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1201  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin Central Bank on: April 06, 2013, 12:21:58 AM
I hope its clear enough,

Its clear.  You are describing Mt. Gox.

Account-to-account transfers (bitcoin payments from one account to a merchant or other account who also uses Mt. Gox) are instantaneous.  

Other "banks" who don't even have accounts at Mt. Gox might accept payments from Mt. Gox account holders instantly using "green address" (because they trust Mt. Gox won't do a double spend). 

But to store your bitcoins with someone else means you are trusting that they are competent enough to hold your coins securely, and that they are not dishonest in which they run off with the funds.
1202  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Is there any places you can book plane flights with bitcoin yet? on: April 05, 2013, 11:29:18 PM
Roll Eyes or is that silly

Not at all.  

In the U.S. you can use Dwolla USDs to buy American Airline prepaid gift cards or pay for a trip booked online with Jet Blue Vacations.

This is offered through Lyoness.  So the process is to first get a Lyoness account created by an existing member:

Then sell your coins at an exchange that uses Dwolla, (Camp BX, or Mt. Gox  ... though Mt. Gox requires that you verify with them before you can withdraw Dwolla).

Withdraw the USDs to Dwolla.  (e.g., to buy a $500 gift card, withdraw $500.25 so you can pay the Dwolla per-transaction fee).

Then transfer the USDs to your "purchase account" at Lyoness. The funds will be credited the next business at the latest (at least that has been my experience).  Then order the gift card.  It will be sent FedEx.  There is a $5 fee per-order if the total order amount is under $300.  Anything $300 or more is sent at no charge.  (i.e., you send $500 Dwolla USD, you get a $500 American Airlines gift card.)

You can do this for gas (Chevron, Exxon, BP, etc), Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot, and a dozen other national brands.

Lyoness is a merchant loyalty / cash back reward provider.  You get 1% cash back (or 2% for some merchants even) on gift card purchases, so you'ld get $5 back on the $500 gift card purchase.
1203  Bitcoin / Technical Support / Re: What the hell happened to my coins? [Double transaction, confirmed one is wrong] on: April 05, 2013, 09:36:03 PM
Your coins got sent to the address the client says they got sent to.

And they were sent on April 1st:

So if you today sent them using the Bitcoin-Qt client that hadn't been yet synced, it wouldn't know that the funds were no longer able to be sent and would today send the transaction but, of course, that transaction will never confirm because the funds were already spent.
1204  Bitcoin / Technical Support / Re: What the hell happened to my coins? [Double transaction, confirmed one is wrong] on: April 05, 2013, 09:33:13 PM
Where did my coins get sent to?

Your coins got sent to the address the client says they got sent to.

There were two transactions created at the same time.

About the only time I've seen that happen is when someone is purposely attempting a double spend themselves.

Did you use the Bitcoin-Qt client to send the one?

At this point, you might want to treat your system as "status: potentially compromised" and power down your system.  If your wallet still has funds, you might want to copy the wallet.dat and from another system send those funds to safety.

1205  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: Where to get Coins? on: April 05, 2013, 08:43:55 PM
I am gunna need about 2700.00 usd worth bitcoin  and am sick of doing the bitinstant Walmart transactions. Can anyone point a guy to a good exchange that doesnt rape on the rates? ive been trying Ziggap but page keeps sayin be back soon Embarrassed Undecided

That's an amount where sending a bank wire to an exchange is probably your best option.  BITSTAMP, Mt. Gox, and others take bank wire:

If you do this frequently, consider a bulk seller like BitcoinsDirect (occasionally they'll invite more buyers)
1206  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Why Litecoin? on: April 05, 2013, 11:49:31 AM

A bank vault's door needs to be just as thick to protect $10M worth of currency inside as it does to protect $1.5 Billion.

Litecoin is extremely vulnerable to a 51% attack due to the vulnerability of its pools to being DDoS'd, and due to there being significantly less mining capacity needed to reach 51%.
1207  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Github Brainwallet is not the same as on: April 05, 2013, 11:13:02 AM
The core of the code shouldn't change with time should it

The .html, .css and .js may see updates.  Several were just made:

I believe there are no changes that are not backward compatible. (i.e., the new page will work with your old keys.)

[the current github files generate the same codes as the website!]

Correct.  What is in the Github project repo and what is served on are currently in sync.

How can I include here the zip of the Github files I download back then?

Well, unfortunately the project isn't getting tagged with version numbers that align with the source, so it could be hard for you to know what was the last commit that matches what you currently have.

If your .zip includes the .git project directory, you can see the hash for it:
 $ git rev-list --max-count=1 HEAD

That will let you see where in the list of commits your version is at and from that you can see what has been done since.
1208  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Online supermarket shopping with Bitcoin. on: April 05, 2013, 09:50:28 AM
It wouldn't exactly be a "bitcoin supermarket," but it would be close. Would you use it?

