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1141  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Does Bitfinex have a competitor? on: April 15, 2013, 08:58:41 AM
I couldn't find where else to place this so if it gets moved I understand.  I'm wondering if Bitfinex has a competitor that also offers the service of margin trading / going short and the lending associated with either of those.



The problem is that these financial products are regulated activities in most jurisdictions.  For that reason, some of these services are operated anonymously or pseudonymously.  That introduces counterparty risk.

Keep an eye on and as well.
1142  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Bitcoin via Txt: PhoneACoin! on: April 15, 2013, 08:41:14 AM
Edit: wanted to ask how do we know you won't just run off with the coinz ?

Good question.  Any #bitcoin-otc trust history?
1143  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-4-11 Bitcoin’s big crash: Why you must know about this digital currency on: April 15, 2013, 07:08:51 AM

This was an AP article by Raphael Satter that appeared in a lot of newspapers across the country last week.  Including Techland on Time:


1144  Economy / Services / Re: Bitcoin paychecks on: April 15, 2013, 06:35:56 AM
Wondering what the best way (if any at the moment), would be to get your DD'd checks as Bitcoin payouts?

You don't mention where you are. 

To receive a direct deposit you'ld need your own account number with a financial service.  There are currently no financial services that have a direct path to Bitcoin.

In the U.S., if you have a bank account, you can simply do a Dwolla transfer from that account and from there do a Dwolla account-to-account transfer to Mt. Gox or Camp BX to buy coins.

If you don't have a bank account you can use a prepaid debit card type of account which has direct deposit capability, and do the same thing with a Dwolla transfer.  I believe Western Union's prepaid debit card allows this as does Walmart's MoneyCard.   [I'm not 100% sure that you can set up ACH to pull from your debit card account though.  If neither does, then I think American Express's Bluebird prepaid card does. ]    Coming soon are mobile-only bank accounts like Green Dot's GoBank which will allow Dwolla to pull funds via ACH.

Coinbase also can do an ACH pull from an account however their service has tight limits while it is trying to keep up to market demand.

In the EU, Bitcoin-Central has described how it will have EUR accounts with a financial partner, and that would be a way to receive SEPA payments directly to the accountholder's exchange account.
1145  Economy / Economics / Re: Why Bitcoin Is Going to Succeed: The Reason Nobody Is Talking About on: April 15, 2013, 04:24:43 AM
We already have more "working employees", all incentivized with "stock options", than they EVER will.

Yup, and here's an article by BitPay's Tony G in which he was describing how owning bitcoins is like investing in the whole Bitcoin ecosystem:

The niche bitcoin space is unlike anything in history. It’s not necessary to invest in a Bitcoin startup in order to profit from the space. Many bitcoin companies are self-funded and the capital requirements are low. By simply owning bitcoins, you can profit from the success of every bitcoin company. There’s no need to pick the winners. BTC is the investment that gives you exposure to the currency, to the payment network, and to every business building products and services on top of bitcoin.

How Owning Bitcoin Is Owning An ETF On The Whole Bitcoin Space

You must understand, this is the first project of it's kind in human history. All these petty beginning-stage problems will be overcome - why? Simply because because for the first time we all WANT them to be overcome. You must account for the solutions to problems that we don't understand yet - because they are being attacked by a motivated workforce quality we have never seen before. The problems will eventually be solved, and this is why Bitcoin will make it to the mainstream.

Well, this isn't the first time that mass collaboration around an open protocol has changed the world.  You might have heard of things like Wikipedia, or the world wide web itself -- both great examples of this.  Look up Don Tapscott's work for more on this.

What is unique to Bitcoin is the others all were mostly web-based/online.   There will be a growing amount of collaboration with a local impact.  Patronizing a merchant versus that merchant's competitors specifically because that merchant accepts bitcoin is something that will be recognized at the local level.  Here's an example of someone drawing from the global Bitcoin community to provide local help:


What is also unique to Bitcoin is that with other mass collaborations, the contributor generally receives no compensation or receives less compensation than could be obtained through other means.  The mass of collaborators were mostly participating as a labor of love.  Bitcoin could be the first mass collaboration that is financially rewarding to nearly all participants.  Bitcoin could be so rewarding to where the collaborator can justify allocating greater and greater involvement -- including obtaining all income needs as a result of that collaborative work.

