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1441  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: decisions decisions... on: March 30, 2013, 09:54:38 PM
So we can come to the conclusion that mining is not really a good idea for me (I was talking litecoins remember)

There are temporary imbalances like right now where mining is very profitable (for either Bitcoin or Litecoin).  But that situation can rapidly change because as additional hashing capacity comes online to take advantage of this profit opportunity, difficulty goes up.  Unless the LTC/USD exchange rate rises at the same level, profitability starts to drop.  It can even go negative (where you are paying more in electricity than the value of the coins mined). 

Now some miners have the ability to pay for the electric bill with their fiat (e.g,. dollars) and then not spend the coins they mine.  Then when the exchange rate goes up, they find fantastic gains by selling all their mined coins at a lofty valuation compared to the cost.  But other miners don't have the ability (or desire) to speculate by paying the electricity out-of-pocket and instead sell their mined coins as they are earned.  If the exchange rate spikes, they really don't see much gain because the difficulty generally spikes (Bitcoin's difficulty generally had perhaps abut a month or so lag behind the price).

So if you are looking to profit, you need to consider your competition.  You will be mining and likely having to sell your mined coins to pay for the electricity.  You will be competing against miners who are using rigs that have already paid for themselves from Bitcoin mining, and people who are paying the electric bills with fiat with the expectation that the exchange rate will be rising, so they aren't necessarily going to power down their rigs once mining gets to be unprofitable (which has happened in the past, and likely will happen again at some point).

One protection is that you would still have the hardware that can be sold (or used for other purposes) should Litecoin mining not pan out financially.

1442  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: I just got off the phone with FinCEN on: March 30, 2013, 09:29:19 PM
What if you are selling the coins you mined to MTGox, who is a licensed money transmitter?  (In this case i'm assuming a that you are NOT a money transmitter)

Mt. Gox is not today a licensed money transmitter in the U.S.   

But even if they were, do you as a miner have an agreement where you are an agent of theirs?   If not then it wouldn't matter where you sell your mined coins.

FinCEN's guidance is pretty clear.  If you convert your mined coins to currency (or value that substitutes as currency) then you are a money transmitter.  It is baffling, but yes -- that very restrictive definition is how they chose to interpret legislation regarding the transmission of money.
1443  Economy / Economics / Re: The Starting Of The "Bitcoin Derivative" - What side are you on? on: March 30, 2013, 08:59:40 PM
ultimately unless you don't want to own bitcoins at the end of the manipulation

When you sell PUT options on MPOE, or sell BTC/USD futures contracts on ICBIT, as two examples, the gains are earned in bitcoins.  So a favorable move (relative to the position) causes you to earn more bitcoins than you would have had simply holding a long position.   

It doesn't necessarily mean you don't want to hold bitcoins for the long term and instead could just mean that you believe the current exchange rate might be too high (or in the case of BUM3 futures contracts on ICBIT, you can earn profit from the current contango where the future sells at a price significantly higher than the spot price.)
1444  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Mining still rational? on: March 30, 2013, 10:32:36 AM
Please only provide definitive approximate numbers from knwowledge/first hand experience, so people can get a feel of whats possible still.

Do you drive down the road looking only in your rear-view mirror?

If not, then you don't want to know how much people have been making with their mining rigs recently and in the past, but instead you want to look at where mining is headed.

ASICMINER and Avalon ASIC are absolutely blasting difficulty up.  If it weren't for the corresponding rise in the exchange rate, you would get hundreds of PMs from people offering to dump their old ATI Radeons on you.  Give it a couple weeks, that's coming.  And that is even before BFL has shipped.

So, ...

Either look at Litecoin for GPU mining, which is currently roughly approximate to being as profitable as Bitcoin mining, or find a new fun game to play on that GPU.
1445  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Distributed Coin on: March 30, 2013, 10:14:19 AM
the only way to do this properly would be to use a centralized authority (such as social security number verification) to make sure 1 person can have 1 account.

Meet the OCCCU ("basic income")

[Update: And just so that it is clear, the OCCCU has been around for more than a year now.  If this type of funny money basic income is a good idea, why isn't it the OCCCU gaining traction as an alternative currency instead of Bitcoin?]
1446  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Historical question: were any Bitcoins premined? If so, how many? on: March 30, 2013, 10:05:42 AM
Where are those notes from? Are they in the blockchain?

