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1341  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Wallet - do I delete it? on: March 31, 2013, 09:45:55 PM
I'm sure I read that it is recommended somewhere whilst investigating bitcoin.

What you might have read is that if you have any old backup copies of your wallet.dat prior to protecting the wallet using the passphrase encryption that those old backups could still be used to spend the funds received to those addresses.

Even though you've now encrypted your wallet, the private keys used previously are still stored in the encrypted wallet -- they just are protected with encryption there now.  

So to protect even against the risk of loss due to those old backups, what you can do is spend the funds in your wallet to a brand new address from the same wallet after you've added passphrase encryption.    Then your old backups would not have any addresses that still have any funds on them.
1342  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-03-31;; Total Bitcoin value passes $1 billion on: March 31, 2013, 09:36:35 PM
There's no damn encryption used in Bitcoin.

You are correct when referring to the Bitcoin protocol (which was the context of that excerpt).

But just to clarify your statement, in the Biticoin-Qt/blitcoind client (and most others) there is encryption.  For example:
1343  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Best advice for someone wanting to get serious about mining alt coins? on: March 31, 2013, 09:12:45 PM
I don't really have faith in scypt and litecoin yet

You don't have to ... as every litecoin can be converted to bitcoin (or fiat) after it is mined.

But it sounds more like you are interested in speculating (paying for the electricity out of pocket and holding the coins you mined) than you are in just whatever profit can come from selling the coins as they are mined and profiting from the revenue minus expenses just from that alone.
1344  Bitcoin / Technical Support / Re: bitcoind listunspent for account on: March 31, 2013, 08:36:05 PM
Is there a way to get all addresses associated with an account?

You can use
to get all the addresses in the wallet and then getaccount to determine which account each address is in.
You could filter that with the ones you already know from getaddressesbyaccount and that would leave a smaller list (just of change addresses that exist for all accounts).
1345  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Offensive anti-Bitcoiner Bill Still just lost a fan on: March 31, 2013, 12:32:15 AM

He uses a lot of big words that he himself does not understand. 

Nor can anyone else understand it.

"This is the only way we can beat [the money masters is] for each of us contribute a little bit now. You can make a lot of money trading in bitcoins, but ultimately will that satisfy you in the end when in so doing you are neglecting the real source of human political freedom?"

 Huh     Huh      Huh
1346  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't on: March 31, 2013, 12:14:44 AM
For many years I've made sure that every one of Karl's posts are in my daily list of required reading.

And the previous post of Karl's is a video by former Presidential candidate Bill Still  (Libertarian Party) who weighs in on Bitcoin:


Offensive anti-Bitcoiner Bill Still just lost a fan

1347  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: what is killing bitcoin by drastically deflating it? on: March 30, 2013, 11:50:15 PM
I guess, that would be frustration - more $ could be made by doing nothing.

 Huh     Huh
1348  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: what is killing bitcoin by drastically deflating it? on: March 30, 2013, 11:01:05 PM
but thats terrible news for people who sell stuff and would like to accept bitcoin...

A few weeks ago a merchant that sold an item for $100 dollars worth of bitcoins got paid about $100 dollars worth of bitcoin.  If that merchant then used those coins for making purchases or cashed them out, that merchant got about $100 dollars worth of value from them.

Today a merchant that sells an item for $100 dollars worth of bitcoins gets paid about $100 dollars worth of bitcoin.  That merchant can then use those coins for making purchases or cash them out and that merchant will get about $100 dollars worth of value from them.

What is the difference for the merchant between the situation a few weeks ago and the situation today?

Now if you are saying the merchant may not want to hold bitcoins at this higher valuation because the risk of the exchange rate decreasing, then there are methods for merchants to hedge, such as buying PUT options or to sell futures contracts on ICBIT, so that the merchant can "lock in" at today's value yet still hold that value in the form of bitcoins.  

Ideally though, the merchant will have vendors, employees and investors to pay so that bitcoin revenues can be used for that spending rather than simply getting cashed out to fiat as part of each transaction.
1349  Bitcoin / Press / Re: NEW articles in Press Forum on: March 30, 2013, 10:34:28 PM
2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't

1350  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't on: March 30, 2013, 10:33:52 PM
For many years I've made sure that every one of Karl's posts are in my daily list of required reading.