Well, I'm in the U.S.   Where will you be offering this service?

Though I suspect you'll go through the technical efforts necessary to get this running and then a few weeks or months later you shut it down because you are operating as a money transmitter, according to FinCEN.

But there are multiple grocery options available today and I don't use them.  The most recent service I looked at wouldn't work because I couldn't be sure I would be around during the delivery window.   If they were to drop off and leave, I wouldn't want to order anything refrigerated.     Another service I was going to order from,, would ship the items to me, but again but again -- the logistics of the delivery getting dropped off (and possibly disappearing thanks to not having a halfway secure method for accepting delivery (e.g., a porch), that just isn't something I'm that anxious to use.

But I see the delivery trucks out and about, so there are others that do use these services.  And the order sizes are enough to where there's almost always a few dollars per order going to VISA/MC.
1209  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Adjusting your way of spending money on: April 05, 2013, 07:26:39 AM
This just further highlights the fact that people will want to pay for things later with bitcoins.

And with a deflationary currency, the value over time will trend upwards.

Now all of this may become less of a factor when everyone is using bitcoins and they only gain value of 2% or so per year. But we are not there yet.

I'm perplexed.  Why would I be more or less likely to pay with bitcoins just because you happen to decide not to use bitcoins for spending?

In other words, you hoarding your coins doesn't change the total dollar valuation (TDV) of spending using bitcoins that happens.  

So go ahead and save up your coins if you want.  

How that does benefit Bitcoin is gives an increase in the purchasing power (from the higher exchange rate) to those who will spend them now (like I did, in my example).

1210  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Adjusting your way of spending money on: April 05, 2013, 06:30:21 AM
So the best strategy there is to pay it at the last possible moment.

It all depends if you expect the exchange rate to go up or down.   During about the middle of this runup so far, I made a larger purchase from a Bitcoin merchant sooner than I had been planning on purposely to lock in the exchange rate such that if the rate dropped I got at least what I thought was a fantastic exchange rate.   Ends up I had done that way too soon, but I'm not complaining.

But also what is available to use are derivatives such as PUT options at MPEX and BTC/USD futures contracts at ICBIT.

Now this adds a little more effort to a purchase decision but there's a good reason to consider it.  Specifically, right now if I can wait until April 14th to spend my coins, I might get a small discount on a purchase then by instead today selling BUJ3 futures contracts on ICBIT at $150.    

So let's say I am planning on spending 1 BTC, worth right now about $137.    

There are buyers paying $150 for BUJ3 contracts.   Each BUJ3 represents $10 worth of BTC/USD.    

So by depositing 1 BTC into my account, I would then sell about 15 of the BUJ3 contracts at $150 (quantity 15 was chosen since that is the closest quantity to the current sell price, for $10 contracts).   Then it doesn't matter if the exchange rate goes up or down, I will have about $150 worth of bitcoins on April 14th.

If BTC/USD settlement price on April 14th is $100, then you would end up with 1.410 BTC (after fees), worth about $141.  Gain $4 versus making your purchase today.
If BTC/USD settlement price on April 14th is $170, then you would end up with 0.792 BTC (after fees), worth about $135.60, Loss $1.40 versus purchasing today.

Now this is just for holding off until settlement 10 days from now but in the scenario where the price drops I earned about a 3% discount for letting my bitcoin be tied up for ten days.   Extend this out a few months where, for example, the BUU3 contract settles September 15th, 2013, then you have a higher price that you can sell at (currently $168, so you sell 17 BUU3s) and you get significant gains by committing your 1.0 BTC now:

If BTC/USD settlement price on Sept. 15th is $100, then you would end up with 1.671 BTC (after fees), worth about $167.  Gain $30 versus making your purchase today.  (or about a 22% discount for tying up your money for a period of less than 6 months).
If BTC/USD settlement price on Sept. 15th is $200, then you would end up with 0.867 BTC (after fees), worth about $173, Gain $36 versus purchasing today. (or about a 26% discount for tying up your money for a period of less than 6 months).
1211  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Selling coins... on: April 05, 2013, 05:55:03 AM
I'm also looking for other companies/services that are already established to buy bitcoin from me. What do you guys suggest other then the two listed above?

The factors that matter for any cash-out decision are:

 - Where are you located (country)? [You mention Coinbase, so presumably you are referring to U.S.]
 - How much are you looking to trade?
 - What type of cash are you looking to receive?
 - How soon do you need access to the proceeds?
 - Is privacy important?

A fairly comprehensive list exists at:
1212  Bitcoin / Press / Re: TODAY: Trace Mayer on Fox Business - SOMEONE RECORD IT on: April 05, 2013, 05:43:50 AM
I just noticed that another guest on a different segment of today's program was crowdfunding, and interviewed was Chance Barnett of  He had helped write and promote the Crowdfunding legislation, some of which became passed last year as part of the JOBS act. 