No, the third-party blockchain reporting service,, stores those "public notes" and displays them:


How do I make one?

What are public notes?
Public notes are embeddable short messages during the transaction. An example of a public note can be seen below:

[Edit: Also:
 - ]
1447  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Mtgox bank transfer withdraw USD? on: March 30, 2013, 09:56:36 AM
Yes I'm in the US so I should just withdraw with Dwolla?

You'll need to have a verified account at Mt. Gox to use Dwolla as a withdrawal method (if I remember correctly), but yes -- Dwolla is a fantastic and inexpensive withdrawal method.  There is one caveat in that you never know how long the withdrawal will take.  It could be hours, or days (and weeks even, when there is an imbalance).    Worst case scenario your withdrawal request is queued up, you cancel it and figure out some other method.
1448  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE on: March 30, 2013, 09:29:55 AM
Settlement price determination is done by "taking a screenshot".

The 24 hour weighted average price (VWAP) showing on Mt. website is what gets used for settlement. [Edit: The 24 hour VWAP at the "largest exchange" is what gets used for settlement, but that just happens to be Mt. Gox, for now.]

The settlement occurs at the clearing time (20:00 UTC) on the settlement date (e.g., April 14th, 2012 for BUJ3).   That's from the contract, combined with general instructions from the page describing how ICBIT futures work.  

As far as that number being obtained from a "screen shot", every trade at Mt. Gox is logged and is publicly available.  From that data, you can calculate the 24 hour VWAP yourself.  If you have reason to believe the VWAP grabbed at the time of settlement (20:00 UTC) is not accurate please raise that concern publicly as that would be a problem (as many merchants, traders, and others use that metric from Mt. Gox as well, ... though nobody else has raised concern about its accuracy.)

Of course, there needs to be just "one price" used for settlement at ICBIT.  And that price needs to be known at the time of that settlement day's clearing.   If you believe the use of this 24 hour VWAP is problematic, or whatever issue you seem to have with this metric being used, please clearly state your argument.   If I recollect it seems that you are saying you believe the 24 hour metric at 00:00 UTC (four hours after clearing) should be the metric used and not the number that existed at the time of the 20:00 clearing.  Am I understanding correctly where you believe the issue lies?  If not, please clearly describe what exactly is the particular problem you see with using the 24 hour VWAP that exists at the time settlement (& daily clearing) occurs.
1449  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Best advice for someone wanting to get serious about mining alt coins? on: March 30, 2013, 09:10:26 AM
Worth it at all?

That's like asking what the S&P index will be next year.  Nobody knows.

Mining is a form of speculation.  A miner is speculating on the two unknowns -- the future exchange rate and the future difficulty level. The profitability can fluctuate but generally reverts to roughly break-even.  So most miners who see gains are those who mined and saved their proceeds and then after a run-up sell the coins at a nice profit   This really is not much different from speculating on the exchange rate.   In fact, those who simply bought coins instead of buying mining hardware end up with more coins at the end than the miners do -- in most circumstances.   If you are needing to pay electricity from your mining proceeds, then you won't have many coins left and if there is a rise in the exchange rate you will not really benefit much from that.

Now if the exchange rate drops, miners generally do better than coin speculators on a "per dollar invested" comparison.    But then again, that just means miners lost a lower amount (in USD terms) than did speculators of the coin.

But seriously, there are like tens of thousands of GPUs getting taken offline from Bitcoin mining.  Many of those will switch to Litecoin -- and since many of those rigs have already been fully paid off thanks to Bitcoin mining revenues, the operators would be happy to mine at a break-even level, or at a loss even with the anticipation that the exchange rate for the alt will rise in value.   In other words, if you are investing in hardware you are having to compete with others who essentially see their hardware investment cost as being "zero".     So you probably don't want to do anything unless you have some other purpose for the hardware you would be acquiring.
1450  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: deleted on: March 30, 2013, 08:58:43 AM

I didn't see the thread before it got changed to "deleted".  

The text of the Tweet was:

"Best way to withdraw cash (without raising tax issues)  #bitcoin"

Now it is implied that the person is wanting to sell bitcoins, presumably after recognizing gains on those versus the acquisition cost but then cashing them out without reporting the gains as taxable income.

Without any context though, such as what jurisdiction that party resides, the answer will vary.  There may not even be any tax consequences, depending on jurisdiction.  It is unfortunate that this post was "deleted".
1451  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Hey guys! Quick question. on: March 30, 2013, 08:53:46 AM
What website can i buy bitcoins with my creditcard, and get them directly in my wallet?

