_03 - TWiT.TV - Security Now_398 on: April 14, 2013, 01:47:29 AM
Leo starts very Bitcoin-negative, which he usually seems,

You'ld think that in the  two years plus since Leo first "didn't get it" (after the exchange rate first reached parity with the dollar) that he'ld get it by now.

Of course, this has nothing to do with technology and all to do with politics.  And he's entitled to his opinion.

1100  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: - Canadian Bitcoin Exchange now LIVE on: April 13, 2013, 11:23:53 PM
There have been some updates that didn't make it here so I'm posting them below:

April 2, 2013, 12:46 p.m. - RBC Cash Deposits Closing, Cash Processing and EMT Changes

1. Our Royal Bank account will be closing on April 5, 2013. Cash payments will no longer be accepted at any RBC branch after April 5, 2013. You may still make cash payments to BMO and Scotiabank. Bill payments are not affected by this close. 2. As a result of the closure of RBC, email money transfer fees will be raised from $10 to $20 starting April 5, 2013. We advise all customers to use the direct deposit method to withdraw CAD from their VirtEx account. Unverified users can use direct deposit to withdraw up to $5000 per day and $10,000 per month. 3. We are no longer processing RUSH cash payments, instead, we are increasing the number of times we process cash each day.

April 6, 2013, 11:03 a.m. - Important Customer Service Update

Due to the increase in BTC trading volume and price, VirtEx is busy! We are working hard to get back to each voicemail and email, process payments quickly and are in the process of hiring new team members. Direct deposit and bill payments have been taking about 3 business days to complete. If you are new to VirtEx, please check out the videos on our YouTube channel about depositing funds and trading before contacting us as many of your questions are likely answered in the videos. We appreciate your business and thank you for your patience.


We are responding to every e-mail and voice-mail and currently have a list of 400 customers to get back to due to the high volatility. We have also just hired 6 more staff dedicated to customer service and account verifications. The most common inquires we get are from people failing to read the Deposits and Withdraw Funds link above fully. We also have a youtube video Depositing with VirtEx, please watch this video as well as the trading video on our channel by clicking on the youtube icon above. If you have made a cash deposit you MUST have a corresponding open deposit request shown on Deposit Funds when logged into your account, this involves pressing DEPOSIT and then CONFIRM on the next page. We do not process RUSH cash deposits, we have a dedicated team processing cash throughout the day. EMT's have been disabled due to the RBC closure, we are taking steps to re-enable them with different banks and payment providers with much higher limits in the coming weeks, in the meantime unverified users can withdraw via direct deposit and by filling in their banking information. There is an up to 5 business day delay on receiving a direct deposit to your bank account. If you sent BTC to your VirtEx account and you have 6 confirmations with no balance increase please logout and then back in. Please be assured that we are working as hard as we can to hire resources, get back to every customer inquiry and decrease processing times for all payments.
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