What really would have been a good response to anchor Melissa Francis' question about bitcoins being used for "drugs and guns", a fantastic response would have been to explain how equity crowdfunding is already happening in which Bitcoins are the currency used to buy and sell shares, with a couple issues having valuations in the tens of millions of dollars.

1213  Bitcoin / Press / Re: TODAY: Trace Mayer on Fox Business - SOMEONE RECORD IT on: April 05, 2013, 05:07:03 AM
Trace, you had her up until 'petaflops'.   Grin

Heh, yes, it is hard to know the line between what is appropriate for the audience and what doesn't convey

Trace: "I was invited to speak two weeks ago to members of the U.S. Fed, the Bundesbank, and a lot of major banks".

Interesting ...
1214  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Millis or Millies? on: April 05, 2013, 03:44:53 AM
In the near future we will likely be talking about bitcoins using the mBTC valuation for common items.

What should the naming convention be when speaking of milli-bitcoins(hyphen?)?

What about symbol? m฿?

Well, if polls matter, this was already voted on two years ago:

what should we call a milli-Bitcoin  ?

And the winner is ....

1215  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: How do I move BitCoins? on: April 05, 2013, 12:20:38 AM
Can anyone confirm that the Mtgox account has to be formally verified in order to transfer coin to SR?

FFS, people.   Stop using exchanges tied to the banking system [Edit: directly] with services that will likely get you in trouble.  

You can use a throwaway wallet somewhere in the middle as one approach.

You can use a mixing service, such as shared deposits with, for example.

1216  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitinstant -> MTgox problem funds not showing up on: April 05, 2013, 12:06:49 AM
What is going on?

Yankee, by providing support in a dozen threads what that does is encourage more support requests in those threads or gives incentive for more threads to be created.

Perhaps for each and every instance of support requested outside the BitInstant support thread the best response would be to direct the person to post (or re-post) their inquiry in the BitInstant support thread.  Having fewer points of contact (i.e, not spread out here, there and everywhere) provides a better level of service to them.

travelmonkey12, if you weren't aware:

Official BitInstant Support Thread (Active Customer Support)
1217  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: A clever route to perform a 51% attack? on: April 04, 2013, 08:27:49 PM
I have no idea, but it does look like at least a few of the top LTC pools are currently offline

A 51% attack would likely be performed so as to double spend against an exchange,

e.g., attain a significant amount of hashing power for solo mining but don't release solved blocks, start DDoS against pools, spend LTC to exchanges and spend same LTC to a locally controlled address broadcast only to self-mined blocks.  When the LTCs reach an exchange, sell them and withdraw bitcoins.  Then release the secret blockchain which is now longer than DDoS'd side has reached, which will then invalidate the LTC payments to the exchanges but that doesn't impact the BTC withdrawal.

This only makes sense though if there will still be value to the LTCs the attacker received after the double spend.   An attack like this might render those LTCs essentially worthless.

Either way, any exchange that converts between crypto currencies and then honors withdrawal requests when pools in either currency are being DDoS'd would be essentially inviting such an attack to be attempted (and thus putting customer's funds at risk).

1218  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Details on How Transactions are Reported? on: April 04, 2013, 08:17:02 PM
I don't see the address (is this a hash?) when I search for it at either

Contact the seller.  If it doesn't even show in, then it wasn't sent.
1219  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: Selling 7.21 BTC for MoneyPak or USAA funds transfer on: April 04, 2013, 07:29:13 PM
USAA funds transfer

They have an account-to-account (A2A) transfer method?
1220  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Broadcast Double Spend Transactions on: April 04, 2013, 07:10:04 PM
I think, that ideally, a 0 fee transaction should wait for 51% confirmations before being acted upon.

Some transactions will confirm right away without a fee.  Others will take longer even with a fee due to other properties (e.g., having INPUTs who themselves have not yet confirmed).

This is going to become an increasingly important area to manage for those who accept on 0/unconfirmed (e.g., retail merchants).

Imagine paying at the counter and then being told your payment had no fee and thus you need to wait (hours maybe) to receive the merchandise you paid for.  There's no way to cancel the payment, which makes it even worse.

I keep flip flopping on whether or not bitcoin can work for merchant payments.

If the retailer can make it economically unprofitable to try to double spend then there won't be a problem.  i.e., if the attacker/thief has to buy 19 hamburgers before the 20th is "free" from a successful double spend, then an attacker probably isn't going to try.  But the merchant isn't looking to figure out a way bitcoin will work, the merchant is looking only to sell hamburgers, and if a payment network gives hassle and risk it is not likely to be embraced.

Now that FinCEN has stated that merchants can accept bitcoins for goods and services without having to register as MSBs, there will probably be some new approaches coming (including intermediaries, likely).
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