When BTCQuick has stock, you might get a few:

With VirWoX, it may not be instant withdrawal, but perhaps a day.
 -  <-- Buy Second Life Lindens (SLLs) with credit card, convert to BTCs and withdraw.

There isn't much else for credit card.   BTC-E had LiqPay for a while, but that is currently suspended.

1452  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Nexus 10 OpenCL? on: March 30, 2013, 08:49:15 AM
But anyway I read that there is OpenCL support for Nexus 10.. Does anyone have any idea if it's possible to mine on a Nexus 10?

Using Android, or rooted and booted to Linux.

There was an Android mining app at one time.  

Either way, with ASICs shipping don't waste your time even looking at doing that for Bitcoin, and for Litecoin an AndLTC miner exists but you'll barely see Litecoin revenue from that either.
1453  Economy / Speculation / Re: Unexpected interest in Bitcoin from random people. on: March 30, 2013, 08:44:45 AM
Share your anecdotal evidence please.

Yesterday I spoke with a sales rep from mobile app service that provides online ordering for restaurants.  I noted how they only accepted VISA/MasterCard/AMEX, etc. and I said that I preferred to pay in Bitcoin and asked if that was possible.  

Not only was the response not "Um ..., what's that?", the response instead was, without hesitation, that to be lean on their end (being a startup) they had to choose just one payment provider and Stripe was that one they chose.   So they definitely knew what Bitcoin was and apparently had considered it.  Bitcoin as a Brand is growing thanks to the free press it gets and because of the cheerleading from everyone holding bitcoins.
1454  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Why Polish bank accounts? on: March 30, 2013, 08:31:24 AM
Why not some other EU country?

It isn't just the same country, it is the same bank, right?
1455  Economy / Gambling / Re: Kingcoin: A delightfully simple spin-the-wheel game (that's provably fair) on: March 30, 2013, 08:27:38 AM
November 28, 2012
A minimum bet amount of 0.01 is now required (either BTC or points).

Can that be lowered, now considering the increased BTC/USD exchange

Additionally, could the default be lowered as well, from 0.1 BTC?   At nearly $10 per spin, that's a little high.
1456  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Open-source trade server software on: March 30, 2013, 05:47:17 AM
Is there any open-source implementation of a web-based trading platform? You know... something like MtGox, but open-source.

Every exchange seems to have rolled their own. had at one time shared their code.  Intersango too, before they rewrote the exchange that they use today. 

Others, such as, wrote their own but never reached a sufficient volume to justify the effort.  Developing an exchange that is secure is an expensive endeavor.
1457  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: question on: March 30, 2013, 04:03:37 AM
Or does anyone have any suggestions for a UKer to buy Bitcoins?

The factors that matter in order to give you the best answer include:

 - Where are you located (country)?  [You mentioned UK, GBP currency]
 - How much are you looking to buy?
 - What payment methods do you have available?
 - How soon do you need access to the proceeds?
 - Is privacy important?

With TransferWise, for instance, the TransferWise account can be funded with GBPs and then convert to EUR.  BITSTAMP is an exchange that accepts EUR SEPA transfers.  You can even fund a TransferWise account with a bank debit card,   There is further discussion of it here:

In the UK there is also

You can send cash (GBP) in the mail to in Denmark.

Bitcoin Fridge is temporarily not selling but said would resume in April.

A fairly comprehensive list of options is compiled here:
1458  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Is there any fee to send your funds in your Dwolla account to Mt.Gox account? on: March 29, 2013, 11:10:15 PM
If so, how much is the fee.

Amounts between $1 and up to $10, free.  $10.01 and up, $0.25 per transaction.
1459  Economy / Speculation / Re: Here's how you can anticipate a coming crash/correction on: March 29, 2013, 10:28:08 PM
But I don't know how anyone could know that short of working there.

Periodically a number will be shared on the #mtgox irc channel.

7,700 was the number given within the past 24 hours.
1460  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What is the easiest, safest way for me to see my private keys in satoshi client? on: March 29, 2013, 10:25:57 PM
I know there is a dumpprivkey command in the console, but is there a way to show all the private keys for all addresses in the wallet?

pywallet has a dumpwallet command.

From the console, listaddressgroupings.
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