Stepping back and looking at this "mass collaboration", it is simply the re-discovery of the concept of free markets.
1146  Economy / Goods / Re: Feeding Bitcoiners across the US on: April 15, 2013, 03:40:06 AM
Valid at all 12,041 Foodler restaurants!

This is how we win.   Foodler went out on a limb to begin accepting bitcoins.   Now it is up to us to patronize them by ordering from those restaurants through Foodler.  When the decision to accept bitcoin as payment equates to increased revenues, then the trickle of merchants we have now will turn into a steady stream of merchants coming onboard.  Which in turn creates incentive for the supply chain to begin accepting bitcoins as payment from the individual merchants who can save versus converting all of their coins to cash.   Close the loop.

The list of restaurants could fill out a little more but I'm going to go a little out of the way to get to one to be able to try this ... my first food order purchase paid for with bitcoins.
1147  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-14 Bitcoin Miners Are Racking Up $150,000 A Day In Power Consumption... on: April 15, 2013, 02:25:46 AM
Assumption: 50% of this will be spent on electricity, and the remaining 50% on paying off mining hardware, profit, etc.

Instead of pulling numbers out of thin air lets use upper and lower bounds.

GPUs are the least efficient.  ASICs are the most efficient.

If all mining was ATI 5970s (a relatively decent GPU), then there would need to be about 81,000 of them to make up today's 61 Thash/s.   Each consumes about 350W, (e.g., you can put three in a box with a 1200W power supply and end up drawing about 1,050W).  So that is 28.35kW, running a full day gives 680,400 kWh.  At $0.15 per kWh, thats about $102,060 per day in electricity.  

So that's the upper bound.  I would guess that in reality less than 1/3rd of hashing today is done on GPUs.   So that's $33K USD today from GPUs, plus a fraction of that for FPGAs and and even smaller fraction for a third of that 61T hashing coming from ASICs.

If instead all mining was done on ASICs, then let's use for the math the Avalon ASIC which does 60 Ghashs and draws 600W.  So if all mining was on those there would be about 1,016 of them needed.  That is 609 kW, running a full day gives 14,630 kWh.  At $0.15 per kWh that's $2,194 per day in electricity.  

And that's the low end.  

So an educated guess would say today that total cost to power all bitcoin mining today should be a number less than $50K, and will probably end up in the range of $15K to $25K per day one ASICs have shot difficulty up to about 500 Thash/s.   (And BFL's ASICs are more efficient on power consumption than Avalons so even at that level the amount for power could be less.)
1148  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE on: April 14, 2013, 11:19:31 PM
Total volume of the contract: $754550

The exact same volume for the last two BTCUSDs?

Total volume for this contract is $754550.

Here's a summary of the settled contracts:

Dec 15, 2012: BTCUSD-12.12 (BUZ2) Total volume: $500,000, Final settlement: $13.4870
Mar 15, 2013: BTCUSD-3.13 (BUH3) Total volume: $754,550, Final settlement: $47.0764
Apr 14, 2013: BTC/USD-4.13 (BUJ3) Total volume: $754,550, Final settlement: $98.94082

Feb 15, 2013: GOLD-02.13 (GDG3) Total volume: 268 contracts, Final settlement: 65.0314 BTC ($1634.30 USD)
Apr 14, 2013: GOLD-04.13 (GDJ3) Total volume: 119 contracts, Final settlement: 15.23 BTC ($1507.0 USD)

Feb 15, 2013: OIL-02.13 (CLG3) Total volume: 1513 contracts, Final settlement: 3.8709 BTC ($97.28 USD).
Apr 14, 2013: OIL-04.13 (CLJ3) Total volume: 187 contracts, Final settlement: 0.9169 BTC ($90.72)

BUZ2 volume obtained from news release:
1149  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: BEWARE!!! Bitinstant -> Mt.Gox Deposit Changes on: April 14, 2013, 08:55:33 PM
Its too late for me, as I already tried prefixing an "M" and suffixing and "X" to the account number shown. This was accepted by Bitinstant, but it appears the funds will never make it into my account (maybe someone else just received a gift). I contacted Mt.Gox about this issue, but I'm not really holding my breath.

Chill, dude.

That account format change isn't what the disclaimer is referring to.    If you used the old format they still know which account to credit.

The disclaimer is there because people were careless and entering the wrong number ... a number that matches someone else's account.