I'm not sure his point about using a throwaway EWallet being something that could be considered structuring.  We should never allow our natural right to financial privacy be interpreted as some violation of the law.
1351  Bitcoin / Press / 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't on: March 30, 2013, 10:30:05 PM
Karl Denninger, writes on Bitcoin:

The dealer can (and might) take steps such as using "throw-away" wallets to try to unlink the transfer from his person, but that's dangerous.  In all jurisdictions "structuring" transactions to evade money laundering or reporting constraints is a separate and unique crime and usually is a felony.  Therefore, the very act of trying to split up transactions or use of "throw-away" wallets in and of itself is likely to be ruled a crime, leaving any party doing that exposed to separate and distinct criminal charges (along with whatever else they can bust you for.)
Since the records never go away your exposure, once you engage in a transaction that leads to liability, is permanent.\
Because Bitcoin is not state-linked and thus fluctuates in value there is an FX tax issue.  Let's say you "buy" Bitcoins (whether for cash or in exchange for a good or service you provide) at a time when they have a "value" of $5 each against the US dollar.  You spend them when they have a "value" of $20 each.  You have a capital gain of $15.  At the time of the sale you have a tax liability too, and I'm willing to bet you didn't keep track of it or report it.  That liability never goes away as it was wilfully  evaded and yet the ability to track the transaction never goes away either!
Those who are using Bitcoin as a means to try to foil currency controls or state prohibitions on certain transactions are asking for a criminal indictment not only for the original evasion act itself but also the possibility of a money-laundering indictment on top of it, and the proof necessary to hang you in a court of law is inherently present in the design of the currency system!
I do not now and never will support Bitcoin or its offshoots, nor will I accept and transact in it in commerce.  I prefer instead to effort toward political recognition of the duties that come with the privilege that is bestowed on a sovereign currency issuer in the hope of solving the underlying problem rather than sniveling in the corner trying to evade it.

1352  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: decisions decisions... on: March 30, 2013, 09:54:38 PM
So we can come to the conclusion that mining is not really a good idea for me (I was talking litecoins remember)

There are temporary imbalances like right now where mining is very profitable (for either Bitcoin or Litecoin).  But that situation can rapidly change because as additional hashing capacity comes online to take advantage of this profit opportunity, difficulty goes up.  Unless the LTC/USD exchange rate rises at the same level, profitability starts to drop.  It can even go negative (where you are paying more in electricity than the value of the coins mined). 

Now some miners have the ability to pay for the electric bill with their fiat (e.g,. dollars) and then not spend the coins they mine.  Then when the exchange rate goes up, they find fantastic gains by selling all their mined coins at a lofty valuation compared to the cost.  But other miners don't have the ability (or desire) to speculate by paying the electricity out-of-pocket and instead sell their mined coins as they are earned.  If the exchange rate spikes, they really don't see much gain because the difficulty generally spikes (Bitcoin's difficulty generally had perhaps abut a month or so lag behind the price).

So if you are looking to profit, you need to consider your competition.  You will be mining and likely having to sell your mined coins to pay for the electricity.  You will be competing against miners who are using rigs that have already paid for themselves from Bitcoin mining, and people who are paying the electric bills with fiat with the expectation that the exchange rate will be rising, so they aren't necessarily going to power down their rigs once mining gets to be unprofitable (which has happened in the past, and likely will happen again at some point).

One protection is that you would still have the hardware that can be sold (or used for other purposes) should Litecoin mining not pan out financially.

1353  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: I just got off the phone with FinCEN on: March 30, 2013, 09:29:19 PM
What if you are selling the coins you mined to MTGox, who is a licensed money transmitter?  (In this case i'm assuming a that you are NOT a money transmitter)

Mt. Gox is not today a licensed money transmitter in the U.S.   

But even if they were, do you as a miner have an agreement where you are an agent of theirs?   If not then it wouldn't matter where you sell your mined coins.

FinCEN's guidance is pretty clear.  If you convert your mined coins to currency (or value that substitutes as currency) then you are a money transmitter.  It is baffling, but yes -- that very restrictive definition is how they chose to interpret legislation regarding the transmission of money.
1354  Economy / Economics / Re: The Starting Of The "Bitcoin Derivative" - What side are you on? on: March 30, 2013, 08:59:40 PM
ultimately unless you don't want to own bitcoins at the end of the manipulation

When you sell PUT options on MPOE, or sell BTC/USD futures contracts on ICBIT, as two examples, the gains are earned in bitcoins.  So a favorable move (relative to the position) causes you to earn more bitcoins than you would have had simply holding a long position.   

It doesn't necessarily mean you don't want to hold bitcoins for the long term and instead could just mean that you believe the current exchange rate might be too high (or in the case of BUM3 futures contracts on ICBIT, you can earn profit from the current contango where the future sells at a price significantly higher than the spot price.)
1355  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Mining still rational? on: March 30, 2013, 10:32:36 AM
Please only provide definitive approximate numbers from knwowledge/first hand experience, so people can get a feel of whats possible still.

Do you drive down the road looking only in your rear-view mirror?

If not, then you don't want to know how much people have been making with their mining rigs recently and in the past, but instead you want to look at where mining is headed.