So as long as you have the correct digits for your account number entered, you won't lose anything -- it just might be delayed as the automated method might be looking for the new formatting.
1150  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Is mtgox going to offer USD coupon codes sometime soon? on: April 14, 2013, 07:29:52 PM
anything on when this will be coming back?

Mt. Gox has discontinued all redeemable codes.  The reason given is "legal issues".

MtGox generation of USD redeemable codes will stop at 10 Apr 2013
1151  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: MtGox generation of USD redeemable codes will stop at 10 Apr 2013 on: April 14, 2013, 07:29:03 PM
There is one workaround and that is to create throwaway accounts.

So you create an account specifically with the intention of sharing the username and password with your trading party.  You wouldn't want the account to get flagged as needing verification so the amounts you would hold in it would need to be under the levels that non-verified accounts are allowed to transfer.

This lets you lock in a certain amount of USDs and transfer that value as dollars to someone else by giving the username and password to them.  Then that person completes the verification steps to withdraw the dollars  (or use the funds to buy bitcoins at a later time).   Since most people already have a Mt. Gox account, trying to get verification on a second account at Mt. Gox would likely bring closer scrutiny and/or [Edit: be a violation of their user agreement and possibly] see the funds getting frozen.  

Also, there's the chance the person who funded the account will claim the account was lost due to identity fraud (hacker gaining username/password) after trading it away and possibly regain access to the funds.   So this isn't a method two parties who don't have trust in each other would want to follow.

But it might be a way to separate off some bitcoins into multiple accounts, convert them to dollars to lock in a certain amount of value in USDs, and then later trade those USDs away.

That's nowhere near as convenient as the redeemable codes, but it is an option.

Of course, other exchanges still have account-to-account (A2A) transfers, if the need is simply a USD-denominated store of value that can be easily transferred to and from BTCs:

1152  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013_04_03 - TWiT.TV - Security Now_398 on: April 14, 2013, 01:47:29 AM
Leo starts very Bitcoin-negative, which he usually seems,

You'ld think that in the  two years plus since Leo first "didn't get it" (after the exchange rate first reached parity with the dollar) that he'ld get it by now.

Of course, this has nothing to do with technology and all to do with politics.  And he's entitled to his opinion.

1153  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: - Canadian Bitcoin Exchange now LIVE on: April 13, 2013, 11:23:53 PM
There have been some updates that didn't make it here so I'm posting them below:

April 2, 2013, 12:46 p.m. - RBC Cash Deposits Closing, Cash Processing and EMT Changes

1. Our Royal Bank account will be closing on April 5, 2013. Cash payments will no longer be accepted at any RBC branch after April 5, 2013. You may still make cash payments to BMO and Scotiabank. Bill payments are not affected by this close. 2. As a result of the closure of RBC, email money transfer fees will be raised from $10 to $20 starting April 5, 2013. We advise all customers to use the direct deposit method to withdraw CAD from their VirtEx account. Unverified users can use direct deposit to withdraw up to $5000 per day and $10,000 per month. 3. We are no longer processing RUSH cash payments, instead, we are increasing the number of times we process cash each day.

April 6, 2013, 11:03 a.m. - Important Customer Service Update

Due to the increase in BTC trading volume and price, VirtEx is busy! We are working hard to get back to each voicemail and email, process payments quickly and are in the process of hiring new team members. Direct deposit and bill payments have been taking about 3 business days to complete. If you are new to VirtEx, please check out the videos on our YouTube channel about depositing funds and trading before contacting us as many of your questions are likely answered in the videos. We appreciate your business and thank you for your patience.


We are responding to every e-mail and voice-mail and currently have a list of 400 customers to get back to due to the high volatility. We have also just hired 6 more staff dedicated to customer service and account verifications. The most common inquires we get are from people failing to read the Deposits and Withdraw Funds link above fully. We also have a youtube video Depositing with VirtEx, please watch this video as well as the trading video on our channel by clicking on the youtube icon above. If you have made a cash deposit you MUST have a corresponding open deposit request shown on Deposit Funds when logged into your account, this involves pressing DEPOSIT and then CONFIRM on the next page. We do not process RUSH cash deposits, we have a dedicated team processing cash throughout the day. EMT's have been disabled due to the RBC closure, we are taking steps to re-enable them with different banks and payment providers with much higher limits in the coming weeks, in the meantime unverified users can withdraw via direct deposit and by filling in their banking information. There is an up to 5 business day delay on receiving a direct deposit to your bank account. If you sent BTC to your VirtEx account and you have 6 confirmations with no balance increase please logout and then back in. Please be assured that we are working as hard as we can to hire resources, get back to every customer inquiry and decrease processing times for all payments.
1154  Bitcoin / Press / Re: NEW articles in Press Forum on: April 13, 2013, 11:08:19 PM
2013-04-13 - Six reasons why Chinese people will drive the next bull mark
1155  Bitcoin / Press / 2013-04-13 - Six reasons why Chinese people will drive the next bull mark on: April 13, 2013, 11:07:05 PM
Six reasons why Chinese people will drive the next bull market in bitcoin
by Gwynn Guilford ‏

They’ve already done the whole virtual currency thing—with Q Coin.
Property, stocks, art, tea—speculation dominates in every major asset market you can think of in China. The Chinese are a people used to high risk-reward investments.
As the online gamer source tells Quartz, 'the currency’s system is so decentralized' that it would be extremely difficult for the Chinese government to do anything about bitcoin.[...] And unlike with Tencent, there’s no company or entity to target for regulation. 'To China’s conservative regulators,' he adds, “Bitcoin is a game [that's] way more dangerous.

1156  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Questions about trading on: April 13, 2013, 10:02:31 PM
Do I need to wait 3 days for trades to settle like normal stocks? Or can I just jump in and out of USD/BTC constantly?

Settlement occurs at the time of order execution..

Also is there an easy way to keep track of trades for taxes? Anything else I should know before trading?

Market orders are dangerous due to "Gox Lag" (delays between when the order is entered and when the order matching engine actually processes the order.)

Withrawals (either BTC or USD) may not be processed immediately.

When you leave funds at an exchange you are trusting that the exchange is competent enough store your funds securely, and that they are trustworthy.  Additionally, username and password is an insufficient protection for an account holding non-reversible funds.  Instead you want to make use of the two-factor authentication (2FA) using Yubikey, Google Authenticator, etc, to protect your funds from being stolen via a replay attack (should your computer become compromised).
1157  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Brazil dont has bitcoin on: April 13, 2013, 06:14:42 PM
Is very hard to send money outside from Brazil, because we need to inform the governmant and pay a lot of taxes!

You aren't able to send an international bank wire (USD) to Mt. Gox?    That's the method most everywhere else in the world has to fund their accounts there.   In the U.S. we do have the low-cost Dwolla transfers from our banks but that incurs delays of many, many days.

At the last day, when the bitcoin price it was $60, we would like to pay $100!!!

So would have everyone else.  That price wasn't unavailable to you because you were in Brazil, that price was unavailable because few people already had cash at Mt. Gox and the timing of restoration of service was such that it occurred essentially after anyone could send more funds via bank wire to catch the selloff.

So the only potential buyers were those with cash already at that exchange ... a tiny subset of all those wanting to buy and hold bitcoins.

The easy way to send bitcoin to Brazil is: if you have a bank account from Brazil (hsbc, itau, santander, bradesco, caixa, bb) you can trade with brazilian and gain 15% at bitcoin price.[/quite]

If the exchanges won't be allowed to co-exist with the banks then in-person trading, person-to-person, for cash, will probably be the path to pursue.  LocalBitcoins is one such tool to help with that.

To get a supply of coins within the borders encourage businesses who export to accept bitcoins as then there will be bitcoins available for purchase domestically.    Additionally, those businesses in the travel industry are great candidates to accept bitcoins.     Since bitcoin isn't a company, there ins't someone who is going to come in and give the hard sell to these merchants.   It will need people like you promoting the idea to make it happen.
1158  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Getting USD from MtGox to BTC24 on: April 13, 2013, 08:41:21 AM
I would like to know how to get usd that i have in my MtGox to btc24?

Mt. Gox has ended its redeemable codes.  The only withdraw methods are those listed on their site (e.g., bank transfer and OKPay).  

Bitcoin-24 is currently down, so I'm not sure how you would do that anyway though (other than to buy bitcoins at Mt. Gox then sell bitcoins at Bitcoin-24).
1159  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Bitfinex stopped working? on: April 13, 2013, 08:34:41 AM
I can't buy or sell anything right now.

Looks like trading is happening:
1160  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-12 Bitcoins are unconstitutional on: April 13, 2013, 08:28:57 AM
This is THE MOST AMAZING bashing ever  Grin

From the description:
"bitcoins dropped 270% to a low of just over $54"

How does something drop more than 100%?
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