ASICMINER and Avalon ASIC are absolutely blasting difficulty up.  If it weren't for the corresponding rise in the exchange rate, you would get hundreds of PMs from people offering to dump their old ATI Radeons on you.  Give it a couple weeks, that's coming.  And that is even before BFL has shipped.

So, ...

Either look at Litecoin for GPU mining, which is currently roughly approximate to being as profitable as Bitcoin mining, or find a new fun game to play on that GPU.
1356  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Distributed Coin on: March 30, 2013, 10:14:19 AM
the only way to do this properly would be to use a centralized authority (such as social security number verification) to make sure 1 person can have 1 account.

Meet the OCCCU ("basic income")

[Update: And just so that it is clear, the OCCCU has been around for more than a year now.  If this type of funny money basic income is a good idea, why isn't it the OCCCU gaining traction as an alternative currency instead of Bitcoin?]
1357  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Historical question: were any Bitcoins premined? If so, how many? on: March 30, 2013, 10:05:42 AM
Where are those notes from? Are they in the blockchain?

No, the third-party blockchain reporting service,, stores those "public notes" and displays them:


How do I make one?

What are public notes?
Public notes are embeddable short messages during the transaction. An example of a public note can be seen below:

[Edit: Also:
 - ]
1358  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Mtgox bank transfer withdraw USD? on: March 30, 2013, 09:56:36 AM
Yes I'm in the US so I should just withdraw with Dwolla?

You'll need to have a verified account at Mt. Gox to use Dwolla as a withdrawal method (if I remember correctly), but yes -- Dwolla is a fantastic and inexpensive withdrawal method.  There is one caveat in that you never know how long the withdrawal will take.  It could be hours, or days (and weeks even, when there is an imbalance).    Worst case scenario your withdrawal request is queued up, you cancel it and figure out some other method.
1359  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE on: March 30, 2013, 09:29:55 AM
Settlement price determination is done by "taking a screenshot".

The 24 hour weighted average price (VWAP) showing on Mt. website is what gets used for settlement. [Edit: The 24 hour VWAP at the "largest exchange" is what gets used for settlement, but that just happens to be Mt. Gox, for now.]

The settlement occurs at the clearing time (20:00 UTC) on the settlement date (e.g., April 14th, 2012 for BUJ3).   That's from the contract, combined with general instructions from the page describing how ICBIT futures work.  

As far as that number being obtained from a "screen shot", every trade at Mt. Gox is logged and is publicly available.  From that data, you can calculate the 24 hour VWAP yourself.  If you have reason to believe the VWAP grabbed at the time of settlement (20:00 UTC) is not accurate please raise that concern publicly as that would be a problem (as many merchants, traders, and others use that metric from Mt. Gox as well, ... though nobody else has raised concern about its accuracy.)

Of course, there needs to be just "one price" used for settlement at ICBIT.  And that price needs to be known at the time of that settlement day's clearing.   If you believe the use of this 24 hour VWAP is problematic, or whatever issue you seem to have with this metric being used, please clearly state your argument.   If I recollect it seems that you are saying you believe the 24 hour metric at 00:00 UTC (four hours after clearing) should be the metric used and not the number that existed at the time of the 20:00 clearing.  Am I understanding correctly where you believe the issue lies?  If not, please clearly describe what exactly is the particular problem you see with using the 24 hour VWAP that exists at the time settlement (& daily clearing) occurs.
1360  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Best advice for someone wanting to get serious about mining alt coins? on: March 30, 2013, 09:10:26 AM
Worth it at all?

That's like asking what the S&P index will be next year.  Nobody knows.

Mining is a form of speculation.  A miner is speculating on the two unknowns -- the future exchange rate and the future difficulty level. The profitability can fluctuate but generally reverts to roughly break-even.  So most miners who see gains are those who mined and saved their proceeds and then after a run-up sell the coins at a nice profit   This really is not much different from speculating on the exchange rate.   In fact, those who simply bought coins instead of buying mining hardware end up with more coins at the end than the miners do -- in most circumstances.   If you are needing to pay electricity from your mining proceeds, then you won't have many coins left and if there is a rise in the exchange rate you will not really benefit much from that.

Now if the exchange rate drops, miners generally do better than coin speculators on a "per dollar invested" comparison.    But then again, that just means miners lost a lower amount (in USD terms) than did speculators of the coin.

But seriously, there are like tens of thousands of GPUs getting taken offline from Bitcoin mining.  Many of those will switch to Litecoin -- and since many of those rigs have already been fully paid off thanks to Bitcoin mining revenues, the operators would be happy to mine at a break-even level, or at a loss even with the anticipation that the exchange rate for the alt will rise in value.   In other words, if you are investing in hardware you are having to compete with others who essentially see their hardware investment cost as being "zero".     So you probably don't want to do anything unless you have some other purpose for the hardware you would be acquiring.
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